The Question Has To Be Asked - Is Percy Harvin....

[savvyman]

Some Kind of Head Case?

Here are the comments from Pete Carroll at today's press conference regarding Harvin:

Percy Harvin playing this season seems more and more unlikely. He won’t practice this week. He is still rehabbing in Seattle. He has not had an MRI or any procedures since we last saw him (he had an MRI and some fluid drained after the last time he was sore). When asked if he believes Harvin will play again this season, Carroll said, “We’ll figure that out.”

Question How come Percy is not with the team?

Question - Why have there been all of this Mystery as to the questions of 'Where's is Percy Harvin and what exactly is the prognosis of his current condition" over the past few weeks?

Why was Percy so anxious to get back for the Minnesota game and let the coaches know all week and during the game that he was "ready" yet since that game it seems that Pete is always uncomfortable answering any questions as to Percy's condition and his whereabouts?

Has he even been with the team over the past 3-4 weeks?

Back to the beginning question- Is Percy Harvin a head case?

Does anyone have any answers?

[Anthony]

I did not her any of that, all I heard was he will not practice and is questionable for the game. At least that is what he said this morning.

[Hawk Sista]

I heard Pete - the way he delivered the message certainly made me think there is waaaay more to the story. I am not sure if it's physical, mental/emotional or dome other deal we don't know about. In short.... Your instincts that something is fishy are in line w/ mine.

[Vegaseahawk]

Theres something not right, is there?

[savvyman]

The current Harvin Situation is fishy or Smoky - either way - from what little there is too work with - something smells here.

Check out Pete's comments to ESPN today on his morning show regarding Harvin:

— Carroll said of WR Percy Harvin that it’s “an unknown situation again” and that “we don’t have any updates” and that they will have to wait until Wednesday again to know if he is going to be able to practice.

Whenever the topic of Harvin is brought up over the past 3 weeks, you can tell that Pete would willingly choose to have his nuts being squeezed by a plumbers pipe wrench rather than talk any longer about the Percy Harvin situation.

This Sunday's game is the first Playoff game - Percy owes it to the team, the organization and the fans to be playing this weekend under almost any circumstances - Five weeks ago he blazed around the field showing excellent speed against his former team - he suffered no new injury in that game - now 5 weeks later he still is not fit for duty? People heal from broken bones in 5-6 weeks.

Why hasn't Percy Harvin undergone another MRI since the Viking Game? For an "Injury" that is keeping him out of action you would think that an MRI would be the standard step in treatment?

Something appears to not be right in the land of Harvin.

[RiverDog]

Some Kind of Head Case?

Here are the comments from Pete Carroll at today's press conference regarding Harvin:

Percy Harvin playing this season seems more and more unlikely. He won’t practice this week. He is still rehabbing in Seattle. He has not had an MRI or any procedures since we last saw him (he had an MRI and some fluid drained after the last time he was sore). When asked if he believes Harvin will play again this season, Carroll said, “We’ll figure that out.”

Question How come Percy is not with the team?

Question - Why have there been all of this Mystery as to the questions of 'Where's is Percy Harvin and what exactly is the prognosis of his current condition" over the past few weeks?

Why was Percy so anxious to get back for the Minnesota game and let the coaches know all week and during the game that he was "ready" yet since that game it seems that Pete is always uncomfortable answering any questions as to Percy's condition and his whereabouts?

Has he even been with the team over the past 3-4 weeks?

Back to the beginning question- Is Percy Harvin a head case?

Does anyone have any answers?

Very good questions, savvy. I'd like to hear some answers.

[HawkWow]

With all respect to all of the above...and please don't take this the wrong way but... where have you been? Is Harvin a headcase? Was Owens a headcase? Harvin makes Owens look like Andy Griffith.

Research his days of anger issues at UF where he grabbed his coach (Gonzalez) by the throat and threw him to the ground. The failed piss tests of he and his bro, Aaron Hernandez, covered by Meyer, will be there too.

Then the combine where he pissed dirty and missed not 1, but 2 mandatory meetings with NCAA officials and NFL team reps. ...Harvin said he "overslept".

Research his days following the departures of Favre and Moss. His refusal to attend the rookie symposium His physical attack on Brad Childress with a weight and his sideline melt down on mild mannered Les Frazier. The phony migraines, virus', and threatened hold outs every single year after 2010.

When Moss was let go, harvin got Migrianes...when the Vikes were going after Mike Wallace, Harvin said he'd sit the year out if they signed him...when old homie Hernandez got a lucrative extension from the Pats, Harvin wanted one too and threatened to hold out if he didn't get one.

During his time with the Vikes, Harvin attended no more than 40% of camps and practices. It is rumored he was also instrumental in getting Childress fired. A plan orchestrated by he and his self professed mentor, Randy Moss to exact revenge on Childres over Moss' release.

So disruptive was Harvin, that the Vikes put him on IR, in week 10...for a relatively minor ankle sprain. They were in the hunt and he was in MVP talks...but they shut him down?? Why? Because the Vikes believed at the rate he was going, they would be lucky to get a 2nd rd pick for him. But then along came our dumb ass'.....

Don't wonder why Pete is uncomfortable with the subject. He and JS took this punk and rewarded him with millions, thinking they were somehow different than the previous execs in Harvin's past. Harvin screwed the Vikes, he's screwing us and the Vikes have us on speed dial. Someone should tell Ziggy Wilf it's illegal to own 2 NFL teams.

The above is a partial list of his infractions in his very short time in the NFL. There's more. I have been informing people of this since the day we signed this cancer. But I was a "hater" and "fake fan", somehow bent on discrediting Princess Percy. Just the opposite is true. I love this team, Harvin stains teams.

[savvyman]

With all respect to all of the above...and please don't take this the wrong way but... where have you been? Is Harvin a headcase? Was Owens a headcase? Harvin makes Owens look like Andy Griffith.

No Offense taken. I acknowledge that many posters on these forums are more informed and up to date on football knowledge then me. I was aware of some of the past history of Harvin but not to the extent that you are.

The next questions that need to be asked is why isn't the local media asking some tough questions about where is Harvin? What exactly is his current medical condition? What or who are these Doctors giving his prognosis? Are they Seahawk team physicians? Has Percy been attending any of the team Practices? Maybe there are reasonable explanations for all of this? And maybe there are not?

This Sunday Game has Superbowl implications all over it - It is all hands on deck time - Unless Harvin is in a cast he owes it to everyone to get his butt out on the field.

[Distant Relative]

The Percy trade may go down as the worst in team history.

[NorthHawk]

With all respect to all of the above...and please don't take this the wrong way but... where have you been? Is Harvin a headcase? Was Owens a headcase? Harvin makes Owens look like Andy Griffith.

Research his days of anger issues at UF where he grabbed his coach (Gonzalez) by the throat and threw him to the ground. The failed piss tests of he and his bro, Aaron Hernandez, covered by Meyer, will be there too.

Then the combine where he pissed dirty and missed not 1, but 2 mandatory meetings with NCAA officials and NFL team reps. ...Harvin said he "overslept".

Research his days following the departures of Favre and Moss. His refusal to attend the rookie symposium His physical attack on Brad Childress with a weight and his sideline melt down on mild mannered Les Frazier. The phony migraines, virus', and threatened hold outs every single year after 2010.

When Moss was let go, harvin got Migrianes...when the Vikes were going after Mike Wallace, Harvin said he'd sit the year out if they signed him...when old homie Hernandez got a lucrative extension from the Pats, Harvin wanted one too and threatened to hold out if he didn't get one.

During his time with the Vikes, Harvin attended no more than 40% of camps and practices. It is rumored he was also instrumental in getting Childress fired. A plan orchestrated by he and his self professed mentor, Randy Moss to exact revenge on Childres over Moss' release.

So disruptive was Harvin, that the Vikes put him on IR, in week 10...for a relatively minor ankle sprain. They were in the hunt and he was in MVP talks...but they shut him down?? Why? Because the Vikes believed at the rate he was going, they would be lucky to get a 2nd rd pick for him. But then along came our dumb ass'.....

Don't wonder why Pete is uncomfortable with the subject. He and JS took this punk and rewarded him with millions, thinking they were somehow different than the previous execs in Harvin's past. Harvin screwed the Vikes, he's screwing us and the Vikes have us on speed dial. Someone should tell Ziggy Wilf it's illegal to own 2 NFL teams.

The above is a partial list of his infractions in his very short time in the NFL. There's more. I have been informing people of this since the day we signed this cancer. But I was a "hater" and "fake fan", somehow bent on discrediting Princess Percy. Just the opposite is true. I love this team, Harvin stains teams.

Those are fair questions, but it doesn't mean that his hip isn't causing problems enough to not be able to play.
Only his doctor really knows the extent of what is going on physically after the surgery and rehab.

[rottweiler]

Man. Oh. Man. Wow. Just. Wow.

God, I feel sorry for Coach Carroll, having to be this high-priced kid's boss.

I feel even more sorry for Paul Allen, given that he's the one signing Harvin's extra-sharp cheddar checks.

I'm not sure I can even bring myself to see Harvin as an athlete anymore. He's just a thief. That's all.

[RiverDog]

With all respect to all of the above...and please don't take this the wrong way but... where have you been? Is Harvin a headcase? Was Owens a headcase? Harvin makes Owens look like Andy Griffith.

No Offense taken. I acknowledge that many posters on these forums are more informed and up to date on football knowledge then me. I was aware of some of the past history of Harvin but not to the extent that you are.

The next questions that need to be asked is why isn't the local media asking some tough questions about where is Harvin? What exactly is his current medical condition? What or who are these Doctors giving his prognosis? Are they Seahawk team physicians? Has Percy been attending any of the team Practices? Maybe there are reasonable explanations for all of this? And maybe there are not?

This Sunday Game has Superbowl implications all over it - Unless Harvin is in a cast he owes it to everyone to get his butt out on the field.

The first one is pretty easy to answer: Because this is Seattle, and not New York or Washington, DC. There isn't as much media competition as there is in those places, so the motivation here is to cozy up to the popular head coach and throw him softball questions.

Harvin has had an MRI, and it's clean. If the doctors had detected something, the team would have disclosed it in a heartbeat in order to take some of the heat off the questions as to why he's not even practicing. All the team has ever said is that he's experiencing stiffness.

I don't know about the practice question. That seems to me a question of which Pete owes to us an answer. It's not Pete's money and it's not Pete's draft choices he's spent on this guy. It's the franchises capital that he spent acquiring this guy, and he's the one that's filled us with all of these great expectations every time he gets a chance. Pete has an obligation to those of us that have invested a lot of time and our own money in supporting this team to at least give us the straight scoop as to what's wrong with Harvin. Where is he, why is he not at least practicing, and what, if anything, is he doing to get back on the field and start contributing?

[RiverDog]

Those are fair questions, but it doesn't mean that his hip isn't causing problems enough to not be able to play.
Only his doctor really knows the extent of what is going on physically after the surgery and rehab.

If the doctors know the extent of what is going on physically after the surgery, then why aren't they and/or Pete telling us? If there was something tangible they detected, wouldn't you think that Pete would be anxious to tell us, to take some of the heat off him and Percy? Is there some sort of doctor-patient relationship that's causing them to withhold information on what's ailing him? All I've heard is that he's experiencing stiffness.

[NorthHawk]

Those are fair questions, but it doesn't mean that his hip isn't causing problems enough to not be able to play.
Only his doctor really knows the extent of what is going on physically after the surgery and rehab.

If the doctors know the extent of what is going on physically after the surgery, then why aren't they and/or Pete telling us? If there was something tangible they detected, wouldn't you think that Pete would be anxious to tell us, to take some of the heat off him and Percy? Is there some sort of doctor-patient relationship that's causing them to withhold information on what's ailing him? All I've heard is that he's experiencing stiffness.

I've heard they are draining it regularly and he has extra range of motion - which is a possible indication of more damage according to some.
Other than keeping him out of the lineup and saying it's a hip injury is all that's required by the NFL.

I'm not saying he's not stealing the money, rather that it's difficult to pass judgement without knowing all of the facts.

[RiverDog]

Those are fair questions, but it doesn't mean that his hip isn't causing problems enough to not be able to play.
Only his doctor really knows the extent of what is going on physically after the surgery and rehab.

If the doctors know the extent of what is going on physically after the surgery, then why aren't they and/or Pete telling us? If there was something tangible they detected, wouldn't you think that Pete would be anxious to tell us, to take some of the heat off him and Percy? Is there some sort of doctor-patient relationship that's causing them to withhold information on what's ailing him? All I've heard is that he's experiencing stiffness.

I've heard they are draining it regularly and he has extra range of motion - which is a possible indication of more damage according to some.
Other than keeping him out of the lineup and saying it's a hip injury is all that's required by the NFL.

I'm not saying he's not stealing the money, rather that it's difficult to pass judgement without knowing all of the facts.

I'm not trying to be a smart Alec, but do you have a link? What's your source? My google search doesn't turn up anything. Are they getting any fluid out of his hip when they drain it, or is draining fluid just one of those standard things they do when they're not sure what's wrong?

[NorthHawk]

Those are fair questions, but it doesn't mean that his hip isn't causing problems enough to not be able to play.
Only his doctor really knows the extent of what is going on physically after the surgery and rehab.

If the doctors know the extent of what is going on physically after the surgery, then why aren't they and/or Pete telling us? If there was something tangible they detected, wouldn't you think that Pete would be anxious to tell us, to take some of the heat off him and Percy? Is there some sort of doctor-patient relationship that's causing them to withhold information on what's ailing him? All I've heard is that he's experiencing stiffness.

I've heard they are draining it regularly and he has extra range of motion - which is a possible indication of more damage according to some.
Other than keeping him out of the lineup and saying it's a hip injury is all that's required by the NFL.

I'm not saying he's not stealing the money, rather that it's difficult to pass judgement without knowing all of the facts.

I'm not trying to be a smart Alec, but do you have a link? What's your source? My google search doesn't turn up anything. Are they getting any fluid out of his hip when they drain it, or is draining fluid just one of those standard things they do when they're not sure what's wrong?

No links - I think I heard it on one of the post game shows when they discussed him.
The Doctor comment I read at the Blue forum by the (an actual) Doctor who was discussing the injury and his concerns with what the treatment meant at the time.
The point I am making is we are getting 2nd and 3rd hand information so casting judgement is a fools game. We'll only really know after his time here is all done.

[savvyman]

Agree with Riverdog.

All NFL players are experiencing a substantial amount of aches and pains at this time of year. Marshawn at times looks like he is really suffering from lower back pains.

Here is what Percy looked like 5 weeks ago -

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000284035/Harvin-58-yard-kick-return

Again there was no new injury from this Minnesota- No new diagnosis - I acknowledge that it is very possible that Percy's hip experienced some inflammation and pain after the game. But most of these situations seem to settle down over the next 1-3 weeks. It is 5 weeks later and he still is not around because of "Stiffness in the Hip" and "the hip is just not right"?

Every NFL player is so beaten up after every game that they all admit their body does not fully heal until Friday. So playing with some type of physical discomfort is part of the job expectations of an NFL player.

Is the reason why Percy let everyone know the week of the Minnesota game that "he was ready to go" was because he was more interested in showing up his old team than helping his new one?

Well now its time for Percy to suck it up and help his new team - As I mentioned earlier - its all hands on deck time - Percy should be with the team and on the field even if he is not 100% - It would take two broken legs and confinement to a wheel chair (or an unjustified NFL suspension) to keep Brandon Browner from appearing in this Sundays game.

[NorthHawk]

Agree with Riverdog.

All NFL players are experiencing a substantial amount of aches and pains at this time of year. Marshawn at times looks like he is really suffering from lower back pains.

Here is what Percy looked like 5 weeks ago -

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000284035/Harvin-58-yard-kick-return

Again there was no new injury from this Minnesota- No new diagnosis - I acknowledge that it is very possible that Percy's hip experienced some inflammation and pain after the game. But most of these situations seem to settle down over the next 1-3 weeks. It is 5 weeks later and he still is not around because of "Stiffness in the Hip" and "the hip is just not right"?

Every NFL player is so beaten up after every game that they all admit their body does not fully heal until Friday. So playing with some type of physical discomfort is part of the job expectations of an NFL player.

Is the reason why Percy let everyone know the week of the Minnesota game that "he was ready to go" was because he was more interested in showing up his old team than helping his new one?

Well now its time for Percy to suck it up and help his new team - As I mentioned earlier - its all hands on deck time - Percy should be with the team and on the field even if he is not 100% - It would take two broken legs and confinement to a wheel chair (or an unjustified NFL suspension) to keep Brandon Browner from appearing in this Sundays game.

I'm not trying to defend him but I am trying to put things into perspective.
Unless you are a doctor who has seen the examination and rehab results you cannot pass judgement.
For all we know he partially re-injured his hip in that one game and now has to rest it for a number of months.
Perhaps he's just dogging it.
We don't have enough information to make accusations and demand he play.

[savvyman]

I'm not trying to defend him but I am trying to put things into perspective.
Unless you are a doctor who has seen the examination and rehab results you cannot pass judgement.
For all we know he partially re-injured his hip in that one game and now has to rest it for a number of months.
Perhaps he's just dogging it.
We don't have enough information to make accusations and demand he play.

Your perspective is reasonable I agree we do not have enough information to conclude anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

Most of us have given Percy the benefit of doubt this entire season - however my gut based on all the earlier discussion on this board says there is something else going on here.

My "Guess" is that Pete and the team Doctors think that Percy could and should be on the field one way or another but Percy has a "Doctors note" from his own doctors saying he can't attend school today and this week again.

Question - Leading up to the most important game of the year - should Percy be with his teammates rehabbing under the guidance of the Hawks professional staff and giving his teammates his support for this very important game or should he be away "In Seattle Rehabbing?"

[rottweiler]

Question - Leading up to the most important game of the year - should Percy be with his teammates rehabbing under the guidance of the Hawks professional staff and giving his teammates his support for this very important game or should he be away "In Seattle Rehabbing?"

The simple answer to that is that his docs should just quadruple the Demerol dosage and tell Harvin that he's okay to play.

Then he can go to an altogether different kind of rehab at Passages Malibu in a few weeks.

[Steady_Hawk]

I'm with those who need more info. I sense Percy as a fierce competitor who wants to win. Does he have warts? Yep. Most of the insanely talented do unfortunately. Bevel spent time with the guy at Minnesota, if he was such an insane head case I highly doubt we even take the chance on him. Childress was a punk, who knows what was going on over there behind the scenes.

River-I heard something similar on 710 ESPN awhile ago. He hyper extended something related to the hip joint and now there is something loose that is causing another complication and may require an additional surgery. If I were to guess what's really going on, they're hoping they can get one or two games out of him before he goes under the knife again. Now that we are so close to the post season, they will probably risk him.

[RiverDog]

No links - I think I heard it on one of the post game shows when they discussed him.
The Doctor comment I read at the Blue forum by the (an actual) Doctor who was discussing the injury and his concerns with what the treatment meant at the time.
The point I am making is we are getting 2nd and 3rd hand information so casting judgement is a fools game. We'll only really know after his time here is all done.

I read the comment from The Blue's Dr. Football. He seemed to be just as befuddled as anyone, specifically said that his understanding of the injury and the symptoms that's being reported doesn't add up.

The 'injury' was day-to-day. Now it is week-to-week, with no explanation as to why the regression

[Hawktawk]

Pussy Harvin has an owie(again) Sorry its a broken record. As I have said previously and as has been dicussed on this thread he could not possible have looked that good vs the Vikes and be completely finished now, especially when he was not listed on any injury report until just a few days beforew the next game. What did he do? slip getting out of the whirlpool? Hes been a complete disaster and does not deserve any benefit of the doubt whatsoever. Are you a man or a mouse Percy? Squeak up!!!!

[HawkWow]

With all respect to all of the above...and please don't take this the wrong way but... where have you been? Is Harvin a headcase? Was Owens a headcase? Harvin makes Owens look like Andy Griffith.

No Offense taken. I acknowledge that many posters on these forums are more informed and up to date on football knowledge then me. I was aware of some of the past history of Harvin but not to the extent that you are.

The next questions that need to be asked is why isn't the local media asking some tough questions about where is Harvin? What exactly is his current medical condition? What or who are these Doctors giving his prognosis? Are they Seahawk team physicians? Has Percy been attending any of the team Practices? Maybe there are reasonable explanations for all of this? And maybe there are not?

This Sunday Game has Superbowl implications all over it - It is all hands on deck time - Unless Harvin is in a cast he owes it to everyone to get his butt out on the field.

Hey Savvy,

Re-reading my rant, it appears to be directed solely at your thread question. Poorly worded by me, is what it was. Yours was a valid and excellent question. My request that people research Harvin's past, was made to the general public, not you. I know you know this, but I just to make to make that clear. I hated the acquisition because wanting Harvin out of Florida, I have followed his every step...the fact I have numerous friends that are (intelligent) fans of the Vikes, left me few options but to know his every move. That's why the frustrated tone of my reply. Many saw this coming and I am stunned we took a chance on him. Naturally I assumed Pete knew something we did not...it looks like I was very wrong about that. Pete, like many others, has been victimized by Percy Harvin. Plain and simple. I am of the opinion that the sooner we part ways with him the better. He is in deed a cancer, always has been...why would he change with 26 mil in the bank? He's more Harvin than ever and I just want him away from our guys.

[HawkWow]

I'm with those who need more info. I sense Percy as a fierce competitor who wants to win. Does he have warts? Yep. Most of the insanely talented do unfortunately. Bevel spent time with the guy at Minnesota, if he was such an insane head case I highly doubt we even take the chance on him. Childress was a punk, who knows what was going on over there behind the scenes.

River-I heard something similar on 710 ESPN awhile ago. He hyper extended something related to the hip joint and now there is something loose that is causing another complication and may require an additional surgery. If I were to guess what's really going on, they're hoping they can get one or two games out of him before he goes under the knife again. Now that we are so close to the post season, they will probably risk him.

Steady...Childress was the one with warts, harvin was the punk. It was clear to all the negative impact Moss was having on Harvin. So Childress dumped Moss. Nothing punkish about unloading the cancer "I play when I want to play" Randy Moss. But let's say you're right and Childres was a punk. How does that explain the exact same scenario with Leslie Frazier? Frazier is more Dungy than Dungy...a gentleman and far from a punk. Urban Meyer was a punk. He covered drug tests for Harvin (etc.) and when Harvin threw Gonzales to the ground by his throat, in front of the world, Meyer failed to discipline Harvin...and here we are today.

Another thing people use in defending Harvin is "He hated Ponder because Ponder was a poor QB". So what? Great players do their all to make their QB better. They don't throw tantrums and demand trades. It's not Harvin's place to hate. He was under contract and just needed to STFU and do his job....not a chance. "Harvin hated Ponder", even though Ponder positioned Harvin for an MVP run, because Ponder called him out on his selfish attitude and refused to cave in to Harvin's every demand.

I can't recall many players in my long history with this sport that have been more disruptive, and did more damage, than this punk has...and all before his 25th birthday. I hope we rid ourselves of him and he never again plays a down in the NFL. He is bad for the brand and I wouldn't wish him on anyone (other than SF).

[Hawkstar]

Looks like he's headed to IR, or at least how the reporters are reading between the lines of Pete's comments. Thurman coming back takes his spot.

Super bummed, but it is what it is.

[HawkWow]

Looks like he's headed to IR, or at least how the reporters are reading between the lines of Pete's comments. Thurman coming back takes his spot.

Super bummed, but it is what it is.

Well...Sherman dreamed of being a WR. With Walter back, maybe we...naw. ; )

You know, honestly, it's not Harvin that bums me out most. I expected nothing from him, so he has not disappointed. I am bummed that Pete and JS put so many eggs in the basket of Percy frikin Harvin. When we drafted Michael, I wasn't happy about it. But, knowing they know more than myself, I said...uh, well maybe he ultimately replaces Lynch but immediately steps into a Harvin role if Harvin stays in Harvin role (malcontent) himself. Instead, we get neither.

Too many are saying "well, with a team like ours you can't expect rookies to contribute"...uh, what?? This draft was an absolute abortion. We are getting nothing from the top 6 picks and not much after the 7th (Willson). People can try to dress it up all they want, but they, IMO, are in denial...putting lipstick on a pig. To bring in a cancer is one thing, to have ZERO back up plan to that cancer, is entirely another. Love them both and I'm grateful for last year's draft, Avril and Bennett, and this year's record, but IMO, they sure let the offense down. Let's hope it's not our undoing. If it is, the blame falls on them, not Harvin.

[RiverDog]

Looks like he's headed to IR, or at least how the reporters are reading between the lines of Pete's comments. Thurman coming back takes his spot.

Super bummed, but it is what it is.

Well...Sherman dreamed of being a WR. With Walter back, maybe we...naw. ; )

You know, honestly, it's not Harvin that bums me out most. I expected nothing from him, so he has not disappointed. I am bummed that Pete and JS put so many eggs in the basket of Percy frikin Harvin. When we drafted Michael, I wasn't happy about it. But, knowing they know more than myself, I said...uh, well maybe he ultimately replaces Lynch but immediately steps into a Harvin role if Harvin stays in Harvin role (malcontent) himself. Instead, we get neither.

Too many are saying "well, with a team like ours you can't expect rookies to contribute"...uh, what?? This draft was an absolute abortion. We are getting nothing from the top 6 picks and not much after the 7th (Willson). People can try to dress it up all they want, but they, IMO, are in denial...putting lipstick on a pig. To bring in a cancer is one thing, to have ZERO back up plan to that cancer, is entirely another. Love them both and I'm grateful for last year's draft, Avril and Bennett, and this year's record, but IMO, they sure let the offense down. Let's hope it's not our undoing. If it is, the blame falls on them, not Harvin.

I agree. This is the third year in a row where we haven't gotten much production with our top pick. James Carpenter was a complete bust as an OT and now is struggling to stay in the starting lineup as a guard. Bruce Irvin, although learning a new position, is our weakest LB against the run and has just two sacks on the season. Michael hasn't hardly played at all this season and the Harvin trade for a first, third, and seventh is looking worse by the day. That's not a good formula for sustaining success.

[NorthHawk]

I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but the FO doesn't inspire confidence in their ability to assemble players on the Offensive side. Certainly not like they do on Defense. Other than the Lynch trade and good luck with Wilson still there in the 3rd, what have they done to improve the Offense? The OL is suspect and they really only have Tate and Baldwin as good WRs - Rice seems to have a chronic knee problem. Other than Okung, Tate, and Wilson, I can't think of any other starting player on offense that was acquired by this FO who was a high pick. Sure, it's great to point to the success of late picks or UDFAs making the team, but a dominating Offense is rarely created by lower round selections.

[savvyman]

Hey Savvy,

Re-reading my rant, it appears to be directed solely at your thread question. Poorly worded by me, is what it was. Yours was a valid and excellent question.

Hey hawknow - no worries, I appreciate the information and insight that you have provided on Percy Harvin's past.

When I have the time I will place a more detailed post about this whole situation. In the meantime, until proven differently, I am moving Harvin to the official "bum" list.

I remember at the beginning of the preseason when Harvin first started to complain about his hip - Pete made it clear at the time that the Seahawks Doctors examined Harvin and their assessment was that surgery was not necessary - that there was alternative treatments available (rest, anti-inflammatories, physical therapy) and it was clear that this was the road that Pete & The team Staff & Doctors felt should be taken for Harvin's situation.

I remember myself and riverdog questioning Harvin commitment to the team at that time - and in response we got attacked for our opinions on Harvin - when looking back on our opinions (on Harvin getting surgery or not) - they were really not our opinions - we were reflecting the opinions and assessments of Pete and his staff on whether Harvin should have surgery or not.

As I stated on an earlier post on this thread- I think this is the situation as of December 26, 2013.:

Most of us have given Percy the benefit of doubt this entire season - however my gut based on all the earlier discussion on this board says there is something else going on here.

My "Guess" is that Pete and the team Doctors think that Percy could and should be on the field one way or another but Percy has a "Doctors note" from his own doctors saying he can't attend school today and this week again.

It is now Playoff time with the season long goal of winning the Superbowl at stake - it is clearly all hands on deck time - the entire roster is playing with aches and pains now - that bum needs to suck up whatever "stiffness and pain" he is experiencing and get into the practice facility with the rest of his teammates now.

[RiverDog]

I remember myself and riverdog questioning Harvin commitment to the team at that time - and in response we got attacked for our opinions on Harvin -

For me, the DUI arrest was when I first started questioning Harvin's commitment. Some of the defenses used by Harvin supporters were on the verge of being comical, like "it's legal in this state" or "he passed the test so what are you worried about?" Not many people saw it as a bad omen that it represented to me. I sure hope I'm wrong, but I get the sense that we're being taken to the cleaners by this guy.

[HawkWow]

Sorry you guys were attacked for stating something 31 other teams, and their fans, knew already. I don't want to rag on our fanbase, like ourselves, they've been through hell, but the bulk is just to quick to embrace a player as soon as they see him with in Hawk gear. Bruce Irvin, as mentioned by RD, also falls into this group. Take away the GB game and he's not done a hella lot. Somebody will be quick to say "he was suspended and that hurt him". WHAT? He was suspended and that hurt US. I don't see that as any sort of excuse, just the opposite.

I am obviously very vocal about the Harvin deal, so you can imagine the wars I've fought. But like yours, it's not a war I can lose because of the basis of my disgust for the guy. I am embarrassed he is on our team because of his well documented, ridiculously ugly past. This can't be excused with the old "a guy deserves a second chance"...he had his 2nd chance before he was even drafted and there's been a dozen chances since. Whether he lights it up for us or not (one day), I am embarrassed that we rewarded Harvin for his non-stop me-first ways. And to be honest, for the first time since his arrival, I am starting to question Pete Carroll as a man. I'm a lifelong Hawk fan and guilty of my own misdeeds in life...so I was never the guy that wanted a guy removed from the team because he argued publicly with his wife. I'm not the guy that expects all of our players to do milk commercials like Zorn and Largent...but even I have my limits. It seems we are bringing in more and more "questionable character" guys. Irvin, Michael, Harvin to name a few. What are they doing that's so special we needed to take a chance on them? You take a chance on a Suh, perhaps, and even young guys like CM and Irvin after much scrutiny and careful evaluation...but Harvin and Cox?? WTH are we turning into? And as mentioned above...our drafts have become woeful and every draft counts. Pete is getting HUGE money to make intelligent draft day decisions...EVERY draft. I won't dismiss the Michaels, Irvins and Carps because of the Sherms, Baldwins and Wilson. If we don't step it up, we will be on the outside looking in (again) before we know it. And the way the NFCW is starting to look, I'm unsure how many FA- O players will want to join the Hawks. But then again, I might be over reacting. Unsure.

[RiverDog]

The major reason for Tim Ruskell's downfall, in my opinion, was that he didn't get good mileage with his top draft choices. Lawrence Jackson, Kelly Jenings, Chris Spencer, Josh Wilson, the Branch trade, and of course, Aaron Curry. None of those guys amounted to much. I see parallels between Carpenter and Spencer, Irvin and LoJack, Branch and Harvin. I'm not saying that Pete and John are doomed to suffer the same fate as Ruskell did, but it nevertheless is concerning.

As far as giving grown adults a break, I'm in general agreement, but I'd add the kicker that it would depend on the situation. The PED/Substance abuse problems we've had are particularily frustrating. With as many times our guys have been caught, you'd think that the message would have gotten through long before now.

[NorthHawk]

I thought Ruskells issue was poor drafting throughout the draft coupled with not having any idea of what the identity of the team would be. This meant he could not identify the types of players that could work together as a team where abilities complement each other.

Compare this team where there is a clear identity on Defense of an aggressive and physical team and on The other side they want a run first ball possession Offense - or at least they are trying to do so. I think it's a big reason for the difference in records.

[HawkWow]

That's a pretty damn good description of Ruskell's watch. And if that wasn't enough, he let the fans dictate the operations of the Seattle Seahawks. Ruskell, like most who lack substance, cared too much about his own popularity with others (the fans).

I won't go into the details because I don't have a link, a certified statement (signed and dated by a notary) or anything etched in stone tablets, but I know for fact the re-signing of Alexander was huge in costing us Hutch. A loss that has taken us this long to recover from.

Everyone outside Seattle knew Alexander, despite the gaudy numbers and MVP (conveniently in his contract year), was a product of the line. Most suspected that once paid, SA would likely pull a Harvin. He did.

Ruskell was not an idiot, he knew this too. But he knew a mutiny would likely take place if he let Alexander walk. Alexander knew this as well and never missed an opportunity to suggest he "might have to go elsewhere", forcing Ruskell to puss out and sell out. Let's hope this FO has more sack and pulls the plug on any player that feels he's bigger than team.

BTW...I mean no offense to the Alexander faithful. I think he was a damn good back and don't hate the guy for wanting all he could get. Like he pointed out a billion times, "it's business". Unfortunately for him, there's not many busts of businessmen in Canton.

[Zorn76]

Maybe this has already been read by some, but I'll post this lil' tidbit anyway...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... d-reserve/

For all intents and purposes, it sounds like he's done. Thurmond is coming back - and you can never have enough DB's, especially come playoff time - and Harvin being placed on IR makes sense at this point. If nothing else, the questioning and speculation - along with any locker room stuff, though I can't imagine there being much since he only played in one game - will be done as well, at least for the time being.

IMO, it's time to move on, in the form of drafting another WR or two that's a burner next April. I just don't see how we can ignore it any longer. Other prospects may not have the "upside" or "talent" that Harvin has, but if they make the team and get on the field for more than a week, then it's a success by any measure. It's certainly better than what's going on now.

Even if Percy were healthy for the playoffs, you still have to be proactive next offseason. Clearly, whatever the issue(s) is (are), he can't be counted on. Only a full slate of 16 games next year could really begin to quell any lingering doubt.

The silver lining in all this is that we don't need him anyway to win a Lombardi. I honestly believe that, and the Seahawks have proven they can be solid without him. 12 wins heading in week 17 says so. Be great to have him, but it ain't happening, and he's got next year, at most, to prove himself.

Break a leg, PH:)

[RiverDog]

Yea, as usual, North nailed it. Pete and JS seem to be more in tune with how they want this team to shape up than did Holmgren and TR. Holmgren was stripped of his GM duties and was forced to do business with TR. Sometimes I got the feeling that the two would take turns during the draft, which might have gone something like "OK, Tim, you got your defensive end, this pick I'm going to take a tight end.". The relationship between JS and PC is completely different than our previous brain trust.

[Eaglehawk]

That being said, the danger of a PC 12 million a year bust with Harvin is real.
The deck is stacked against him coming back from a hip injury, but not impossible. the JS and PC connection has worked if you look at our record. And to me that is the key factor.

Sure we could talk about the offense and how it's not yet at 100 percent(injury notwithstanding). But with a 2nd year qb,
PC and JS have lost millions on the Flynn deal(arguably break even with RW's excellent play in terms of equity and money).
And I won't go into much more detail because we have discussed them ad nauseum.
Even with the millions lost due to busts, injuries, or potential busts i.e. Carpenter, I see this team on the plus side as all of us on here should.

We will beat the Rams. They have nothing to play for. I predict in the 3rd quarter they will show us the white flag.
Not a gimme, but we HAVE to win this game. its not something that our offense can not show up to.

[Eaglehawk]

River-I heard something similar on 710 ESPN awhile ago. He hyper extended something related to the hip joint and now there is something loose that is causing another complication and may require an additional surgery. If I were to guess what's really going on, they're hoping they can get one or two games out of him before he goes under the knife again. Now that we are so close to the post season, they will probably risk him.

Another thing people use in defending Harvin is "He hated Ponder because Ponder was a poor QB". So what? Great players do their all to make their QB better. They don't throw tantrums and demand trades. It's not Harvin's place to hate. He was under contract and just needed to STFU and do his job....not a chance. "Harvin hated Ponder", even though Ponder positioned Harvin for an MVP run, because Ponder called him out on his selfish attitude and refused to cave in to Harvin's every demand.

I can't recall many players in my long history with this sport that have been more disruptive, and did more damage, than this punk has...and all before his 25th birthday. I hope we rid ourselves of him and he never again plays a down in the NFL. He is bad for the brand and I wouldn't wish him on anyone (other than SF).

You know HawkWow the more I read your posts the more I am being turned to your side of the issue. (The dark side)?

But here is my take re one possible scenario. Harvin snowed everyone, got his contract, elected to have the hip surgery against PC's wishes, and tried to come back. He feigned being well enough only for the REVENGE game against the Vikings where he played well given his few touches. Then got hurt(rightly or wrongly), maybe he started screaming more and more loudly, and finally PC caught wind of the fact that rightly or wrongly, maybe just maybe PC got played. Now the guy will soon be on IR. PC is done with this guy. He will not be playing with us during the playoffs. The most compelling thing I read from you was how Moss "I play when I want to play", may have influenced him, and how he didn't get along with Ponder. This tells me alot about his mindset. Sure he is an unbelievable WR. Not sure if this story is over. For his family name and his legacy, Harvin SHOULD feel the need to redeem himself next season. Guys like him remind me of Curry(Ruskell not JS) and Jamarcus Russell who had 30 plus million GUARANTEED and who were both busts.
It's reasonable to think that under my scenario Bevell was fooled as well. You tend to look at his talent, and not at something that is represented to you as being able to be healed via physical therapy(hip). Now this is just a hypothesis, I don't necessarily believe what I just said, it's simply a possible scenario as to what has happened this season with Harvin. I hope that in fact I am wrong.

[RiverDog]

That being said, the danger of a PC 12 million a year bust with Harvin is real.
The deck is stacked against him coming back from a hip injury, but not impossible. the JS and PC connection has worked if you look at our record. And to me that is the key factor.

Sure we could talk about the offense and how it's not yet at 100 percent(injury notwithstanding). But with a 2nd year qb,
PC and JS have lost millions on the Flynn deal(arguably break even with RW's excellent play in terms of equity and money).
And I won't go into much more detail because we have discussed them ad nauseum.
Even with the millions lost due to busts, injuries, or potential busts i.e. Carpenter, I see this team on the plus side as all of us on here should.

We will beat the Rams. They have nothing to play for. I predict in the 3rd quarter they will show us the white flag.
Not a gimme, but we HAVE to win this game. its not something that our offense can not show up to.

The Rams won't be feeling any pressure to win, but that doesn't mean they don't have anything to play for. We've all seen teams that were out of the playoffs with seemingly nothing to play for rally to beat a playoff bound foe. They are a division rival and there's been a lot of bad blood between these two teams (remember Tate's bye bye waive?). This is going to be a supreme challenge for us. There's plenty of blood in the water left over from the Cards game that will activate the Ram's sense that we are beatable at home.

But I do expect us to win. I don't see Russell laying two eggs in a row. The 12th man will be in full throat. The defense will be flying around. Bevel will pull out all the stops. There will be no holding back. One way or another, it will be a defining game for our team. If we win, our chances of going to the SB are well over 50%. If we lose, I wouldn't give us a 10% chance of going. You don't find many regular season games the result of which would put us on two such distinctly different paths.