Denver 34, San Francisco 0

[RiverDog]

Sorry for the redundant thread. It's just that I enjoyed typing that score so much I just had to do it in a subject box.

[depaashaas]

I almost chocked on my burger when I seen the score on my phone. I know it's pre season and the win don't mean much and all but getting just beaten this badly, in the first game in your new home in front of a sold out stadium and you are not even able to put up a field goal, now that is just awesome LOL. I am going to enjoy this one for a while even if it's just pre season

[Futureite]

Preseason Standings:

AZ 1-1
Sea 1-1
St Louis 0-2
SF 0-2

I am a big Bears fan next week. But it's all a moot if we can't get it done in SD. Haven't even reviewed the tiebreakers yet.

[HumanCockroach]

I could care less as long the team shows glimpses of what it is going to be, the record in pre season means jack squat, I wouldn't go as far as saying I would be OK with that type of showing even from the backups, and future construction workers on my team, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean much. I was surprised by the showing, and absolutely shocked that they couldn't score any points in Santa Clara (though to be far six points should have been tallied by the Niners) but in a game, that a billion and a half dollar stadium almost filled to compacity doesn't even drive the backups to put something, anything on the board seems strange and odd to me. Of course I live in Seattle, and few and far between are stompings like that, no matter how troubled the Hawks are, whether it be pre, regular or post season, they always seem to make it "competitive" so my view might be jaded..

[Futureite]

I could care less as long the team shows glimpses of what it is going to be, the record in pre season means jack squat, I wouldn't go as far as saying I would be OK with that type of showing even from the backups, and future construction workers on my team, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean much. I was surprised by the showing, and absolutely shocked that they couldn't score any points in Santa Clara (though to be far six points should have been tallied by the Niners) but in a game, that a billion and a half dollar stadium almost filled to compacity doesn't even drive the backups to put something, anything on the board seems strange and odd to me. Of course I live in Seattle, and few and far between are stompings like that, no matter how troubled the Hawks are, whether it be pre, regular or post season, they always seem to make it "competitive" so my view might be jaded..

Well I agree with that. The effort was there but the execution was horrendous. Way too many mental mistakes. It does seem odd to me as well. But I sure did like seeing Kaep drop that rainbow over the top to Llyod. If he had caught that the entire day was a success to me.

[Anthony]

Preseason Standings:

AZ 1-1
Sea 1-1
St Louis 0-2
SF 0-2

I am a big Bears fan next week. But it's all a moot if we can't get it done in SD. Haven't even reviewed the tiebreakers yet.

Do you think being a top of the pre season standings means something? If so I have so me land in the North pole to sell you.

[jshawaii22]

Oh, I think Future is just playing with us. But, they didn't look good today at all. Their DBacks are not the LoB.

The Levi's stadium, that billion $$$ mass has no personality. Looks like a multi-storied cruise ship on one side of the field with a lot of exposed concrete.

js

[kalibane]

Why are you so excited about an overthrown deep pass? Not sure why you think that it was some great pin point throw that Llyod flubbed the catch on. It's not like he let up on the route the ball was just out of his reach. There were actually a couple of positive takeaways I saw in terms of a couple of Kaep's plays (despite the terrible stat line) but that throw wasn't one of them. It was just a pretty looking spiral of an incompletion. It's nothing I haven't seen from Ryan Tannehill.

As far as the game, it should perk your ears a little that the 49ers have only scored 3 points in two games but they ripped off a couple of nice runs with the first team. Despite not scoring, it appears Kaep has made some progress on going through his progresssions. We already knew the secondary was a problem for them so no news there (and why I didn't think the outcome of the Superbowl would have necessarily been the same had SF gone). But Justin Smith didn't play, Patrick Willis didn't play, Ian Williams didn't play (I think). There were a couple plays in particular where if Willis was on the field the result is different. On one of the TDs the 9ers were out of alignment and confused. Willis would have had them lined up correctly. They hit Thomas on a crossing route that went for big yardage where the MLB got picked which is what gave Thomas so much room to run. I doubt Willis gets picked on that play (at least not as effectively as the guy playing for him).

Not to mention like the game against the Seahawks, since they have to play the Broncos this season they weren't going to give them any film and played things really vanilla constantly dropping back in a soft zone. And once the 1st team went out it didn't matter because Gabbert was so bad it's hard to evaluate the rest of the backups.

Maybe now that Future has watched the Broncos play his team he can actually see how the Broncos use Demaryius Thomas and why him racking up receptions doesn't necessarily make for an impressive game. He has big numbers but a lot of those numbers are empty. If you are committed to throwing him 6-7 quick screens to Thomas every game he's going to have a lot of catches. But if at the end of the day he averages less than 10 yards per catch who cares? Given Thomas' physical gifts he should be averaging 16-20 yards per catch.

[Futureite]

Why are you so excited about an overthrown deep pass? Not sure why you think that it was some great pin point throw that Llyod flubbed the catch on. It's not like he let up on the route the ball was just out of his reach. There were actually a couple of positive takeaways I saw in terms of a couple of Kaep's plays (despite the terrible stat line) but that throw wasn't one of them. It was just a pretty looking spiral of an incompletion. It's nothing I haven't seen from Ryan Tannehill.

As far as the game, it should perk your ears a little that the 49ers have only scored 3 points in two games but they ripped off a couple of nice runs with the first team. Despite not scoring, it appears Kaep has made some progress on going through his progresssions. We already knew the secondary was a problem for them so no news there (and why I didn't think the outcome of the Superbowl would have necessarily been the same had SF gone). But Justin Smith didn't play, Patrick Willis didn't play, Ian Williams didn't play (I think). There were a couple plays in particular where if Willis was on the field the result is different. On one of the TDs the 9ers were out of alignment and confused. Willis would have had them lined up correctly. They hit Thomas on a crossing route that went for big yardage where the MLB got picked which is what gave Thomas so much room to run. I doubt Willis gets picked on that play (at least not as effectively as the guy playing for him).

Not to mention like the game against the Seahawks, since they have to play the Broncos this season they weren't going to give them any film and played things really vanilla constantly dropping back in a soft zone. And once the 1st team went out it didn't matter because Gabbert was so bad it's hard to evaluate the rest of the backups.

Maybe now that Future has watched the Broncos play his team he can actually see how the Broncos use Demaryius Thomas and why him racking up receptions doesn't necessarily make for an impressive game. He has big numbers but a lot of those numbers are empty. If you are committed to throwing him 6-7 quick screens to Thomas every game he's going to have a lot of catches. But if at the end of the day he averages less than 10 yards per catch who cares? Given Thomas' physical gifts he should be averaging 16-20 yards per catch.

As AI said, we talkin' bout practice? Not the game. Not the game that I bleed for . . . Practice games?? Practice?

Texans beat us 30-7 in 2011 preseason in much the same way. Shaub carved us uo.

The ball to Lloyd was perfect. He short armed it. It is encouraging for the fact that our number 4 receiver had beaten his man by 2 steps and our QB put the ball to him standing in the pocket while getting clubbed in the head. The timing will improve and those will be TDs. The read progression is mildly encouraging, but as you know I never bought into that to begin with. He looks fine for 11 total preseason passes. I think he is going to have a monster yr.

[kalibane]

That ball wasn't perfect. And really have no agenda to say it isn't. I'm not one of the people who lives to pick Kaepernick apart. It's not like I think it was anything to get down on Kaep about overthrows happen but that ball wasn't perfect. You wanna see a perfect ball dropping it in the basket check out the Andy Dalton's TD pass to Mohammed Sanu. Which kind of underscores my point about I don't see why it's something to get super excited about. I mean... Andy Dalton.

What you should be excited about was what seemed like improved pocket presence. I notice him shifting around the pocket instead of getting outside as soon as he gets pressure on the edge like he used to.

[Futureite]

That ball wasn't perfect. And really have no agenda to say it isn't. I'm not one of the people who lives to pick Kaepernick apart. It's not like I think it was anything to get down on Kaep about overthrows happen but that ball wasn't perfect. You wanna see a perfect ball dropping it in the basket check out the Andy Dalton's TD pass to Mohammed Sanu. Which kind of underscores my point about I don't see why it's something to get super excited about.

What you should be excited about was what seemed like improved pocket presence. I notice him shifting around the pocket instead of getting outside as soon as he gets pressure on the edge like he used to.

Lol I thought Lloyd shortarmed it. You probably had a national broadcast but we had local guys and they said it looked like Lloyd lost it in the sun. He didn't even fully extend his arms and it still grazed his fingertips. I agree it was not an 'amazing' throw, but it was right there and should have been caught. It's fine if we disagree. It was encouraging to see our number 4 receiver blow by his man and to see the ball right there. You can imagine that would excite me, knowing that we 'could' have a lot of options that are tough to cover.

The read progression was good, but as I always post here I knew Kaep would be working hard on his entire game and would improve this offseason. I have always posted that he has the work ethic and the IQ. That is usually what we collectively debate here.

Regular season is a different story though and our entire O has a lot that it needs to prove. 3rd and shirt, redzone, Kaep's effieviency. All need to improve over last yr's numbers.

[burrrton]

Preseason Standings:

AZ 1-1
Sea 1-1
St Louis 0-2
SF 0-2

I am a big Bears fan next week. But it's all a moot if we can't get it done in SD. Haven't even reviewed the tiebreakers yet.

[HumanCockroach]

I would be concerned about the pass defense, not impressed with the players, I understand the soft zone coverage, but I'm not entirely sure without the pressure that a Smith and Bowman add to that mix, that the DB's can have much success. Isn't like they haven't been shredded before, and I didn't see much in the way of upgrades there over the off season. Without the "press" of the front seven, if I was a Niners fan I'd be pretty damn nervous right about now. There seems to be a shifting of priorities in Santa Clara right now, and that is more punch on offense, and I just haven't seen much in the way of that punch, which could be a major hurdle early in the season for them. Might indeed work out for the best for them, but from what I've witnessed, it sure hasn't seemed like it.

[kalibane]

That would be my concern too HC. People rarely talk about Willis and/or Bowman blitzing I guess because they don't get a lot of sacks but that's where they generate their inside rush. They have had decent nose guards but no one who can collapse the pocket like Ngata, Sam Adams or even Casey Hampton on occassion. Regardless of what some people may choose to believe, SF's back end is very suspect. They need Jimmy Ward to essentially duplicate what Honey Badger was able to do for the Cardinals or they are going to suffer in the passing game and that's asking a lot from a rookie. Even if he does it might not make much of a difference because they are weak on the outside.

I really think that with their defense as it is, Peyton Manning would be able to pretty much move up and down the field on them with relative ease. They may be able to get an edge rush going with Smith and Brooks but the way you get to Manning is pressure in his face not so much on the edge because he usually has the ball out before that kind of rush gets home. I'll be curious to see what they do during the regular season when they actually game plan for Peyton. Will we see stunts? Will they blitz Willis even though Wilhoite was getting picked on and looked a little lost in coverage at times?

They just aren't as much of a suffocating unit as they have been the last couple of years and they have never had the DBs to match up the way the Hawks do.

[Futureite]

I would be concerned about the pass defense, not impressed with the players, I understand the soft zone coverage, but I'm not entirely sure without the pressure that a Smith and Bowman add to that mix, that the DB's can have much success. Isn't like they haven't been shredded before, and I didn't see much in the way of upgrades there over the off season. Without the "press" of the front seven, if I was a Niners fan I'd be pretty damn nervous right about now. There seems to be a shifting of priorities in Santa Clara right now, and that is more punch on offense, and I just haven't seen much in the way of that punch, which could be a major hurdle early in the season for them. Might indeed work out for the best for them, but from what I've witnessed, it sure hasn't seemed like it.

H

[HumanCockroach]

I would be concerned about the pass defense, not impressed with the players, I understand the soft zone coverage, but I'm not entirely sure without the pressure that a Smith and Bowman add to that mix, that the DB's can have much success. Isn't like they haven't been shredded before, and I didn't see much in the way of upgrades there over the off season. Without the "press" of the front seven, if I was a Niners fan I'd be pretty damn nervous right about now. There seems to be a shifting of priorities in Santa Clara right now, and that is more punch on offense, and I just haven't seen much in the way of that punch, which could be a major hurdle early in the season for them. Might indeed work out for the best for them, but from what I've witnessed, it sure hasn't seemed like it.

How can you say the O hasn't had much punch when the starters played 7 snaps yesterday. Crabtree played 3. There is sn article on SB Nation that details it. These are all playmakers with an established history. In fact, if you look at what our O did when healthy, it put up more points V your D than the top 5 Saints and Bronco Os did. Put up 23 at the Panthers. It's going to be a very productive O.

I've cited the examples of teams that moved on our D at will in the preseason in 2011 and 2012. Like the examples I used with Boldin and our D performance when Aldon/Willis missed time last yr, you either acknowledge them or dismiss them. Our pass D certainly wasn't bad last yr. It was rated #7 overall. We have added pieces to it that are upgrades, IMO.

There are no guarantees with any team, including the one you root for. Preseason blowouts in your favor or against have proven not to be predictive of anything. We will all just have to wait a couple more weeks to see.

I'm not discussing last season am I? Takes time to work new players into a system, and unless you are claiming that only the 6th through 9th string receivers have been on the field, and that no backup running backs are going to be called upon to spell Gore, I'm not entirely sure what you consider "punch". I consider scoring "punch" and personally I haven't seen really any from the Niners this year. It's possible they are "hiding" it and are going to unleash it in the season, but if your idea is a couple drives followed by a FG as "punch" best of luck to you. They weren't any sort of offensive juggernaut last season either Future, so you can skip the "punch" from last year as well. You aren't talking with someone, that wasn't watching last season, that offense was pretty damn anemic last year, and I haven't seen improvements this year, so until they actually do so, I'll go ahead and assume they haven't improved.

[Futureite]

I would be concerned about the pass defense, not impressed with the players, I understand the soft zone coverage, but I'm not entirely sure without the pressure that a Smith and Bowman add to that mix, that the DB's can have much success. Isn't like they haven't been shredded before, and I didn't see much in the way of upgrades there over the off season. Without the "press" of the front seven, if I was a Niners fan I'd be pretty damn nervous right about now. There seems to be a shifting of priorities in Santa Clara right now, and that is more punch on offense, and I just haven't seen much in the way of that punch, which could be a major hurdle early in the season for them. Might indeed work out for the best for them, but from what I've witnessed, it sure hasn't seemed like it.

How can you say the O hasn't had much punch when the starters played 7 snaps yesterday. Crabtree played 3. There is sn article on SB Nation that details it. These are all playmakers with an established history. In fact, if you look at what our O did when healthy, it put up more points V your D than the top 5 Saints and Bronco Os did. Put up 23 at the Panthers. It's going to be a very productive O.

I've cited the examples of teams that moved on our D at will in the preseason in 2011 and 2012. Like the examples I used with Boldin and our D performance when Aldon/Willis missed time last yr, you either acknowledge them or dismiss them. Our pass D certainly wasn't bad last yr. It was rated #7 overall. We have added pieces to it that are upgrades, IMO.

There are no guarantees with any team, including the one you root for. Preseason blowouts in your favor or against have proven not to be predictive of anything. We will all just have to wait a couple more weeks to see.

I'm not discussing last season am I? Takes time to work new players into a system, and unless you are claiming that only the 6th through 9th string receivers have been on the field, and that no backup running backs are going to be called upon to spell Gore, I'm not entirely sure what you consider "punch". I consider scoring "punch" and personally I haven't seen really any from the Niners this year. It's possible they are "hiding" it and are going to unleash it in the season, but if your idea is a couple drives followed by a FG as "punch" best of luck to you. They weren't any sort of offensive juggernaut last season either Future, so you can skip the "punch" from last year as well. You aren't talking with someone, that wasn't watching last season, that offense was pretty damn anemic last year, and I haven't seen improvements this year, so until they actually do so, I'll go ahead and assume they haven't improved.

I just posted that you can see how many snaps VD, Crab, Boldin, Gore and the rest of the starters actuslly played. It was a handful of snaps. They moved the ball right down the field on Raven D on the first drive of preseason. I put zero stock in preseason, but even based upon what occurred in it there is nothing to suggest our O has any issues. They are not scoring points because uncle Rico is taking over after one or two series.

You are also ignoring the fact that Marlon Moore and Kyle Williams were our starting WRs for a good portion of 2013. When Crab came back we put up 400+ yds of O on the road v the Cards. When healthy the yr before our O was 9th overall if I am not mistaken. So I see no reason why we will not have a great yr on O.

Yes, I do expect a team with this much O talent to score and move the ball a lot. I understand the premise of why it cannot always falls back to Kaep sucks here, but obviously I disagree on that issue. This team plays almost no one in preseason and it shows nothing. If Carroll wants to play RW an entire half V that same Denver D until he sees what he wants, that is one approach. If you want to argue that even your backup Oline and WRs + QB played or are better than ours, that's fine too. I feel very confident in the starting talent and depth of our entire O across the board.

[Futureite]

Let me pose the same question to you:

Yes, we have some questions at D. But do you not have the same questions on O? The Oline has several question marks. The receivers have several unproven players. Even Christine Michaels may have slid back down the depth chart. You may feel you have the answers on paper, but that's not much different than the replies I am giving you in response to the questions that you pose.

I remember last yr we were outscored 56-10 in the 2nd and 3rd game combined. Now already people are citing 57-3 in the preseason. I mean, really? In the preseason? It's as if history is forgotten by the second nowadays.

Every single yr here it seems I read or here how much we lost. In 2011 we were obvioudly going nowhere bringing Alex back and relying on braylon Edwards as our number 1. In 2012 we were going to take a step after all the close wins the yr before. Last year we lost Moss, MM, Walker, Crabtree. We were going to implode, fall apart and especially after a 1-2 start and Aldon sitting for an indefinite period of time.

No matter how many MM blown knees, KH blown achilles heels, Culliver ACLs or Dason Goldsons leaving for free agency yr after yr after yr we have players that replace them and we keep winning. I wonder if some of you are ever just going to admit that the staff knows what it is doing and the team isn't going anywhere for a long time.

[Distant Relative]

Preseason or regular season, 34 to 0 is flat out embarrassing.

[HumanCockroach]

Let me pose the same question to you:

Yes, we have some questions at D. But do you not have the same questions on O? The Oline has several question marks. The receivers have several unproven players. Even Christine Michaels may have slid back down the depth chart. You may feel you have the answers on paper, but that's not much different than the replies I am giving you in response to the questions that you pose.

I remember last yr we were outscored 56-10 in the 2nd and 3rd game combined. Now already people are citing 57-3 in the preseason. I mean, really? In the preseason? It's as if history is forgotten by the second nowadays.

Every single yr here it seems I read or here how much we lost. In 2011 we were obvioudly going nowhere bringing Alex back and relying on braylon Edwards as our number 1. In 2012 we were going to take a step after all the close wins the yr before. Last year we lost Moss, MM, Walker, Crabtree. We were going to implode, fall apart and especially after a 1-2 start and Aldon sitting for an indefinite period of time.

No matter how many MM blown knees, KH blown achilles heels, Culliver ACLs or Dason Goldsons leaving for free agency yr after yr after yr we have players that replace them and we keep winning. I wonder if some of you are ever just going to admit that the staff knows what it is doing and the team isn't going anywhere for a long time.

What are ya' new? OF COURSE we have the same questions, there is literally hundreds if not thousands of posts regarding those questions. So YES those questions are there on our part ( at least as a whole), difference here is, that Seattle hasn't looked absolutely shell shocked even with those questions lingering, and has showed progress across the board, hasn't had trouble scoring, and the QB has indeed led the offense ( even without multiple starters) into the end zone ( and against the same said team no less), without Lynch, without Harvin, without 3/5ths of his line etc. Your offense didn't, and hasn't broken the plane, once. Seattles backups have done so as well, with guys that simply will not be on this team.

[Futureite]

Let me pose the same question to you:

Yes, we have some questions at D. But do you not have the same questions on O? The Oline has several question marks. The receivers have several unproven players. Even Christine Michaels may have slid back down the depth chart. You may feel you have the answers on paper, but that's not much different than the replies I am giving you in response to the questions that you pose.

I remember last yr we were outscored 56-10 in the 2nd and 3rd game combined. Now already people are citing 57-3 in the preseason. I mean, really? In the preseason? It's as if history is forgotten by the second nowadays.

Every single yr here it seems I read or here how much we lost. In 2011 we were obvioudly going nowhere bringing Alex back and relying on braylon Edwards as our number 1. In 2012 we were going to take a step after all the close wins the yr before. Last year we lost Moss, MM, Walker, Crabtree. We were going to implode, fall apart and especially after a 1-2 start and Aldon sitting for an indefinite period of time.

No matter how many MM blown knees, KH blown achilles heels, Culliver ACLs or Dason Goldsons leaving for free agency yr after yr after yr we have players that replace them and we keep winning. I wonder if some of you are ever just going to admit that the staff knows what it is doing and the team isn't going anywhere for a long time.

What are ya' new? OF COURSE we have the same questions, there is literally hundreds if not thousands of posts regarding those questions. So YES those questions are there on our part ( at least as a whole), difference here is, that Seattle hasn't looked absolutely shell shocked even with those questions lingering, and has showed progress across the board, hasn't had trouble scoring, and the QB has indeed led the offense ( even without multiple starters) into the end zone ( and against the same said team no less), without Lynch, without Harvin, without 3/5ths of his line etc. Your offense didn't, and hasn't broken the plane, once. Seattles backups have done so as well, with guys that simply will not be on this team.

Lol! I Honestly I cannot believe we are debating how anything looks in preseason. But let's go there anyhow.

Russell Wilson played the entire friggin first half against the Broncos. I followed along on ESPN tracker almost as closely as I follow the Niners live. The outcome was not quite as rosy as you are painting it to be. One TD drive was almost exclusively gained from penalties and others stalled. I could take your approach and say "RW only threw 6 TDs in the final 7 games of the season/postseason and hasn't thrown 1 yet in the preseason. Based on preseason, I see no reason why this trend will change. He's going to throw 15 TDs and the Hawk O will struggle when the opposing D keys on Lynch". I mean, you are drawing about the same parallel with our O and Kaep.

But in reality, Kaep has played 3 series. The entire preseason. THREE. We have no one in, Uncle Rico is missing wide open guys and handing the ball to career practice squader Jewell Hampton, and you're assessing our entire O on it. These are observations I expect on NFL.Com, not here.

I have no idea how our team will look or yours. I have hunches. None of it is based on preseason.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah its preseason. But when you hang up a goose egg opening the doors to the big zipper for the first time....yeah you should be embarrassed.
Lets just say I enjoyed seeing it happen. I dont know if the 9ers are in trouble or not but I sure hope so. 0-16 would be delicious but 7-9 will do...

[HumanCockroach]

Guess it's just impossible to say "my offense hasn't looked good" and be done with it. Don't really care all that much, it's your problem not mine, I'm basing it on how I would feel about the performance, you're happy with it? So be it, you want to blame a single player? Fine. That's your cross. I was saying what I saw, and how I saw it. I felt I was pretty damn fair with the concerns I would feel if I happened to be a Niner fan, if you have no worries so be it, if that is the "punch" on offense you expect, I am perfectly fine with it. Please stop insisting the "starters" have only played three series though, as you and I both know damn well that there has been several that have indeed played more than three series ( using that same theory, I could claim that the Seattle "starters" haven't played a SINGLE series yet if I so chose, because multiple key starters, haven't played a single snap yet).

[Futureite]

Guess it's just impossible to say "my offense hasn't looked good" and be done with it. Don't really care all that much, it's your problem not mine, I'm basing it on how I would feel about the performance, you're happy with it? So be it, you want to blame a single player? Fine. That's your cross. I was saying what I saw, and how I saw it. I felt I was pretty damn fair with the concerns I would feel if I happened to be a Niner fan, if you have no worries so be it, if that is the "punch" on offense you expect, I am perfectly fine with it. Please stop insisting the "starters" have only played three series though, as you and I both know damn well that there has been several that have indeed played more than three series ( using that same theory, I could claim that the Seattle "starters" haven't played a SINGLE series yet if I so chose, because multiple key starters, haven't played a single snap yet).

Did you go to SB Nation 49er page to see the breakdown of snaps by starters? I guess what you're saying is that Anquan Boldin, Michael Crabtree, S. Johnson, Vernon Davis, Frank Gore and Bruce Miller are not going to produce this yr. OK, noted. Sorry if I don't give a shyt how the rest of the guys looked. The ones wbo will actually be counted on as reserves look good, including V. McDonald, Carlos Hyde, Bruce Ellington, Adam Snyder. I think our O is fn loaded top to bottom and no amount of quoting how the backups to the backups backups look will change that opinion. Why? Because it's based on things like statistics, probowl recognition, and past history.

And yes, even in the preseason starting O of Boldin, Crab, VD etc has put us in scoring position 3 times. Yes, would have been nice to punch in 3rd and 1 at the 3 for a TD in Baltimore or convert the 2 Fgs yesterday. You can celebrate Rico's or JJ's work all you like. I will be celebrating our O all yr in the real games.

[HumanCockroach]

Let me pose the same question to you:

Yes, we have some questions at D. But do you not have the same questions on O? The Oline has several question marks. The receivers have several unproven players. Even Christine Michaels may have slid back down the depth chart. You may feel you have the answers on paper, but that's not much different than the replies I am giving you in response to the questions that you pose.

I remember last yr we were outscored 56-10 in the 2nd and 3rd game combined. Now already people are citing 57-3 in the preseason. I mean, really? In the preseason? It's as if history is forgotten by the second nowadays.

Every single yr here it seems I read or here how much we lost. In 2011 we were obvioudly going nowhere bringing Alex back and relying on braylon Edwards as our number 1. In 2012 we were going to take a step after all the close wins the yr before. Last year we lost Moss, MM, Walker, Crabtree. We were going to implode, fall apart and especially after a 1-2 start and Aldon sitting for an indefinite period of time.

No matter how many MM blown knees, KH blown achilles heels, Culliver ACLs or Dason Goldsons leaving for free agency yr after yr after yr we have players that replace them and we keep winning. I wonder if some of you are ever just going to admit that the staff knows what it is doing and the team isn't going anywhere for a long time.

What are ya' new? OF COURSE we have the same questions, there is literally hundreds if not thousands of posts regarding those questions. So YES those questions are there on our part ( at least as a whole), difference here is, that Seattle hasn't looked absolutely shell shocked even with those questions lingering, and has showed progress across the board, hasn't had trouble scoring, and the QB has indeed led the offense ( even without multiple starters) into the end zone ( and against the same said team no less), without Lynch, without Harvin, without 3/5ths of his line etc. Your offense didn't, and hasn't broken the plane, once. Seattles backups have done so as well, with guys that simply will not be on this team.

Lol! I Honestly I cannot believe we are debating how anything looks in preseason. But let's go there anyhow.

Russell Wilson played the entire friggin first half against the Broncos. I followed along on ESPN tracker almost as closely as I follow the Niners live. The outcome was not quite as rosy as you are painting it to be. One TD drive was almost exclusively gained from penalties and others stalled. I could take your approach and say "RW only threw 6 TDs in the final 7 games of the season/postseason and hasn't thrown 1 yet in the preseason. Based on preseason, I see no reason why this trend will change. He's going to throw 15 TDs and the Hawk O will struggle when the opposing D keys on Lynch". I mean, you are drawing about the same parallel with our O and Kaep.

But in reality, Kaep has played 3 series. The entire preseason. THREE. We have no one in, Uncle Rico is missing wide open guys and handing the ball to career practice squader Jewell Hampton, and you're assessing our entire O on it. These are observations I expect on NFL.Com, not here.

I have no idea how our team will look or yours. I have hunches. None of it is based on preseason.

Psst. Wilson played exactly two series in the Bronco game ( Manning had a nine minute drive, followed by a nine minute drive lead by Wilson)

In total Wilson has played five series (to Kaps three) thrown nineteen passes, completing fifteen, and has lead the offense to four touchdowns and a field goal ( that would be four of five scoring drives) Kaepernik meanwhile has completed 6 of 11 for 54 yards and led the Niners to three points total. Now you can claim "all of the first half" but I'm not sure you can dock him for having a long sustained drive resulting in points, nor can you dock him for Manning doing so against the defense, can you?

seems to me, being "happy" with less than 60%, and a single FG, and then attempting to claim how much "more" Wilson time Wilson has "had" is silly. Kaepernick had two series against that same team, and came away with nada , Wilson had two series against the Bronco's and came away with a TD. Seems pretty comparable to me, in the grand scheme of things, and Wilson had even MORE missing starters than the Niners did, AND were playing IN Denver, in a game that I guess mattered to them for some reason or other. You do the math on this one Future, simply no way, to claim any type of efficiency edge do to missing players or series on this one.

[HumanCockroach]

Guess it's just impossible to say "my offense hasn't looked good" and be done with it. Don't really care all that much, it's your problem not mine, I'm basing it on how I would feel about the performance, you're happy with it? So be it, you want to blame a single player? Fine. That's your cross. I was saying what I saw, and how I saw it. I felt I was pretty damn fair with the concerns I would feel if I happened to be a Niner fan, if you have no worries so be it, if that is the "punch" on offense you expect, I am perfectly fine with it. Please stop insisting the "starters" have only played three series though, as you and I both know damn well that there has been several that have indeed played more than three series ( using that same theory, I could claim that the Seattle "starters" haven't played a SINGLE series yet if I so chose, because multiple key starters, haven't played a single snap yet).

Did you go to SB Nation 49er page to see the breakdown of snaps by starters? I guess what you're saying is that Anquan Boldin, Michael Crabtree, S. Johnson, Vernon Davis, Frank Gore and Bruce Miller are not going to produce this yr. OK, noted. Sorry if I don't give a shyt how the rest of the guys looked. The ones wbo will actually be counted on as reserves look good, including V. McDonald, Carlos Hyde, Bruce Ellington, Adam Snyder. I think our O is fn loaded top to bottom and no amount of quoting how the backups to the backups backups look will change that opinion. Why? Because it's based on things like statistics, probowl recognition, and past history.

And yes, even in the preseason starting O of Boldin, Crab, VD etc has put us in scoring position 3 times. Yes, would have been nice to punch in 3rd and 1 at the 3 for a TD in Baltimore or convert the 2 Fgs yesterday. You can celebrate Rico's or JJ's work all you like. I will be celebrating our O all yr in the real games.

I didn't say any such thing, you are getting defensive. Re read my posts, tell me where I said how YOU should feel, I said where MY concerns would be if I was a Niner fan. Believe whatever the hell you want to believe. We'll see, but I'm not going to pretend that they have looked good, nor am I going to pretend like I don't have a right to express a RESPECTFUL non name calling opinion on the subject. Guess that whole "play nice" thing was just words huh? Alright then.

[HumanCockroach]

By the way Future, this is the WORST two game stretch in the Harbaugh era, even in the 2011 season they did not lack this amount of continuity, and performance, and THAT was his first season in a strike shortened year. Any way you want to attempt to spin this, it simply isn't good. It can get better, and better quickly, but stop with the missing starters, or stars, or series numbers excuse, EVERY team is dealing with that stuff, it isn't exclusive only to the 49ers.

[Zorn76]

The final score was amusing, but reflects nothing in terms of how the 49ers regular season is gonna go, IMO. It's still us and them for the division.

Period.

[jshawaii22]

Yes Future, the final score may have Zero to do with anything coming up, but no doubt that from the owner's on down to the towel boys, losing the first game by laying a big GooseEgg on the field was not exactly what they had in mind on opening night of the 1B+++ investment for Santa Clara and the NFL.

Lots of big money, big sponsors, politicians, former players and the little people who could afford 'seat licenses' were at the game, the first game, the opening of the stadium game, the first time they sat in their sky boxes or got to see what their 75k seat licenses actually paid for... And the coach, players and GM will take the brunt of the comments, good or bad. I'll bet the next practice is at a much higher level, just like Pete did to the Seahawks after the loss to Denver.

Future, maybe it didn't matter in the overall scope of the season, but it had to be embarrassing, 'preseason' or not! Classic kick buttowski. And we all loved it.

js

[THX-1138]

The final score was amusing, but reflects nothing in terms of how the 49ers regular season is gonna go, IMO. It's still us and them for the division.

Period.

Not to pick nits or start any type of argument Zorn, but I do think it means a little something. Scoring ZERO points--at all--in front of a sellout in the very first game in your brand new stadium would be worrisome to me if I were a Niner fan. If your first, second, third, or even fourth string can't find the motivation to kick a field goal that is not a good thing. And if it's not motivation but poor kicking execution or conditions (looked like a beautiful day to me) that is further troubling.

Of course wins mean virtually nothing in preseason. But it's hard to gauge how well your team performs in scoring opportunities when it doesn't actually score. And it may mean nothing in the regular season. But why even bother with the games if nothing is going to mean anything?

[Futureite]

Yes Future, the final score may have Zero to do with anything coming up, but no doubt that from the owner's on down to the towel boys, losing the first game by laying a big GooseEgg on the field was not exactly what they had in mind on opening night of the 1B+++ investment for Santa Clara and the NFL.

Lots of big money, big sponsors, politicians, former players and the little people who could afford 'seat licenses' were at the game, the first game, the opening of the stadium game, the first time they sat in their sky boxes or got to see what their 75k seat licenses actually paid for... And the coach, players and GM will take the brunt of the comments, good or bad. I'll bet the next practice is at a much higher level, just like Pete did to the Seahawks after the loss to Denver.

Future, maybe it didn't matter in the overall scope of the season, but it had to be embarrassing, 'preseason' or not! Classic kick buttowski. And we all loved it.

js

Well ya, I conceded that it was a little embarrassing. But that's the only thing I really take from it. But to be honest, if someone had big expectations of watching a great football game Sunday then they deserved to be disappointed. The words "great" and "preseason" don't fit together. I think the reality is most people came to experience the stadium first time, not to watch a great football. Anyone that knows football understands that you miss the first 15 min in preseason, you've missed everything. Even politicians know that. It was more about being there for the grand opening. In fact, I almost paid $25 myself and drove over 100 mi to Santa Clara just to tour it.

Lol I think you guys would like it be more than what it was. There was some concern voiced by some fans, but that's life. There are morons everywhere that will complain even when you win. In reality, on a rating of good v aweful, the 24-3 loss in JH's 1st "real" game V the Saints in the 2011 preseason was much worse. Missed blocks, missed reads, int after int. Some of us wondered if JH could coach at this level. Turns out it meant nothing.

Turn on ESPN Sunday night football in 5 weeks for the real home opener at Levis. It's going to look a lot different.

[Futureite]

By the way Future, this is the WORST two game stretch in the Harbaugh era, even in the 2011 season they did not lack this amount of continuity, and performance, and THAT was his first season in a strike shortened year. Any way you want to attempt to spin this, it simply isn't good. It can get better, and better quickly, but stop with the missing starters, or stars, or series numbers excuse, EVERY team is dealing with that stuff, it isn't exclusive only to the 49ers.

I disagree. I think the worst 2 game stretch in JH's tenure was last yr when we were outscored 57-10 in the REGULAR SEASON. Trust me, I didn't even bother to read the threads here after that but judging by your preseason thesis, I am guessing you were beating the drum hardest to say we were done.

Lol! Are you serious man? I cannot tell if you are just FN with me or you are serious. It's hard to tell. You should take a cue from Zorn. He hates the 49ers with a passion, but he still remains objective. I hate the Seahawks, but I still see them as a contending SB team and will not change that opinion until reality forces me to. Reality being something other than pretend footall games with no gameplanning and no intensity.

I am going to let you ramble on with this theory but trust me, for once I will not let it go. I am going to bump this thread allll seasn long my friend. I am going Richard Sherman here with this lol!

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I'm definitely expecting the 49ers to compete, but I always remember the saying, "What you do in practice, you do in performance." If they don't put up some points in their 3rd preseason game, someone needs to light a fire under their tails. That is the dress rehearsal, and I can't imagine any team that would stay satisfied with continuing the same sub-par performance into the third preseason game.

[Futureite]

I'm definitely expecting the 49ers to compete, but I always remember the saying, "What you do in practice, you do in performance." If they don't put up some points in their 3rd preseason game, someone needs to light a fire under their tails. That is the dress rehearsal, and I can't imagine any team that would stay satisfied with continuing the same sub-par performance into the third preseason game.

I hear what you are saying and part of me agrees. The problem is that there isn't much of a correlation between a team's performance in game 3 of the preseason (or any preseason game) and their performance in the regular season. I have seen the 49ers tear it up in the preseasin and suck in the regular season. In 2010 we were 4-0 in the preseason and induvidual.players like Anthony Davis looked great. Glen Coffey led all preseason RBs in yds. Neither was indicative of the team's or Coffey's success.

The Coffey stat brings to light another false claim: "a deeper team will outperform the 2nd stringers on.othrr teams lste in preseasin games". That wasn't true with Coffey. It wasn't true with our LB Cam Johnson, who knotched 2 sacks and a blocked punt in his final preseason game of 2013. He was promptley traded for a 7th rd pick and to my knowledge has barely seen the field. Each guy excelled, but neither was better than any other team's backups.

The whole idea of preseason is that you look at how various players perform in various situations. It's an audition for some players, and based on past preseason success stories that failed, it's really difficult for us fans to know what the coaches are evaluating

[HumanCockroach]

By the way Future, this is the WORST two game stretch in the Harbaugh era, even in the 2011 season they did not lack this amount of continuity, and performance, and THAT was his first season in a strike shortened year. Any way you want to attempt to spin this, it simply isn't good. It can get better, and better quickly, but stop with the missing starters, or stars, or series numbers excuse, EVERY team is dealing with that stuff, it isn't exclusive only to the 49ers.

I disagree. I think the worst 2 game stretch in JH's tenure was last yr when we were outscored 57-10 in the REGULAR SEASON. Trust me, I didn't even bother to read the threads here after that but judging by your preseason thesis, I am guessing you were beating the drum hardest to say we were done.

Lol! Are you serious man? I cannot tell if you are just FN with me or you are serious. It's hard to tell. You should take a cue from Zorn. He hates the 49ers with a passion, but he still remains objective. I hate the Seahawks, but I still see them as a contending SB team and will not change that opinion until reality forces me to. Reality being something other than pretend footall games with no gameplanning and no intensity.

I am going to let you ramble on with this theory but trust me, for once I will not let it go. I am going to bump this thread allll seasn long my friend. I am going Richard Sherman here with this lol!

If that's what you think, your comprehension skills are abysmal. Show me ONE post where I have said anything other than if I was a fan of that team, I would be concerned with the lack of execution. I have steadfastly said in every post that the Niners are my teams competition, AND that pre season doesn't mean "diddly poo" , it doesn't mean squat in the standings, but it DOES mean something in how well a team is prepared. Sure a team can go 0-fer and win, or win all four and lose, that is NOT what I am talking about. The Niners Pre season record the last three years 8-4 Seattle 10-2 ( coming in to this season) I'm not going to state emphatically that that is some sort of true barometer, but being competitive does matter, even IF it is merely backups, it is a learning, and evaluating tool that coaches use to find players that can contibute, right now, SF hasn't had a consistent COMPETITIVE performance by really anyone.

Doesn't mean it matters, doesn't mean anything except they have looked bad in both games, but it shouldn't be so incredibly difficult for an OBJECTIVE fan to see that, and then SAY it, instead of throwing out every and all excuses they can find.

[HumanCockroach]

I did find this little interesting tidbit regarding the value of competitive pre season while brousing the net today.

"Only 5 teams in the last 15 years have won the Super Bowl after posting a negative point differential in the preseason (-19 is the worst net points after NE's -44).
Only 2 of the previous 15 Super Bowl winners have lost their first two preseason games. Those 2 teams (Saint Louis and Indianapolis) lost those 4 games by a combined 30 points."

[Zorn76]

The final score was amusing, but reflects nothing in terms of how the 49ers regular season is gonna go, IMO. It's still us and them for the division.

Period.

Not to pick nits or start any type of argument Zorn, but I do think it means a little something. Scoring ZERO points--at all--in front of a sellout in the very first game in your brand new stadium would be worrisome to me if I were a Niner fan. If your first, second, third, or even fourth string can't find the motivation to kick a field goal that is not a good thing. And if it's not motivation but poor kicking execution or conditions (looked like a beautiful day to me) that is further troubling.

Of course wins mean virtually nothing in preseason. But it's hard to gauge how well your team performs in scoring opportunities when it doesn't actually score. And it may mean nothing in the regular season. But why even bother with the games if nothing is going to mean anything?

Game 3 is where you get a better idea of where teams are at, and even then, it still only reveals so much. I just can't put much into August games. The Lions during one recent stretch (5 yrs or so) had the best preseason record over that time.

The bigger factors for SF concern Bowman's return and Smith's time missed via suspension. Those are 2 key players on that defense. Kendall Hunter is out for the year already, but I think they'll be able to adjust to that loss OK.

[HumanCockroach]

Fair enough, and I've said in numerous threads and posts that the niners will indeed be our stiffest competition, but history kind of flys in the face of them winning it all this season, and ultimately, that not the division should be the seahawks ultimate goal for now and the forseable future.

Personally I feel like they haven't improved, and it isn't like that is a new feeling that just crept up this past week or following week one of the pre season. Their are more not less holes in that team going into this season, than last, and I'm not going to say trading for Johnson, and signing Lloyd changes that much for me. Injuries, age, inexperience all play a factor amongst other things, and I've yet to see something that 'scares' me in any way in regards to that team. Doesn't mean they can't get scary real quick, but right now? Nope not in the least frightened that Seattle didn't do enough to maintain the edge.

[Zorn76]

HC - I hear ya.

And I agree that a playoff calibre team only gets so many chances within a short period of time to win it all. That's what made last year So Sweet for the Seahawks - they took full advantage of the home field that they worked hard to get - and won a Lombardi. Doesn't get any better than that.

The 49ers have come up short. It's those clutch moments in the biggest of games that haven't gone their way the last 3 seasons. We each have flaws - ours is primarily the OL - though we still managed to win it all last season anyway, and SF still has question marks with their secondary, among other things like the status of Bowman and Smith.

But all things being equal, I do think we have an edge going into this season. The leadership on the sidelines and in the huddle on both sides of the ball is as solid as they come. RW works puts as much time into his QB craft as anybody out there, and the defense possesses the wherewithal not to rest on their laurels.

I'm also curious about the 49ers' FO decision to table talks once again with Harbaugh until the end of the year. This isn't to say that their game planning or execution will be affected by his status, but it's never ideal to have a lame duck coaching scenario under any circumstances. The media loves drama, yes, but clearly there is some discord between the HC and GM. Is it enough to force a break up of this partnership? I dunno. If I'm SF, I can the GM before the coach, if push comes to shove.

Another X-factor is JH's intensity and the pressure he's under for 2014. It's another season of SB (win) or bust. And when your next contract is likely hanging in the balance in that sense, it's something that can be argued as beyond stressful. Harbaugh's a tough guy, and as somebody who's been around the league both as a starting QB and now HC, he understands the situation. I'm just curious how it pans out. IMO, to bring in a new (coaching) regime following this year would hurt more than it would help. Good HC's and GM's are hard to find, but I'd rather replace the latter between the two.

[obiken]

I had to watch the whole thing as pentance for not believing in Beast. What a yawner 4th quarter. IT was torture just staying awake!! Serves me right for my Rush to Judgement!!

obi