DK Metcalf

[River Dog]

In our past 3 games, all of them losses, we’ve targeted DK Metcalf 30 times for 14 completions, 207 yards, 0 TD’s, and two lost fumbles. Take out the Detroit game and in the past two games, it’s 18 targets, 7 completions, 103 yards, 0 TD’s and 2 lost fumbles. Last Thursday was the worst, with 11 targets for just 3 completions, 48 yards, 0 TD’s, and a lost fumble. The point being that DK’s production has been getting steadily worse. Metcalf is our most targeted receiver. Going into Week 6, he was the 9th most targeted receivers in the league, and with 11 targets vs. the Niners, he's likely to move up a couple slots.

That begs the question: Are we targeting Metcalf too often? Are teams onto him? Is Geno forcing the ball into him? Or is it mostly on Metcalf, that he's gone into hibernation?

It's likely all of the above, but I'd like to hear your responses.

[NorthHawk]

I’d like to see more targets for JSN and share the wealth so to speak. It was good to see some action for Bobo, but overall the last few games they have passed more than I would like. Maybe the OL has something to do with that.

[River Dog]

I’d like to see more targets for JSN and share the wealth so to speak. It was good to see some action for Bobo, but overall the last few games they have passed more than I would like. Maybe the OL has something to do with that.

Actually, JSN has just five fewer targets this season than Metcalf has and had 9 in the Niners game:

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/targets/wr.php

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401671819

There's a reason why we haven't been running more often. Our run game sucks. Last Thursday, we ran the ball 20 times for 52 yards, an average of 2.6 yard per play.

I'd like to see Bobo get a few more snaps, too, and not because of his pass catching ability. He's our best blocking WR, and as mentioned above, our running game sucks.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not sure. Part of me feels like DK isn't happy here. He would prefer to go to a team with a better QB that can take advantage of his skills and athletic ability. Not many high end players like being on rebuilding teams with coaching unknowns during their prime years. I think we could shop him while we have no pressure to trade him to gain some additional draft capital for the rebuild. It's nice having a WR like DK, but right now we need quality LBs and guards and a center. I think we need draft capital more than we need a high end WR like DK. Given the way this rebuild seems to be going, it's going to take a while and a lot more draft capital to get this team turned around on defense.

[River Dog]

I'm not sure. Part of me feels like DK isn't happy here. He would prefer to go to a team with a better QB that can take advantage of his skills and athletic ability. Not many high end players like being on rebuilding teams with coaching unknowns during their prime years. I think we could shop him while we have no pressure to trade him to gain some additional draft capital for the rebuild. It's nice having a WR like DK, but right now we need quality LBs and guards and a center. I think we need draft capital more than we need a high end WR like DK. Given the way this rebuild seems to be going, it's going to take a while and a lot more draft capital to get this team turned around on defense.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, but it's not what I was getting at. Metcalf isn't going anywhere, at least not this season. So, given that he's on our team and in the starting lineup, are we using him properly? Over the past three games, all of them losses, well over half of the passes we've thrown in his direction have been either incomplete or intercepted. He hasn't scored a touchdown during that streak, and he's given up a fumble twice, both leading directly to our opponents scoring.

The trend is undeniable. Is this Geno forcing the ball? Is Grubbs not designing and/or calling the right plays? Has Metcalf checked out?

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, but it's not what I was getting at. Metcalf isn't going anywhere, at least not this season. So, given that he's on our team and in the starting lineup, are we using him properly? Over the past three games, all of them losses, well over half of the passes we've thrown in his direction have been either incomplete or intercepted. He hasn't scored a touchdown during that streak, and he's given up a fumble twice, both leading directly to our opponents scoring.

The trend is undeniable. Is this Geno forcing the ball? Is Grubbs not designing and/or calling the right plays? Has Metcalf checked out?

That is difficult to know without knowing the play design or what Geno's progressions are. I'm not sure how we determine that. Entire offense isn't great right now. Hard to say.

[NorthHawk]

I think overall there is too much emphasis on DK. Teams are preparing for him more than just go routes now but at times he seems to be Genos 1st and only read. Like ASF, I don't know what the plays are supposed to be, but it just seems that Geno is sometimes staring him down.

[River Dog]

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, but it's not what I was getting at. Metcalf isn't going anywhere, at least not this season. So, given that he's on our team and in the starting lineup, are we using him properly? Over the past three games, all of them losses, well over half of the passes we've thrown in his direction have been either incomplete or intercepted. He hasn't scored a touchdown during that streak, and he's given up a fumble twice, both leading directly to our opponents scoring.

The trend is undeniable. Is this Geno forcing the ball? Is Grubbs not designing and/or calling the right plays? Has Metcalf checked out?

That is difficult to know without knowing the play design or what Geno's progressions are. I'm not sure how we determine that. Entire offense isn't great right now. Hard to say.

It seems to me that Geno is at least partly to blame, that he's forcing balls into some really tight windows. If memory serves, one of the two INT's he's thrown over the past two weeks that there was a defender both long and short of Metcalf, and Geno overthrew and it was picked.

Perhaps he's getting nervous, that he's hearing footsteps due to our leaky OL. But whatever the reason, it seems to me that at least part of it is an execution problem.

[River Dog]

It doesn't sound like Geno and Metcalf are singing from the same page of music. I've clipped some of the more interesting parts:

Geno Smith's comments paint dismal picture of relationship with DK Metcalf. Might there be a fraying?

After the (Niners) game, Smith said he threw the pass (intended for Metcalf but intercepted), and it was a bad play by him. When pressed further about other plays, such as DK Metcalf's inability to land both feet in the end zone on a well-thrown Metcalf pass, Smith said, "Watch the film, man. Watch the film. You'll see it." That implies he thinks Metcalf could have done better.

Head coach Mike Macdonald said the fourth quarter interception intended for Metcalf was a team effort. What he meant was the fact that Metcalf rounded his route instead of cutting it sharp. Smith threw the ball to where he thought Metcalf would be and, likely, should have been. Metcalf has not given specifics on the play.

Smith was seen on the sidelines watching the play on an iPad and getting so frustrated that he threw the device down on the ground. During the game, and at other points during this season, Metcalf appeared to sulk about how the game was going and his own productivity. Smith did not seem to be trying to talk to Metcalf about the problems during the game, but backup quarterback Sam Howell did.

During Amazon's broadcast of the Seahawks loss to the San Francisco 49ers, sideline reporter Kaylee Hartung said Metcalf told the Seattle sideline that he did not need any positive words of encouragement and that he was over any "pep talks." He simply wanted to make plays.

Still, it's not like Smith and the Seahawks offense did not try to get Metcalf involved. He was targeted 11 times. He only caught three of them. On one, he could have easily drawn a pass interference call on the 49ers on a deep pass where Metcalf could have had the defender run into him. Tyler Lockett would have caused the penalty. Metcalf lacks that ability.

Metcalf also had a drop early in the game, too. His game might have looked different, though, had running back Kenneth Walker III not been called for a movement penalty on a play that would have ended with Metcalf catching a long touchdown pass. But this isn't about blaming Metcalf or Smith. This is about both players having contracts up at the end of 2025.

Seattle needs to extend at least one of the players, if not both. If Metcalf and Smith are having long-term communication problems, though, that could imply they are not going to work well together for the next several seasons. Both will be expensive, and Seattle might only be able to afford one of them. Do they go with a gifted receiver without elite hands or a 34-year-old quarterback?

https://12thmanrising.com/geno-smith-co ... ja0h05mp58

[NorthHawk]

I don't know how expensive Geno is going to be. After coming off a Pro Bowl season there were no takers except Seattle and now he's a couple of years older, there may not be much interest again.
As far as the relationship between Geno and DK, they are both sulkers. When things go bad neither one tries to rally the team, rather they both just look like the world is about to end. That trait is common with WRs being their diva nature, but QBs are supposed to lead and that might be an issue with teams thinking about signing Geno if he becomes a UFA.

[River Dog]

Mike Salk made a case for trading Metcalf before the November deadline. If we lose our next two games, ie @Atlanta and vs. Buffalo, and IMO that's more likely than not, I wouldn't be surprised if we pull the trigger. Mac can't be happy with Metcalf's performance over these past few weeks.

Currently, DK is in the second season of a three-year extension worth an average of $24 million per year. That puts him 13th in the league at the position, but each of the 12 players above him have signed deals that last until after DK’s is up. That puts him in line for a payday that could add $6-10 million a year to his current number and make him the highest paid player on the team.

No thanks.

Remember that during that time, the Seahawks will need to make a decision on (and likely sign) Charles Cross to a long-term deal that should add $15-20 million a year to his current contract, plus expected conversations with Boye Mafe, Kenneth Walker Jr., Riq Woolen and others. Yes, they’ll find other ways to clear space (Tyler Lockett, Uchenna Nwosu and others may be looking at restructures or outright releases), but they have plenty of good uses for that money.

Three reasons to consider a DK Metcalf trade

• 1. He plays a position which is worth more to other teams.

DK is a really good player who plays a position that many of the teams in the NFL value quite highly. Macdonald says he is looking to build a team built on physicality, but that team doesn’t have particularly physical players on his offensive line. Why not let a team that is committed to a more finesse style pay for DK’s services and take advantage of their need by acquiring a draft haul that you can turn around and use to bring in the types of players you want?

By all accounts, the Seahawks currently have one of the best groups of skill position players in the league, and it doesn’t seem to be leading to a tremendous offensive output because they don’t have the horses up front. Why would you want to commit more resources to the skill positions?

At their core, receivers play a dependent position. They need the offensive line to block long enough and the quarterback to see them and throw to them in order to contribute on most plays. That would make them third in line (on offense) to get paid on my team.

• 2. He plays a position of plenty.

There are lots of good receivers in the NFL and plenty more on the way in college (I've been saying this for years, that good WR's are a dime a dozen). Every year seems to bring a new batch of them. The game is flooded with fast, athletic receivers that can run crisp routes, have good hands, and can run away from defenders. They aren’t all as big or strong as DK, but they may have other skills and talents equally as valuable.

By contrast, there aren’t a lot of dominant offensive linemen. The world just simply doesn’t produce as many people giant enough to play that position at the top level with the kind of athleticism and nastiness that makes them great. Every year we hear executives and coaches complain that the college game isn’t feeding them enough linemen to capably open up running lanes and protect passers.

I’d rather spend my precious resources on acquiring the scarce talent rather than the plentiful one.

• 3. DK is really good … but not great.

In his sixth year, I think we have a pretty good bead on what kind of a player DK Metcalf is and can be. He is ultra-fast and ultra-strong. He can run away from most any defender in the league. And he has stayed remarkably healthy year after year. He is certainly a top 20 player at his position.

But he is also penalty-prone (both in terms of unsportsmanlike conduct and offensive pass interference), not blessed with top-notch hands, and (like many at his position) emotional, moody and overreactive to not getting the ball as often as he would like. While he has had moments that show he can be a great teammate and leader, those have generally faded during times of adversity, and we’ve seen him physically attack teammates during practice.

Those qualities make for a player that has significant value in the NFL, but not ones that I would want a team to be even more dependent upon moving forward.

So if you aren’t going to re-sign DK to a massive new extension this offseason (which I would not), why not do everything in your power to get as much back as possible? You shouldn’t let top talent simply walk out of your door in the NFL, so why not try to get as much as you can before that scenario becomes even a possibility? Remember, your leverage with other teams diminishes as soon as they sense that you might not be willing to sign a player to a new deal, so the sooner you can trade them, the more they are worth.

The trade deadline is just three weeks away and the Seahawks have some serious business to consider.

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1786944/ ... 4B0u_nGhAw

[NorthHawk]

I think it depends on if the FO considers us to be in a rebuild situation.
A lot of times that's the proper way to go but it does mean a few or more bad years for the franchise.
However, I think we're at a crossroads as to how we go forward. If we trade DK, then it's rebuild time.

How much or who could we get for him at this point and what teams need a WR to get them over the top? I would guess a late first as a starting point for a team in need and maybe another pick in the mid rounds if possible but it depends on which team is interested and how much they have to offer. Teams that come to mind are Atlanta, Baltimore, Cleveland, Denver, Chargers, Patriots, Saints, and maybe Steelers and Commanders.
Of those Atlanta seems aggressive in acquiring game changing players and Baltimore could use a big physical receiver. Chargers and Commanders might consider him as well but with all of these teams I don't know their Cap situations nor draft capital that is currently on hand.

[River Dog]

I think it depends on if the FO considers us to be in a rebuild situation.
A lot of times that's the proper way to go but it does mean a few or more bad years for the franchise.
However, I think we're at a crossroads as to how we go forward. If we trade DK, then it's rebuild time.

How much or who could we get for him at this point and what teams need a WR to get them over the top? I would guess a late first as a starting point for a team in need and maybe another pick in the mid rounds if possible but it depends on which team is interested and how much they have to offer. Teams that come to mind are Atlanta, Baltimore, Cleveland, Denver, Chargers, Patriots, Saints, and maybe Steelers and Commanders.

Of those Atlanta seems aggressive in acquiring game changing players and Baltimore could use a big physical receiver. Chargers and Commanders might consider him as well but with all of these teams I don't know their Cap situations nor draft capital that is currently on hand.

IMO if we trade Metcalf, although it is definitely a sign that we're throwing in the towel on this season, it's not necessarily an indication of a 2-3 year rebuild. We're sitting pretty good in the WR department, and as I've always maintained, good wide receivers are a dime a dozen. A top 10 receiver like Metcalf is a luxury and not a necessity for a championship team.

We'll see what the WR market is like in a couple of weeks. If a receiver on a contending team goes down, it could motivate them to look at a player like Metcalf. If the Steelers win their next two games, they could be in the market for a Metcalf-Wilson reunion (Russell might start this week). Jerry Jones has come under fire for not being active enough in the offseason, and he's always a sucker for a shiny object trade. The Vikings have a projected $159M in cap space for 2025 and they're the only undefeated team in the conference, trying to stay ahead of the one loss Lions. Would they want to pair Metcalf with Justin Jefferson?

If it becomes apparent that we aren't going anywhere this season and if we aren't willing to reward Metcalf with a huge extension....and I can't believe that Macdonald is happy with his recent performance...then it makes sense to trade him now and get something in return for him rather than watch him hold out for an extension that we're unwilling to give.

[curmudgeon]

Do it. Now. He’s at peak value……

[NorthHawk]

If that's the plan, then you're right about it being the right time.

[River Dog]

If that's the plan, then you're right about it being the right time.

Which is what Salk was saying. We know damn good and well that if we don't resign him this spring to a huge, possibly market setting contract, that Metcalf is not going to take it well and will hold out when camp begins next summer. So, unless we plan on keeping him on his terms, it only makes sense to trade him now, especially if we don't view ourselves as a contender this season.

Keep an eye on the Chiefs-Niners game this weekend. If the Niners win and we lose, then it's a pretty good indication that this isn't going to be our year and that we might start shopping Metcalf. If the opposite happens, then this discussion is likely a moot point as we'll take back the lead in our division and would be foolish to trade away a Pro Bowl player.

[NorthHawk]

I never expected this to be our year as the transition from Pete to MacDonald can't be done overnight. It usually takes a couple of years.
What I don't know or haven't heard is what MacDonald wants this team to be. When Pete first got here he said he wanted to play a tough run game with chunk plays and on Defense he wanted to defend every blade of grass.
Has MacDonald described his philosophy? I missed it if he did and if it isn't stated, maybe there are competing visions in the FO. I doubt that's the case, but we look at the team and we see a lot of finesse players with a sprinkling of tough guys.
For instance along the OL we have Cross who isn't a physical LT and we have Bradford who is along with Lucas if he ever returns and the LG isn't a mauler, either.
On Defense we have some big tough players on the DL but fast and light LBs.
Maybe that's the plan on Defense, to have the DL stop the run and the LBs cover receivers and fly to the ball but not be physical run stoppers in the traditional sense.

The 2nd thing is what type of culture are the Coaches and Schneider trying to build? If they know, do they have the players that can achieve that goal?
That's why I think it's going to take a couple of years to get it right. The right people who can both play in the systems they want (or be able to easily adapt the system to fit a good talent) along with the character they want to make up the culture.