The Reason Bowie Was Waived

[RiverDog]

He reported to camp overweight and way out of shape. Surgery will cause him to miss 4-6 months, or essentially the entire season.

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawk ... -a-message

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah, we've never kept an overweight lineman before ...

[HumanCockroach]

Never understand the "this is THE reason" thing, guessing there was more than "one" reason, as they were indeed planning on keeping him according to all the reports I've heard. Guessing it had more to do with necessary competition and depth at the RT spot than being over weight. Not sure they wanted to just hand the job to Britt and they NEEDED a second player that could perform there, not some guy they picked up before the season started..... as always there is MORE than a simplistic single reason for moves like this.

[RiverDog]

Never understand the "this is THE reason" thing, guessing there was more than "one" reason, as they were indeed planning on keeping him according to all the reports I've heard. Guessing it had more to do with necessary competition and depth at the RT spot than being over weight. Not sure they wanted to just hand the job to Britt and they NEEDED a second player that could perform there, not some guy they picked up before the season started..... as always there is MORE than a simplistic single reason for moves like this.

Of course, there's always more than one reason, and I mentioned two... his being out of shape and his injury requiring the entire regular season to rehab. Plus there's probably one or two more, such as their confidence in Britt and/or Winston. Bowie might not have made the roster even if he was healthy and in relatively decent shape.

My objective was to start a discussion..any discussion. This place is barren of topics.

[Distant Relative]

Ya, fat and hurt usually does'nt make the roster.

[FolkCrusader]

I am a put off this season because the 'hawks website has gone from posting the full post practice interviews with Pete and selected players to posting only one or two 30 second snippets of the back and forth with reporters.

The topic RD linked was supposedly discussed by Pete but the video never made it to the website. When I had it relayed to me it was said he came in twenty pounds over weight, which while problematic maybe won't get you cut. Apparently the inflection after the "and" in Pete's explanation may have been telling. Bowie was basically immediately injured, on the first day of practice, without pads. Might have made a few people wonder. If he had been previously injured he should have been getting treatment so he was ready to go. I think there was a serious question as to how committed he was and how truthful he was being about the injury.

[jshawaii22]

A 7th round version of Carpenter is probably not what the team needed, but it's not like they didn't see him from the end of the Super Bowl to day #1 of the Training camp. They had OTA's, Visits to the White House, the Ring Thing... so they knew he was putting on weight as the Spring turned to Summer.

Sad...

js

[Zorn76]

If Winston is a good fit for the ZBS, then hopefully it works out. Pete doesn't mess around. He cuts some slack to the guys he's drafted high, but all bets are off when it comes to guys like Bowie, who was injured anyway.

They'll be other prospects brought in soon enough, in all likelihood.

[RiverDog]

I am a put off this season because the 'hawks website has gone from posting the full post practice interviews with Pete and selected players to posting only one or two 30 second snippets of the back and forth with reporters.

The topic RD linked was supposedly discussed by Pete but the video never made it to the website. When I had it relayed to me it was said he came in twenty pounds over weight, which while problematic maybe won't get you cut. Apparently the inflection after the "and" in Pete's explanation may have been telling. Bowie was basically immediately injured, on the first day of practice, without pads. Might have made a few people wonder. If he had been previously injured he should have been getting treatment so he was ready to go. I think there was a serious question as to how committed he was and how truthful he was being about the injury.

It's not a video, but here's a question-answer session with Pete Carroll noting Bowie as being 20 lbs overweight and a whole lot of other stuff you may find interesting;

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks ... ost-bowie/

[NorthHawk]

Pete talked about wanting players to stay in shape all year round.
If as a poster above said is true that they are constantly in contact with the players then it suggests he was told to get his weight down and didn't.
This and his subsequent injured shoulder was probably the reason he was waived early.

[RiverDog]

Pete talked about wanting players to stay in shape all year round.
If as a poster above said is true that they are constantly in contact with the players then it suggests he was told to get his weight down and didn't.
This and his subsequent injured shoulder was probably the reason he was waived early.

I saw that, too, and it made me wonder. Up until this season, Pete has tolerated James Carpenter's being overweight and out of shape. He's being more than a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

[NorthHawk]

Pete talked about wanting players to stay in shape all year round.
If as a poster above said is true that they are constantly in contact with the players then it suggests he was told to get his weight down and didn't.
This and his subsequent injured shoulder was probably the reason he was waived early.

I saw that, too, and it made me wonder. Up until this season, Pete has tolerated James Carpenter's being overweight and out of shape. He's being more than a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

They have a lot of money already spent on Carpenter who is part of an already weak line. I believe economics as well as the reality of needed improvements up front meant that he was kept.
Not to mention, Carpenter suggested his recovery from the knee injury took longer to heal to the point he could run in the off season to get and/or stay in shape.

[RiverDog]

Pete talked about wanting players to stay in shape all year round.
If as a poster above said is true that they are constantly in contact with the players then it suggests he was told to get his weight down and didn't.
This and his subsequent injured shoulder was probably the reason he was waived early.

I saw that, too, and it made me wonder. Up until this season, Pete has tolerated James Carpenter's being overweight and out of shape. He's being more than a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

They have a lot of money already spent on Carpenter who is part of an already weak line. I believe economics as well as the reality of needed improvements up front meant that he was kept.
Not to mention, Carpenter suggested his recovery from the knee injury took longer to heal to the point he could run in the off season to get and/or stay in shape.

Oh, I understand why, and I don't necessarily disagree. Nevertheless, it is a double standard.

[obiken]

Every situation is different; it used to drive me crazy how WJ used to miss most of the most of training camps. After the 5th Pro Bowl I got over it. You have to trust Pete's call on this. My issue is his drafting of OL hasnt been the best. Not ugly but for the draft Guru, its thin.

[HumanCockroach]

Well, to be fair, Jones spent the bulk of his career being franchised. Different set of rules now, hence only able to do it twice, and then players become unrestricted FA's. Jones spent the better part of his career, not knowing whether Seattle would ever give him any type of security moving forward, hurt = cut, for 5 years straight. Don't blame Jones for doing what he did in the least. He is one of the reasons the new CBA did away with that garbage.

[Seahawks4Ever]

It is not a double standard. J.C. was a #1 pick and those guys ALWAYS are given more latitude than a guy who was an UDFA or 6th. or 7th. rd. pick.

I understand Lynch reported to camp out of shape, maybe Pete ought to cut him too LOL.

Pete coached our Seattle Seahawks to a World Championship but still gets second guessed and kicked in the teeth. Man! Talk about "what have you done for me lately??"

[RiverDog]

It is not a double standard. J.C. was a #1 pick and those guys ALWAYS are given more latitude than a guy who was an UDFA or 6th. or 7th. rd. pick.

I understand Lynch reported to camp out of shape, maybe Pete ought to cut him too LOL.

Pete coached our Seattle Seahawks to a World Championship but still gets second guessed and kicked in the teeth. Man! Talk about "what have you done for me lately??"

I'm not suggesting that Pete cut anybody, nor did I disagree with how he handles his 'stars', first round draft choices, et al. My point was that Pete often times goes a little overboard on some of his statements, and suggesting that the standard for reporting to camp at a specified weight, shape, and time is equally applied is a complete falsehood.

[obiken]

HC It doesnt matter, my point was after earn 5 pro bowls in a row, keep doing what you are doing!!

[Seahawks4Ever]

RD, we get it, you HATE Pete Carroll and even winning the Super Bowl was not enough to ease that hate.[i] You will claim that you don't hate him but come on, be HONEST with yourself, you go out of your way to find something, anything to complain about regarding him.

I mean, WE WON THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP DUDE why can you not accept that Pete knows what he is doing.

We don't need you to "point out" Pete's supposed character flaws. He who is without fault gets to cast the first stone, what you must think of yourself (infallible maybe?) because you are a chronic stone thrower.

[c_hawkbob]

RD, we get it, you HATE Pete Carroll and even winning the Super Bowl was not enough to ease that hate.[i] You will claim that you don't hate him but come on, be HONEST with yourself, you go out of your way to find something, anything to complain about regarding him.

I mean, WE WON THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP DUDE why can you not accept that Pete knows what he is doing.

We don't need you to "point out" Pete's supposed character flaws. He who is without fault gets to cast the first stone, what you must think of yourself (infallible maybe?) because you are a chronic stone thrower.

I don't think that's quite fair either. If you'll excuse the double negative; no one never makes a mistake. I love our front office as much as you do but no front office in football is infallible, or even close to it. Mistakes are made all the time, by all teams. In fact if you're not making mistakes you're probably not willing to take the kind of chances you have to take to be successful in this league. It's not about how often you're wrong, it's about how often you're right and the degrees of each in relation to the rest of the league. The Seahawks take a lot of chances, and big ones, and they're not always going to work out the way we'd like, but the Seahawks also strike gold a whole lot more than any other team in recent years with some of the chances they take.

You don't have to be perfect (no one is), you just have to be better than everybody else, and so far, this administration has been. And I'm as happy about that as anyone, but we can still call 'em as w see 'em on individual player moves like this. I think in the end we'd be better off late in the season this year with Bowie on our roster than we will be without him too.

Not that it matters now, what's important now is what we do next.

[NorthHawk]

I think if you are a "Core Player" you would get more leeway than a late pick who because of injury played in a half dozen games his first year.
Considering the types of players who are our "Core", that won't be a problem because of the highly competitive and focused nature of these guys.

I would guess Bowie was told he had to come into camp at his playing weight as he wouldn't be able to compete properly while carrying an extra 20 lbs.
As it turned out, he wasn't ready and got hurt his first day. So he was exposed to waivers early and ended up being banished to Cleveland.
So be it.

Like Bob said above, it would be better to have him at the end of the year, but we don't, so life goes on.
Maybe one of the others we picked up can improve the play of the OL more than a healthy Bowie could.
It's their chance to be the "Next Man Up" and show us what they have.

[RiverDog]

RD, we get it, you HATE Pete Carroll and even winning the Super Bowl was not enough to ease that hate.[i] You will claim that you don't hate him but come on, be HONEST with yourself, you go out of your way to find something, anything to complain about regarding him.

I mean, WE WON THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP DUDE why can you not accept that Pete knows what he is doing.

We don't need you to "point out" Pete's supposed character flaws. He who is without fault gets to cast the first stone, what you must think of yourself (infallible maybe?) because you are a chronic stone thrower.

Oh, enough of that crap! First off, speak for yourself only. You were not elected by anyone to represent an opinion more than that of your own, so dispense with this "we get it" or "we" don't need you to point out" bullchit!

Secondly, I do not hate Pete Carroll. On the contrary, I have consistently stated on numerous occasions that I have a very high degree of respect for his abilities as a football coach, particularly on the defensive side of the ball, and have stated on a number of occasions that he can coach my Seahawks as long as he desires. But somehow, people like you tend to overlook or use their selective memory to forget about those statements.

Like all of us, Pete Carroll has his character flaws, no more and no less than the bulk of the population, and pointing them out does not make one a "hater."

[obiken]

Pete's a mixed bag, he is great at getting rid of players who cannot or will not play top notched NFL Football. He was great picking out really good defenders in the draft. However, he was lucky on Wilson, a bust on Irvin, and a mixed bag on drafting good Offensive players, especially OLinemen. I like Pete as a coach but he is not a god.

[obiken]

Slow walked into that one didnt I OBS!!!

[briwas101]

RD, we get it, you HATE Pete Carroll and even winning the Super Bowl was not enough to ease that hate.[i] You will claim that you don't hate him but come on, be HONEST with yourself, you go out of your way to find something, anything to complain about regarding him.

I mean, WE WON THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP DUDE why can you not accept that Pete knows what he is doing.

We don't need you to "point out" Pete's supposed character flaws. He who is without fault gets to cast the first stone, what you must think of yourself (infallible maybe?) because you are a chronic stone thrower.

Not cool

[HumanCockroach]

Eh, no one hits on every signing or pick, can't be done. Carroll and Schneider aren't flawless, but typically they get the "best" out of who they select. Wilson wasn't "luck", Irvin simply isn't a "bust" but lineman have been a serious area of weakness ( at least in the short term) not one to immediately say all of them are failures, because unlike many I see glimpses of truly great play from those that have been selected. I do wonder sometimes if they are constantly looking long term, down the road, which is FAR more difficult than viewing for this season or next. I don't think they are thinking about how this guy can help them "now" but 3-5 years down the road, which IMHO coincides with selections like Carpenter, Sweezy, Richardson, Irvin etc. The talent to them is more important, the uniqueness than how they performed in college.

They certainly gamble more than any other FO IMO and hit BIG far more often than any other FO I can think of. Roll down that roster, see how many truly exceptional players have been drafted or signed, and it's damn hard to argue. IMHO people also sometimes judge those players that are just "good" players a little unfairly, against the "great" players found by this FO and they get a a bum rap because of it. There are "good" NFL starting caliber players on this team, that WOULD start on other teams that would be considered so, but because they are ON a team stock full of all pro talent, they are "busts".

Not possible to have All Pros at every position, simply isn't, and it is the OTHER players that win SB's, the "glue" guys, guys LIKE Irvin, Smith,Carpenter,Sweezy and yeah guys like Bowie ( who without, who knows if Seattle wins the SB last year? You can't say) in general DEPTH ( and not just depth but QUALITY depth) is WHAT wins SB's, and Seattle JUST displayed that for anyone paying attention. Hopefully they have once again gambled and won with their moves, but to lambaste them for certain moves, or claim "busts" seems really short sighted to me. They have indeed made mistakes ( and they will continue to do so) but I'll wait to see if Sweezy takes another step forward, If Carpenter new found health helps create consistency to replicate his physical dominance repeatedly, if Okung and his glass ankles can make it through a season, and IF the loss of a depth guy like Bowie bites them in the arse.

[RiverDog]

I agree with all the comments subsequent to my last. Pete has proved himself to be one of the best active coaches in the league. We had a thread a while back that featured an article that placed him 6th, which I felt was two or three spots lower than he deserved. Belichek and Payton are the only ones that are clearly above him IMO.

He does have a blind spot when it comes to the OL. I don't know if he simply doesn't view it as a top priority (can't argue with his success if it is) or if he or his subordinates, ie Cable, are not as competent as they are in other areas of the team.

What caused me to get so rudely called out is that despite his success, I don't worship him, or any other living being as far as that goes. Like many coaches, Pete has the tendency to be a bit idealistic at times, and IMO his statement that implied a team requirement that all players stay in shape year round was one of those occasions where his idealism did not match reality. It's not the first time he's made statements like that.

Pete's not they only NFL coach that at times has a somewhat near sighted view of his team. Jim Harbaugh made a similar statement about his idealistic viewpoint of his team requirements, that his players be "beyond reproach in everything we do", an over the top, outrageously idealistic and ignorant statement that makes anything Pete say look like it was a quotation out of the Holy Bible.

[savvyman]

Bowie was waived because he showed up to OTA's fat and out of shape. The coaching staff talked to him about this. How did he respond? By showing up to Training Camp fat and out of shape. Then he proceeded to get injured on day 1 of training camp - maybe a contributing factor is he showed up fat and out of shape?

This documented behavior by Bowie is contrary to the "All In" Seahawk 24/7 lifestyle that Pete Carroll teaches and the vast majority of the players practice. Tolerate it and you will watch a Superbowl team go from first to worst quicker than anyone can imagine.

Pete and John did the right thing by sending Bowie down the road to a future opponent that would tolerate this behavior.

[HumanCockroach]

I do believe that Carroll and Co believe in setting examples each and every season, and IMHO Bowie was the "example" this year ( and honestly, had Carpenter shown up over weight again, he might well have been that guy this year) every season, they have either cut or traded a player that was a "lock" to make the team ( Houshyourdaddy, White, Jackson,Winfield etc) it is kind what they do, I think they are sending a message that the players better be ready from the word go, and preferential treatment, or an automatic ticket to the squad isn't something they just hand out to everyone.

[RiverDog]

I do believe that Carroll and Co believe in setting examples each and every season, and IMHO Bowie was the "example" this year ( and honestly, had Carpenter shown up over weight again, he might well have been that guy this year) every season, they have either cut or traded a player that was a "lock" to make the team ( Houshyourdaddy, White, Jackson,Winfield etc) it is kind what they do, I think they are sending a message that the players better be ready from the word go, and preferential treatment, or an automatic ticket to the squad isn't something they just hand out to everyone.

Money and original draft position makes a difference as to how much slack Pete, or any other NFL coach as far as that goes, is willing to give to a player. Otherwise, Carpenter would have been sent packing a long time ago. Thus his statement that implied a prerequisite of all players maintaining their conditioning throughout the offseason was hypocritical. A double standard does exist. I don't feel that this acknowledgement of a well known fact that applies to all NFL teams should be viewed as "hateful" or "throwing stones."

If Bowie was a #1 draft pick, is there any doubt that under the same circumstances, that he'd still be a member of the Seahawks? No way would Pete have picked Carpenter as his whipping boy.

[HumanCockroach]

I completely disagree with the money aspect of your statement, and Flynn, Houshyourdaddy,Curry etc kind of destroys that argument. This FO hasn't shown hesitancy in releasing or trading high draft picks with big money in the past ( which Carpenter wasn't no matter how hard people try to make him seem) I didn't say that they wouldn't give him more consideration, but the idea that draft position or money rules their decisions has been completely debunked to this point.

Hell, maybe they DID tell Carpenter that his shape would control his future, and that is why he showed up in the shape he did, Bailey obviously did not take that direction.