Elway, pass or fail as front office royalty pol

[HumanCockroach]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/20 ... hared=true

Stumbled on this article, and thought it would be nice to see what the 12's thought of the decisions and success of Elway. he was voted GM of the year based pretty much solely on his ability to recruit Manning to Denver, but I have often said to freinds I'm not overly impressed with what his has done as a whole in that role. ( as well as making it clear at the time I had zero interest in the Hawks signing Manning).

[RiverDog]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2080145-why-john-elway-deserves-failing-grade-as-denver-broncos-executive?is_shared=true

Stumbled on this article, and thought it would be nice to see what the 12's thought of the decisions and success of Elway. he was voted GM of the year based pretty much solely on his ability to recruit Manning to Denver, but I have often said to freinds I'm not overly impressed with what his has done as a whole in that role. ( as well as making it clear at the time I had zero interest in the Hawks signing Manning).

I gave him a 'B'. Although it looks easy now, it wasn't all that popular of a decision for him to toss aside Tim Tebow considering the fanatical following he had, and he has gotten results, and I'm a results orientated guy.

[HumanCockroach]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2080145-why-john-elway-deserves-failing-grade-as-denver-broncos-executive?is_shared=true

Stumbled on this article, and thought it would be nice to see what the 12's thought of the decisions and success of Elway. he was voted GM of the year based pretty much solely on his ability to recruit Manning to Denver, but I have often said to freinds I'm not overly impressed with what his has done as a whole in that role. ( as well as making it clear at the time I had zero interest in the Hawks signing Manning).

I gave him a 'B'. Although it looks easy now, it wasn't all that popular of a decision for him to toss aside Tim Tebow considering the fanatical following he had, and he has gotten results, and I'm a results orientated guy.

Seems fair to me, though I went with a C because beyond Manning ( at least coming into this season, as I'm not going to give him credit for signings prior to them working out.) He hasn't accomplished much in the way of improving that team. I guess I'm leaning more towards the articles basis, that anything short of winning a SB is not a "success" and as of yet, he hasn't done so. Pretty short window there in Denver, and that is a product of how that team has been assembled. They have gambled their future in a quest for a Lombardi now, and they haven't gotten it.

I don't think he has done horribly or anything, but I just don't see him building a team with an eye on any sort of sustained success moving forward

[RiverDog]

Yea, Elway didn't have to rebuild from scratch like Pete and John did. The Broncos were never really that bad, and were almost always in playoff contention. All they needed was one or two pieces and they were on their way.

But you said it when it comes to short term success, and I can't say as I blame any coach or GM that has a team that's very close to winning a SB. As difficult as it is to consistently win in the NFL in this day and age of parity, you have to go for the jugular when the opportunity presents itself. That's why when we made the Harvin trade, I wouldn't have minded it had it not been for the player. I commended Pete on having the balls to pull the trigger as in the 2012 season he was close to a Lombardi, and you don't get there by being timid. Of course, I was wrong there, too, as it turned out that we didn't need Harvin to get our Lombardi.

[briwas101]

I gave him an A, if only because it's hard to give a B to a guy who clearly had a hand in getting them to the Super Bowl.

Can he build a team as successfully as Schneider has? Probably not, but losing to the Hawks in the Super Bowl is about the best an nfl team can hope for right now.

[Zorn76]

B.

They were supposed to win it all last year, and they got their Donkey azzes handed to them. Getting blown out by the Seahawks had Elway reliving his own SB nightmares, and he's going for broke this season.

Problem is, they still won't have the defense to do it. Seattle is better, younger, and faster than just about all the teams in the NFL right now. A 600+ point offense is great 'n' all, but it's the other side of the ball that wins Championships.

We saw it in last season, and we're gonna see it again, beginning this September.

[kalibane]

Here is the question. If he wasn't "John Elway" meaning if he was the same guy in all respects except for the fact that he was a HOF QB, would Peyton Manning have ever signed with Denver? Outdoor, cold weather? I kind of doubt it.

The core of the team was pretty much intact when Elway took over. I need to see what his drafts produce going forward. The first draft that he really oversaw the best player he produced was Danny Trevathian in the 6th round. The jury is pretty much out on all his other picks.

All Elway has shown to this point is that he's a good recruiter. He successfully recruited Manning and that in turn helped them to recruit Aqib Talib and Demarcus Ware. These are all vets in their 30s chasing a title. This is all well and good but it's not a sustainable model for running a franchise. He's putting all his eggs in one basket right now which could pay off with a superbowl or could haunt the franchise for years (or both). I can't give him a fair evaluation until I see how he handles the post Manning era, but my gut tells me he's being overrated in the same way Ryan Grigson has been overrated for having the good fortune of sucking the year Andrew Luck was available. It's tough to give credit to a GM for making a move that almost every other GM in the league would have made given the opportunity to make it.

I have to give him an incomplete. And he's definitely not GM of the year in my opinion. I think John Scheider has been robbed both of the last two years of that honor and the only two guys I think have an argument to get it over Schneider are Baalke and Newsome.

[NorthHawk]

With the signing of Manning, he showed he wants to win now.
All Front Offices do of course, but it seems to me Elway is willing to sacrifice long term success for a championship today.
I can understand that. A large part of the team was in place and it was a matter of getting over the last hump.
They almost did it last year, and with a better Defense they might have a chance this year depending on health and availability to key players.

I think I would give him a B for doing what he has so far considering a short term plan.

[Futureite]

I am going to give him a B, maybe B+. 3 straight Div titles, a SB, and he has brought in Von Miller, Peyton, and didn't he hire John Fox? He's locked down the 3 most important pieces of the wnning puzzle. Sustained success is very difficult to find in the NFL, and he is doing it yr in and yr out.

[kalibane]

I wouldn't say he gets credit for the Von Miller Draft. Elway was part of the Bronco's organization but the former GM was still there doing the majority of the day to day personel decisions while Elway learned on the job. Elway flat out told the owner he didn't have enough experience to make those kinds of decisions. 2012 was the first draft Elway ran and the year he took control of the personel decisions.

[Futureite]

I wouldn't say he gets credit for the Von Miller Draft. Elway was part of the Bronco's organization but the former GM was still there doing the majority of the day to day personel decisions while Elway learned on the job. Elway flat out told the owner he didn't have enough experience to make those kinds of decisions. 2012 was the first draft Elway ran and the year he took control of the personel decisions.

You could be right. I don't know the ins and outs of that. I thought picking up Shawn Phillips was an excellent move after the strange way they lost Dumerville too. So far he has made some good moves and they keep winning, so I have to give him at least a B.

[HumanCockroach]

LOL Future , couple years ago you were emphatic that the Seahawks hadn't had "more success" than the Niner in the last ten years, because they hadn't won "the only thing that matters" and now three division titles and a SB appearance garners a b or b+. It's funny how the change in division alters your perception.

[Hawktawk]

I give him a D. Manning wasn't brought in to win the division and make the playoffs. Tebow did that. Manning was brought in to win it all. And in the 2 years of playoffs Manning has been the worst player on the field when all the marbles were on the line. Fox as a head coach is unspectacular, making a raft of mistakes in preparing for the SB. IMO Elway , Fox and Manning have gone as far as they are going to go.

[briwas101]

Here is the question. If he wasn't "John Elway" meaning if he was the same guy in all respects except for the fact that he was a HOF QB, would Peyton Manning have ever signed with Denver? Outdoor, cold weather? I kind of doubt it.

The core of the team was pretty much intact when Elway took over. I need to see what his drafts produce going forward. The first draft that he really oversaw the best player he produced was Danny Trevathian in the 6th round. The jury is pretty much out on all his other picks.

All Elway has shown to this point is that he's a good recruiter. He successfully recruited Manning and that in turn helped them to recruit Aqib Talib and Demarcus Ware. These are all vets in their 30s chasing a title. This is all well and good but it's not a sustainable model for running a franchise. He's putting all his eggs in one basket right now which could pay off with a superbowl or could haunt the franchise for years (or both). I can't give him a fair evaluation until I see how he handles the post Manning era, but my gut tells me he's being overrated in the same way Ryan Grigson has been overrated for having the good fortune of sucking the year Andrew Luck was available. It's tough to give credit to a GM for making a move that almost every other GM in the league would have made given the opportunity to make it.

I have to give him an incomplete. And he's definitely not GM of the year in my opinion. I think John Scheider has been robbed both of the last two years of that honor and the only two guys I think have an argument to get it over Schneider are Baalke and Newsome.

Schneider got robbed a year ago, but he didn't get robbed this year. Im sorry to have to bring it up again but the reason he didnt win this year is because of Percy Harvin.

Schneider made the biggest move of the offseason and it turned out to be the worst move in the entire NFL.

No matter how good Schneider has been over the last few years, you CANNOT give the award to the GM that made the worst move in the NFL. If he didn't make that mistake then he would have won the award.

As long as Schneider doesn't make another Percy-style disaster trade then he should win it next year.

[Futureite]

LOL Future , couple years ago you were emphatic that the Seahawks hadn't had "more success" than the Niner in the last ten years, because they hadn't won "the only thing that matters" and now three division titles and a SB appearance garners a b or b+. It's funny how the change in division alters your perception.

I never argued they hadn't had "more" success. I said the success that you had didn't exactly give you bragging rights, and in fact many people agreed with me on this very board. Now your SB win does give you plenty of room to talk. At the time that we were discussing this though Seattle was fresh off 4 straight losing seasons, had finished 2nd in the div and lost in the duv rd. So no, they hadn't done much more than we had up to that point. Both teams had been to a SB and lost, but yours had a couple more div titles with 9-7/7-9 records. Thanks for bringing up that asenine argument again, which has no relevance to this topic.

In terms of whether a GM/FO guy (whatever) has been successful I have to look at the success of the team before and after him. I think Elway has done some good things bringing in Peyton, Fox and personnel moves like Welker, Knighton and Phillips. Whether it's because of his name recognition or some other factor, they are having success yr in and yr out and signing good players.

But maybe I should give him a D since they didn't win the SB? Lol comical!

[HumanCockroach]

LOL Future , couple years ago you were emphatic that the Seahawks hadn't had "more success" than the Niner in the last ten years, because they hadn't won "the only thing that matters" and now three division titles and a SB appearance garners a b or b+. It's funny how the change in division alters your perception.

I never argued they hadn't had "more" success. I said the success that you had didn't exactly give you bragging rights, and in fact many people agreed with me on this very board. Now your SB win does give you plenty of room to talk. At the time that we were discussing this though Seattle was fresh off 4 straight losing seasons, had finished 2nd in the div and lost in the duv rd. So no, they hadn't done much more than we had up to that point. Both teams had been to a SB and lost, but yours had a couple more div titles with 9-7/7-9 records. Thanks for bringing up that asenine argument again, which has no relevance to this topic.

In terms of whether a GM/FO guy (whatever) has been successful I have to look at the success of the team before and after him. I think Elway has done some good things bringing in Peyton, Fox and personnel moves like Welker, Knighton and Phillips. Whether it's because of his name recognition or some other factor, they are having success yr in and yr out and signing good players.

But maybe I should give him a D since they didn't win the SB? Lol comical!

And NONE of that is accurate. Twist it how you see fit Future.

[Futureite]

LOL Future , couple years ago you were emphatic that the Seahawks hadn't had "more success" than the Niner in the last ten years, because they hadn't won "the only thing that matters" and now three division titles and a SB appearance garners a b or b+. It's funny how the change in division alters your perception.

I never argued they hadn't had "more" success. I said the success that you had didn't exactly give you bragging rights, and in fact many people agreed with me on this very board. Now your SB win does give you plenty of room to talk. At the time that we were discussing this though Seattle was fresh off 4 straight losing seasons, had finished 2nd in the div and lost in the duv rd. So no, they hadn't done much more than we had up to that point. Both teams had been to a SB and lost, but yours had a couple more div titles with 9-7/7-9 records. Thanks for bringing up that asenine argument again, which has no relevance to this topic.

In terms of whether a GM/FO guy (whatever) has been successful I have to look at the success of the team before and after him. I think Elway has done some good things bringing in Peyton, Fox and personnel moves like Welker, Knighton and Phillips. Whether it's because of his name recognition or some other factor, they are having success yr in and yr out and signing good players.

But maybe I should give him a D since they didn't win the SB? Lol comical!

And NONE of that is accurate. Twist it how you see fit Future.

Cmon man, lighten up! You won the SB you are suppose to be happy . I am going to drink.my ice coffee and think about my new man crush draft picks, and we won nothing last yr! Try it on your next break.