New "consistency" thread, former Johnny Football thread

[kalibane]

There is a balance. Generally speaking you'd rather have the talent because the hardest working guy in the world ain't cutting it in the NFL if he's 5'7" 150 lbs. But you do need to study. Only "Good Will Hunting" types(read: and extremely small subset of the population) can skate through life never having to dedicate time to their craft. Otherwise sooner or later everyone reaches a threshold where being really smart and able to pick up stuff quickly is no longer good enough.

If he were playing RB where the position is instinctual in nature, or a CB who was just a gifted one on one coverage specialist who was never put in a zone, or a pass rush specialist who gets put on the field and his only task is to go after the QB But a QB, an Offensive Lineman a WR... where you really need to understand route concepts, blocking responsibilities, diagnosing coverage, you need to work, especially a QB. If you don't there are a lot of smart people who spend their entire day breaking down your film, finding your tendancies and exploiting them. And if you don't understand what they are throwing at you, you're just going to end up being Vince Young.

You can get away with it for a couple seasons maybe if you have athleticism like Vick or Kaepernick, but Johnny Manziel, while athletic is not that much of a physical freak that he can overwhelm people with that athleticism. He'll need to study or he'll just end up a footnote in NFL history with a snappy nickname.

[Futureite]

There is a balance. Generally speaking you'd rather have the talent because the hardest working guy in the world ain't cutting it in the NFL if he's 5'7" 150 lbs. But you do need to study. Only "Good Will Hunting" types(read: and extremely small subset of the population) can skate through life never having to dedicate time to their craft. Otherwise sooner or later everyone reaches a threshold where being really smart and able to pick up stuff quickly is no longer good enough.

If he were playing RB where the position is instinctual in nature, or a CB who was just a gifted one on one coverage specialist who was never put in a zone, or a pass rush specialist who gets put on the field and his only task is to go after the QB But a QB, an Offensive Lineman a WR... where you really need to understand route concepts, blocking responsibilities, diagnosing coverage, you need to work, especially a QB. If you don't there are a lot of smart people who spend their entire day breaking down your film, finding your tendancies and exploiting them. And if you don't understand what they are throwing at you, you're just going to end up being Vince Young.

You can get away with it for a couple seasons maybe if you have athleticism like Vick or Kaepernick, but Johnny Manziel, while athletic is not that much of a physical freak that he can overwhelm people with that athleticism. He'll need to study or he'll just end up a footnote in NFL history with a snappy nickname.

Good points! I also believe humility is very important to becoming successful. I realize I have average talent in just about everything lol. Sucks but that's the way it is. So I have to work twice as hard. The most successful athletes in any sport are the ones that are insecure, always trying to improve. They are never satisfied with themselves, no matter what people tell them. Very few athletes have that inner humility, drive AND athletic ability.

[HumanCockroach]

Is that like the supermodel chick that used to be ugly? Lol

[kalibane]

Oh you mean the one sitting next to the devastatingly beautiful girl who never got dates in highschool because people were too intimidated to ask her out who in turn is sitting next to the unicorn?

[HumanCockroach]

Reference to shallow Hal."you've got a real find there my friend"..... Ultimately, EVERY player on that level has talent, what separates greats, is the drive to continue to work to "prove" themselves, even though they already have. Which is what separates players like Wilson, Sherman, Thomas etc. Most teams have some, few teams are as full as Seattle currently is, not sure if it's the culture they foster, or draft status, or lack of national media respect ( something tells me it is all of those things, plus many others) just know I'm happy as a pig in slop that they all seem to have that thought process.

[Futureite]

Is that like the supermodel chick that used to be ugly? Lol

Haha ya same concept. All the raw tools are in place and they are obsessed with making other people turn their head to look.

[HumanCockroach]

I do agree with the thought that these guys have to blow off steam, and live their lives, just seems to closely resemble guys that couldn't put the fun away when needed. Doesn't mean he is destined to be the next player to party their way out of the NFL or a long term back up role, just not probably the best decision to advertise it before you take a single significant snap in the NFL.

[HumanCockroach]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/20 ... hared=true

SMH... the great decisions go on and on and on.... suppose the kid could be just "making dumb kid mistakes", but to me, it looks as though he really isn't all that interested in being great, or even good.....

[RiverDog]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2098601-johnny-manziel-clowns-with-money-stack-cant-you-hear-you-over-all-this-paper?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming?is_shared=true

SMH... the great decisions go on and on and on.... suppose the kid could be just "making dumb kid mistakes", but to me, it looks as though he really isn't all that interested in being great, or even good.....

Are you sure the Leinart comparison is the closest one that applies to Johnny Football?

[Futureite]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2098601-johnny-manziel-clowns-with-money-stack-cant-you-hear-you-over-all-this-paper?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming?is_shared=true

SMH... the great decisions go on and on and on.... suppose the kid could be just "making dumb kid mistakes", but to me, it looks as though he really isn't all that interested in being great, or even good.....

Are you sure the Leinart comparison is the closest one that applies to Johnny Football?

Lol just go out and say it RD. "Only" difference is our guy said he's going to take care of his family with the money and keep his couch and bed as the most expensive things he owns. It has to suck that he keeps ruining the narrative. If only he could come up with a few more catch phrases about the road to success, you may even fully endorse him!

[RiverDog]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2098601-johnny-manziel-clowns-with-money-stack-cant-you-hear-you-over-all-this-paper?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming?is_shared=true

SMH... the great decisions go on and on and on.... suppose the kid could be just "making dumb kid mistakes", but to me, it looks as though he really isn't all that interested in being great, or even good.....

Are you sure the Leinart comparison is the closest one that applies to Johnny Football?

Lol just go out and say it RD. "Only" difference is our guy said he's going to take care of his family with the money and keep his couch and bed as the most expensive things he owns. It has to suck that he keeps ruining the narrative. If only he could come up with a few more catch phrases about the road to success, you may even fully endorse him!

You have a guilty conscious, Future. I had mentioned Ryan Leaf as a comparison to Manziel's rookie year and said nothing about Kaepernick. HC rightfully downgraded it to a comparison with Matt Leinart. But if you want to toss in Kaepernick's name into this discussion, then be my guest.

[HumanCockroach]

Um, I believe the comparison RD used was Leaf, someone is feeling insecure about a certain QB.


RD yeah, this was Leinarts problem from all the reports I read ( at least the partying and drinking) as for the douchbaggery, I guess you could compare him to others, but imo Leinart is the closest, at least at this point.

[Futureite]

Ok, ok. I do feel pretty stupid right now lol.

[RiverDog]

Um, I believe the comparison RD used was Leaf, someone is feeling insecure about a certain QB.


RD yeah, this was Leinarts problem from all the reports I read ( at least the partying and drinking) as for the douchbaggery, I guess you could compare him to others, but imo Leinart is the closest, at least at this point.

Leinart may still be a better comparison than Leaf, but the degree is different. Leinart did not take this party animal act to near the extreme that Manziel is taking it, at least not prior to having taken a single snap in an NFL game.

[HumanCockroach]

True, but, instagram, twitter, and FB weren't as prevalent at the time either. To be fair, supposedly Leinart grew up, but it derailed his career completely.

[NorthHawk]

It looks like there are some warning signs at this point, but I'm hoping he's one of those that can separate their career from their private life and do well in both.
If his college skills can translate to the NFL, he should be fun to watch.

[RiverDog]

True, but, instagram, twitter, and FB weren't as prevalent at the time either. To be fair, supposedly Leinart grew up, but it derailed his career completely.

Good point. Geez, just think about how nuts the social media would have gone had it been around when Joe Namath or Paul Hornung were in their primes.

[HumanCockroach]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ing-photo/

say it ain't so Johnny...... LOL.....

Seriously, is it to hard to have a guy that is in charge of taking peoples phones before you do the line?

[RiverDog]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/07/manziels-latest-vegas-trip-creates-an-interesting-photo/

say it ain't so Johnny...... LOL.....

Seriously, is it to hard to have a guy that is in charge of taking peoples phones before you do the line?

Well, if he's stupid enough to f*** around with snorting coke and risking a multi million dollar career, he's stupid enough not to insure that he's alone.

I don't know how the NFL's drug policy addresses testing for cause (ie reasonable suspicion), but I'd certainly would have been waiting him with one of those little plastic cups when he returned.

[HumanCockroach]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/21 ... hared=true

LOL, even Leinart doesn't want to be compared to Johnny..... still think it is the most appropriate.

[HumanCockroach]

Bump

[HumanCockroach]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/johnny-man ... d=25030665

AaaaHHH Johnny, SMDH.

( and RD I was going to start a new thread but remembered this one, so I decided to just post a continuation of his exploits here, not trying to just bump my own threads man)

WHAT is this Kid thinking? And honestly, I'm not sure how the staff still isn't sure whether he is ready to be the face of the franchise, a leader and the starting QB. IMHO a QB has to check this childish crapola at the door, ESPECIALLY on MNF. I CAN'T imagine this is going to go unnoticed by the NFL, stuff like this is bad for the "shield" every bit as much as a choke sign, or taunting or hell dunking a ball over the GP after a TD....

[c_hawkbob]

Just another example of his extraordinary decision making skills.

[FolkCrusader]

Orakpo said they were really letting him have it from the sidelines. The kid bit and overreacted. He'll pay the price no doubt.

Moving on...

[Futureite]

Lol I loved it. Not for the gesture but the moxie to do it. We'll see how he plays. That's the most important thing.

[THX-1138]

Lol I loved it. Not for the gesture but the moxie to do it. We'll see how he plays. That's the most important thing.

You have got to be kidding? Moxie? Oh yes, real ballsy stuff, flipping the bird. All of those 3rd graders who flip the bird on the playground are real gutsy types.

\What it actually shows is that Johnny Football is exactly the childish and immature character he has been portrayed as. A couple vets get in his ear on the sideline and he forgets to be a pro (if he ever was enough of one to remember). And he's not a very good QB.

[Anthony]

Lol I loved it. Not for the gesture but the moxie to do it. We'll see how he plays. That's the most important thing.

Your such a hypocrite you pick and choose who you try to vilify and who you appreciate. You can bet if one of our guys did it to your SF team you would be all did you see that, it proves you have no class, etc. But when it is done to someone else it is okay.

It takes no moxie to give the finger to another team , while you are on the field, that is being a coward and a punk for doing it in the first place.

[Futureite]

Lol I loved it. Not for the gesture but the moxie to do it. We'll see how he plays. That's the most important thing.

Your such a hypocrite you pick and choose who you try to vilify and who you appreciate. You can bet if one of our guys did it to your SF team you would be all did you see that, it proves you have no class, etc. But when it is done to someone else it is okay.

It takes no moxie to give the finger to another team , while you are on the field, that is being a coward and a punk for doing it in the first place.

Lol! Sorry man you crack me up. Always so angry.

I am sure many Niners and Hawks have flipped opposing players off during a game or said much worse to each other. The difference is, unlike your boy Richard, Manziel owned it afterwards and composed himself in the press. Richard just contunues on and on on Twitter and everywhere else. I am not at all surprised that you cannot discern between the actions of the two. You are too busy being perpetually pissed off.

I've never asserted that your team was full of thugs. Never complained about Sweezy's block on Ian that cost him the season, or Michael Robinson and whomever else sandwiching Kyle Williams on a kick return where he was on his knees smacking the ball in frustration and had given up the play - which concussed him and arguably f'd our 2011 postseason, or even what's his name's knee to delaney Walker's jaw in the same game, which broke it. If I wanted to call you out as "thugs" I could find plenty of excuses too.

But I didn't. Never have. End of discussion.

[HumanCockroach]

That post shows how skewed your view is Future, really nothing more. Regardless, Johnny didn't show a whole hell of a lot of professionalism in that instance, if your going to incessantly moan about Sherman 'hurting' others feelings, you should at the very least show some consistency. Odds are Manziel will get some sort of reprimand for this, Sherman received none for his 'bullying' seems to me, the league is more inclined to view these actions as we do here, not the way you choose to view them.

[Futureite]

That post shows how skewed your view is Future, really nothing more. Regardless, Johnny didn't show a whole hell of a lot of professionalism in that instance, if your going to incessantly moan about Sherman 'hurting' others feelings, you should at the very least show some consistency. Odds are Manziel will get some sort of reprimand for this, Sherman received none for his 'bullying' seems to me, the league is more inclined to view these actions as we do here, not the way you choose to view them.

I am consistent. I could care less about Sherman saying or doing X, Y and Z on the field. In fact, I did not even post much about his choke sign to Colin. I have always said that he takes it to a different level by getting personal off of the field. That does offend most rational people, and there is a huge difference betwen that and what is said/dine durung a game.

Exolain how professional Richard Sherman's screaming in Tom Brady's face was. You don't scream in another man's face ever unless you are prepared to get decked. Which Sherman has been, more than once. It absolutely is a bully tactic and he picked someone that he knew would not react.

I'd love to hear you justify and explain this one.

[c_hawkbob]

The only things you're consistent in are your extreme bias toward anything Niners and against anything Richard Sherman. Other'n that you're all over the place.

[HumanCockroach]

That post shows how skewed your view is Future, really nothing more. Regardless, Johnny didn't show a whole hell of a lot of professionalism in that instance, if your going to incessantly moan about Sherman 'hurting' others feelings, you should at the very least show some consistency. Odds are Manziel will get some sort of reprimand for this, Sherman received none for his 'bullying' seems to me, the league is more inclined to view these actions as we do here, not the way you choose to view them.

I am consistent. I could care less about Sherman saying or doing X, Y and Z on the field. In fact, I did not even post much about his choke sign to Colin. I have always said that he takes it to a different level by getting personal off of the field. That does offend most rational people, and there is a huge difference betwen that and what is said/dine durung a game.

Exolain how professional Richard Sherman's screaming in Tom Brady's face was. You don't scream in another man's face ever unless you are prepared to get decked. Which Sherman has been, more than once. It absolutely is a bully tactic and he picked someone that he knew would not react.

I'd love to hear you justify and explain this one.

Don't need to justify it or explain it, per you it happened ON the field. so it's fine, as was his interview ON the field following the last game with your team, AS was the CHEAP shot by the chump in Washington, you are the one claiming "on" the field, not I. Brady most certainly did NOT keep it "on"the field as he was spouting off BEFORE the game, Crabtree most assuredly did NOT keep it ON the field with his trash talk, or actions, yet they are the "victims" of Shermans ON field bullying? yeah, real, real consistent. LMAO

[kalibane]

Personally I couldn't care less about Johnny's finger. Doesn't bother me in the slightest but calling it Moxie and loving it when you wrote anthologies about what an F-You Richard Sherman extending his hand and saying "hell of a game" was.

The only consistancy you show is consistantly being inconsistant with your views.

Besides Moxie? Really all it showed was he let the Redskins sideline get in his head.

[Hawktawk]

LMAO only Future could turn a Manziel thread into a hate rant on Sherman.

I think the kid has more balls than brains. But he was the best QB on the field for Cleveland last night. Not that its saying much. Grossman would probably be more effective than either he or Hoyer right now.

And speaking of Hoyer where does it say that going 2 out of 3 as a starter last year makes it "his" team? Hes looked dreadful. Pettine has gotten sucked into this *competition* hook line and sinker. The alternating every two series was a joke as most observers noted. So was playing an unmotivated dead man walking Josh Gordon who looked like a man who didn't want to be on the field. Somewhere Rob Chudzinski is laughing.

Bottom line is Cleveland looks like another hair fire this year.Manziel is the only chance they have IMO.

[Anthony]

Lol I loved it. Not for the gesture but the moxie to do it. We'll see how he plays. That's the most important thing.

Your such a hypocrite you pick and choose who you try to vilify and who you appreciate. You can bet if one of our guys did it to your SF team you would be all did you see that, it proves you have no class, etc. But when it is done to someone else it is okay.

It takes no moxie to give the finger to another team , while you are on the field, that is being a coward and a punk for doing it in the first place.

Lol! Sorry man you crack me up. Always so angry.

I am sure many Niners and Hawks have flipped opposing players off during a game or said much worse to each other. The difference is, unlike your boy Richard, Manziel owned it afterwards and composed himself in the press. Richard just contunues on and on on Twitter and everywhere else. I am not at all surprised that you cannot discern between the actions of the two. You are too busy being perpetually pissed off.

I've never asserted that your team was full of thugs. Never complained about Sweezy's block on Ian that cost him the season, or Michael Robinson and whomever else sandwiching Kyle Williams on a kick return where he was on his knees smacking the ball in frustration and had given up the play - which concussed him and arguably f'd our 2011 postseason, or even what's his name's knee to delaney Walker's jaw in the same game, which broke it. If I wanted to call you out as "thugs" I could find plenty of excuses too.

But I didn't. Never have. End of discussion.

Hate to bust your bubble I am not angry at all, I just think your pathetic, and a hypocrite. Still waiting for your proof about Rw saying something that was very un PC you have ye to provide and never will. Of course as usual you still do not reply to the statement other than to make excuses, that they themselves prove my point. Oh an dude while you may not have actually called us a thug you have made plenty of statements eluding to it, now end of discussion.

[Anthony]

That post shows how skewed your view is Future, really nothing more. Regardless, Johnny didn't show a whole hell of a lot of professionalism in that instance, if your going to incessantly moan about Sherman 'hurting' others feelings, you should at the very least show some consistency. Odds are Manziel will get some sort of reprimand for this, Sherman received none for his 'bullying' seems to me, the league is more inclined to view these actions as we do here, not the way you choose to view them.

I am consistent. I could care less about Sherman saying or doing X, Y and Z on the field. In fact, I did not even post much about his choke sign to Colin. I have always said that he takes it to a different level by getting personal off of the field. That does offend most rational people, and there is a huge difference betwen that and what is said/dine durung a game.

Exolain how professional Richard Sherman's screaming in Tom Brady's face was. You don't scream in another man's face ever unless you are prepared to get decked. Which Sherman has been, more than once. It absolutely is a bully tactic and he picked someone that he knew would not react.

I'd love to hear you justify and explain this one.

LIAR ALERT, he made a big deal out of what happened after the NFCG

[Futureite]

Personally I couldn't care less about Johnny's finger. Doesn't bother me in the slightest but calling it Moxie and loving it when you wrote anthologies about what an F-You Richard Sherman extending his hand and saying "hell of a game" was.

The only consistancy you show is consistantly being inconsistant with your views.

Besides Moxie? Really all it showed was he let the Redskins sideline get in his head.

Lol! I posted that? Again, you inserted your own interpretation of what I posted.

What actually happened was Richard did in fact extend an eff you in the form of a phony handshake and YOU made an issue of it, not me. Why? So that you could focus on Crab's reaction to it and use it to justify Richard's rant afterwards. If rant never happens, no one - myself included - is discussing said handshake (and ass slap). And you know that. If there was a way of measuring the content of social media posts, I'd bet 75% of them regarding the handshake were made from the PNW.

I see what you did there, ol' switcheroo and such. At some point you are going to realize that while not a genius, I am able to think clear enough to see through complete BS . Until then I can keep pointing it out when you do it, if ya want.

[Futureite]

Hate to bust your bubble I am not angry at all, I just think your pathetic, and a hypocrite. Still waiting for your proof about Rw saying something that was very un PC you have ye to provide and never will. Of course as usual you still do not reply to the statement other than to make excuses, that they themselves prove my point. Oh an dude while you may not have actually called us a thug you have made plenty of statements eluding to it, now end of discussion.[/quote]

Oh, well I don't think you're pathetic. Or a hypocrit. No person is all one thing or another. But I wouldn't exactly day you are a ray of sunshine either. At least online. But you could be completely different in person.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Bryan Hoyer did nothing to improve his chances of being named the starting QB. Don't get me wrong, Manziel didn't look that great either. but, the main thing wrong that I saw Manziel do wrong, and consistently so was to throw behind the receiver. Some of those passes were caught, many were not. But almost all of them were catchable and a few of the passes dropped the receiver had had his hands on. Thrown behind him or not if a receiver gets his hands on the ball he should be able to reel it in, especially if it isn't a case where the defender manages to get his hand on the ball and keep the receiver from completing the catch.

Yes, there was a lot of flAGS thrown and several looked akin to the play where the NFL had to admit our DB's INT. should have counted. Way too many of the calls last night wete ticky tacky and the NFL is going to have a bad joke on their hands if they don't adjust that rule and tell the officials they have gone too far.

Yes, what Manziel did was immature, but, he will learn to not draw negative issues his way.

I believe that Richard Sherman has matured since the Super Bowl and I don't expect him to do any rants unless he is extremely provoked. Even if he is I would hope he would THINK before he gets diarrhea of the mouth again, no matter how "right" he thinks he is. I consider one of my greatest moments of personal growth from boyhood into manhood was when I realized that as soon as I lose my composure I have lost my argument, no matter how many "facts" that I might think I had in my favor. When you lose control, raise your voice, and especially if you resort to hurling insults most people simply tune you out, you've lost the debate.

Now, I stay calm, cool, and collected and let then other fool make him(or her) self looking totally idiotic bouncing off the walls while they rant and rave just waiting for them to run out of breath and then stepping up to the plate and knocking the ball out of the park.

[Hawktawk]

Its a strange dichotomy when you have players with absolutely filthy mouths yelling stuff all the time,F bombs, n word, gay slurs etc but if you sign it I guess its the made for TV thing. I really dont have much of a problem with it. Id worry more about the champagne baths in the fountain at Caesars Palace or rolling up the $20 in the bathroom in Vegas. Kid has got issues and flying the bird is the least of them. Hes still the starter IMO. At least he can run.