Is it too Early to Say That The Achilles Heel ?

[savvyman]

For the 2014 Seattle Seahawks will again be its Offensive Line?

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/08/08/refo-seahawks-broncos-preseason-wk-1/

Christine Michael graded very low - I understand not getting many yards behind a line that even Walter Payton would be fortunate to average 2.0 yards per carry - But Michael's pass blocking still needs a lot of work?

>>>>>Michael graded at -5.0 not only due to his lack of burst in the running game, he also fumbled a short pass. Bradley Roby managed to get his helmet on the ball and knock it free. Also, in his one pass blocking snap (that was not ruled out by a penalty) he allowed a pressure on an attempted cut block, against Quanterus Smith. On another negated pass blocking play, Michael was flagged for a chop block. On the only two passing plays he stayed in to block he gave up a pressure and a 15 yard penalty. All that hype might be staying quiet for a while longer now.<<<<<<<<<<<<<


And just like that Marshawn Lynch just got Leverage ........ However too little to late.

[c_hawkbob]

It's certainly not a revelation ...

[HumanCockroach]

I guess when I think of an "Achilles heel" I'm thinking of something that destroys something, which the line did not do last season, and since 3/5 ths of the starting line didn't make an appearance ( and that is only if you assume Britt wins the job) I would say it is early. Though the weakness there may play out, personally I would at least like to see what the starters can do before calling horrid.

[Anthony]

For the 2014 Seattle Seahawks will again be its Offensive Line?

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/08/08/refo-seahawks-broncos-preseason-wk-1/

Christine Michael graded very low - I understand not getting many yards behind a line that even Walter Payton would be fortunate to average 2.0 yards per carry - But Michael's pass blocking still needs a lot of work?

>>>>>Michael graded at -5.0 not only due to his lack of burst in the running game, he also fumbled a short pass. Bradley Roby managed to get his helmet on the ball and knock it free. Also, in his one pass blocking snap (that was not ruled out by a penalty) he allowed a pressure on an attempted cut block, against Quanterus Smith. On another negated pass blocking play, Michael was flagged for a chop block. On the only two passing plays he stayed in to block he gave up a pressure and a 15 yard penalty. All that hype might be staying quiet for a while longer now.<<<<<<<<<<<<<


And just like that Marshawn Lynch just got Leverage ........ However too little to late.

I agree with the blocking comment, disagree on burst it was obvious he fast and explosive.

[HumanCockroach]

I agree with Anthony regarding Michaels, his blocking was poor, but he certainly did appear fast and explosive to me. I really like the way he runs the ball, and that hasn't changed from last season, nor has my opinion of Ward changed, he's a plodder and I'm not sure why so many are enamored with him. Small I felt like did a really nice job blocking, but not sure if he can run or catch out of the backfield which makes me question ultimately whether he makes the team ( though PS could certainly be a spot for him).

I think Ward does end up being cut with the Hawks only carrying four backs into the GB game ( Lynch, Turbin, MichealsMichael, Coleman) with Small on the PS. ( I am starting to think Pryor makes this team as QB 3).....

It will be interesting to see how they handle the slew of receivers, TE's ( I think Heflet makes this team as a third TE) and backs with other position groups being thinned to keep an extra TE or Receiver, or QB.

[RiverDog]

I didn't watch Michael a lot. My main focus in the Denver game was the OL.

Yes, it is true that it's hard to complain about an Achilles heal on a team that won the SB. But I'm not satisfied with one Lombardi. I want more, and IMO what figures to stand in our way to a repeat is how well we can protect Russell Wilson, and this current mix of OL's ain't cutting it.

[HumanCockroach]

And my point was, you haven't seen it yet. That's all. Okung, and Unger improves that just by being on the field, and until I actually see the starting unit, I'm not stressed about how a rookie, 1 starter, and bunch of guys who might not be on the team performed against the Bronco's in game one of the pre season.,

[Hawk Sista]

While we have not seen the finished product and it is way too early to pull a panic button, one cannot argue that the o-line (despite players like Okung & Max) continues to hover in the mediocre range. That we won a championship was nice, but we lost some pieces. Role players, perhaps... Losing the big Russian & McQ will hurt us some in 2014...watch & see.

Particularly because we play in the division w/ arguably the best collective set of D-fronts in football. If we played in another division and got hot at the right time, that'd be one thing. Pluggin major holes on the o-line at this stage of the game with washed up dudes is another. I'm not trying to go all Henny Penny...just wish I felt more comfy w/ the line and its depth at this stage of camp. Just sayin'

[Vegaseahawk]

Pluggin major holes on the o-line at this stage of the game with washed up dudes is another.

Sis, who are you referring to as being washed up?

[Anthony]

While we have not seen the finished product and it is way too early to pull a panic button, one cannot argue that the o-line (despite players like Okung & Max) continues to hover in the mediocre range. That we won a championship was nice, but we lost some pieces. Role players, perhaps... Losing the big Russian & McQ will hurt us some in 2014...watch & see.

Particularly because we play in the division w/ arguably the best collective set of D-fronts in football. If we played in another division and got hot at the right time, that'd be one thing. Pluggin major holes on the o-line at this stage of the game with washed up dudes is another. I'm not trying to go all Henny Penny...just wish I felt more comfy w/ the line and its depth at this stage of camp. Just sayin'

Kind of agree, I have been worried about the o-line for over a year, and did not see any moves that made me feel better. Its just the first game but they looked bad. If they do not improve our QB will get crushed.

[NorthHawk]

It has been the weakest link on our team for a couple of years, but let's see how well they work together when the starters are in.
One pre-season game doesn't tell a whole lot, and even if Winston is close to being washed up, he could provide some experienced depth and help for Britt as he develops into what we all hope is a solid starter.

[HumanCockroach]

While we have not seen the finished product and it is way too early to pull a panic button, one cannot argue that the o-line (despite players like Okung & Max) continues to hover in the mediocre range. That we won a championship was nice, but we lost some pieces. Role players, perhaps... Losing the big Russian & McQ will hurt us some in 2014...watch & see.

Particularly because we play in the division w/ arguably the best collective set of D-fronts in football. If we played in another division and got hot at the right time, that'd be one thing. Pluggin major holes on the o-line at this stage of the game with washed up dudes is another. I'm not trying to go all Henny Penny...just wish I felt more comfy w/ the line and its depth at this stage of camp. Just sayin'

Sorry, I don't see the loss of Mcquistan as anything to even think about. The dude was a door knob, everyone took a turn spinning him. IF pass blocking is the area needing upgrading ( and I am assuming that is what we are talking about) the loss of McQuistan isn't a loss in the least. Giacomini might be a different thing all together, but that remains to be seen IMHO he wasn't the best pass blocker either, so until I actually see the players this team places as the starters, I'll reserve judgement, and certainly am not going to fret regarding a poor showing in the first pre season game....

As for the D-lines in this division, I wholeheartedly agree, they from top to bottom ARE the best, and with acknowledging that, I AM willing to acknowledge that expecting dominant offensive line play, is silly.A LOT of these players are GOOD lineman that get beat, and it wouldn't matter if we had the BEST line in football, they would STILL get beat ( you know kind of like Seattle kept beating the Niners line , one that is considered one of, if not the best in the league), I often wonder if anyone on this board takes that into account when lambasting this line, the players on it, and the coaching staff, because honestly it doesn't seem as if that thought is anywhere close to being considered IMHO.

The quality of the opponents matters, and there is obviously some quality defensive lines in this division, that isn't acknowledged or at least taken into account when judging the overall talent on the O-line on this team.

[Hawktawk]

The starting O line got abused in the super bowl, especially in the running game. But RW had to run for his life a few times and still made lots of plays. Lynch has sort of been the same, making holes where there are none. Yes we play in a tough division. No we do not have a good offensive line. Micheal had absolutely no chance on a few plays last Thursday, much like Lynch in the Super Bowl. If this line doesn't improve its one blindside hit on Wilson from being a 7-9 also ran season..

[RiverDog]

And my point was, you haven't seen it yet. That's all. Okung, and Unger improves that just by being on the field, and until I actually see the starting unit, I'm not stressed about how a rookie, 1 starter, and bunch of guys who might not be on the team performed against the Bronco's in game one of the pre season.,

Agreed, and we didn't see the new Carpenter, either. But I'm not so naïve to think that all Okung and Unger have to do is walk on the field and our OL performance goes through some sort of genesis and becomes the Hogs of the 1980's Redskins, either. Even when healthy, neither played up to their Pro Bowl capabilities last season.

As far as being "stressed out", I'm not. Hell, I haven't even watched the 2nd half of the Broncos game yet, and I do realize that we're still a long ways from Sept. 4th. I'm simply looking for some improvement, or at the very least replace what we lost in Breuno at RT, and didn't see any.

To answer the OP, it's fair to say that the OL is our Achilles heel as that was the weakest area of our team last season and there's no evidence as of yet that anything has changed.

[HumanCockroach]

The starting O line got abused in the super bowl, especially in the running game. But RW had to run for his life a few times and still made lots of plays. Lynch has sort of been the same, making holes where there are none. Yes we play in a tough division. No we do not have a good offensive line. Micheal had absolutely no chance on a few plays last Thursday, much like Lynch in the Super Bowl. If this line doesn't improve its one blindside hit on Wilson from being a 7-9 also ran season..

What? You might want to rewatch that game. Wilson was seldom pressured, ( 6 QB hurries, 5 on Wilson) never hit ( 0 QB hits) and never sacked. True the ground game floundered as that was indeed their game plan ( 8 in the box the entire game) but all in all, that may have been one of the best performances by that line all season, and perhaps the last three seasons in regards to keeping the QB clean.

Getting tired of that "fire" stuff. It isn't accurate to claim poor pass blocking in the SB by any stretch of the imagination. Any line that can run the football to the effect that Seattle did last year is a "good" line, you can bemoan the pass protection if you would like, and that is an area that should improve, but the silliness of claiming Seattle has a bad line is getting old. You simply do NOT win a SB with a "bad" line, period.

[HumanCockroach]

And my point was, you haven't seen it yet. That's all. Okung, and Unger improves that just by being on the field, and until I actually see the starting unit, I'm not stressed about how a rookie, 1 starter, and bunch of guys who might not be on the team performed against the Bronco's in game one of the pre season.,

Agreed, and we didn't see the new Carpenter, either. But I'm not so naïve to think that all Okung and Unger have to do is walk on the field and our OL performance goes through some sort of genesis and becomes the Hogs of the 1980's Redskins, either. Even when healthy, neither played up to their Pro Bowl capabilities last season.

As far as being "stressed out", I'm not. Hell, I haven't even watched the 2nd half of the Broncos game yet, and I do realize that we're still a long ways from Sept. 4th. I'm simply looking for some improvement, or at the very least replace what we lost in Breuno at RT, and didn't see any.

To answer the OP, it's fair to say that the OL is our Achilles heel as that was the weakest area of our team last season and there's no evidence as of yet that anything has changed.

I would point out that NEITHER Unger or Okung were "healthy" last year both had nagging season long injuries, or did you think they had surgeries for the fun of it during the off season? Unger was an All Pro 2 years ago ( when healthy) and I would say it's a stretch to claim when healthy Okung isn't a top tier LT problem is he is seldom healthy. I get questioning whether they can remain healthy, but what they can do when they are? I simply don't get that at all.

[NorthHawk]

The concerns are at RT, G, and filling in for the annual Okung injury for a half dozen games.
I like Jeanpierre as a backup Center - I actually think he is solid and might be able to start on some other team.
The rest of the backups are the question marks.

If Winston can still play, that's an upgrade from last year's depth and if Bailey develops on schedule, he can play both G and T, but do we have a serviceable LT as backup?
Obviously whoever is slotted to be the LT backup won't be as good as Okung, but I still have nightmares about McQuistan playing there last year.
Given Okung's history of missing games, I think it's more than prudent to work someone solely at LT while we can so he will be as ready as possible during the year.

[Bird Droppings]

Most of this thread is premature blather.

The sample is one practice game .... and whatever is coming out of practices.

Nanook, JeanPierre did not grade out well against Denver. It now appears Schilling is going to be given a serious opportunity to take his spot as backup at center, and he is much more familiar with the guard position (maybe RG, maype not).

Giacommini was one of my favorite Hawks because he set a tone. I think they picked Britt because he is loaded with that "attitude".

For the moment, please consider that when they signed Winston they gave him the full media press usually reserved for good skill position vets. There is something to that ... a reason ... whether you like it or not. It happened just as Bowie packed it in ... did they know something the day before they signed Winston? Probably.

They brought in Wade Smith because they read my post that Carpenter will not start against the Packers ... if he is on the team at all.

If you are prepared to use your eyes and keep track, spend time watching Gilliam at LT against the Chargers. The Hawks are hanging some hope on him, and I don't think it is becaue they are dissing Bailey. I believe they are looking at Bailey as a permanent left guard.

Then, again, Hauptman is being touted as solid.

So, you can all whine and look at the back of your foot and think what happens when that tendon doesn't work ... it will be a tender tendency to remind you that Roach has maintained the most sensible position in this thread: You don't know Hawk Squat from one preseason game with only one oline starter in place.

zoom

[c_hawkbob]

Premature blather? It's been 3 years a problem now, just when is it gonna mature enough to talk about in your estimation?

[NorthHawk]

"
Nanook, JeanPierre did not grade out well against Denver. It now appears Schilling is going to be given a serious opportunity to take his spot as backup at center, and he is much more familiar with the guard position (maybe RG, maype not)."

When Jeanpierre had to go in during the season last year, the OL didn't take much of a hit. For a backup center, that's all you can ask regardless of his "grade". The QB/C communication worked well, there were minimal fumbled snaps or bad shotgun snaps - if any, and the OL adjusted to not having Unger there pretty well.
I think Center on our team has what might be the best depth on the OL, if not the team.

[HumanCockroach]

"
Nanook, JeanPierre did not grade out well against Denver. It now appears Schilling is going to be given a serious opportunity to take his spot as backup at center, and he is much more familiar with the guard position (maybe RG, maype not)."

When Jeanpierre had to go in during the season last year, the OL didn't take much of a hit. For a backup center, that's all you can ask regardless of his "grade". The QB/C communication worked well, there were minimal fumbled snaps or bad shotgun snaps - if any, and the OL adjusted to not having Unger there pretty well.
I think Center on our team has what might be the best depth on the OL, if not the team.

Isn't the center responsible for adjusting blocking assignments based on what he sees? Unger does, so I'm not sure with all the worrying about pass protection this board finds so lacking while those guys were gone to be merely bobbled exchanges equates to good or bad center play..... what makes Unger an All Pro isn't his dominating physical prowess, or Spencer would still be here blowing protections, there's a LOT more to line play than simply lining up and snapping the ball. Not saying he was horrible or anything, but to dismiss the problems you guys so adamantly obsess over as simply a guards fault or a tackles fault because the ran by him, is pretty silly. Constant checks and changes are made every snap, by the center, and if he misses what the defense is doing, it makes them all look bad.

[HumanCockroach]

Premature blather? It's been 3 years a problem now, just when is it gonna mature enough to talk about in your estimation?

I think he is expressing the worry over a line that had 1 probable starter ( Sweezy) and 1 possible starter ( Britt) in preseason game 1. Maybe at least wait until you see the starting line ON the field before worrying our nails to the quick. They obviously recognised a need to upgrade, and have made moves, wouldn't it behoove people to see if the moves actually WORK prior to losing it over the back ups play in a game in pre season? Just pointing out that while it may be the weakest unit, no ONE here can say that with ANY certainty before seeing them actually PLAY a couple downs can they? I'm certainly going to at the very least see how th starters perform before getting my BVD's in a bind.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Sure, the O-Line is our weakest link and we all know the line out only being as strong as your weakest link. The F/O didn't draft any O-Linemen at the top of the draft and I was disappointed we didn't because I hate seeing RW run for his life. How much better could our offense be with a decent O-Line???

I guess it will take Russell missing some games due to injury before the F/O gets serious about upgrading the line.

[HumanCockroach]

Here I was thinking that 2 of the O-line Players were drafted in the first round and 2 Additional starters were drafted in the second. Maybe I'm remembering wrong? I wasn't aware that Britt, Okung, Unger and Carpenter were late round selections. The idea that O-lineman come in and dominate season 1 is a misperception and simply put wrong. Anyone expecting Mathews or ANY other lineman to dominate from day one do NOT have to look very hard to see how foolish that thought is, of course they would need to WANT to look ( which they won't, because it would completely blow up that theory).

This topic has been beat to death, and it remains the same, WANTING no one to ever touch your QB is great and all, but for those of us that live in the real world, it is NOT in the least REALISTIC. You guys want moves? They make moves, but somehow, because it isn't YOUR moves, it's wrong. Play the "weakest" link game all you guys want, the truth is that "weakest" link was GOOD enough to WIN the SB, which in my book is at least "adequate" if not pretty damn good.

That is like saying a heavy gun ship isn't any damn good because one of it's guns is firing a hair slower than the rest. LOL. Still plenty of firepower to get the job done, and honestly, we haven't seen that gun fire yet.

[Hawktawk]

The starting O line got abused in the super bowl, especially in the running game. But RW had to run for his life a few times and still made lots of plays. Lynch has sort of been the same, making holes where there are none. Yes we play in a tough division. No we do not have a good offensive line. Micheal had absolutely no chance on a few plays last Thursday, much like Lynch in the Super Bowl. If this line doesn't improve its one blindside hit on Wilson from being a 7-9 also ran season..

What? You might want to rewatch that game. Wilson was seldom pressured, ( 6 QB hurries, 5 on Wilson) never hit ( 0 QB hits) and never sacked. True the ground game floundered as that was indeed their game plan ( 8 in the box the entire game) but all in all, that may have been one of the best performances by that line all season, and perhaps the last three seasons in regards to keeping the QB clean.

Getting tired of that "fire" stuff. It isn't accurate to claim poor pass blocking in the SB by any stretch of the imagination. Any line that can run the football to the effect that Seattle did last year is a "good" line, you can bemoan the pass protection if you would like, and that is an area that should improve, but the silliness of claiming Seattle has a bad line is getting old. You simply do NOT win a SB with a "bad" line, period.

Yeah you can win the Super bowl with one bad unit maybe two. Be it O line,D line, QB, Recievers, Backs, well nobody has a stable of all pros everywhere.

I watched the game plenty of times. Max unger was getting abused by Pot Roast. Okung drew several penalties. Plays had total protection breakdowns but Wilson came out unscathed.The botched throwback play was a jealbreak everyone missed their block.Wilson saved a huge loss because of his world class athleticism and ability to throw on the run.

Bill Polian was on NFL Network shortly after the game and was impressed with how well Wilson played with a bad performance by the line. Polian called Unger a "Big Name" but a guy who didn't make many plays.
Id sure like to see it better.

[HumanCockroach]

What ever, I'm done with the panic, fire in the theatre stuff. If they can't block ( you know when the actual starters are playing) I'll worry then, believe whatever your heart desires. I'm done with this rubbish. The line is fine, will be fine, and was fine ( notice I didn't go to the extreme as seems many here live to do, I said fine, not great, not outstanding etc. Because overstating something ie "they suck" serves no purpose what so ever). They were playing backups at three positions for long periods of time, had injured starters for long periods of time, and did indeed keep Wilson "clean" or as "clean" as ANYONE has any reasonable justification to expect in the SB ( by the way Polian also said Wilson wasn't very good, so I guess if you want to hitch your wagon to that guy, be my guest, I'm not going to though).

LMAO bunch of wantabe GM's professing to know more about something than the guys that just ochestrated the FIRST SB victory in franchise history a few short months ago. SMDH. I'll personally WAIT to see the personel actually ON the field together before making any judgements on whether they have improved, but have at it, claim to know how they will perform this season based on an injury riddled last season, and fear.

[HumanCockroach]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... penalties/

just a little something to mull over ( play after play huh?) 2 Penalties, 1 hold, 1 false start. Something tells me your watching it over and over again might just be "shaded" a bit in this conversation. Wilson was pressured 5 times, it doesn't matter what youthought you saw with him bailing the line out, the fact is, that number is all inclusive, let me know if you need me to provide the link for those numbers as well......


Damn the internet! LOL

[Anthony]

Premature blather? It's been 3 years a problem now, just when is it gonna mature enough to talk about in your estimation?

Agreed, it has been a problem for some time and only the skills of Rw and ML have allowed us to succeed despite it.

[Anthony]

Sure, the O-Line is our weakest link and we all know the line out only being as strong as your weakest link. The F/O didn't draft any O-Linemen at the top of the draft and I was disappointed we didn't because I hate seeing RW run for his life. How much better could our offense be with a decent O-Line???

I guess it will take Russell missing some games due to injury before the F/O gets serious about upgrading the line.

Assuming they do not say next mad up and think Pryor can just take over and not miss a beat, which would be complete BS. I hate to say it but it is possible, though unlikely that they feel they can win with any QB or RB so why waste time on the line. Of course realize this is ore frustration talking then me really thinking this. And I know its just preseason game 1 and all that but 3 years now.

[Anthony]

Here I was thinking that 2 of the O-line Players were drafted in the first round and 2 Additional starters were drafted in the second. Maybe I'm remembering wrong? I wasn't aware that Britt, Okung, Unger and Carpenter were late round selections. The idea that O-lineman come in and dominate season 1 is a misperception and simply put wrong. Anyone expecting Mathews or ANY other lineman to dominate from day one do NOT have to look very hard to see how foolish that thought is, of course they would need to WANT to look ( which they won't, because it would completely blow up that theory).

This topic has been beat to death, and it remains the same, WANTING no one to ever touch your QB is great and all, but for those of us that live in the real world, it is NOT in the least REALISTIC. You guys want moves? They make moves, but somehow, because it isn't YOUR moves, it's wrong. Play the "weakest" link game all you guys want, the truth is that "weakest" link was GOOD enough to WIN the SB, which in my book is at least "adequate" if not pretty damn good.

That is like saying a heavy gun ship isn't any damn good because one of it's guns is firing a hair slower than the rest. LOL. Still plenty of firepower to get the job done, and honestly, we haven't seen that gun fire yet.

I can agree with your sentiment but is it to much to ask for some improvement

2011 Run ranking 19 Pass ranking 24
2012 run ranking 4 pass 20th
2013 run ranking 9th pass 32

I mean run blocking we got better at, pass blocking we got worse and at our best we were still in the bottom third of the league. Is it to much to ask for say 15th? Over the last 3 years we have avg 25th in pass blocking, just get to 15th and I would be happy. Our weakest link was good enough to win the SB thanks to ML and RW being able to make up for their lack of getting the job done all year, we really do not want to keep trying that train to often or we will loose one of them and if it is Rw we are done. Not asking for a lot just get to middle of the pack around 15th. Imagine what RW could do wit a pass blocking o-line ranked 15th? Imagine how much better we would be if our o-line was just avg in pass blocking.

[Zorn76]

Preseason Blows.

[NorthHawk]

We keep talking about how good the run game is and how it has improved.
How much of that is Lynch and his ability to set up blocks, break tackles, and will himself an extra yard or more when seemingly stopped?
I think without him our run ranking would have been significantly impacted, and our success on Offense limited.

[HumanCockroach]

Here I was thinking that 2 of the O-line Players were drafted in the first round and 2 Additional starters were drafted in the second. Maybe I'm remembering wrong? I wasn't aware that Britt, Okung, Unger and Carpenter were late round selections. The idea that O-lineman come in and dominate season 1 is a misperception and simply put wrong. Anyone expecting Mathews or ANY other lineman to dominate from day one do NOT have to look very hard to see how foolish that thought is, of course they would need to WANT to look ( which they won't, because it would completely blow up that theory).

This topic has been beat to death, and it remains the same, WANTING no one to ever touch your QB is great and all, but for those of us that live in the real world, it is NOT in the least REALISTIC. You guys want moves? They make moves, but somehow, because it isn't YOUR moves, it's wrong. Play the "weakest" link game all you guys want, the truth is that "weakest" link was GOOD enough to WIN the SB, which in my book is at least "adequate" if not pretty damn good.

That is like saying a heavy gun ship isn't any damn good because one of it's guns is firing a hair slower than the rest. LOL. Still plenty of firepower to get the job done, and honestly, we haven't seen that gun fire yet.

I can agree with your sentiment but is it to much to ask for some improvement

2011 Run ranking 19 Pass ranking 24
2012 run ranking 4 pass 20th
2013 run ranking 9th pass 32

I mean run blocking we got better at, pass blocking we got worse and at our best we were still in the bottom third of the league. Is it to much to ask for say 15th? Over the last 3 years we have avg 25th in pass blocking, just get to 15th and I would be happy. Our weakest link was good enough to win the SB thanks to ML and RW being able to make up for their lack of getting the job done all year, we really do not want to keep trying that train to often or we will loose one of them and if it is Rw we are done. Not asking for a lot just get to middle of the pack around 15th. Imagine what RW could do wit a pass blocking o-line ranked 15th? Imagine how much better we would be if our o-line was just avg in pass blocking.

No, it isn't to much to ask. Is it to much to ask to wait to SEE the players on the field before claiming the line isn't any good though? The line wasn't ON the field last week, so all of this chatter, has nothing to do with how well they will do this season in pass blocking. The "pass" ranking is also skewed, and I have provided that ranking before.

Edit: also, we did NOT see our offensive line last season at full strength for pretty much the ENTIRE year, so this claim to their horrid play seems to me at least to be a HUGE stretch. Unger,Giacomini,Okung ALL missed significant time, Unger and Okung played with injuries the entire season, so until I see a healthy line ON the field, I reserve judgement in regards to their ability ( after all they HAVE been all pros and pro bowlers) . Kind of funny to me when addressing others about Seattle's ability to deal with injuries the line health is one of the first things people point out, but in Seattle those injuries are summarily dismissed.

[NorthHawk]

We didn't do very well when both Okung and Giacomini were out and they had McQuistan at LT.
I'm hoping the depth has been improved as we are almost certain to not have Okung for some games if history is any indication.
Unger seems to be having some injury issues as his career progresses, too so, yes the OL is a big concern.

We'll see how things progress during TC and maybe they will all get it together and be an effective group, but that usually takes a couple of years together for it to work well.

[Anthony]

Here I was thinking that 2 of the O-line Players were drafted in the first round and 2 Additional starters were drafted in the second. Maybe I'm remembering wrong? I wasn't aware that Britt, Okung, Unger and Carpenter were late round selections. The idea that O-lineman come in and dominate season 1 is a misperception and simply put wrong. Anyone expecting Mathews or ANY other lineman to dominate from day one do NOT have to look very hard to see how foolish that thought is, of course they would need to WANT to look ( which they won't, because it would completely blow up that theory).

This topic has been beat to death, and it remains the same, WANTING no one to ever touch your QB is great and all, but for those of us that live in the real world, it is NOT in the least REALISTIC. You guys want moves? They make moves, but somehow, because it isn't YOUR moves, it's wrong. Play the "weakest" link game all you guys want, the truth is that "weakest" link was GOOD enough to WIN the SB, which in my book is at least "adequate" if not pretty damn good.

That is like saying a heavy gun ship isn't any damn good because one of it's guns is firing a hair slower than the rest. LOL. Still plenty of firepower to get the job done, and honestly, we haven't seen that gun fire yet.

I can agree with your sentiment but is it to much to ask for some improvement

2011 Run ranking 19 Pass ranking 24
2012 run ranking 4 pass 20th
2013 run ranking 9th pass 32

I mean run blocking we got better at, pass blocking we got worse and at our best we were still in the bottom third of the league. Is it to much to ask for say 15th? Over the last 3 years we have avg 25th in pass blocking, just get to 15th and I would be happy. Our weakest link was good enough to win the SB thanks to ML and RW being able to make up for their lack of getting the job done all year, we really do not want to keep trying that train to often or we will loose one of them and if it is Rw we are done. Not asking for a lot just get to middle of the pack around 15th. Imagine what RW could do wit a pass blocking o-line ranked 15th? Imagine how much better we would be if our o-line was just avg in pass blocking.

No, it isn't to much to ask. Is it to much to ask to wait to SEE the players on the field before claiming the line isn't any good though? The line wasn't ON the field last week, so all of this chatter, has nothing to do with how well they will do this season in pass blocking. The "pass" ranking is also skewed, and I have provided that ranking before.

Edit: also, we did NOT see our offensive line last season at full strength for pretty much the ENTIRE year, so this claim to their horrid play seems to me at least to be a HUGE stretch. Unger,Giacomini,Okung ALL missed significant time, Unger and Okung played with injuries the entire season, so until I see a healthy line ON the field, I reserve judgement in regards to their ability ( after all they HAVE been all pros and pro bowlers) . Kind of funny to me when addressing others about Seattle's ability to deal with injuries the line health is one of the first things people point out, but in Seattle those injuries are summarily dismissed.

That's because ti has been a 3 year problem at some point the injury excuse has to go away, if over 3 years they cannot stay healthy then that is another issue. I mean 1 year yeah everything you say is true, 2 years maybe but 3 we have a problem. Even if we get all our starters and the line looks good I have very little confidence they can stay healthy and therefore little the o-line can maintain. And that is not a snap judgment but a by product of 3 years.

Another thing to consider is RW, hmm he wants to be the best, he is on a team that does not throw much, with an awful o-line. He has shown he can take pedestrian Wr and make them look great behind an awful o-line with limited chances, If we continue to be a low pass team with an awful o-line why would he stay. Mind you the o-line is the bigger issue, if you just improve that he gets about 50-60 more passes(between forced runs, sacks, and throw a ways, bad passes due to being hit etc. realizing not all of that will translates but about 50% will) and now he is a 4k passer. The o-line issues are bigger than people think and again its been an issue for 3 years.

[HumanCockroach]

I brought up that health of that line is a viable question, however, you seem to be having some selective memory in regards to who was starting and where they were starting along that line, as well as who was healthy and who wasn't. Okung has had in the past injury problems, period, Unger has three years ago, Carpenter has, I get the idea about questioning the ability to STAY healthy, but that isn't what is being discussed in this thread. It is the "quality" of that line, which ISN'T the same as the "health" of that line. It's Jim dandy to want all all pros along the line, with all pros backing them up, it just isn't POSSIBLE, and as such you deal with and cope with what is on hand, what can be purchased, and work from their. The idea that they haven't worked on that line in the last three years is laughable, and simply not acknowledging what has been drafted, signed and done.

Again, I'm not "happy" with what the health has been, nor the performance, however, I recognise what they have indeed been attempting to do, how they are going about it and more importantly WHY they are going about it the way they are. People that look deeper can SEE the moves, and SEE the talent and SEE what they are attempting to do ( whether they have been successful or not is irrelevant to the discussion at hand). They are attempting to BUILD a line, as opposed to sacrificing guys like Wilson, Sherman, Thomas, Lynch, Harvin, Baldwin, Wagner, Wright, Avril so they can pay through the nose to replace them.

It's fine to say you want the line improved, I do as well, however there IS a plan for doing so, and it is silly to argue against said plan considering the results. I would NOT be surprised in the least to see Seattle move up in the next two drafts to get the RIGHT lineman, but the crux of the matter is maybe, just maybe that lineman hasn't been either available to them, or he simply hasn't BEEN there in the first place. The performance across the BOARD for young lineman is pathetic, and as I pointed out, you simply don't have to look very hard to see it.

[RiverDog]

And my point was, you haven't seen it yet. That's all. Okung, and Unger improves that just by being on the field, and until I actually see the starting unit, I'm not stressed about how a rookie, 1 starter, and bunch of guys who might not be on the team performed against the Bronco's in game one of the pre season.,

Agreed, and we didn't see the new Carpenter, either. But I'm not so naïve to think that all Okung and Unger have to do is walk on the field and our OL performance goes through some sort of genesis and becomes the Hogs of the 1980's Redskins, either. Even when healthy, neither played up to their Pro Bowl capabilities last season.

As far as being "stressed out", I'm not. Hell, I haven't even watched the 2nd half of the Broncos game yet, and I do realize that we're still a long ways from Sept. 4th. I'm simply looking for some improvement, or at the very least replace what we lost in Breuno at RT, and didn't see any.

To answer the OP, it's fair to say that the OL is our Achilles heel as that was the weakest area of our team last season and there's no evidence as of yet that anything has changed.

I would point out that NEITHER Unger or Okung were "healthy" last year both had nagging season long injuries, or did you think they had surgeries for the fun of it during the off season? Unger was an All Pro 2 years ago ( when healthy) and I would say it's a stretch to claim when healthy Okung isn't a top tier LT problem is he is seldom healthy. I get questioning whether they can remain healthy, but what they can do when they are? I simply don't get that at all.

You don't know how much those "nagging injuries" affected their play. What is indisputable is that even when they were healthy enough to be on the field, their play was well below what anyone would expect from a Pro Bowl quality player. The fact that they may have been suffering from nagging, season long injuries doesn't give me the amount of confidence it apparently gives you as all it takes to float your boat is for them to suit up. How in the heck do you know that their surgeries are going to be the magic wand that re-invents them into the players they once were?

And Bird, C-bob is right. We ain't just fussin' because a couple of newbies aren't cutting the mustard in the first preseason game. This is a chronic Seahawk problem, common to three head coaches, that has been with us ever since our 2005 SB run when we lost Hutch, Tobeck retired, and Walt started showing his age, and every season, we add to our long list of hopefuls that don't work out, from Locklear to Spencer to Carpenter to Moffitt. It's the same old chit, different names. Is Britt the next on the list of disappointments?...Or does he break the trend?

[NorthHawk]

I brought up that health of that line is a viable question, however, you seem to be having some selective memory in regards to who was starting and where they were starting along that line, as well as who was healthy and who wasn't. Okung has had in the past injury problems, period, Unger has three years ago, Carpenter has, I get the idea about questioning the ability to STAY healthy, but that isn't what is being discussed in this thread. It is the "quality" of that line, which ISN'T the same as the "health" of that line. It's Jim dandy to want all all pros along the line, with all pros backing them up, it just isn't POSSIBLE, and as such you deal with and cope with what is on hand, what can be purchased, and work from their. The idea that they haven't worked on that line in the last three years is laughable, and simply not acknowledging what has been drafted, signed and done.

Again, I'm not "happy" with what the health has been, nor the performance, however, I recognise what they have indeed been attempting to do, how they are going about it and more importantly WHY they are going about it the way they are. People that look deeper can SEE the moves, and SEE the talent and SEE what they are attempting to do ( whether they have been successful or not is irrelevant to the discussion at hand). They are attempting to BUILD a line, as opposed to sacrificing guys like Wilson, Sherman, Thomas, Lynch, Harvin, Baldwin, Wagner, Wright, Avril so they can pay through the nose to replace them.

It's fine to say you want the line improved, I do as well, however there IS a plan for doing so, and it is silly to argue against said plan considering the results. I would NOT be surprised in the least to see Seattle move up in the next two drafts to get the RIGHT lineman, but the crux of the matter is maybe, just maybe that lineman hasn't been either available to them, or he simply hasn't BEEN there in the first place. The performance across the BOARD for young lineman is pathetic, and as I pointed out, you simply don't have to look very hard to see it.

So what is the plan? Maybe if we knew, this topic could be closed.
As it stands now, many of us are wondering what they are doing as it seems (at least to me) to be a haphazard or maybe a plug the leak approach to building the OL.

[HumanCockroach]

And NEITHER do YOU. What I DO know is that BEFORE those injuries, they were INDEED PRO BOWL and ALL PRO caliber players. So either you are claiming they regressed OR they simply didn't care, which is it? You seem to be playing BOTH sides of the fence on this one , either they were deserving the year before and magically went in the tank ( according to you and those sharing like minded views) OR the injuries actually had something to do with it. WHICH is it going to be?

I'm fully aware that some people can't be happy unless they are B!tching about something, but you are taking it to another level on this one, you haven't SEEN them play a pre season game, not ONE damn snap, and they are worthless.

I've now said THREE times on this thread alone, that I personally am NOT happy with the play from last season, and WANT it to improve, the DIFFERENCE is I will NOT lambaste any player I don't actually SEE where as many look BACKWARDS to justify their position, I look at the problem at HAND and in the FUTURE. You're basing an assessment on past data that may or MAY NOT be the case moving forward. There is ZERO way for you to accurately predict health, improvement or growth on this line, ZERO. Your claiming to "know" things you DON'T and questioning others ( like me, but not only me) that continue to say they "don't know" because of crap that happened last season or the season before.

Sweezy might be worthless, again, he MIGHT become the HOF guard Wilson predicts him to be, Okung might get injured again, then again he MIGHT stay healthy all year and dominate, Unger might continue to produce at a lower level, then again he MIGHT become the ALL PRO he has been in the past, Carpenter might continue to tease with his ability, then again he MIGHT have put it together, and MIGHT be fully healthy, Britt might be rubishrubbish, then again he MIGHT turn out to be another steal by the Seahawks...... MIGHT,MIGHT,MIGHT..... I don't know which way that ball is going to bounce, but my freinds neither do ANY of you. So I'll WAIT to see which one happens with each and every player, and trust that the people who built this Championship team MIGHT actually have a BETTER idea on HOW to do it, than a bunch of over reacting fans on a message board.

[HumanCockroach]

I brought up that health of that line is a viable question, however, you seem to be having some selective memory in regards to who was starting and where they were starting along that line, as well as who was healthy and who wasn't. Okung has had in the past injury problems, period, Unger has three years ago, Carpenter has, I get the idea about questioning the ability to STAY healthy, but that isn't what is being discussed in this thread. It is the "quality" of that line, which ISN'T the same as the "health" of that line. It's Jim dandy to want all all pros along the line, with all pros backing them up, it just isn't POSSIBLE, and as such you deal with and cope with what is on hand, what can be purchased, and work from their. The idea that they haven't worked on that line in the last three years is laughable, and simply not acknowledging what has been drafted, signed and done.

Again, I'm not "happy" with what the health has been, nor the performance, however, I recognise what they have indeed been attempting to do, how they are going about it and more importantly WHY they are going about it the way they are. People that look deeper can SEE the moves, and SEE the talent and SEE what they are attempting to do ( whether they have been successful or not is irrelevant to the discussion at hand). They are attempting to BUILD a line, as opposed to sacrificing guys like Wilson, Sherman, Thomas, Lynch, Harvin, Baldwin, Wagner, Wright, Avril so they can pay through the nose to replace them.

It's fine to say you want the line improved, I do as well, however there IS a plan for doing so, and it is silly to argue against said plan considering the results. I would NOT be surprised in the least to see Seattle move up in the next two drafts to get the RIGHT lineman, but the crux of the matter is maybe, just maybe that lineman hasn't been either available to them, or he simply hasn't BEEN there in the first place. The performance across the BOARD for young lineman is pathetic, and as I pointed out, you simply don't have to look very hard to see it.

So what is the plan? Maybe if we knew, this topic could be closed.
As it stands now, many of us are wondering what they are doing as it seems (at least to me) to be a haphazard or maybe a plug the leak approach to building the OL.

LOL. The "plan" is right there in the response, it is to DRAFT and DEVELOPE THEIR kind of players, to "make" them into what "they" want, not what a bunch of nervous nancies want on message boards. How many of those players on that line are big ticket FA mediocre players? None is it? They draft THEIR players, grade THEIR players differently from the rest of the NFL, have won a CHAMPIONSHIP with THEIR players, and have done so in an insanely short amount of time, and STILL you all quiblle like they were coming off a 4-12 season. They have NOT been shy about their plans, have spoken about it, discussed it, made that plan clear to all of you, so if you don't grasp it at this point, I'm not entirely sure how to help you all understand it.

It cracks me up, it really does, because if they HAD followed all of the "advise" this board has offered on the "upgrade" of the line, their would be a TON of bloated contracts on this roster, performing at a mediocre level, and NO Sherman, or Thomas, or WILSON or Lynch or some other VALUABLE, KEY cocontributor on this team, and you would all be up in arms about losing THEM instead of the perceived weakness of a line that has yet to take the field. Would you all rather have an overpriced line but NO Wilson? How about an overpriced line and NO defense? The lack of understanding of the BASIC principal, that to GET a high priced player, you have to GIVE a high priced player up, absolutely is crazy to me.