Kaepernick signs

[Anthony]

Something tells me there is some serious concerns no matter what Harbaugh or Baalke or Roman say, if that is how the contract was structured. Plenty of built in protection, and the ability to bail if he isn't who some say he is. Smart, smart contract and move by that FO.

I agree there must be concerns, I can also tell you Rw will not sign a contract like that, now should he.

[c_hawkbob]

I disagree, not only should he, but I think he would in a heartbeat. Russ is all upside, as long as the de-escalators are team and efficiency marks he'd be in no danger of not hitting them.

[Anthony]

C

This is what would worry me about him if I were a niner fan. "he is the hardest worker," "He watches tons of film," "He's the best football mind Greg Roman has ever seen and can tell him the ins and outs of coverage..." "he has all the physical tools..." If all of those things are true then why are his passing stats so pedestrian? Here's another way to look at it: either all of those things are true, and he just doesn't have 'it' as evidenced by his mediocre passing stats or some of those things we keep hearing aren't true. IF he were as smart as you keep telling us and works as hard as you keep telling us and is athletic as we all can see and has the football IQ that Roman says he has then why in the heck hasn't he put it all together yet? He is OBVIOUSLY missing something, so what is it? He has been in this offense for 3 seasons has had decent weapons his whole career (i know craps was hurt last year but that happens to every team, see RW).

Have to agree with this. My analogy is two junior engineers we hired; one 18 months ago, the other 12 months ago. Same education level, close enough in start time. They both work hard and work a lot of hours. The guy who just made 12 months is miles ahead of the other. It is all about the quality of time spent. As arduous and time consuming Kaep's study efforts have been, the results haven't showed up on the field. Doesn't mean they won't, but it has yet to be seen. This year will be even more telling of what kind of quarterback he his; all the talent he could ask for around him entering his 4th season. If he can't put it together this year, I don't know when he will.

His stats were about as pedestrian as Russell Wilson's last yr. So if I have that worry so should you! They were separated by about 150 yds and 4 TDs I believe. Tom Terrific and Andrew Luck also struggled bigtime when they lost their receivers or4 had no rapore with their replacements. Look at Luck's stats for a stretch of games after Wayne went doqn. But the great thing is, I don't need to make excuses for Kap because he is young and has already proven he can play (93.8 career rating, 400 yd game, 2 4th qtr playoff comebacks, etc).

Of course I goated a little bit with my comments. I know how much you guys hate Kap and love to believe RW does things in the offseason Kap or other QBs don't. I was playing up to that a lil' .[/quote]

Ahh future do you rad all the stats or only the ones you want. The difference between Rw and Kap we bigger than you say

Kap 3197 yards, complt% 58%, YPA 7.7, TDs 21, Ints 8, qb rating 91.6
RW 3357 yards, complt% 63%, ypa 8.25, tds 26, ints 9, qb rating 101.2

So let me help you yes yards were only 160 difference, but complet % was a huge difference of 5 points, that is huge, YPA nearly .55 yards that is huge, 5 more tds that is huge, qb rating nearly 10 points higher that is huge.


The biggest difference is
RW went up in yards, YPA, QB rating, and lowered his int and maintained his TDs, slightly lower comp% but still way above 60 the Mendoza line
Kap his Complt% went down by over 4 points to under 60 , his YPA went down, his QB rating went down, as to yards and tds well he did not play the whole season last year so they are harder to compare, obviously they went up but that was because he played more games.

So sorry huge difference one trending up the other down,

[Anthony]

I know I would be pretty damn happy if the Hawks could sign Wilson to a similar deal ( though he deserves better than Kap in that regard), but it is simply a brilliant way to give the player what they want ( the huge contract) while making sure that it doesn't drag the franchise into the wasteland of teams handcuffed by these mega deals if he doesn't improve.

Wont happen, RW has done more for the Hawks than Kap for SF

[Anthony]

I disagree, not only should he, but I think he would in a heartbeat. Russ is all upside, as long as the de-escalators are team and efficiency marks he'd be in no danger of not hitting them.

Well we can agree to disagree, there is no way he should or they will. There is no question about Rw there is about Kap.

[mykc14]

C

This is what would worry me about him if I were a niner fan. "he is the hardest worker," "He watches tons of film," "He's the best football mind Greg Roman has ever seen and can tell him the ins and outs of coverage..." "he has all the physical tools..." If all of those things are true then why are his passing stats so pedestrian? Here's another way to look at it: either all of those things are true, and he just doesn't have 'it' as evidenced by his mediocre passing stats or some of those things we keep hearing aren't true. IF he were as smart as you keep telling us and works as hard as you keep telling us and is athletic as we all can see and has the football IQ that Roman says he has then why in the heck hasn't he put it all together yet? He is OBVIOUSLY missing something, so what is it? He has been in this offense for 3 seasons has had decent weapons his whole career (i know craps was hurt last year but that happens to every team, see RW).

Have to agree with this. My analogy is two junior engineers we hired; one 18 months ago, the other 12 months ago. Same education level, close enough in start time. They both work hard and work a lot of hours. The guy who just made 12 months is miles ahead of the other. It is all about the quality of time spent. As arduous and time consuming Kaep's study efforts have been, the results haven't showed up on the field. Doesn't mean they won't, but it has yet to be seen. This year will be even more telling of what kind of quarterback he his; all the talent he could ask for around him entering his 4th season. If he can't put it together this year, I don't know when he will.

His stats were about as pedestrian as Russell Wilson's last yr. So if I have that worry so should you! They were separated by about 150 yds and 4 TDs I believe. Tom Terrific and Andrew Luck also struggled bigtime when they lost their receivers or4 had no rapore with their replacements. Look at Luck's stats for a stretch of games after Wayne went doqn. But the great thing is, I don't need to make excuses for Kap because he is young and has already proven he can play (93.8 career rating, 400 yd game, 2 4th qtr playoff comebacks, etc).

Of course I goated a little bit with my comments. I know how much you guys hate Kap and love to believe RW does things in the offseason Kap or other QBs don't. I was playing up to that a lil' .[/quote]


ahhh... classic future, looking at 2 stats (yards and TD's) and trying to paint a complete picture. I'll do the same thing with a more troubling stat from a niner perspective: 4th quarter stats: qb rating Kaep- 61 RW- 93. Completion % Kaep-52 RW-62 Game winning drives Kaep- 6 RW-10 Career winning % Kaep .727 RW- 757. This coincidentally is the area where Kaep's biggest issues show themselves, in the clutch.

[RiverDog]

ahhh... classic future, looking at 2 stats (yards and TD's) and trying to paint a complete picture. I'll do the same thing with a more troubling stat from a niner perspective: 4th quarter stats: qb rating Kaep- 61 RW- 93. Completion % Kaep-52 RW-62 Game winning drives Kaep- 6 RW-10 Career winning % Kaep .727 RW- 757. This coincidentally is the area where Kaep's biggest issues show themselves, in the clutch.

He does have the tendency to cherry pick numbers that fit his argument, doesn't he?

I was going to say that Kaepernick is beginning to remind me somewhat of Tony Romo, except that Romo always puts up top 5 or top 10 totals. Although I don't think Kaep is in Romo's league when it comes to choking big games, he does have somewhat of a monkey to get off his back with this issue with his play in the clutch.

[kalibane]

I like tweaking Future as much as the next guy but man I really think this "Kaep is a choke artist" line of thought is getting completely overblown. I'm not saying he's Joe Montana or anything even putting him in the same sentence as Romo is hyperbole.

He's not immune to making a poor play late in a game but I don't think he's prone to them either. He's just a work in progress. Most of his mistakes either come from being a little too confident in his arm (the Sherman Tip), or the fact that he's still learning his progressions so if you force him off his first couple of reads and don't give him a lane to escape the pocket he can be rattled. But he also has a very short memory. Things don't typically snowball for him. He'll make the mistake but he's perfectly capable of coming back on the next drive and rolling right down the field.

True choke artists like Romo have full mastery of the game but still make a soul crushing unforced error in crunch time.

[mykc14]

I like tweaking Future as much as the next guy but man I really think this "Kaep is a choke artist" line of thought is getting completely overblown. I'm not saying he's Joe Montana or anything even putting him in the same sentence as Romo is hyperbole.

He's not immune to making a poor play late in a game but I don't think he's prone to them either. He's just a work in progress. Most of his mistakes either come from being a little too confident in his arm (the Sherman Tip), or the fact that he's still learning his progressions so if you force him off his first couple of reads and don't give him a lane to escape the pocket he can be rattled. But he also has a very short memory. Things don't typically snowball for him. He'll make the mistake but he's perfectly capable of coming back on the next drive and rolling right down the field.

True choke artists like Romo have full mastery of the game but still make a soul crushing unforced error in crunch time.

I am not really saying that he is a choke artist, but what I am saying is that his deficiencies show themselves in the 4th quarter i.e. poor decision making, lower completion %, and trouble after 1st read. I don't even really think it is a 'choke' issue I think he has issues with those things the whole game they are just magnified when he has to make the play. I agree he is still young and he still can learn to not do some of those things, but the point is if he's "a work out warrior" "always looking at film" and "the best football mind Greg Roman has ever seen" then he shouldn't be making those mistakes still. According to these types of statements he does have "full mastery of the game." His play throughout the post-season was littered with bad throws/poor decisions that weren't capitalized on by the D. There is no doubt that he can move the ball down the field but he hasn't shown the ability to do it consistently, especially in the 4th quarter. He is a special talent and I love this contract from a niner perspective but at the same time I'm not losing sleep over him as a Hawk fan at this point. He could eventually 'get it' I believe Holmy said it takes a qb about 50 starts before he can make a judgment on what type of qb they are going to be, so he has every chance to improve these aspects of his game.

[kalibane]

Not necessarily, you have to take into consideration what system he came from in college. He had a steeper learning curve than Russell Wilson because of the system he came from and he had poorer mechanics.

Take Aaron Rodgers. People don't say anything about it because it's not widely publicized but when Rodgers first got to Green Bay he was terrible in training camp. They had to completely break him down and rebuild his mechanics from the ground up. If he hadn't had the opportunity to sit behind Brett Favre he may have completely flamed out.

Besides those comments are coach speak. What else are they going to say? I could see Kaep going the way of Michael Vick but I could also see him going a way that would really make Seahawk fans miserable.

[HumanCockroach]

Yep Bane, I agree, and often reference "bad Vick" ( Atlanta) and "good Vick" ( resurgence in Philly) to express what Kap can become. Maybe he becomes good Vick, ( and hopefully faster than Vick did if you're a Niner fan) but the possibility he remains bad Vick is a real possibility, that many don't want to acknowledge is a real possibility.

He is a physically gifted QB, but ultimately, it boils down to what he does with it, which regardless of how much money he makes, remains to be seen. I doubt if he continues to have trouble reading defenses, regardless of how much film study, or how much he works out, that Santa Clara will continue forever with him. Within the next two years, I would guess they expect significant improvement, if they don't see it, they will be looking for someone else ( which really just re emphasises how truly intelligent the structure of that contract is).

[Futureite]

ahhh... classic future, looking at 2 stats (yards and TD's) and trying to paint a complete picture. I'll do the same thing with a more troubling stat from a niner perspective: 4th quarter stats: qb rating Kaep- 61 RW- 93. Completion % Kaep-52 RW-62 Game winning drives Kaep- 6 RW-10 Career winning % Kaep .727 RW- 757. This coincidentally is the area where Kaep's biggest issues show themselves, in the clutch.

He does have the tendency to cherry pick numbers that fit his argument, doesn't he?

I was going to say that Kaepernick is beginning to remind me somewhat of Tony Romo, except that Romo always puts up top 5 or top 10 totals. Although I don't think Kaep is in Romo's league when it comes to choking big games, he does have somewhat of a monkey to get off his back with this issue with his play in the clutch.

Cherry pick? Lol cmon man myck first asked about production and when I posted the production he shifted to situational stats. Obviously Kap had a 7 or 8 game stretch of struggles and no one is debating that. In that stretch came a good number of those 4th qtr performances included in that stat (Indy, Panthers, Saints). If anyone is cherry picking it is the petitioner, not the respondent.

Kap finished amongst the best in 4th qtr QBR in 2012. He also finished 2013 with a 4th wtr drive V the Cards to win, next week V the Pack to win. No need for me to defend the guy that in 29 starts owns the record for biggest comeback in NFC Champ game history as capable of playing great in the clutch.

More cherry picking comes when you pick out a couple games and ignore the rest of his body of work. The whole "choke" thing is laughable and we've been through it. Just like the study habit BS. And look how friendly he structured his contract to help our tean. The man "gets" it in every way possible and that's what makes me laugh now about some of these comments! .

[HumanCockroach]

Psst...... Future..... they were referencing the fact that even with 148 more passing attempts, Kap had less production in both categories your attempting to use as an "even" barometer between Kap and Wilson ( Ie Kap was FAR less productive) it has little to do with "choke" though that 4th quarter QBR thing sounds almost to the letter what a Romo apologist consistently uses to "defend" him ( actual TOP 4th quarter QBR the Last 4 years).

[kalibane]

Mmmmm I'm sticking up for Kaep here Future but please don't use that Packer game as evidence of his 4th quarter prowess. He threw what should have been and easy pick 6 right into a defender's hands like Neil O'Donnel to Larry Brown style. He just dodged a bullet in that game but that was one of his worst plays of the year.

[Futureite]

Psst...... Future..... they were referencing the fact that even with 148 more passing attempts, Kap had less production in both categories your attempting to use as an "even" barometer between Kap and Wilson ( Ie Kap was FAR less productive) it has little to do with "choke" though that 4th quarter QBR thing sounds almost to the letter what a Romo apologist consistently uses to "defend" him ( actual TOP 4th quarter QBR the Last 4 years).

Where are you getting this stat from?? I looked it up after you posted and they were separated by only 10 or 11 attempts. You've done this before dude. You are not reading whatever stat line you are looking at correctly. And if I am not mistaken Kap had the fewest attempts amongst 16 start QBs.

[Futureite]

SF 26.4 attempts per game Seattle 25.7. #'s 31 and 32 in attempts. I guess there goes that argument! And why can't we ever discuss Wilson's 4th V Hou, Cards, Indy, SF? The guy threw for just over a buck total in half of those games and ended 3 of them with picks. Even I will still admit he is a clutch QB. Geez folks.

[HumanCockroach]

Psst...... Future..... they were referencing the fact that even with 148 more passing attempts, Kap had less production in both categories your attempting to use as an "even" barometer between Kap and Wilson ( Ie Kap was FAR less productive) it has little to do with "choke" though that 4th quarter QBR thing sounds almost to the letter what a Romo apologist consistently uses to "defend" him ( actual TOP 4th quarter QBR the Last 4 years).

Where are you getting this stat from?? I looked it up after you posted and they were separated by only 10 or 11 attempts. You've done this before dude. You are not reading whatever stat line you are looking at correctly. And if I am not mistaken Kap had the fewest attempts amongst 16 start QBs.

My mistake, I looked both up, one site had last seasons attempts for Wilson posted, the other I went to for Kap had his career stats posted for attempts, I apologise, not interested in "misleading" info, was an honest mistake.

( and just out of curiosity, how do you in one post admit Kap had more attempts, and then in the same post claim he had the least of 16 game starters? Did Wilson miss I game I'm not aware of? For the record Kap had 414 Wilson 407)

[kalibane]

It's the nature of the throws Future. And let me repeat I'm more on your side than against here. But you tried to use that Cardinals game before and it's the perfect example of why your arguments come across as disingenous. 1. Even though it goes down as one in the stat book It wasn't a pick. It was a bad call by the ref that should have been reversed. The ball clearly hit the ground. 2. Even if it hadn't hit the ground the pick wasn't as a result of a poor throw or a poor decision. According to the ref it bounced off the receiver's hands and up into the air.

In the IND game the interception was on 4th and 15... again not the result of a poor throw or bad decision but more akin to throwing a interception on a Hail Mary. He was forced to try to make a play down the field into coverage.

In the SF game Russell Wilson had to gain at least 50 yards in 26 seconds with no timeouts which forces him to really only attack two areas of the field deep right sideline and deep left sideline.

This is an entirely different than 2nd and 10 with 4+ minutes left and throwing a ball right into the hands of a defender.

RW isn't perfect and he's made some bad throws, decisions but you trying to use those examples and act like they are somehow the equivalent of turning the ball over 3 times in the fourth quarter just shows you aren't trying to have an honest discussion.

[Eaglehawk]

:lol: Nice RD.....

In response to what he can improve on: "I think right now improving on progressions, making the right reads and doing it every play . . .that's what can take this offense to the next level " The guy is an idiot that lifts weights all day. He doesn't get it. And even if he did, he doesn't have the football IQ to execute.

Ok, I'll stop. Lol couldn't resist.

I preferred this line " It's scary to think what Kap can do when he adds a higher football IQ to his freakish athleticism."

Notice the part about needing a "higher football IQ" guess it isn't just us that see's it.

That says it all for me. Sorry, stats notwithstanding, this guy is a flash in the pan, he will be traded in 2 years after the Niners implode next season. The Niners should make the playoffs next year barely. (No team/management chemistry). And yes, he reminds me of Romo Light(great beer, not filling), except he has faster feet. Not to mention the threat of injury as he runs out of the pocket into the arms of a 300 pound D-linesman or LB.



RIDDLE ME THIS, when was the last time you saw a low football IQ qb win the SB.
Most of them including Kaep, choked.

[Futureite]

It's the nature of the throws Future. And let me repeat I'm more on your side than against here. But you tried to use that Cardinals game before and it's the perfect example of why your arguments come across as disingenous. 1. Even though it goes down as one in the stat book It wasn't a pick. It was a bad call by the ref that should have been reversed. The ball clearly hit the ground. 2. Even if it hadn't hit the ground the pick wasn't as a result of a poor throw or a poor decision. According to the ref it bounced off the receiver's hands and up into the air.

In the IND game the interception was on 4th and 15... again not the result of a poor throw or bad decision but more akin to throwing a interception on a Hail Mary. He was forced to try to make a play down the field into coverage.

In the SF game Russell Wilson had to gain at least 50 yards in 26 seconds with no timeouts which forces him to really only attack two areas of the field deep right sideline and deep left sideline.

This is an entirely different than 2nd and 10 with 4+ minutes left and throwing a ball right into the hands of a defender.

RW isn't perfect and he's made some bad throws, decisions but you trying to use those examples and act like they are somehow the equivalent of turning the ball over 3 times in the fourth quarter just shows you aren't trying to have an honest discussion.

And you made good points. I was shocked to read you siding with my points (in part).

I am not knocking Wilson for Indy or AZ; but let's be fair. The 4th and 15 in Indy was preceded by 3 incompletions. The throw V AZ as not a good throw, questionable call notwithstanding. He was not on his game that entire game. I am not equating that to the 4th qtr in Seattle, but Wilson struggled in that game too. He had his mistakes too - which I noted - but I am not going to bash the kid. It's hard to ignore what Lynch did V Gore, your crowd, your D. Could Wilson have overcome that as an opposing QB? Either way, he's never been in that position. I'll take the loss and chiding with Kap as long as he learns. I know after 29 starts a good portion of your fanbase believes he's topped out or will even regress, but lol, hell, I don't even know how to respond to that. I guess that is their opinion.

[mykc14]

ahhh... classic future, looking at 2 stats (yards and TD's) and trying to paint a complete picture. I'll do the same thing with a more troubling stat from a niner perspective: 4th quarter stats: qb rating Kaep- 61 RW- 93. Completion % Kaep-52 RW-62 Game winning drives Kaep- 6 RW-10 Career winning % Kaep .727 RW- 757. This coincidentally is the area where Kaep's biggest issues show themselves, in the clutch.

He does have the tendency to cherry pick numbers that fit his argument, doesn't he?

I was going to say that Kaepernick is beginning to remind me somewhat of Tony Romo, except that Romo always puts up top 5 or top 10 totals. Although I don't think Kaep is in Romo's league when it comes to choking big games, he does have somewhat of a monkey to get off his back with this issue with his play in the clutch.

Cherry pick? Lol cmon man myck first asked about production and when I posted the production he shifted to situational stats. Obviously Kap had a 7 or 8 game stretch of struggles and no one is debating that. In that stretch came a good number of those 4th qtr performances included in that stat (Indy, Panthers, Saints). If anyone is cherry picking it is the petitioner, not the respondent.

Kap finished amongst the best in 4th qtr QBR in 2012. He also finished 2013 with a 4th wtr drive V the Cards to win, next week V the Pack to win. No need for me to defend the guy that in 29 starts owns the record for biggest comeback in NFC Champ game history as capable of playing great in the clutch.

More cherry picking comes when you pick out a couple games and ignore the rest of his body of work. The whole "choke" thing is laughable and we've been through it. Just like the study habit BS. And look how friendly he structured his contract to help our tean. The man "gets" it in every way possible and that's what makes me laugh now about some of these comments! .

I am not trying to get in a huge debate here. In no way did I 'cherry pick' stats. You picked 2 stats first, I never referenced any stats. Based on those 2 stats you said they were basically equal. All I was doing was picking the area where I felt Kaep needed to improve, in reference to your post about all the off season stuff, to show where RW was much better than him. When we have a thread dedicated to RW contract extension next year there would be nothing wrong with you using stats to discuss an area where he needed to improve and if he had 4th quarter stats like Kaep had this year you could use those. Like I said IMO his 4th quarter stats are a microcosm of his issues as an NFL qb. I have actually been very high on Kaep and was surprised at his play this year, I expected more. At this point he doesn't really scare me. That may change as there is no doubt he has all the physical tools, but something currently is missing and if his football IQ is as high as everybody makes it seem then he probably shouldn't be making those mistakes.

[Futureite]

Psst...... Future..... they were referencing the fact that even with 148 more passing attempts, Kap had less production in both categories your attempting to use as an "even" barometer between Kap and Wilson ( Ie Kap was FAR less productive) it has little to do with "choke" though that 4th quarter QBR thing sounds almost to the letter what a Romo apologist consistently uses to "defend" him ( actual TOP 4th quarter QBR the Last 4 years).

Where are you getting this stat from?? I looked it up after you posted and they were separated by only 10 or 11 attempts. You've done this before dude. You are not reading whatever stat line you are looking at correctly. And if I am not mistaken Kap had the fewest attempts amongst 16 start QBs.

My mistake, I looked both up, one site had last seasons attempts for Wilson posted, the other I went to for Kap had his career stats posted for attempts, I apologise, not interested in "misleading" info, was an honest mistake.

( and just out of curiosity, how do you in one post admit Kap had more attempts, and then in the same post claim he had the least of 16 game starters? Did Wilson miss I game I'm not aware of? For the record Kap had 414 Wilson 407)

Np big deal HC. I think you posted it a couple times, that's why I finally responded to it. I was going to leave it alone. Somtes. of those stats are hard to see the way they line them up on some sites. I do it too sometimes.

[Anthony]

ahhh... classic future, looking at 2 stats (yards and TD's) and trying to paint a complete picture. I'll do the same thing with a more troubling stat from a niner perspective: 4th quarter stats: qb rating Kaep- 61 RW- 93. Completion % Kaep-52 RW-62 Game winning drives Kaep- 6 RW-10 Career winning % Kaep .727 RW- 757. This coincidentally is the area where Kaep's biggest issues show themselves, in the clutch.

He does have the tendency to cherry pick numbers that fit his argument, doesn't he?

I was going to say that Kaepernick is beginning to remind me somewhat of Tony Romo, except that Romo always puts up top 5 or top 10 totals. Although I don't think Kaep is in Romo's league when it comes to choking big games, he does have somewhat of a monkey to get off his back with this issue with his play in the clutch.

Cherry pick? Lol cmon man myck first asked about production and when I posted the production he shifted to situational stats. Obviously Kap had a 7 or 8 game stretch of struggles and no one is debating that. In that stretch came a good number of those 4th qtr performances included in that stat (Indy, Panthers, Saints). If anyone is cherry picking it is the petitioner, not the respondent.

Kap finished amongst the best in 4th qtr QBR in 2012. He also finished 2013 with a 4th wtr drive V the Cards to win, next week V the Pack to win. No need for me to defend the guy that in 29 starts owns the record for biggest comeback in NFC Champ game history as capable of playing great in the clutch.

More cherry picking comes when you pick out a couple games and ignore the rest of his body of work. The whole "choke" thing is laughable and we've been through it. Just like the study habit BS. And look how friendly he structured his contract to help our tean. The man "gets" it in every way possible and that's what makes me laugh now about some of these comments! .

dude that is great and I am sure he had the best qb rating on the 3rd Thursday of odd months too, but his stats are no were near as good as RWs period. I posted their stats for the year and showed were Kap was not even close enough said.

[Anthony]

Psst...... Future..... they were referencing the fact that even with 148 more passing attempts, Kap had less production in both categories your attempting to use as an "even" barometer between Kap and Wilson ( Ie Kap was FAR less productive) it has little to do with "choke" though that 4th quarter QBR thing sounds almost to the letter what a Romo apologist consistently uses to "defend" him ( actual TOP 4th quarter QBR the Last 4 years).

Where are you getting this stat from?? I looked it up after you posted and they were separated by only 10 or 11 attempts. You've done this before dude. You are not reading whatever stat line you are looking at correctly. And if I am not mistaken Kap had the fewest attempts amongst 16 start QBs.

Dude you compared Kap to Rw saying they were the same one more time

Kap 3197 yards, complt% 58%, YPA 7.7, TDs 21, Ints 8, qb rating 91.6
RW 3357 yards, complt% 63%, ypa 8.25, tds 26, ints 9, qb rating 101.2

So let me help you yes yards were only 160 difference, but complet % was a huge difference of 5 points, that is huge, YPA nearly .55 yards that is huge, 5 more tds that is huge, qb rating nearly 10 points higher that is huge.


The biggest difference is
RW went up in yards, YPA, QB rating, and lowered his int and maintained his TDs, slightly lower comp% but still way above 60 the Mendoza line
Kap his Complt% went down by over 4 points to under 60 , his YPA went down, his QB rating went down, as to yards and tds well he did not play the whole season last year so they are harder to compare, obviously they went up but that was because he played more games.

So sorry huge difference one trending up the other down,

The other thing I find interesting about you future is how you always ignore the posts you know show you are being wrong and you are wrong

[Futureite]

I am not trying to get in a huge debate here. In no way did I 'cherry pick' stats. You picked 2 stats first, I never referenced any stats. Based on those 2 stats you said they were basically equal. All I was doing was picking the area where I felt Kaep needed to improve, in reference to your post about all the off season stuff, to show where RW was much better than him. When we have a thread dedicated to RW contract extension next year there would be nothing wrong with you using stats to discuss an area where he needed to improve and if he had 4th quarter stats like Kaep had this year you could use those. Like I said IMO his 4th quarter stats are a microcosm of his issues as an NFL qb. I have actually been very high on Kaep and was surprised at his play this year, I expected more. At this point he doesn't really scare me. That may change as there is no doubt he has all the physical tools, but something currently is missing and if his football IQ is as high as everybody makes it seem then he probably shouldn't be making those mistakes.[/quote]

Fair enough. I will just disagree then. Yes, he has had a couple of rough games in the 4th. He's also had far more great performances in big games and at the end of big games. People forget he has 29 career starts. It's hard for me to believe anyone could already forget ATL, GB x 2, his road win at NE, etc. Those were big games on big stages and he was lights out under pressure. I'd say his first start in.Monday Night was major pressure, and he killed it. As soon as he had any sort of struggle he's immediately a "choker". It is comical to me, honestly. I have watched all of our great QBs and Steve Young struggled more than this in the 4th for several yrs before he broke through the Cowboys. Peyton Manning didn't seem to fair much better V your D either.

In the end you look at the QB's will to win, his leadership and work ethic - not a game here or there. He'll get it done just like Elway and Young did. But of course I am a homer so that's my opinion! Lol.

And not sure if you compared him to Romo, but whoever did? Cmon. Romo has 1 playoff win in his entire career. I'll stop there.

[Anthony]

SF 26.4 attempts per game Seattle 25.7. #'s 31 and 32 in attempts. I guess there goes that argument! And why can't we ever discuss Wilson's 4th V Hou, Cards, Indy, SF? The guy threw for just over a buck total in half of those games and ended 3 of them with picks. Even I will still admit he is a clutch QB. Geez folks.

now lets look at those games well we won Hou, and we were behind going into the 4th qtr and RW les us back, So I am presuming you mean the 2nd cards game the one were the NFL came out and said they maid a mistake the ball hit the ground and it was not an INT, Indy okay I can give you that one, and then the 2nd SF game the hail mary really, that's all you got, a hail mary, give it a break

Because you were the one who started this stupid thing, when the facts and stats show your wrong, by the way the other reason because Rw has the most 4th qtr and ot comebacks to include the playoffs in the last 2 years in the NFL, Kap does not.

[Anthony]

I am not trying to get in a huge debate here. In no way did I 'cherry pick' stats. You picked 2 stats first, I never referenced any stats. Based on those 2 stats you said they were basically equal. All I was doing was picking the area where I felt Kaep needed to improve, in reference to your post about all the off season stuff, to show where RW was much better than him. When we have a thread dedicated to RW contract extension next year there would be nothing wrong with you using stats to discuss an area where he needed to improve and if he had 4th quarter stats like Kaep had this year you could use those. Like I said IMO his 4th quarter stats are a microcosm of his issues as an NFL qb. I have actually been very high on Kaep and was surprised at his play this year, I expected more. At this point he doesn't really scare me. That may change as there is no doubt he has all the physical tools, but something currently is missing and if his football IQ is as high as everybody makes it seem then he probably shouldn't be making those mistakes.

Fair enough. I will just disagree then. Yes, he has had a couple of rough games in the 4th. He's also had far more great performances in big games and at the end of big games. People forget he has 29 career starts. It's hard for me to believe anyone could already forget ATL, GB x 2, his road win at NE, etc. Those were big games on big stages and he was lights out under pressure. I'd say his first start in.Monday Night was major pressure, and he killed it. As soon as he had any sort of struggle he's immediately a "choker". It is comical to me, honestly. I have watched all of our great QBs and Steve Young struggled more than this in the 4th for several yrs before he broke through the Cowboys. Peyton Manning didn't seem to fair much better V your D either.

In the end you look at the QB's will to win, his leadership and work ethic - not a game here or there. He'll get it done just like Elway and Young did. But of course I am a homer so that's my opinion! Lol.

And not sure if you compared him to Romo, but whoever did? Cmon. Romo has 1 playoff win in his entire career. I'll stop there.[/quote]

IN the end Rw right now has out played Kap period, and that is on and off the field.

[Futureite]

Psst...... Future..... they were referencing the fact that even with 148 more passing attempts, Kap had less production in both categories your attempting to use as an "even" barometer between Kap and Wilson ( Ie Kap was FAR less productive) it has little to do with "choke" though that 4th quarter QBR thing sounds almost to the letter what a Romo apologist consistently uses to "defend" him ( actual TOP 4th quarter QBR the Last 4 years).

Where are you getting this stat from?? I looked it up after you posted and they were separated by only 10 or 11 attempts. You've done this before dude. You are not reading whatever stat line you are looking at correctly. And if I am not mistaken Kap had the fewest attempts amongst 16 start QBs.

Dude you compared Kap to Rw saying they were the same one more time

Kap 3197 yards, complt% 58%, YPA 7.7, TDs 21, Ints 8, qb rating 91.6
RW 3357 yards, complt% 63%, ypa 8.25, tds 26, ints 9, qb rating 101.2

So let me help you yes yards were only 160 difference, but complet % was a huge difference of 5 points, that is huge, YPA nearly .55 yards that is huge, 5 more tds that is huge, qb rating nearly 10 points higher that is huge.


The biggest difference is
RW went up in yards, YPA, QB rating, and lowered his int and maintained his TDs, slightly lower comp% but still way above 60 the Mendoza line
Kap his Complt% went down by over 4 points to under 60 , his YPA went down, his QB rating went down, as to yards and tds well he did not play the whole season last year so they are harder to compare, obviously they went up but that was because he played more games.

So sorry huge difference one trending up the other down,

The other thing I find interesting about you future is how you always ignore the posts you know show you are being wrong and you are wrong

I ignore the ones that are pointless to respond to. I am not even sure what we are arguing. It started with the question of how could the Niners pay for paltry production, or something to that effect. When people use that term or similar words, they are referring to output. Not situational stats or percentages, but output. Moving the team and scoring points. I responded then you are in the same boat with RW, because the production was similar. I've read "31st in passing" or whatever it is plenty of times, yet Seattle was right there with us.

You can hold whatever opinion you want on this. I didn't start another Kaep V RW debate. I just responded to the post. I feel great about our QB and no amount of stat quoting will make me any less excited. I think he is going to have a huge yr. I am sure you feel the same about RW.

Have a good night man.

[HumanCockroach]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/06/05/andrew-lu ... r_blogs_dd

Pretty good article, and even though many Seahawks fans will be up in arms, it does indeed touch on Kap's pre snap recognision, and lack of basic route combination knowledge. Hawks fans ( well some) will be upset, because it points out that many of Russell's sacks are a product of him moving, not the o-line. he wasn't rated the worst, but many will probably guess who the love fest continues to favor ( hint it isn't someone who runs much).

"Kaepernick does not read the defense before the snap. You can tell because he shows no understanding of this basic quarterbacking concept: When one receiver is covered, it often means another receiver is not. There’s no awareness of route combinations"

[kalibane]

Future the throw against Arizona wasn't a poor throw. Was it perfect? No but it was intentionally put in a spot where only Baldwin could make a play. The interception was purely a result of a fluke bounce and poor execution by the refs. There is nothing to knock Wilson for there. You spent a lot of time talking about throwing a receiver open, that's exactly what Wilson was doing. I'm sure you can find somewhere that Wilson made a big error down the stretch but that wasn't one of them.

[NorthHawk]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/06/05/andrew-luck-russell-wilson-colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-cam-newtown-running-quarterbacks-analysis/?sct=nbar_blogs_dd

Pretty good article, and even though many Seahawks fans will be up in arms, it does indeed touch on Kap's pre snap recognision, and lack of basic route combination knowledge. Hawks fans ( well some) will be upset, because it points out that many of Russell's sacks are a product of him moving, not the o-line. he wasn't rated the worst, but many will probably guess who the love fest continues to favor ( hint it isn't someone who runs much).

"Kaepernick does not read the defense before the snap. You can tell because he shows no understanding of this basic quarterbacking concept: When one receiver is covered, it often means another receiver is not. There’s no awareness of route combinations"

Here's a scary statement:
A note on Wilson: All but one of the sacks that were a blocker’s fault came against a simple four-man rush.

[mykc14]

I am not trying to get in a huge debate here. In no way did I 'cherry pick' stats. You picked 2 stats first, I never referenced any stats. Based on those 2 stats you said they were basically equal. All I was doing was picking the area where I felt Kaep needed to improve, in reference to your post about all the off season stuff, to show where RW was much better than him. When we have a thread dedicated to RW contract extension next year there would be nothing wrong with you using stats to discuss an area where he needed to improve and if he had 4th quarter stats like Kaep had this year you could use those. Like I said IMO his 4th quarter stats are a microcosm of his issues as an NFL qb. I have actually been very high on Kaep and was surprised at his play this year, I expected more. At this point he doesn't really scare me. That may change as there is no doubt he has all the physical tools, but something currently is missing and if his football IQ is as high as everybody makes it seem then he probably shouldn't be making those mistakes.

Fair enough. I will just disagree then. Yes, he has had a couple of rough games in the 4th. He's also had far more great performances in big games and at the end of big games. People forget he has 29 career starts. It's hard for me to believe anyone could already forget ATL, GB x 2, his road win at NE, etc. Those were big games on big stages and he was lights out under pressure. I'd say his first start in.Monday Night was major pressure, and he killed it. As soon as he had any sort of struggle he's immediately a "choker". It is comical to me, honestly. I have watched all of our great QBs and Steve Young struggled more than this in the 4th for several yrs before he broke through the Cowboys. Peyton Manning didn't seem to fair much better V your D either.

In the end you look at the QB's will to win, his leadership and work ethic - not a game here or there. He'll get it done just like Elway and Young did. But of course I am a homer so that's my opinion! Lol.

And not sure if you compared him to Romo, but whoever did? Cmon. Romo has 1 playoff win in his entire career. I'll stop there.[/quote]

I wouldn't call him a choker and I didn't compare him to Romo. His 4th quarter struggles last year were not made up, the question is what caused them. It very well could have been simply due to a lack of experience or injured receivers, or it could point to other issues.

[HumanCockroach]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/06/05/andrew-luck-russell-wilson-colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-cam-newtown-running-quarterbacks-analysis/?sct=nbar_blogs_dd

Pretty good article, and even though many Seahawks fans will be up in arms, it does indeed touch on Kap's pre snap recognision, and lack of basic route combination knowledge. Hawks fans ( well some) will be upset, because it points out that many of Russell's sacks are a product of him moving, not the o-line. he wasn't rated the worst, but many will probably guess who the love fest continues to favor ( hint it isn't someone who runs much).

"Kaepernick does not read the defense before the snap. You can tell because he shows no understanding of this basic quarterbacking concept: When one receiver is covered, it often means another receiver is not. There’s no awareness of route combinations"

Here's a scary statement:
A note on Wilson: All but one of the sacks that were a blocker’s fault came against a simple four-man rush.

The scarier stat to me was that Wilson led the group in sacks that were his fault. Something that needs to be either improved on, or something people need to learn to accept ( as fans of Rothlisberger have had to learn to accept). Over a quarter of the sacks allowed weren't on that o-line, in fact, the o-line was better than all 5 QB's listed in that list.

It IS IMPORTANT to note however, that the article makes mention, that it seems as though that is what the staff wants Wilson to do though. So in essence, it is not the line, or even Wilson, but the system, coaching and scheme, they want to run ( or at least in the writers opinion, based on what he witnessed).

[burrrton]

The scarier stat to me was that Wilson led the group in sacks that were his fault.

Agreed. Question, though- did the author explain anywhere how he went about deciding such subjective determinations?

It's not so much that I object to the conclusions, but glancing I didn't see any explanation what they considered "the QB's fault", "the blockers' fault", "correct decision to scramble", and so on like you see on PFO for instance, and they all strike me as very much open to interpretation.

I think Luck is outstanding, but ZERO sacks were his fault in 600-odd dropbacks??

[HumanCockroach]

The scarier stat to me was that Wilson led the group in sacks that were his fault.

Agreed. Question, though- did the author explain anywhere how he went about deciding such subjective determinations?

It's not so much that I object to the conclusions, but glancing I didn't see any explanation what they considered "the QB's fault", "the blockers' fault", "correct decision to scramble", and so on like you see on PFO for instance, and they all strike me as very much open to interpretation.

I think Luck is outstanding, but ZERO sacks were his fault in 600-odd dropbacks??

He touches on it in the beginning, but it is in general terms. I'm not saying he's 100% accurate or anything, that stat jumped out at me, and he even hedged it with the it might be the system and coaching line.

[burrrton]

I'm not saying he's 100% accurate or anything, that stat jumped out at me, and he even hedged it with the it might be the system and coaching line.

I knew you didn't, and I'm not saying he's wrong- just seemed odd not to see an explanation what figured into such subjective determinations, ya know?

[NorthHawk]

The scarier stat to me was the OL being beaten for sacks when they have 5 guys blocking 4 DL.

[Anthony]

Dude you compared Kap to Rw saying they were the same one more time

Kap 3197 yards, complt% 58%, YPA 7.7, TDs 21, Ints 8, qb rating 91.6
RW 3357 yards, complt% 63%, ypa 8.25, tds 26, ints 9, qb rating 101.2

So let me help you yes yards were only 160 difference, but complet % was a huge difference of 5 points, that is huge, YPA nearly .55 yards that is huge, 5 more tds that is huge, qb rating nearly 10 points higher that is huge.


The biggest difference is
RW went up in yards, YPA, QB rating, and lowered his int and maintained his TDs, slightly lower comp% but still way above 60 the Mendoza line
Kap his Complt% went down by over 4 points to under 60 , his YPA went down, his QB rating went down, as to yards and tds well he did not play the whole season last year so they are harder to compare, obviously they went up but that was because he played more games.

So sorry huge difference one trending up the other down,

The other thing I find interesting about you future is how you always ignore the posts you know show you are being wrong and you are wrong

I ignore the ones that are pointless to respond to. I am not even sure what we are arguing. It started with the question of how could the Niners pay for paltry production, or something to that effect. When people use that term or similar words, they are referring to output. Not situational stats or percentages, but output. Moving the team and scoring points. I responded then you are in the same boat with RW, because the production was similar. I've read "31st in passing" or whatever it is plenty of times, yet Seattle was right there with us.

You can hold whatever opinion you want on this. I didn't start another Kaep V RW debate. I just responded to the post. I feel great about our QB and no amount of stat quoting will make me any less excited. I think he is going to have a huge yr. I am sure you feel the same about RW.

Have a good night man.

"I ignore the ones that are pointless to respond to." in other words the ones that show your wrong and you have no way of wiggling yourself out of.

You started by saying Kap and Rw stat wise were lose, I showed were you were wrong, and now you want to wiggle out of it.

[Anthony]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/06/05/andrew-luck-russell-wilson-colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-cam-newtown-running-quarterbacks-analysis/?sct=nbar_blogs_dd

Pretty good article, and even though many Seahawks fans will be up in arms, it does indeed touch on Kap's pre snap recognision, and lack of basic route combination knowledge. Hawks fans ( well some) will be upset, because it points out that many of Russell's sacks are a product of him moving, not the o-line. he wasn't rated the worst, but many will probably guess who the love fest continues to favor ( hint it isn't someone who runs much).

"Kaepernick does not read the defense before the snap. You can tell because he shows no understanding of this basic quarterbacking concept: When one receiver is covered, it often means another receiver is not. There’s no awareness of route combinations"

Its Peter King he has been on Lucks jock since day one, no sacks were his fault, so the sack he took in game 3 were ran into the sack was not his fault really. Its funny the paid part of ESPN said only 1 sack of RWs was his fault but king says most were his fault. Also footballoutsiders takes into account whose fault the sack is and our oline was still dead last in pass blocking, So I do not buy anything king says

[Anthony]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/06/05/andrew-luck-russell-wilson-colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-cam-newtown-running-quarterbacks-analysis/?sct=nbar_blogs_dd

Pretty good article, and even though many Seahawks fans will be up in arms, it does indeed touch on Kap's pre snap recognision, and lack of basic route combination knowledge. Hawks fans ( well some) will be upset, because it points out that many of Russell's sacks are a product of him moving, not the o-line. he wasn't rated the worst, but many will probably guess who the love fest continues to favor ( hint it isn't someone who runs much).

"Kaepernick does not read the defense before the snap. You can tell because he shows no understanding of this basic quarterbacking concept: When one receiver is covered, it often means another receiver is not. There’s no awareness of route combinations"

Here's a scary statement:
A note on Wilson: All but one of the sacks that were a blocker’s fault came against a simple four-man rush.

yeah tells me we cannot block.