Legin of Boom Rule and A New Season

[Bird Droppings]

Well, lay dees and gennelmens, training camp opens at week's end.

Blount on ESPN blog, along with others, have put in their predictions to the final 53 man roster.

And this morning, Pro Football Talk has details on what they're calling The Legion of Boom Rule:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... boom-rule/

Yep, no more mauling those receivers figuring the officials will be tougher ... and a response from the Richard Sherman Corporation that they can't throw flags on every play and the ex-superisor of officials Mike Ferrari (he didn't get fast and red until after he retired) saying there will be a significant increase in flags for offensive pass interference to offset the pure punishment to defensive backs.

Well, now the president of the you knighted states has endorsed them, and re-interpretation of the rules is being named after them.

What's next? ... Re-naming the Alaskan Way Viaduct (or tunnel of doom, take your pick) "12's"? (well, if you can get to 12's, or through 12's, then you take a right to Super Bowl Way?)

Who cares ... the season opens the end of this week!!!

zoom

[burrrton]

I get a kick out of the comments implying this is some new Seattle invention. If someone thinks this is going to have a disproportionate effect on us, I think they're in for a rude awakening.

*Every* secondary mauls/grabs/whateveryouwanttocallit on every play- LOB doesn't do it *more* than most, they just do it *better*.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Point of fact, the NFL was already clamping down on holding and grabbing by DB's hence all of the flags that Brandon Browner used to draw.

All of the Seahawk haters really came out of the woodwork on that site, they are really going to gnash their teeth when our Hawks repeat by running the table!

I mean, you would think they would have earned some respect but there was that former Charger saying that our receivers were still "pedestrian"! I couldn't believe my ears, and today he says we won "without" a very good QB. Really?? keep hating Mr. Merriman!

[Anthony]

Point of fact, the NFL was already clamping down on holding and grabbing by DB's hence all of the flags that Brandon Browner used to draw.

All of the Seahawk haters really came out of the woodwork on that site, they are really going to gnash their teeth when our Hawks repeat by running the table!

I mean, you would think they would have earned some respect but there was that former Charger saying that our receivers were still "pedestrian"! I couldn't believe my ears, and today he says we won "without" a very good QB. Really?? keep hating Mr. Merriman!

When exactly did Merriman say that? Any link?

[kalibane]

And yet when they sent examples to the referees of plays that should be holding but weren't called not a single one was from a Seahawk DB.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Anthony; Maybe it wasn't Merriman, but the ex charger I am talking about is the one who is on the NFL channel every single day. No, I don't have a link for a particular episode of a television show, how could I unless the NFL channel put it out on the internet. I do know what I heard YESTERDAY and what I heard from the ex Charger host was that in his opinion Russell Wilson wasn't a very good QB and that our receiving core wasn't very good either. No, he did not use those exact words but there was no mistaking what he meant.

[jshawaii22]

I just remember that it seemed the D-Backs got a lot more penalties with Brandon Browner at CB than with Maxwell. Didn't Brandon lead the league in '13?

Just me, but I think our D-Back play was pretty legal down the stretch and in the playoffs. Call it what they want, it's now the Patriots issue, not ours.

Our biggest issue going into camp is 'big heads'... when they ready for 'one-for-the-thumb'... they can have big heads.

js

[HumanCockroach]

Every DB worth mentioning currently does it, as did every DB worth mentioning in the history of the league. I would expect a lot of hallaballoo in the pre season, and pretty much the same stuff during the game. Players win games, and fans do not tune in to see flags thrown over and over again.

Most fans can't come to grips that Seattle is just plain better than their team, and so, you see a bunch of rubbish like PEDS ( even from teams fans who's own team has passed them in suspensions over the last couple season) or "cheaters" generally that can encompass everything from the PERCEIVED reputation of "more" of that play, or PEDS or favoratism ( LMFAO and again LMFAO) from refs, to unfair noise because of the daring to put a ROOF on an outdoor stadium in Seattle, or "piped" in noise or any other imagined cheats the Hawks use to simply beat other teams down with their superior talent, depth and clutch play. Ignore the stupidity, and move on, it isn't worth the time...

[Futureite]

I get a kick out of the comments implying this is some new Seattle invention. If someone thinks this is going to have a disproportionate effect on us, I think they're in for a rude awakening.

*Every* secondary mauls/grabs/whateveryouwanttocallit on every play- LOB doesn't do it *more* than most, they just do it *better*.

I don't know if it will have a disproportionate effect on the Hawks winning but that's not the point. Point is they do it a lot and it should be called. I've been posting for a while that I saw it with my own eyes Thursday Night in 2012 before I was really even familiar with your entire secondary, long before it became a national storyline. Your DBs were holding damn near every pass play. Sherman tried to shift the narrative to "the bully doesn't like to be bullied", but that made no sense (per usual). A receiver's job is not to engage in hand fighting or overpowering a DB 15-20 yds down field. Every DB would love to force a wr to engage like that on every play. This is about the 3rd point I've been criticized here for making in the past but has been independently validated within the last week! The football gods are bestowing the "anti-homer" defense upon me this month, "schmacking" (as Browner once said) some of you around pretty good lately .

[Anthony]

Anthony; Maybe it wasn't Merriman, but the ex charger I am talking about is the one who is on the NFL channel every single day. No, I don't have a link for a particular episode of a television show, how could I unless the NFL channel put it out on the internet. I do know what I heard YESTERDAY and what I heard from the ex Charger host was that in his opinion Russell Wilson wasn't a very good QB and that our receiving core wasn't very good either. No, he did not use those exact words but there was no mistaking what he meant.

Hmm I listen pretty much every day too but have not heard that, does not really matter as the stats, and facts show him wrong too.

[Anthony]

I get a kick out of the comments implying this is some new Seattle invention. If someone thinks this is going to have a disproportionate effect on us, I think they're in for a rude awakening.

*Every* secondary mauls/grabs/whateveryouwanttocallit on every play- LOB doesn't do it *more* than most, they just do it *better*.

I don't know if it will have a disproportionate effect on the Hawks winning but that's not the point. Point is they do it a lot and it should be called. I've been posting for a while that I saw it with my own eyes Thursday Night in 2012 before I was really even familiar with your entire secondary, long before it became a national storyline. Your DBs were holding damn near every pass play. Sherman tried to shift the narrative to "the bully doesn't like to be bullied", but that made no sense (per usual). A receiver's job is not to engage in hand fighting or overpowering a DB 15-20 yds down field. Every DB would love to force a wr to engage like that on every play. This is about the 3rd point I've been criticized here for making in the past but has been independently validated within the last week! The football gods are bestowing the "anti-homer" defense upon me this month, "schmacking" (as Browner once said) some of you around pretty good lately .

Point is SF does it a lot and it should be called, point is when they showed fim of what is and is not allowed not one example was of a Hawk. Your Wr push off the DBs on almost every play whats your point, oh nothing. Point is as usually you full of crap.

[burrrton]

Point is they do it a lot and it should be called.

Fine- call it, don't call it, I don't care. *My* point is EVERYONE "does it a lot", so acting like this was some key to the SEA secondary's effectiveness, but no one else's, is nonsense.

Again, grabbing/bumping is part of *every* team's technique- we just seem to be better at it than most and it gets opponents' panties in a wad (for example: you).

(and it's worth noting again that none of the examples of what not to do was of a Seahawk- odd, that, isn't it if we're the poster children for the behavior?)

Your DBs were holding damn near every pass play.

And your receivers shove off damn near every pass play, and considering that's also going to be a point of emphasis (if I read that story right), I think you should be much more worried about that.

You guys weren't that good to begin with.

This is about the 3rd point I've been criticized here for making in the past but has been independently validated within the last week! The football gods are bestowing the "anti-homer" defense upon me this month, "schmacking" (as Browner once said) some of you around pretty good lately

LOL.

Future, I've been one of the 'regulars' who enjoyed engaging with you more than most over the years, and I'm about 3 nonsensical posts away from just completely ignoring you.

You've been on a roll lately alright, but I'm not sure it's the one you think.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Get 'em, burrton.

I haven't replied to any of his foolishness, but I take the 3 points Future is crowing about are:

1. Luck better than Wilson
2. Sherman's the villain, Crabtree is the victim
3. Seattle corners should be called for PI on almost every play.

Largely unsubstantiated opinions by him, but, my take?
1.) Hard to say if Luck is better than Wilson or vice versa, but Wilson has been amazing by any standard for QB play. I'm expecting an uptick in passing plays this season, and Wilson is going to take another step forward and silence the doubters. I suspect Luck will too, but he's got to protect the ball better.
2.) Crabtree is trying to take the high road on this, but the evidence, despite Futures claim to contrary, shows Crabtree pulled the first punches. Sherman's attitude definitely grates on people; most people I know don't like him, but all his incidents have occurred after his "opponent" made the first move. Crabtree is much more in the wrong than Sherman on this one.
3.) My stepdad would agree with this because he's a Saints fan, and saw his beloved team get shutdown, not once, but twice in the same season. However, Seattle's corners aren't getting away with murder; they just keep their hands on the receivers at all times; they are not pulling jerseys or arms (or, on the few occasions they do, they get called for it). I think Greg Easterbrook described it well:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10288 ... st-defense

Plus, you really have to take into account their intent here. They are just trying to maintain awareness of the receivers location and be in a position to contest the catch. The referees probably realize this and take Seattle's DB's intent into account when they are considering throwing a flag .

[RiverDog]

And your receivers shove off damn near every pass play, and considering that's also going to be a point of emphasis (if I read that story right), I think you should be much more worried about that.

You guys weren't that good to begin with.

This is about the 3rd point I've been criticized here for making in the past but has been independently validated within the last week! The football gods are bestowing the "anti-homer" defense upon me this month, "schmacking" (as Browner once said) some of you around pretty good lately

LOL.

Future, I've been one of the 'regulars' who enjoyed engaging with you more than most over the years, and I'm about 3 nonsensical posts away from just completely ignoring you.

You've been on a roll lately alright, but I'm not sure it's the one you think.

I'm willing to grant you as being right on the Aldon Smith incident...ONCE Goodell lays down his two game suspension, that is.

But I don't know where it is that you think you've been so damn right all the time. You got your butt kicked to the moon and back in the Luck/Wilson debate by half of the forum members.

[HumanCockroach]

Because he is the only "objective" fan in the world, haven't you caught on to that yet RD. It's pretty obvious to everyone that isn't the case and hasn't been for a very long time now, but excuses and made up garbage is easier than simply admitting that the Seahawks are simply better at football.... so..... you get this garbage. To be fair he isn't alone, and just about every fan that doesn't root for the Hawks does the same thing, so he can use weight of numbers to back up his unsubstantiated claims, lies or hyperbole...

Edit: the funny thing to me personally is he dismisses those same fans as uneducated and foolish when it suits, and then uses the, as "proof" when he wants.... LMAO

[Hawktawk]

Future can STFU. On the heralded tip in the NFC Title game I got the Crabs Tree shoves Sherman so hard a Kelly Jennings type guy would have been on his face. Pushing off is the only way any SF reciever other than VD can get open.And they call Seattle's receivers pedestrian!

I wonder if their focus on OPI will have an effect on the Broncos. They had more YAC than any team last year. And it was primarily a result of Broncos players engaging defenders LONG before the pass was thrown. They tried that stuff vs the Hawks but with our freakish speed in the secondary coupled with great linebacker play the Hawks stuffed it. But they wound up knocking Aquib Talib out of the AFC championship with one of those plays. I doubt it will get called next year either. Gotta keep the noodle armed fossil around you know.Good for TV ratings....

[Futureite]

Future can STFU. On the heralded tip in the NFC Title game I got the Crabs Tree shoves Sherman so hard a Kelly Jennings type guy would have been on his face. Pushing off is the only way any SF reciever other than VD can get open.And they call Seattle's receivers pedestrian!

I wonder if their focus on OPI will have an effect on the Broncos. They had more YAC than any team last year. And it was primarily a result of Broncos players engaging defenders LONG before the pass was thrown. They tried that stuff vs the Hawks but with our freakish speed in the secondary coupled with great linebacker play the Hawks stuffed it. But they wound up knocking Aquib Talib out of the AFC championship with one of those plays. I doubt it will get called next year either. Gotta keep the noodle armed fossil around you know.Good for TV ratings....

Fine with me if that is called. Call Boldin for pushoffs. It is not a material paet of what our WRs do. It is laughable to suggwsr Seattle's DBs do not do this a lot. It is a big part of their strategy and it is no mystery. People crowed about the 2 man Smith hold game 2 yrs ago and I never denied it. But I am any name you pick if I call out your DBs on the same tactics? The difference is you have an entire backfield that is coached up to do it, and that backfield is the strength of your entire team. I literally saw it with my own eyes and posted on it long, ling before it became a national narrative. Like I said, it may oe may noylt effwct their success (minimal effect is my guess) but that's not the point. A lot of people arw flat out tired of watching it and it should be called.

[burrrton]

It is a big part of their strategy and it is no mystery.

It's a big part of EVERYBODY'S strategy, you f*cking noob. Watch the NFL someday. Hell, go look at the examples sent to the league.

It is not a material paet of what our WRs do.

LOL. What the hell are you talking about? If you do it every play (which you do), it's as "material" as any other aspect of your receivers getting open.

You just need to keep your fingers crossed that the league is lying about making OPI a point of emphasis, too, because again, you guys aren't that good to begin with.

They take away your receivers' main way to create separation and your passing game goes from merely bad to a non-factor.

[HumanCockroach]

LOL. Not an important part of what Niners receivers do? Seriously? Bold in has made a CAREER out of OPI, they call it "physical" but realistically it is offensive pass interference on just about every single play. LMFAO. We are talking about a receiver that did it day one, and 12 years later does it even more, same dude who thinks "blocking" on a running play involves body slamming a DB, literally picking him up off the ground and slamming him back to it.

I've no problem with them enforcing it, as LONG as they call it across the board, not just Seattle, but on Revis,Haden, Peterson etc ( pretty much any DB worth a damn, since they ALL do it, JUST as MUCH as Seattle DB's) if not, than it is garbage and the league once again shows their desire to become the new NBA with favorites that "get the benefit of the doubt" and it's the jersey color, not the talent. Seattle does NOT do so anymore than any other team ( and actually I saw NUMEROUS occations last season where there was a flag on incidental contact, that would NEVER be called on another team, why is that you think? Well because Seattle has a "reputation" that idiots continue to profess as "worse then" other teams, over and over again, wonder why that is?jealousy is a B!tch.

[Futureite]

Burrton;

On my drive for coffee literally right after you posted you response John Clayton.stated on ESPN Radio "Seattle plays the tightest coverage in the league. The new league mandate will be another hurdle for them to overcome". THE TIGHTEST.

During our December 8th game Troy Aikman said "you could almost throw a flag on Seattle's secondary on every play".

These quotes are as close to verbatim as possible. So my opinion is not slanted or filtered. It is no secret that your secondary likes to grab, hold and bump receivers well downfield. It's the exact same thing that the Pats did to the Rams in 2000 and later to the Colts in the 2003 AFCCCG. Getting angry at me is silly when that is widely aknowledged throughout the league.

2nd, contact downfield contact disproportionatly effects a WR more than a DB. If this is called evenly it's going to have a much bigger impact on the D than the O, regardless of what you feel our WRs get away with. A WR would like to avoid contact at all cost and disengage. Any sort of contact disruots the receiver's timing, his ability to get to a spot and of courae his ability to catch the ball with his back to the defender. Suggesting that our WRs (or any) will be effected as much as the D for stricter rule enforcement is absurd, and you have more than enough football knowledge to know it.

3rd, I stated more than once that I "doubt" it will have much of an effect on your DBs. I never said that is why they are good or that they are destined to plummet. What I said is their grabbing and holding is a strategy that they employ (and it's known) and it should be called. Frankly I am tired of watching it. Tired of hearing people defend it or pretend that "everyone does it" No, Seattle intentionally selected huge corners and intentionally coached them up to play a certain way. Those guys are not burners, and a MATERIAL part of their game is jamming at the line and playing physical downfield. Again, it's no mystery. These guys are not built to play any other way.

What I do believe is that a call or two will have an effect in a close game, and what I saw in person multiple times was PI - nothing more, nothing less. As long as it's called evenly then no one should complain, right??

[HumanCockroach]

If you truly believe statement two, you really have never participated in the sport. The idea that a man that knows where he is going, pushing a man who doesn't effects the second "less" than a man able to fight through contact to get to his spot that he and only he knows is just plain stupid. Add in the push offs in the back of a DB in the air, or push offs on a man back pedalling, hell I can go through a LONG list, but what would be the point. According to you, a man moving in one direction, being pushed in that same direction, without knowing it, while the one pushing him is moving in the opposite direction, doesn't effect the ability to make a play. LMFAO and ROTFF. Whatever. Obviously you are in lala land again.

FYI Receivers are TAUGHT to CLOSE distance, on multiple routes, and route trees, they most certainly are NOT taught to "avoid contact" at all times. The more you post, the more you show how little you actually understand the game.

[burrrton]

Future, Clayton and Aikman are paid to fill air time (you like running to authority, don't you?). In fact I listen to Clayton a lot (or did- I haven't caught him since they reorganized the ESPN Radio Seattle lineup on 7/14), and I've heard him discussing the physical nature of secondaries *we faced* being tougher on our smaller receivers.

You know as well as I do that *every* DB could have a flag thrown on virtually every pass play if the referee wanted to throw one, and nothing you quoted/paraphrased contradicts that. Crying that you heard Aikman make a remark about our secondary once certainly doesn't- do you think he or Clayton would say contact downfield is a uniquely Seattle phenomenon?

2nd, contact downfield contact disproportionatly effects a WR more than a DB.

Sorry, Future- calling DB contact more closely will have less effect on a team that is at the top of the league and for the most part simply does it better than most, and that every other team in the league also does on virtually every play, than calling OPI on a team that relies on it to simply be bad.

A couple more PIs a game could make our secondary slightly less effective, but it could make your passing game a non-factor (in theory- everyone adjusts).

A WR would like to avoid contact at all cost and disengage.

Of course, but the NFL isn't played in the Land of Unicorns, so there *will* be guys contacting them, and a *very* effective way to get away from that contact at key moments is... say it with me... shoving off.

So arguing calling OPI for "shoving off" won't have much effect on a team that does it a lot because receivers would prefer to be left alone is, well, I don't know what (not enough coffee yet), but it has nothing to do with it.

What I do believe is that a call or two will have an effect in a close game, and what I saw in person multiple times was PI - nothing more, nothing less.

Future, I have every game on Tivo upstairs- you want to bet me I can't find textbook DPI (contact past 5 yds when not looking for the ball, jersey grabs, etc) on your secondary "multiple times", too?

[Futureite]

Future, Clayton and Aikman are paid to fill air time (you like running to authority, don't you?). In fact I listen to Clayton a lot (or did- I haven't caught him since they reorganized the ESPN Radio Seattle lineup on 7/14), and I've heard him discussing the physical nature of secondaries *we faced* being tougher on our smaller receivers.

You know as well as I do that *every* DB could have a flag thrown on virtually every pass play if the referee wanted to throw one, and nothing you quoted/paraphrased contradicts that. Crying that you heard Aikman make a remark about our secondary once certainly doesn't- do you think he or Clayton would say contact downfield is a uniquely Seattle phenomenon?

2nd, contact downfield contact disproportionatly effects a WR more than a DB.

Sorry, Future- calling DB contact more closely will have less effect on a team that is at the top of the league and for the most part simply does it better than most, and that every other team in the league also does on virtually every play, than calling OPI on a team that relies on it to simply be bad.

A couple more PIs a game could make our secondary slightly less effective, but it could make your passing game a non-factor (in theory- everyone adjusts).

A WR would like to avoid contact at all cost and disengage.

Of course, but the NFL isn't played in the Land of Unicorns, so there *will* be guys contacting them, and a *very* effective way to get away from that contact at key moments is... say it with me... shoving off.

So arguing calling OPI for "shoving off" won't have much effect on a team that does it a lot because receivers would prefer to be left alone is, well, I don't know what (not enough coffee yet), but it has nothing to do with it.

What I do believe is that a call or two will have an effect in a close game, and what I saw in person multiple times was PI - nothing more, nothing less.

Future, I have every game on Tivo upstairs- you want to bet me I can't find textbook DPI (contact past 5 yds when not looking for the ball, jersey grabs, etc) on your secondary "multiple times", too?

So are you in fact asserting that every NFL team has 2 starting corners at 6'3+ ? Neither Browner nor Sherman are speed merchants. Yes, every DB tries to get away with it to a point, but playing pbysical both at the line and downfield is the Hawks ENTIRE strategy. Then, you have the fastest sideline to sideline FS to cover any ground that is missed. The stategy is obvious, and the assertion that all other teams employ the same strategy is just ridiculous. Most teams do not have the personnel to do this either at corner or FS.

This is no different than the 49ers chop block techniques of the 80's. People hated that and said it was dirty. I agreed to a point. Sure, other teams "did it" too, but the 49ers entire O philosohy was based upon in. Our linemen were much smaller than the average O linemen so they could pull and pass protect in the WCO, and the chopblock stategy allowed them to excell at both. A lot of people complained about it, but I never denied it.

Grabbing and holding is not the reason the LOB is good, but that's beside the point. Sherman grabs and holds multiple times on the same play in games I've watched. It's total BS and any football fan is well within their right to express their frustration over it. Point is, it should be called, period. I have no problem with an increased emphasis on O pI either, but I am going to strongly disagree with your assertion that contact aids a WR as much as a DB. On average it aids to D far more thsn the O.

[burrrton]

but playing pbysical both at the line and downfield is the Hawks ENTIRE strategy.

Future, if this is your honest opinion, and you're not just trying to bullsh*t your way out of a stupid position, I'm going to be done addressing you.

Our corners may be taller than most, and they may not be "burners", but neither is a linebacker for chrissakes, and since when is either of those things a barrier or requirement (respectively) for being good without "cheating"??

Most teams do not have the personnel to do this either at corner or FS.

They don't have the personnel to be *good* at it, but getting up in the receivers' grills and bumping and grabbing, and having a free safety that roams, are part of (virtually) EVERY team's strategy.

Again, you want to bet me I can screenshot "multiple" examples of your team doing it (to pick one example you might be more familiar with)?

I am going to strongly disagree with your assertion that contact aids a WR as much as a DB.

I don't think I made that assertion- I said *pushing off* aids *your* WRs more (relative to other teams) than downfield contact aids *our* secondary (relative to other teams), and also that you don't have any room for error (so to speak).

[Futureite]

but playing pbysical both at the line and downfield is the Hawks ENTIRE strategy.

Future, if this is your honest opinion, and you're not just trying to bullsh*t your way out of a stupid position, I'm going to be done addressing you.

Our corners may be taller than most, and they may not be "burners", but neither is a linebacker for chrissakes, and since when is either of those things a barrier or requirement (respectively) for being good without "cheating"??

Most teams do not have the personnel to do this either at corner or FS.

They don't have the personnel to be *good* at it, but getting up in the receivers' grills and bumping and grabbing, and having a free safety that roams, are part of (virtually) EVERY team's strategy.

Again, you want to bet me I can screenshot "multiple" examples of your team doing it (to pick one example you might be more familiar with)?

I am going to strongly disagree with your assertion that contact aids a WR as much as a DB.

I don't think I made that assertion- I said *pushing off* aids *your* WRs more (relative to other teams) than downfield contact aids *our* secondary (relative to other teams), and also that you don't have any room for error (so to speak).

Again, I never said they'd not be "good" nor did I say they "cheat". As Carroll said himself in so many words, they are trying to play as close to the rules as possible without breaking them. Problem is, they obviously cross the line more than they straddle it. You posit that my position has no support, yet as I stated there are former professional athletes and analysts that have spoken to this topic. Are you going to discredit them all?? Why do so many other people perceive this the same way that I do?

Will PI flags on our receivers hurt? Well, Boldin will push off at times at the end of a route. He got away with it more than once V Carolina in the playoffs. So yes, it could have some effect on his game. The majority of what he does is built on precision route running, shielding a defender with his body to gain postion, and using his strong hands to fight for 50/50 balls. He is the only one of our receivers that plays that brand of ball. When you can show me the collective national football audience calling out our WRs for employing a strategy that is potentially crosses the line, I'll change my opinion. It's nwver going to happen though because NO coach is going to teach his WRs to seek out contact.

Your guys grab and hold on some level nearly every damn play. I am tired of the excuses for it just like the "everyone uses PEDs" excuse. How about manning up and just owning up to it. I am not discrediting them or talking about asteruks or anything else, but denial of what everyone else sees is not going to change our perception. I know what I saw Thursday Night with my own 2 eyes, and it was a lot of FN holding! Lol

[Futureite]

I will go on record with a prediction too:

A holding/PI call will effect one of the many close games that Seattle most likely will have this yr. IF (remember, "if") that game has any impact whatsoever on the division, Sherman will call out the NFL for targeting the Hawks. He'll state the case that the NFL did not want Seattle to win up in the North Pole, there was no other way to slow the dynasry, on and on. This narrative will quickly shift the blame to JH and his complaing to the league in 2012. Ultimately, it will morph into the 49ers whined about it and got their way, because they are a "signature franchise" which the league wants to see win.

Lol I'd just like to be on record for this.

[HumanCockroach]

Got it. You're on record as being as cool as the coach you so admire.

[burrrton]

You posit that my position has no support, yet as I stated there are former professional athletes and analysts that have spoken to this topic.

The position I take issue with is that this is some uniquely "Seahawk" behavior, and Aikman saying we do it a lot doesn't contradict that- all teams do it a lot, and I'd posit Troy and Clayton were both filling airtime with that week's talking point.

As I said, I've heard Clayton discussing the same thing for other teams' secondaries (we have small receivers, so it's germane). Is Clayton only reliable if he's talking about the Seahawks and not about other teams?

Why do so many other people perceive this the same way that I do?

LOL.

Future, I want you to go read up on "argumentum ad populum": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so."

See also: your bullsh*t about Russell Wilson not being able to pass from the pocket (which I also heard announcers and pundits discuss at times- HE MUST BE BAD FROM THE POCKET, THEN, RIGHT, FUTURE?!?), or him not being as good as Luck, and so on. You've retreated to the same baloney on all those subjects iirc.

The majority of what he does is built on precision route running, shielding a defender with his body to gain postion, and using his strong hands to fight for 50/50 balls.

Fine, but similarly, the "majority" of LOB's success isn't built on grabbing the receiver's jersey. If it was, there'd be a whole lot of similarly effective secondaries out there because, one more time, we're not the only ones that do it.

Here, go read up: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/1/29/5 ... on-manning

When you can show me the collective national football audience calling out our WRs for employing a strategy that is potentially crosses the line, I'll change my opinion.

So if I engage in similarly fallacious reasoning as you, you'll change your opinion. Solid rationale, there, Future.

How about manning up and just owning up to it.

How about you pay as close attention to other team's defensive backs as you do to ours, then "manning up" and admitting it's not a uniquely Seattle tactic?

[edited for formatting since I had trouble reading my own post]

[burrrton]

Lol I'd just like to be on record for this.

Lol not very bold for two reasons:

1. The chances of a DPI call "affecting a game" are pretty good every game every week since 2004.
2. Sherm isn't one predisposed to holding his tongue.

[HumanCockroach]

"The majority of what he does is built on precision route running, shielding a defender with his body to gain postion, and using his strong hands to fight for 50/50 ballS"

What that says to me, is you watch Boldin only slightly more than you watch the Seahawks defensive backfield, which if that is what you believe, isn't very much. Boldin is in a constant hand battle on almost every route where he isn't provided a cushion, which has allowed him to have this "HOF" career ( LOL) which is why he has struggled so mightily against the Seahawks defensive backfield, because he CAN'T simply push them out of the way to garner the seperation he gains from doing so on a regular basis against smaller ( and common) defensive backs. Without the ability to do that, he no longer creates seperation. he can still use his hands and size to make plays, but now you are talking about Mike Williams, instead of a PRO BOwl, guy. Big difference there. He isn't a guy that is going to run away from anyone, nor has he ever been that guy. Without his ability to physically create space, he really isn't worht much.

That said, I do NOT believe for a second, that Refs will call him on it ( after all OPI has been on the books his entire career and they haven't done so with any regularity up to this point) and as ALWAYS the league continues to attempt to skew the rules to encourage scoring. I'm sure there were quite a few panties in a bunch after this defense completely dismantled "the best offense in the history of the game" personally I have zero delusions of who the cartel at the top of the NFL wanted to win that SB, and not by a few points. Offense ( ie, the NFL's version of "chicks dig the long ball") is what the NFL wants, strives for and attempts to force feed every fan in the world. That isn't going to change, and as such, offensive players will be aloud to continue to run illegal pick plays, push off, shove in the back, pull on DB's jerseys and pretty much do whatever and whenever they feel the desire to do so, cause hey, why would anyone want to actually watch FOOTBALL when they can instead watch fast breaks on a football field...

[HumanCockroach]

Bump

[Futureite]

"The majority of what he does is built on precision route running, shielding a defender with his body to gain postion, and using his strong hands to fight for 50/50 ballS"

What that says to me, is you watch Boldin only slightly more than you watch the Seahawks defensive backfield, which if that is what you believe, isn't very much. Boldin is in a constant hand battle on almost every route where he isn't provided a cushion, which has allowed him to have this "HOF" career ( LOL) which is why he has struggled so mightily against the Seahawks defensive backfield, because he CAN'T simply push them out of the way to garner the seperation he gains from doing so on a regular basis against smaller ( and common) defensive backs. Without the ability to do that, he no longer creates seperation. he can still use his hands and size to make plays, but now you are talking about Mike Williams, instead of a PRO BOwl, guy. Big difference there. He isn't a guy that is going to run away from anyone, nor has he ever been that guy. Without his ability to physically create space, he really isn't worht much.

That said, I do NOT believe for a second, that Refs will call him on it ( after all OPI has been on the books his entire career and they haven't done so with any regularity up to this point) and as ALWAYS the league continues to attempt to skew the rules to encourage scoring. I'm sure there were quite a few panties in a bunch after this defense completely dismantled "the best offense in the history of the game" personally I have zero delusions of who the cartel at the top of the NFL wanted to win that SB, and not by a few points. Offense ( ie, the NFL's version of "chicks dig the long ball") is what the NFL wants, strives for and attempts to force feed every fan in the world. That isn't going to change, and as such, offensive players will be aloud to continue to run illegal pick plays, push off, shove in the back, pull on DB's jerseys and pretty much do whatever and whenever they feel the desire to do so, cause hey, why would anyone want to actually watch FOOTBALL when they can instead watch fast breaks on a football field...

Actually Boldin can and has shoved Richard Sherman all over the field. Even Steve Smith has at 190 lbs. But like I said, engaging in any physical contact at all with a DB is a win for the DB and a loss for the WR. Doing so throws off the timing of both the QB and the WR. I posted that a least twice before, and that is why the assertion that ramping up PI calls effects the O and D evenly is bogus. Clearly, it hurts the D far more than the O.

Now I did just read your man Sherman's unprovoked tweet in response to Peterson's contract. To paraphrase - "Richard Sherman and Patrick.Peterson have given up a combined 8 TDs. 7 of those have been given up by Peterson".

Let's hear the Re:? Peterson started it by making himself the highest paid corner. Or did Peterson start an argument with Sherman 3 yrs ago at a slumber party. Or option 3, Dick is out to start drama again when no one has said a word or done a thing. That's just Dick being Dick. But hey, he donates a ton to charity and graduated from Stanford

[HumanCockroach]

LOL. Now I guess retwteeting what someone else tweets is the same as doing so yourself. SMH. Sherman did Not tweet, he forwarded it from a fan that obviously pays attention, that had tweeted it. LOL. Sherman responded to Petersons tweet, with the only thing that matters, a pic of a SB ring on his finger. Peterson "just having fun" is fine, difference is, he understands what it is, Sherman understands what it is, why you can't seem to grasp it ( or Crabtree for that matter) is on you guys,Mr "it's just entertainment" until of course it's directed at my team, LMFAO what a hypocrite..... SMDH.

[burrrton]

But like I said, engaging in any physical contact at all with a DB is a win for the DB and a loss for the WR. Doing so throws off the timing of both the QB and the WR.

JFC.

One more time, from the heart:

Yes, the receiver would love nothing more than running routes on an empty field. In an NFL game, though, the receiver doesn't get that luxury. There are 11 guys on the other side of the ball, too, so "contact" happens. "Contact" is their reality. "Contact" is the water these NFL fish swim in.

The point is that "contact" works both ways- the DB can bump and grab and throw off the timing (an advantage for the D), or the receiver can *push off* (a HUGE advantage for the O).

So stop with your bullsh*t about "contact" being some horrible thing the receiver always wants to avoid. In the reality of an NFL game, there is a certain kind of "contact" that benefits receivers to a great degree (and that one or more of your receivers makes a living doing).

Honestly- if you let the DB grab the receiver everywhere on the field, but allowed the receiver to give the DB a shove when the ball is about to arrive, who do you think that benefits most?

[NorthHawk]

Successful receivers know how to push off without getting caught.
Michael Irvin carved out a HoF carreer by pushing off.

[HumanCockroach]

This is stupid. Anyone that thinks receivers don't benefit ever from pushing off, or grabbing a DB is retarded and doesn't watch, hasn't played, or hasn't coached the game. In one post there is a claim to precision route running, the next how Boldin has "pushed" Sherman all over the field. Stupid.

Of course receivers wish there was no contact, as much as they wish there was no defenders what so ever. Players like Boldin made their career on "out physicalling" defensive backs, it is his bread and butter, and the ONE thing that seperseparates him from being an "ok" receiver, without it, he wouldn't be what he was, and arguing he would, shows a fundamental lack of understanding about not only him, but the game itself.

[Zorn76]

None of this is gonna matter.

Seattle will still have the best defense - bar none - this season.

Period.

[Futureite]

This is stupid. Anyone that thinks receivers don't benefit ever from pushing off, or grabbing a DB is retarded and doesn't watch, hasn't played, or hasn't coached the game. In one post there is a claim to precision route running, the next how Boldin has "pushed" Sherman all over the field. Stupid.

Of course receivers wish there was no contact, as much as they wish there was no defenders what so ever. Players like Boldin made their career on "out physicalling" defensive backs, it is his bread and butter, and the ONE thing that seperseparates him from being an "ok" receiver, without it, he wouldn't be what he was, and arguing he would, shows a fundamental lack of understanding about not only him, but the game itself.

Ok so I and everyone else are wrong. Both the O and D are goung to be effected exactly the same. That is what the NFL wants; more defense. You know the phrase, "Defense sells tickets Offense wins championchips".

Boldin (or any other possession receiver for that matter) can "outphysical" a DB using plenty of legal techniques: By shielding with their body, handfighting or outmuscling at the LOS where contact is legal, or fighting for 50/50 balls in the air. The idea that Boldin is good because he is just pushing and shoving DBs off is ridiculous. No receiver wants to rely on that dude. We don't have a corp full of WRs that have been systematically taught how to push and shove off as part of their strategy. We do not have huge 6'4 230 lb WRs capable of modeling their game after such a ridiculous strategy even if our coaching staff wanted to employ it.

I've had to have posted at least 3 or 4 times now that I don't expect the rule change to effect the Hawk D much. But, I do expect them to be called now more often for this BS. One or two calls could have a huge effect on one game or the entire season. I know it did for us with the necktie call on Ahmad Brooks' sack of Brees. That is all I am saying.

[NorthHawk]

There's definitely going to be a "learning curve" for DBs, just like it was for hits.
I wonder if the Refs will start out being real strict then ease off as the year goes on and the games become more important.
It's human nature to not try to influence games and let the players decide the outcome except for extremely obvious violations.

[Futureite]

There's definitely going to be a "learning curve" for DBs, just like it was for hits.
I wonder if the Refs will start out being real strict then ease off as the year goes on and the games become more important.
It's human nature to not try to influence games and let the players decide the outcome except for extremely obvious violations.

Probably. A lot of people thought the head ramming rule for RBs was goung to effect physical teams like SF and Seattle, but it ibviously did not. Teams and players will adapt. Sherman will still be one of the best DBs and Thomas rhe best FS. It is going to effwct the game on some level though, as you say.