Seriously? LMAO

[HumanCockroach]

I guess if you can't beat them, can't copy them, and can't be them, blame them for playing the same way you do, but ten times better.... LOL

Deangelo can't cheat to be mediocre anymore ? Blame Seattle

Jones can't identify or draft or sign the talent necessary? Blame Seattle

Only in todays world is the words "aggressive defense" used as a derogatory phrase. Hey, NFL teams, Fans and coaches, you b!itched and whined and moaned, and GOT what you WANTED, to bad you weren't smart enough to figure out that your team was doing it MORE than Seattle, and as such, it would effect you MORE than Seattle. Your M-E-D-I-O-C-R-E defensive backs NEEDED that, ours, didn't, and have had zero issues adjusting, of the HUNDREDS of defensive holding and illegal contact flags thrown this pre season, Seattle has garnered ONE and that one was a BLOWN call. SMDH what rubes...

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-fo ... sive-rules

[Distant Relative]

I guess what it boils down to is.....Be careful what you ask for because it might bight you in the ass! I heard John Fox on radio saying he doesn' t like all the flags being thrown and wasn't a proponent of the new rule. Personally think the NFL is caving in to teams ........cause they suck and want to change the rules so they don't so much!

Roger sucks! Worst commissioner in NFL history IMO! Slowly but surely killing the game I love.

[Hawktawk]

I guess what it boils down to is.....Be careful what you ask for because it might bight you in the ass! I heard John Fox on radio saying he doesn' t like all the flags being thrown and wasn't a proponent of the new rule. Personally think the NFL is caving in to teams ........cause they suck and want to change the rules so they don't so much!

Roger sucks! Worst commissioner in NFL history IMO! Slowly but surely killing the game I love.

+1 Roger could suck start a Harley Davidson.What a clown.
It was telling hearing him before the SB smiling and telling McCauley"I think we have a Denver crowd". Then when the Hawks were beating them like a drum the camera panned Goody in the stands and he looked like he was passing a gallstone watching the Hawks dismantling his golden boy.
As has been said so well everyone tries to play like Seattle. They just dont have the athletes.


But watch out opening Thursday.....Watch out Seattle...

[Futureite]

I guess what it boils down to is.....Be careful what you ask for because it might bight you in the ass! I heard John Fox on radio saying he doesn' t like all the flags being thrown and wasn't a proponent of the new rule. Personally think the NFL is caving in to teams ........cause they suck and want to change the rules so they don't so much!

Roger sucks! Worst commissioner in NFL history IMO! Slowly but surely killing the game I love.

+1 Roger could suck start a Harley Davidson.What a clown.
It was telling hearing him before the SB smiling and telling McCauley"I think we have a Denver crowd". Then when the Hawks were beating them like a drum the camera panned Goody in the stands and he looked like he was passing a gallstone watching the Hawks dismantling his golden boy.
As has been said so well everyone tries to play like Seattle. They just dont have the athletes.


But watch out opening Thursday.....Watch out Seattle...

Actually I don't think anyone really tries to play like Seattle. Name the team that crowds the LOS and presses with their DBs as consistently as Seattle does AND has 2 or 3 corners who are over 6'2. You have to concede at the very least that they are built to play a very physical brand of football, and that is by design.

Now inevitably someone is going to reply yes they are physical but they can run too, have the fluid hip movement to stick smaller guys, etc. But C'mon. Yes, some guys are huge, agile, fast and fluid with amazing man cover skills, but they are once in a generation type guys like Rod and Deion. Byron Maxwell, Brandon Browner etc are not in that class. They had/have success because their skills and physicality are suited perfectly for what Carrol asks of them. And yes, they are also good players.

Having said all of that, other teams or players should not devalue Hawks' accomplushments. They did not win the SB by cheating. They won it because they were the best team, the best D. The secondary is good under any rules. Nonetheless, everyone outside of Seattle is curious how they will perform this yr.

[HumanCockroach]

I guess what it boils down to is.....Be careful what you ask for because it might bight you in the ass! I heard John Fox on radio saying he doesn' t like all the flags being thrown and wasn't a proponent of the new rule. Personally think the NFL is caving in to teams ........cause they suck and want to change the rules so they don't so much!

Roger sucks! Worst commissioner in NFL history IMO! Slowly but surely killing the game I love.

+1 Roger could suck start a Harley Davidson.What a clown.
It was telling hearing him before the SB smiling and telling McCauley"I think we have a Denver crowd". Then when the Hawks were beating them like a drum the camera panned Goody in the stands and he looked like he was passing a gallstone watching the Hawks dismantling his golden boy.
As has been said so well everyone tries to play like Seattle. They just dont have the athletes.


But watch out opening Thursday.....Watch out Seattle...

LOL, every team TRIES to play like Seattle in the defensive backfield, hence all those flags this pre season, the difference is Seattle continues to dominate the first five yards, while less talent.DB's like Deangelo, can't. I've said numerous times, that ALL dB's do it, difference is , they don't have the ability to do what Seattle does, which is to alter WR play consistently within the five yards. Simon ( our fourth corner) displayed that perfectly this past week to perfection, and was flagged, which was apologised for by the NFL as it was "perfect" technique.

People keep saying Seattle did it "more" but they always seem to forget the second word, which is "successfully", and honestly based on what I have seen, isn't about to change in the least.

Actually I don't think anyone really tries to play like Seattle. Name the team that crowds the LOS and presses with their DBs as consistently as Seattle does AND has 2 or 3 corners who are over 6'2. You have to concede at the very least that they are built to play a very physical brand of football, and that is by design.

Now inevitably someone is going to reply yes they are physical but they can run too, have the fluid hip movement to stick smaller guys, etc. But C'mon. Yes, some guys are huge, agile, fast and fluid with amazing man cover skills, but they are once in a generation type guys like Rod and Deion. Byron Maxwell, Brandon Browner etc are not in that class. They had/have success because their skills and physicality are suited perfectly for what Carrol asks of them. And yes, they are also good players.

Having said all of that, other teams or players should not devalue Hawks' accomplushments. They did not win the SB by cheating. They won it because they were the best team, the best D. The secondary is good under any rules. Nonetheless, everyone outside of Seattle is curious how they will perform this yr.

[jshawaii22]

Be careful using the terms 'the NFL changed the rules' against the Seahawks... no they didn't. No rules were changed or modified. They are just reemphasizing the interpretation of them so that PM can get his next and last ring and retire into the sunset.

I think, knowing how Pete used the very same rules to change how the defense plays, will now use them for our advantage on the offense. I really look for the passing game to take a big step forward this year.
js

[Futureite]

HC;

I will agree that all DBs try to hold to a degree. I will disagree that all DBs play Seattle's brand of ball.

For instance, Deangelo Hall's game is built on speed - not physicality. He is faster than any DB on Seattle and was a legit 4.3 guy coming out of VT. But at the same time he couldn't play Sherman's style even if he wanted to. They have a different skillset and they are asked to do different things.

Same can be said for say, a dome team with a high octane O. A lot of times you'll see teams like the Manning Colts who were built smaller upfront to take advantage of the noise, turf. They are built to play fast and from ahead after the O has built an early lead. You can say "all teams tried to do thst" but it's simply not true.

Hawks play a very physical brand of coverage, and they are not built to play any other way. The few receivers that have had success against them are in fact smaller speed guys (Young, Hilton) or shifty route runners (S.Johnson), and that buoys my point. They play very physical at the line and downfield, and some have said a little too physical.

The real test is not how many flags they avoid in preseason, but rather if they can maintain last yr's success in the regular season. I cannot wait for Thursday V GB to find out.

[jshawaii22]

....Hawks play a very physical brand of coverage, and they are not built to play any other way. The few receivers that have had success against them are in fact smaller speed guys (Young, Hilton) or shifty route runners (S.Johnson), and that buoys my point. They play very physical at the line and downfield, and some have said a little too physical.

Future, that was far more true when Browner and WTIII were on the team. Browner, especially had no other choice but to grad and hold any time a receiver started to get by him as his game was to stop them at the line. It simply wasn't true during the second half of last year and into this preseason. We will adapt and have already shown, by a lack of penalties, that we can adapt. Maybe we will give up more yards and TD's this year, but so will everyone else.

The funny part is a lot of teams DID go out and try to draft / Sign FAs to emulate the 'old' Seahawks. I'm wondering what NE will do with Browner. They can't put him on as island, he'll sink.

js

[HumanCockroach]

Interesting you say all of that, the knock on Simon, Lane and Maxwell is that they weren't "physical" enough at the line of scrimmage like Browner was. Sherman does play physically, but to say that is his game is foolish, he does a LOT more than "beat up" receivers, Interesting also that you bring up Hilton and the like , because if you recall, it was BROWNER having issues with them ( which never changed, as he simply didn't have the speed to stay with those guys from day one) and you'll notice he no longer plays here, AND had ALREADY been replaced last season.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciated what Browner brought to the table, but this blanket dismissal of actual coverage skills by those that remain is laughable. As for Hall, maybe his game was built on speed, what of it? He is STILL grabbing , holding, directing receivers down the field, there seems to be some confusion on your part what constitutes illegal contact and holding, as that for the most part does NOT occur within five yards of the line of scrimmage, and whether a DB is "on the line" or "off" it doesn't MATTER in regards to those penalties.

My point is that fans ( like you) claimed it was happening "more" and it simply put wasn't, every DB, big or small, slow or fast, press or off, do it, are TAUGHT to do it, and NATURALLY do it. It isn't some "planned out" course of action 99% of the time, and more often than not occurs when looking for the football, while "maintaining" contact with the receiver to keep "tabs" on him( which interestingly enough is ALLOWED in the rules if it doesn't impede the receivers ability to catch or move, though that has been summarily ignored in this rush to "fix" the perceived Seahawks "cheating" ).

I'm not going to argue the point, because I don't have to. Seattle DB's played the SAME way numerous other DB's currently playing ( see Talib, and Revis for PRIME culprits of that type of play) if the complaint is "they do it more often" which is the gist I'm getting from comments I continue to read, I say tough SH!T that's a scheme thing, NOT a rule thing. Now people like Deangelo ( a never was very good CB that thinks a single game made him a shut down corner with a QB throwing the ball into his hands in a zone four times) are moaning about what exactly? That they can't do what they have ALWAYS done? Again tough sh!t evolve or get on down the road. Not feeling bad for ANY fan, DB or Coach that B!tched created this cluster only to realise that their players did it to and will now be flagged for it.

[Futureite]

Interesting you say all of that, the knock on Simon, Lane and Maxwell is that they weren't "physical" enough at the line of scrimmage like Browner was. Sherman does play physically, but to say that is his game is foolish, he does a LOT more than "beat up" receivers, Interesting also that you bring up Hilton and the like , because if you recall, it was BROWNER having issues with them ( which never changed, as he simply didn't have the speed to stay with those guys from day one) and you'll notice he no longer plays here, AND had ALREADY been replaced last season.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciated what Browner brought to the table, but this blanket dismissal of actual coverage skills by those that remain is laughable. As for Hall, maybe his game was built on speed, what of it? He is STILL grabbing , holding, directing receivers down the field, there seems to be some confusion on your part what constitutes illegal contact and holding, as that for the most part does NOT occur within five yards of the line of scrimmage, and whether a DB is "on the line" or "off" it doesn't MATTER in regards to those penalties.

My point is that fans ( like you) claimed it was happening "more" and it simply put wasn't, every DB, big or small, slow or fast, press or off, do it, are TAUGHT to do it, and NATURALLY do it. It isn't some "planned out" course of action 99% of the time, and more often than not occurs when looking for the football, while "maintaining" contact with the receiver to keep "tabs" on him( which interestingly enough is ALLOWED in the rules if it doesn't impede the receivers ability to catch or move, though that has been summarily ignored in this rush to "fix" the perceived Seahawks "cheating" ).

I'm not going to argue the point, because I don't have to. Seattle DB's played the SAME way numerous other DB's currently playing ( see Talib, and Revis for PRIME culprits of that type of play) if the complaint is "they do it more often" which is the gist I'm getting from comments I continue to read, I say tough SH!T that's a scheme thing, NOT a rule thing. Now people like Deangelo ( a never was very good CB that thinks a single game made him a shut down corner with a QB throwing the ball into his hands in a zone four times) are moaning about what exactly? That they can't do what they have ALWAYS done? Again tough sh!t evolve or get on down the road. Not feeling bad for ANY fan, DB or Coach that B!tched created this cluster only to realise that their players did it to and will now be flagged for it.

OK then that is where I'll disagree with you. I think the grabbing, holding etc was planned, is taught, and I believe it is because these guys are too big and lack the elite speed to stick certain receivers. I think Carroll brought these guys in specifcally to play physical at the line, and it just goes to reason that you cannot get everything in one package. Guys with elite size, skill and cover ability do not consistently get drafted in later RDs or migrate from the CFL.

I say none of this to dis you or your guys, but that is my honest ferling. In the game I went to at the Stick Thursday Night I noticed this. Your DBs were slapping, grabbing and pushing our receivers well beyond 5 yds. And it did not appeae to be something that every team does. It appeared to be a very specific style of play. Keep in mind this is before the whole "LOB" name took hold or this issue became a national narrative. I honestly turned to my friend more than once and said "how is that not PI??"

Now I am just a fan observing, but I think there is something to it when so many football people have pointed it out. Will the ramped up enforcement hurt them? I have no clue. If I had to wager I would say no. At least not to the point that they become a subpar group. But the only way to find out is to watch the season play out.

[HumanCockroach]

"Guys with elite size, skill and cover ability do not consistently get drafted in later RDs or migrate from the CFL."

Your sort of right, you forgot to add "anymore" to that , or did you think that the size bias extended only to positions like QB or WR? Pretty much ALL DB's that played corner were, what is now considered "undersized" "athletic" players, Seattle has completely changed the way teams, see and value DB's. There are REASONS the players that Seattle employs "slid" to later in the draft. Thurmond ( coming off severe knee injury) Sherman ( only played the position for one year) Simon ( character issues) Maxwell ( not physical, only viewed as zone coverage guy and possible depth guy) Lane ( viewed as possible practice squad small college question mark) Browner( viewed as to slow, safety project, or possible LB, was also ON a team in the NFL for a full season prior to playing in the CFL, so obviously SOMEONE saw value in him).

Again, you are simply dismissing the play with some lame "I saw this TWO years ago" schtick ( and I'm going to guess it was a whole, whole lot of Browner) if you are claiming Sherman, and Thomas were doing a lot of holding, I call Bullish!t, they simply don't do it any more often than a Revis, or a Peterson ( by the way Peterson is BIGGER than both Sherman and Maxwell, so are you going to tell me he is built for physical play and can do nothing else? The guy you swore up and down was a better corner than Sherman because he is a "follower" ), just because people weren't willing to take that chance on those guys, doesn't mean they did not have it in them, using the same stupidity, I could claim a number of HOF guys weren't any good because you just don't find those players "there". LMFAO

[kalibane]

Future the NFL is a trend league. People did used to draft big corners. Rembere when Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent were patrolling the field in Philly? Deion and Kevin Smith?

The trend until recently was that the league believed that smaller, faster corners were the way to go. It was partly brought on by the domination of the cover 2 scheme and partly out of pure fear of 3-4 WR sets that started to rule the league. The Seahawks just decided to not follow and be trend setters instead. Browner is really the only corner who truly lacks hips and has to maul receivers to cover. The other guys all had extenuating circumstances. Sherman switched positions. Simon had injuries coming out of college that knocked him down.

If they didn't have those circumstances and they came out today there is no way that they would go in the 5th round because teams have seen that big corners are viable and now you're starting to see the trend reverse. Darqueze Denard is all of a sudden shooting up the draft board.

It's getting tiring seeing you cling to this media narrative like your life depended on it. Show me a play where a Seahawk DB was grabbing and holding down the field in the Super Bowl. If Seattle is so notorious how come they are one of the least affected teams by the flags during the preseason in the entire league? Stop taking talking points from ProFootball Talk... I swear it's like arguing politics with someone who watches Fox News and ONLY watches Fox News.

[NorthHawk]

All DBs are taught to impede the receivers a subtly as possible, just like all WRs are taught to push off to get the advantage.
The QBs are so good and the difference between being open or covered is so small that any advantage for either side means overall success.

I saw Michael Irvin showing Dez Bryant how to push off and not get caught. It's what they do and I'm sure DBs are shown how to hold or get in the way and not get caught just the same all across the league. The successful DBs are the ones that can do it the best.
It's just the way it is and always has been.

[HumanCockroach]

Yep, not according to some, but those are usually those mitigating jealousy or attempting to explain their jealousy, but as a whole, it is taught, and honestly it is natural, any person playing the sport for the first time touches the other player naturally when placed in that position, it's a natural instinct to attempt to touch that which you are not looking at, same reason a person puts his/her hand out in the dark ( granted that is a pretty simplistic explanation, but one that is applicable in regards to a natural human reaction).

[burrrton]

I will agree that all DBs try to hold to a degree.

Did the No Sh*t Department give you a call on that one, Future?

I will disagree that all DBs play Seattle's brand of ball.

They do, too, at least to the degree they *can*.

[Distant Relative]

15 yard misconduct flag on Future.

Still can't figure out why the dude lives on this board. Is the 9er's board that bad?

[HumanCockroach]

"Still can't figure out why the dude lives on this board. Is the 9er's board that bad?"

In word, yes, and it's even worse than normal, no matter what Future professes.

[Futureite]

Future the NFL is a trend league. People did used to draft big corners. Rembere when Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent were patrolling the field in Philly? Deion and Kevin Smith?

The trend until recently was that the league believed that smaller, faster corners were the way to go. It was partly brought on by the domination of the cover 2 scheme and partly out of pure fear of 3-4 WR sets that started to rule the league. The Seahawks just decided to not follow and be trend setters instead. Browner is really the only corner who truly lacks hips and has to maul receivers to cover. The other guys all had extenuating circumstances. Sherman switched positions. Simon had injuries coming out of college that knocked him down.

If they didn't have those circumstances and they came out today there is no way that they would go in the 5th round because teams have seen that big corners are viable and now you're starting to see the trend reverse. Darqueze Denard is all of a sudden shooting up the draft board.

It's getting tiring seeing you cling to this media narrative like your life depended on it. Show me a play where a Seahawk DB was grabbing and holding down the field in the Super Bowl. If Seattle is so notorious how come they are one of the least affected teams by the flags during the preseason in the entire league? Stop taking talking points from ProFootball Talk... I swear it's like arguing politics with someone who watches Fox News and ONLY watches Fox News.

I cannot show you a play in the SB. Your Dline was dominated the Bronco's Oline and was in Peyton's face by the time he hit his back foot. Mark schlereth pointed this out as THE determinate factor in Hawks' domination. That game worked Carroll's scheme to absolute perfection, as your bigger and more physical DBs crowded the LOS and your D-ends slashed in Peyton's face.

Now when the opposing QB is given time, we've seen LOB give up 30+ to Indy. Give up 30 to ATL and drop a lead. Of course the logical response is that any secondary will get beat if the opposing QB has enough time, but look at the WRs who have beaten them. Titus Young = career day. Ty Hilton = career day. Is that a coincidence, or are these guys built to play a certain style of ball in a certain system.

And HC, you brought up Peterson. Yes, he is huge, fast and has great man coverage skills. He was also a highly sought after 1st round pick who everyone knew about.

I will clarify; I do not expect a big dropoff in LOB or most likely any dropoff at all. But we are all curious outside the PNW to see how they will be effected.

[Futureite]

I will agree that all DBs try to hold to a degree.

Did the No Sh*t Department give you a call on that one, Future?

I will disagree that all DBs play Seattle's brand of ball.

They do, too, at least to the degree they *can*.

So coaches and players speaking about this are what . . .jealous? Worried about a dynasty? Why don't other SB winning franchises experience the same scrutiny? Cmon, that type of arrogance is reserved for Santa Clara.

When Justin and Aldon played the two man hold game, I never denied it. But I also knew Aldon was good regardless. Kinda the same concept here. If you deny your DBs doing this you are denying what a lot of other people are watching.

[HumanCockroach]

. Titus Young = career day. Ty Hilton = career day. Is that a coincidence, or are these guys built to play a certain style of ball in a certain system.

lol. see Brandon Browner. if you believe you saw Sherman and Maxwell getting torched by those guys, you're blind. Browner even was BENCHED in one of the games because of it, or is that a 'coincidence' but the other just obvious. You continue to prove that you simply are NOT watching these guys work, there are MORE circumstances involved and you are dismissing so much in order to 'prove' your point ( ie why the players drafted were available, for instance WTIII was rated as a FIRST round talent prior to his injury) that you are really simply proving how out of touch you are. Sherman and Maxwell do NOT make their living doing what Browner did, they simply don't, and ANYONE who is WATCHING without a bias, KNOWS it.

As for Peterson, whatever, where he was drafted does NOT matter in regards to whether you "get everything in the same package", how many HOF players have been "missed" ? The number is in the HUNDREDS and whether you believe it isn't possible or not, is irrelevant, it happens, and it happens OFTEN, so spare me the you can't find complete players after the first round horsecrapola.

[Hawktown]

or your in denial, Future, of following the sheeple who believe whatever they are told or want an excuse to blame someone.

[HumanCockroach]

I will agree that all DBs try to hold to a degree.

Did the No Sh*t Department give you a call on that one, Future?

I will disagree that all DBs play Seattle's brand of ball.

They do, too, at least to the degree they *can*.

So coaches and players speaking about this are what . . .jealous? Worried about a dynasty? Why don't other SB winning franchises experience the same scrutiny? Cmon, that type of arrogance is reserved for Santa Clara.

When Justin and Aldon played the two man hold game, I never denied it. But I also knew Aldon was good regardless. Kinda the same concept here. If you deny your DBs doing this you are denying what a lot of other people are watching.

NO ONE denyed they "did it" what people are denying is that they did it to the extent, people profess they did. They did NOT do it any more often than ANY other team ( INCLUDING yours) they simply did it more EFFECTIVELY, teams bitched and are NOW paying the price because they are learning that they relied on it more heavily than Seattle did. Seattle simply put has MORE talent in the defensive backfield than any other team in the NFL ( no matter what pundits attempt to spin with NE and Arizona) it's that simple, add in a number one pass pressure line, and you get a recipe for the type of dominance Seattle just displayed, people can't believe how good they are, and as such make up excuses to explain it ( guess what, this isn't the first time, being a bay area resident, I would surmise you've heard of Haynes and Hayes right? Multiple rules were changed because of those two, so spare me the no SB champions have that kind of effect garbage) MULTIPLE rules have been instituted to "even" the playing field, after a teams dominance, this is no different, with the exception that this will not severely adverse the Seahawks, and it WILL do so to average DB's like Hall ( or really bad would be more appropriate).

[Futureite]

HC;

So if everyone plays this style - and does so even to a greater degree than Seattle - why are they all complaing 'about' Seattle? Serves to reason that they'd have realized pounding the table for stricter enforcement would be counterproductive to them. I don't buy that, at all.

The only reasonable answer to that question is the arrogant premise that teams are afraid of Seattle and they believe the only way to beat them is to attack the strength of their team via the referees. Or some hokey theory like Goodell wants to see Brady, Rodgers or (insert QB) win a SB. Because a billion dollar a yr + business needs to do that to survive. The conspiracy BS is the absolute worst.

The most plausible answer is actually that they do what I, Aikman, Jones, JH, Hall (insert name) have watched them do with our own eyes. And let's not even pretend JH felt the need to go to the refs with this to beat the Hawks, because at the point he brought it to the league they were a 4-4 team that had not beaten him yet.

Anyway you slice it, whether you agree or disagree there is a widely held perception that Seattle does this to a greater degree than any other team.

And if we are talking preseason (again), yes Hawks are not getting penalized. I also noticed Peyton was like 11-13 v the Hawks with a 90 yd TD drive. Again, coincidence? I put zero stock into preseason, but since you do that stat is worth mentioning.

[burrrton]

Why don't other SB winning franchises experience the same scrutiny?

Er, did you miss that the Hawks didn't even make the 'example' reel? Does that count as "scrutiny"?

EVERYBODY. DOES. IT.

When Justin and Aldon played the two man hold game, I never denied it.

I don't deny we do it- I just watch enough NFL football to know EVERYBODY. DOES. IT.

[kalibane]

If you noticed that game so much Future you also probably noticed that he wasn't beating the Seahawks down the field. He was doing what he typically does beating people underneat where the same excuses you made for your starters not being there apply to the Seahawks. No Wagner, no Irvin, no Kam bringing the Hammer.

I guess those excuses only apply to San Franscisco as usual.

Remind me again what the Chargers accomplished against the first team defense. Oh yeah that's right nothing.

[HumanCockroach]

Yep, there is a "perception" and now teams that had that perception are realising how dumb their mistake was. Perception isn't always accurate, Future, I would hope you are smart enough to understand the difference between the two. Perception often times what people WANT to believe, reality is what is actually happening. Figure it out.

[Futureite]

If you noticed that game so much Future you also probably noticed that he wasn't beating the Seahawks down the field. He was doing what he typically does beating people underneat where the same excuses you made for your starters not being there apply to the Seahawks. No Wagner, no Irvin, no Kam bringing the Hammer.

I guess those excuses only apply to San Franscisco as usual.

Remind me again what the Chargers accomplished against the first team defense. Oh yeah that's right nothing.

Well then it sounds like preseason means nothing. Which is what I believe. I brought uo his numbers in Re: to Seattle being the least penalized secondary in preseason. In preseason - which means nothing - Peyton looked the same V your D as he did V ours. And ours is purportedly going to suck according to so many accounts.

I am not predicting anything. Like I said, if you asked me to put money on it I'd bet we see no dropoff in LOB. But I do not belueve the entire football world has imagined this or ginned it up to punish Seattle. It's been a national narrative for quite awhile now.

[Futureite]

Yep, there is a "perception" and now teams that had that perception are realising how dumb their mistake was. Perception isn't always accurate, Future, I would hope you are smart enough to understand the difference between the two. Perception often times what people WANT to believe, reality is what is actually happening. Figure it out.

And why would people want to believe that about Seattle? Is there a logical response to that question other than "because they're too good"? I haven't scrolled through these posts, but if that has been suggested it's rudiculous.

I agree perception is often not based upon anything factual. There are a lot of factors that can influence it, especially in.a media driven business like the NFL. That is why I say I am more curious than anything to see how LOB performs. They do the ewuivalent of dangling their toes, arms and entire torsoe iver the grant canyon when it comes to aggressive DB play. Sherman slaps with his arms the second a receiver has a step, gets little tugs in on in routes, arm hooks, etc. You may be right that ut's "technically" legal, but it's about as close to falling of the metaphorical cliff as a player can get. We all see it, and whether right or wrong that is the perception. What I saw Thursday Night in my opinion was PI and a lot if it, by any definition. And if every team had played that style I wouldn't have even noticed.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt. But I am very intrigued for this game 1. I still believe it's Sea 20 GB 12.

[HumanCockroach]

Yep, there is a "perception" and now teams that had that perception are realising how dumb their mistake was. Perception isn't always accurate, Future, I would hope you are smart enough to understand the difference between the two. Perception often times what people WANT to believe, reality is what is actually happening. Figure it out.

And why would people want to believe that about Seattle? Is there a logical response to that question other than "because they're too good"? I haven't scrolled through these posts, but if that has been suggested it's rudiculous.

I agree perception is often not based upon anything factual. There are a lot of factors that can influence it, especially in.a media driven business like the NFL. That is why I say I am more curious than anything to see how LOB performs. They do the ewuivalent of dangling their toes, arms and entire torsoe iver the grant canyon when it comes to aggressive DB play. Sherman slaps with his arms the second a receiver has a step, gets little tugs in on in routes, arm hooks, etc. You may be right that ut's "technically" legal, but it's about as close to falling of the metaphorical cliff as a player can get. We all see it, and whether right or wrong that is the perception. What I saw Thursday Night in my opinion was PI and a lot if it, by any definition. And if every team had played that style I wouldn't have even noticed.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt. But I am very intrigued for this game 1. I still believe it's Sea 20 GB 12.

Yes, that is EXACTLY why they would want to believe it, though it is because they are to good, at THAT aspect of the game( ie they do it BETTER not MORE). You want to pretend that the rules don't change because of the ability of a few to do something that the rest of the NFL does, better, you don't know much about football ( the head slap comes IMMEDIATELY to mind as does Stick um) the NFL has a LONG tradition of doing so, the fans have a LONG tradition of complaining about it, as does NFL coaches ( you would think someone that watches his DL hold on almost every down, and has been called out on it would understand that)

[kalibane]

Oh Future stop when the rest of the league is getting 3-7 holding/contact penalties per game but the team you claim it's going to hurt the most hasn't only 3-4 in three games your argument becomes pretty flimsy. They just shut out the Bears first team and they didn't have a single defensive penalty while the 1s were in. The Broncos 1s moved the ball easily last year in preseason too. How did that manifest itself in the Super Bowl.

Preseason means nothing in terms of how good a team is and if you remember I was sticking up for the 49ers in that discussion in agreement with you. It does mean something though or teams wouldn't use it to decide position battles. Maybe just maybe the perception is overblown... well not really maybe it is overblown. They are more physical than the rest of the league but the idea that they hold and push on every play is just ridiculous.