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by **Long Time Fan** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:40 am

Who's happy with the the 3-2 start? Who's happy with the quality of play that belies a winning record? Who is surprised that the Seahawks are getting the best that opponents have to offer this championship defending season? The hunter is now the hunted.

Buck up, all is not lost. For starters, the Seahawks have run a gauntlet of an opening schedule; the schedule softens a bit going forward.

Next, the seahawks seem to have misplaced their offensive identity, but for the most part the personnel is still there; getting back to a run heavy offense will go a long way to curing TOP and Fourth quarter defensive collapses.

My guess is that the desire to make use of Harvin is at the root of many of the offensive ills. The offense is out of sync as attempts at manufacturing a unique role for Percy have gone bust. Put Harvin in the slot and let him slant open or stretch the field.

On defense, Pass Rush, Pass Rush, Pass Rush. The Seahawks have opposed good qbs that counter the blitz well. Going forward, more creativity must be used to get to QBs; stunts, blitzes, redeploying Bruce Irvin.

Clean up the penalties, get healthy, and play Seahawk football.

Adversity reveals character (some say builds it). This team must now show it has character and is more than just an assortment of characters.

by **Uppercut** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:05 am

I certainly hope you are right! I have more bellicose thoughts. The O Line is not where it needs to be and it is reflecting on every other aspect of play. I do think Dallas is a much improved team that could go the distance but we should have won by a small margin. We can now got sour or good, if things do not get ironed out I could see another 5 losses on the schedule. If they get ironed out maybe 2 losses.

by **Distant Relative** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:19 am

They tried to hard to use PH in the running game. Dallas was prepared for it yet the Hawks refused to abandon that part of their game plan. That cost them the game IMO. Stretch the field and pound the rock.

by **HumanCockroach** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:02 pm

Distant Relative wrote:They tried to hard to use PH in the running game. Dallas was prepared for it yet the Hawks refused to abandon that part of their game plan. That cost them the game IMO. Stretch the field and pound the rock.

This, simply no valid excuse for Lynch getting ten total carries ( baring an injury which wasn't reported, discussed or acknowledged) against the worst rushing defense in the NFL. Zero. Everyone in that stadium and watching KNEW he needed the ball, for some reason the Hawks coaching staff, couldn't see it.

by **Hawk Sista** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:33 pm

I know Lynch has back issues -maybe that's part of the issue???? I also realize that Zach & Max were out & just heard Okung has been playing w/ a torn labrum (on 710 ESPN - not sure how true or how bad it is) No matter how you slice it, turbo Ain't Lynch & the whole fly sweep thing works when you use it it infrequently not as a game plan. The excuse of not having the ball more is irritating. Two games we've gone away from the run and twice we've lost.

by **Long Time Fan** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:08 pm

Hawk Sista wrote:Two games we've gone away from the run and twice we've lost.

Both losses have glaring TOP disparities. The defense suffers at the diminishment of the run game. Bevell's pre-season proclamation of Running back by committee has morphed into less ML, less winning.

My concern is that there seemed to be a predetermination preseason to use less ML. If that forethought was predicated on the idea of saving his wear and tear for extending his viability into future seasons then I fine with that. If, however, the idea of less ML was advanced to in preparation to save on his future salary obligations, then I have a problem with that.

I prefer more ML, more winning. These damn championship windows close too damn quickly to let salary considerations impact on field performance.

by **Zorn76** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:48 pm

Long Time Fan wrote:Who's happy with the the 3-2 start? Who's happy with the quality of play that belies a winning record? Who is surprised that the Seahawks are getting the best that opponents have to offer this championship defending season? The hunter is now the hunted.

Buck up, all is not lost. For starters, the Seahawks have run a gauntlet of an opening schedule; the schedule softens a bit going forward.

Next, the seahawks seem to have misplaced their offensive identity, but for the most part the personnel is still there; getting back to a run heavy offense will go a long way to curing TOP and Fourth quarter defensive collapses.

My guess is that the desire to make use of Harvin is at the root of many of the offensive ills. The offense is out of sync as attempts at manufacturing a unique role for Percy have gone bust. Put Harvin in the slot and let him slant open or stretch the field.

On defense, Pass Rush, Pass Rush, Pass Rush. The Seahawks have opposed good qbs that counter the blitz well. Going forward, more creativity must be used to get to QBs; stunts, blitzes, redeploying Bruce Irvin.

Clean up the penalties, get healthy, and play Seahawk football.

Adversity reveals character (some say builds it). This team must now show it has character and is more than just an assortment of characters.

Well said.

I'm especially with you on the pass rush. The LOB has had some issues, but Nobody in the league can cover opposing receivers for 5-6 seconds consistently. The lack of pressure by the DL/LB has really stood out in both losses.

Offensively, pass protection is still poor, and they need to change the setting for Harvin from "gimmick" to "WR".

Among other things, they needed to throw deep more often yesterday, even if it involves RW rolling to his right to make the throw. Send Percy on a straight fly pattern and see what happens. Bevell made no adjustments to the type of game that was in front of us. It was clear early on that this was going to be a dog fight, and instead he chose stay with a very vanilla approach, save for a very dumb play call that saw Walters used on some goofy option on a key 2nd down and drive.

Good news is, these things can be overcome quickly. Bevell has called some solid games this season, and we know what our guys are capable of. It's a marathon, not a sprint. We'll still be there in the playoffs, and a very legit shot at retaining the division title, even if we are 2 games back of AZ right now.

Meanwhile, Go Rams!

LOL

Go Hawks !

by **Hawk Sista** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:43 pm

TOP is key, of course. 3rd down conversions on both side have not been converted/stopped like we need them to be to have the consistency we'd like.

I thought Bevel's rbbc comments were to introduce Michael as the future replacement for Lynch. He's reportedly über dynamic in practice. Anyway, I was worried about the eventual shift away from Lynch in future seasons. I had NO EFFIN IDEA he really meant right now (I know, neithe Michael or Turbin have gotten many shots either- nor do I want them to get a ton of carries, save injury to the Beast.)

I realize it's more complicated than it appears from the couch. As if this chubby lezbo w/ cancer's list of what to do to win in the NFL are the answers Pete, Quinn & Bevel need to hoist another Lombardi. (Though I did play powder puff - both sides of the ball too

.)But there is no doubt that there exists a symbiotic relationship between the O & the D, and you cannot expect to be successful on either side if you fail to perform on 3rd down. Our formula of pounding the rock and sprinkling in interesting fly sweeps or down the field shots seems to have gone by the wayside. This year they are doing the opposite which puts more pressure on the D. And our D has some issues of their own... They surely didn't need to be on the field for 3/4 of either of our two losses.

We have not been great at getting after the QB which forced errors resulting in take-overs. Also, Kam's at 50% and 3 of our top 4 corners are in the ice tub. It strikes me that heavier doses of rushing is step #1 of healing what ails us. Worst case scenario is it's 3rd & 5 versus 3rd & 11.

I have to wonder if #24 is hurt.

by **Hawktawk** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:51 pm

I have to wonder if #24 is hurt.[/quote]
He sure doesn't look hurt when hes in there. He was vibrating every time he got the ball. Dallas played him tough on the few carries he had but he popped one good one. Our D held down their rushing game at times but they kept going at it and busted the huge run late.As for Micheal what the hell happened? I'm about to put out an amber alert for him. Is he in the secret witness protection program? :} That game had San Diego written all over it except it was at home in 60 degree weather.

Sis that whole post was an excellent analysis. I will add one thing regarding our lack of pressure. HOLDING. Jeezus on the TD to Witten we had a guy getting undressed, waving his hands at the ref and nothing. Don't misunderstand this game wasn't all about officials but Seattle is being held virtually every passing play. They didn't draw a single flag on MNF.

All we have to see is the league and media totally riding Dallas jock to know we are the red head step child of the league elite. There was joy around the league watching us lose and there will be no sympathy from the officials going forward. Its not going to be easy to repeat.

by **HumanCockroach** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:57 pm

Hawk Sista wrote:I know Lynch has back issues -maybe that's part of the issue???? I also realize that Zach & Max were out & just heard Okung has been playing w/ a torn labrum (on 710 ESPN - not sure how true or how bad it is) No matter how you slice it, turbo Ain't Lynch & the whole fly sweep thing works when you use it it infrequently not as a game plan. The excuse of not having the ball more is irritating. Two games we've gone away from the run and twice we've lost.

I almost could swallow it if it was Turbo receiving 10 carries as well, at least then they are running at that suspect rushing defense, but that wasn't what happened. I just don't see an excuse for that in this game....

by **Hawk Sista** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:37 pm

Agreed.

by **Hawk Sista** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:07 pm

Not counting the weird plays to Percy & Walters, we had 14 rush attempts. 10 (yes, only 10) for Lynch for 61 (6.1 per carry); Russel was 2 for 12 (6 YPC) and Turbo was 2 for 10. That's 14 rushes for 83 yards.

by **Hawktawk** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:13 pm

Hawk Sista wrote:Not counting the weird plays to Percy & Walters, we had 14 rush attempts. 10 (yes, only 10) for Lynch for 61 (6.1 per carry); Russel was 2 for 12 (6 YPC) and Turbo was 2 for 10. That's 14 rushes for 83 yards.

My god that's amazing and Bevell was the only guy in the stadium that didn't notice we were averaging 6 ypc between the tackles. It was hard to watch. Bevell over thinks it way too often.

by **mykc14** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:36 pm

What makes all that worse is the fact that it wasn't some anomaly that we were able to run against them. They are one of the worst teams in the league against the run. Our game plan should have been centered on running the ball. We took an early lead. We should have run the ball. Its pretty simple, when you face the worst team in the league against the run you should... wait for it... RUN THE BALL.

by **NorthHawk** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:41 pm

Someone has to grab him by the lapels and say in no uncertain terms we are a run first team, it's our bread and butter, and don't forget it.

by **HumanCockroach** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:18 pm

Hawk Sista wrote:Not counting the weird plays to Percy & Walters, we had 14 rush attempts. 10 (yes, only 10) for Lynch for 61 (6.1 per carry); Russel was 2 for 12 (6 YPC) and Turbo was 2 for 10. That's 14 rushes for 83 yards.

What is actually pretty creepy to me ( like scary bad) is that between Harvin, Walters and Russell they almost matched the amount of carries ( 10 to 7) something seriously F'ld up with that game plan, seriously f'ld up, add the dumb arse bubble screens and those three surpass Lynch's carries ( IMO a bubble screen really is just a running play) , I simply can't fathom that game plan, in any game honestly, but PARTICULARILY against Dallas. Bevel seems to do this every three to four weeks, and I can almost tell you which ones they are, based almost entirely on losses the last two season ( almost). Sometimes Seattle "overcomes" it, but honestly, think back to the games Seattle ran the ball well, and often, but they still lost. They are few and far between, but neglect the run almost entirely? Usually ends up in a loss ( see Arizona, St. Louis, San Diego, Dallas etc) honestly the ONLY game I can think of where they ran the ball well, and still lost, was Indy last season, beyond that, I don't remember one in the last two seasons.

by **obiken** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:25 pm

Harvin is underrated and overrated I have never seen such type in all my years watching NFL FBall. Moreover, last year we had Tate and a lot of others pick up the slack, we don't have that this year.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:11 am

I'm pretty down on our chances at this point. We've just lost a game at home to a non playoff team that we should have beaten anywhere in the world let alone in our own house. Like others, I could rationalize away the San Diego loss and Denver taking us to OT. But you can't excuse this loss to the Cowboys. It was a cold slap in the face. We are not a SB quality team, at least not at this point heading into Week 7. Now we have two straight games on the road against some pretty fair defenses that have given us trouble in the past. We'll be lucky to get a split.

It's gut check time for this team. I said earlier that we'll see how guys like Harvin respond when we hit a dead spot. Well, we're here. This is an adverse situation, the first one we've really faced in a long time. The next few weeks will be very telling.

by **mykc14** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:28 am

RiverDog wrote:I'm pretty down on our chances at this point. We've just lost a game at home to a non playoff team that we should have beaten anywhere in the world let alone in our own house. Like others, I could rationalize away the San Diego loss and Denver taking us to OT. But you can't excuse this loss to the Cowboys. It was a cold slap in the face. We are not a SB quality team, at least not at this point heading into Week 7. Now we have two straight games on the road against some pretty fair defenses that have given us trouble in the past. We'll be lucky to get a split.

It's gut check time for this team. I said earlier that we'll see how guys like Harvin respond when we hit a dead spot. Well, we're here. This is an adverse situation, the first one we've really faced in a long time. The next few weeks will be very telling.

Although I do agree with some of your points Dallas clearly is a playoff caliber team I don't think anybody would question that. At the same time we should be able to take care of a one win team, even if it is a team that has given us trouble in the past. Two straight 10 AM starts are going to be tough but I wouldn't say we would be lucky to get a split, but we better figure this out quick or we could be looking at an uphill battle.

by **c_hawkbob** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:31 am

Down on our chances? Seriously?

Our chances are just as good as they have ever been (unless you're talking about our chances at an undefeated season). Our prospects may not be as bright as at the beginning of the season, but we've still got as good a chance as anyone.

3-2 is no more of a disaster than 2-2 was.

by **HumanCockroach** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:37 am

Uggh. Throwing in the towel with 11 games left? Seriously? Well they've been written off, guess now they can do what they did last season when written off after the struggles against Houston, Indy or St. Louis. Blah.

by **Hawk Sista** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:50 am

I agree Bob. But, if some things don't change in a hurry... I dunno. Last year we hit our stride, then faltered and bit it again. I'm not so concerned about the losses as I am about the root causes for those losses. All the aforementioned +a whopping Failure to pressure the QB (a QB w/ a bad back and we can't get there??), failure to stop drives at the most critical points, lack of depth on the o-line and at corner (and we clearly need both) and IMHO, the play calling. What the eff were we doing going for it on 4th and 6 DEEP in their territory w/ almost 3 minutes?

I'm not throwing in the towel by any stretch. Just concerned. 3-2 is not a disaster, but we'd really like HFA and we squandered away two winnable games. HFA is a hard thing to get.

by **HumanCockroach** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:57 am

The Seahawks have issues, surprise people, all teams have issues, and Seattle had them last season as well. Whether teams can figure them out in time or not, often times dictates the success of a season. RD was saying similar things last season, and it panned out fine, I would recommend a little patience prior to writing off this team, or proclaiming doom for the season. No one here can say how or what the season will be, right now, for all any of us know they reel off 11 straight wins and finish 14-2 wait, and see what kind of play happens in the next two weeks before writing off the season. SMH.

by **Long Time Fan** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:06 am

RiverDog wrote:I'm pretty down on our chances at this point.

Wow. I'm curious, is this realism in your mind or do you acknowledge a pessimistic bent?

The 2005 Superbowl bound Seahawks that finished their regular season at 13-3, began their season at 3-2.

Yes, this 2014 version of the Seahawks is a different team with different challenges than last year's Superbowl winning team, but, but, but, the preponderance of leadership and talent remains intact. Add to that the experience and growth of a still relatively young team and still we hear the moans of the unfaithful. By that I am not criticising other fans, I just mean that there are those who lose faith in a team that is still in transition with their new reality as defenders of a championship.

Maybe some of you are like me in that I can not wait until this Sunday when the Seahawks play the rams knowing that there are better days ahead.

by **mykc14** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:07 am

HumanCockroach wrote:The Seahawks have issues, surprise people, all teams have issues, and Seattle had them last season as well. Whether teams can figure them out in time or not, often times dictates the success of a season. RD was saying similar things last season, and it panned out fine, I would recommend a little patience prior to writing off this team, or proclaiming doom for the season. No one here can say how or what the season will be, right now, for all any of us know they reel off 11 straight wins and finish 14-2 wait, and see what kind of play happens in the next two weeks before writing off the season. SMH.

I definitely agree with this post, especially about the struggles we had last year, we can all point to at least 3 or 4 games we could have lost where we didn't play very well. For me the major difference, this game, was how we lost. I would not be surprised to see us win 5 of 6 or something like that but we haven't seen a game like this from our Hawks in the past few years. It was just different to see RW, the receivers off, the O-line, and D-line off all game at the same time. In the past when one of those areas had struggled we were able to pick them up in other aspects. In the long run this game could mean nothing, and I hope that's the case.

by **Hawk Sista** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:20 am

Really, outside of the Green Bay game, we have had to compensate for mistakes and other issues. We were used to dominating teams at home. We were dominated. And we were man-handled in the Charger game too - but we chalked that up to being away in 120 degree heat. Then we let the donkeys back in w/ a few big plays and we chalked that up to Peyton being Peyton. Then, we almost squander a game against Washington w/ sloppiness and we chalk it up to officiating and at least we found a way to win.

Again, I ain't throwing I. The towel, but we need to realize we are not the same team at this point. If we had that 05 o-line, I'd bet a thousand bux on us right now. But we don't.

by **Long Time Fan** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:33 am

mykc14 wrote: It was just different to see RW, the receivers off, the O-line, and D-line off all game at the same time. In the past when one of those areas had struggled we were able to pick them up in other aspects.

And yet they lost by a single touchdown.

Expectations are high. Fine. But can we at least acknowledge that with so much going wrong last Sunday; RW playing a rare bad game, poor game planning, more egregious penalties, untimely injuries, that we were in the game till the end.

Dallas played well, Seattle didn't. And Still it took a freakish conversion of a 3rd and 20 for the Cowboys to go on top in the 4th quarter. That single play turned the game; it took an amazing escape by Romo, an unbelievable throw, and a near miraculous toe-tapping catch to beat us on the day the Seahawks underperformed their trend of play.

Let the loss go. The sky is not falling. The mood around here will change within the week when the Hawks are 4-2. Next week, the Seahawks will be no more guaranteed of a Superbowl return that some will crow for in this forum after the next win, nor are they destined to miss the playoffs at this low ebb. This version of the seahawks will earn our faith.It will be a fun season.

by **Long Time Fan** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:41 am

Hawk Sista wrote:
Again, I ain't throwing I. The towel, but we need to realize we are not the same team at this point. If we had that 05 o-line, I'd bet a thousand bux on us right now. But we don't.

I share your concerns about the O-line. This is the team's achilles. But, I think it can improve provided Unger returns to health.

OK, there have been un-stellar performances in the first five games. The Seahawks have been in a position to win each of those games. Which is more likely, that the Seahawks trend at a level of play similar to the Dallas game, or that they trend to a level of play seen in the green Bay and Denver games?

This is a good team playing the occasional bad game; not a bad team playing the occasional good game.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:22 pm

Long Time Fan wrote:Wow. I'm curious, is this realism in your mind or do you acknowledge a pessimistic bent?

The 2005 Superbowl bound Seahawks that finished their regular season at 13-3, began their season at 3-2.

Yes, this 2014 version of the Seahawks is a different team with different challenges than last year's Superbowl winning team, but, but, but, the preponderance of leadership and talent remains intact. Add to that the experience and growth of a still relatively young team and still we hear the moans of the unfaithful. By that I am not criticising other fans, I just mean that there are those who lose faith in a team that is still in transition with their new reality as defenders of a championship.

Maybe some of you are like me in that I can not wait until this Sunday when the Seahawks play the rams knowing that there are better days ahead.

Keep in mind that I'm qualifying my statement by saying "at this point." We're only going into Game 6 of a 16 game regular season, and no one's going to run away with the division, indeed, 5 of our 6 divisional games come in the 2nd half of the season. It's also important to note that we had a couple of key players, ie Miller and Unger, that were either hurt or lame. No way am I giving up or throwing in the towel. I'll still be glued to the tube come this Sunday.

But from what I saw Sunday, combined with the loss to the Chargers and the problems we had at home vs. the Broncos, I have to be honest in expressing my sentiments that this does not look like a playoff caliber team to me, let alone a SB contender. I feel a lot worse about our chances of repeating now than I did after that first game against the Packers.

by **HumanCockroach** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:04 pm

Bit of a stretch to call the game with Denver a sign of many problems. After all Seattle performed BETTER than the SB for the bulk of the game against them. Again, sitting on a lead is STUPID, wish Bevell understood that.

by **mykc14** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:20 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Keep in mind that I'm qualifying my statement by saying "at this point." We're only going into Game 6 of a 16 game regular season, and no one's going to run away with the division, indeed, 5 of our 6 divisional games come in the 2nd half of the season. It's also important to note that we had a couple of key players, ie Miller and Unger, that were either hurt or lame. No way am I giving up or throwing in the towel. I'll still be glued to the tube come this Sunday.

But from what I saw Sunday, combined with the loss to the Chargers and the problems we had at home vs. the Broncos, I have to be honest in expressing my sentiments that this does not look like a playoff caliber team to me, let alone a SB contender. I feel a lot worse about our chances of repeating now than I did after that first game against the Packers.

I have stated my worry about where we are right now, but I think it is also important to put into perspective how difficult our schedule has been up to this point in the season. The combined record of our opponents this season (not counting washington) is 18-5. I doubt you could find another team that has played a schedule that difficult (I know the niners have played a hard schedule, but not as quite as difficult as ours). I do agree I would have liked to have won all of those games but playing that tough of a schedule this early in the year takes its toll.

by **Futureite** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:03 pm

I want to chime in here. I heard the same "why aren't we pounding Gore" mantra just weeks ago. This theory is great and all if your D is playing lights out, forcing turnovers and creating great field position. Then you have plenty of time to wear down the opposing D. It worked here in 2011 and to a greater degree for Seattle in 2013. But you can't pound a team when your own D cannot get off the field.

Dallas was controlling most of that game with both Murray and the other scat back (name escapes me) and a very balanced pass attack. Aside from Lynch's 30+ yd run most handoffs to him or Turbin resulted in 2nd or 3rd and long. Dallas stacked upfront and basically dared Seattle to beat them through the air, and they could not do it. Result was ball going right back to Dallas for their mamoth Oline to pound. Again, this is going to happen when you are physically outmatched upfront on D.

We have had a lot of debates about big passing numbers and stats. Well, this was a game tailor made for a QB to take over and put up 250-300+ yds. Obviously, it ain't as easy as some people make it sound. All those passing attempts for "volume" throwers often occur because said QB is converting 1st downs and creating more opps for his O/pass attempts for himself.

I would expect RW to have a pretty good day V Rams. They are another team that is strong upfront on D (hell, our line couldn't move them all night), they crowd the box and will force RW to beat them. It is a game that is tailor made for him to have a huge day, and if the Hawks instead choose to pound Lynch all game it is going to be what no fan wants - a close road game V a div rival.

by **Long Time Fan** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:22 am

Futureite wrote: But you can't pound a team when your own D cannot get off the field.

This point is almost flawless.

The only problem with it is that it was posted on a football forum, where you might encounter people who, well you know, might watch football. Some of us might even have watched the game in question, where clear to anyone's perspective the Seahawks needed to run the ball more. You see the Seahawks do well when they run the ball. ML gained 61 yards on 10 carries and that happens to be a pretty good average per carry. And if the Seahawks could sustain even an average per carry well under that, well then they might have controlled the ball and the clock limiting the time their defense would have to be on the field.

Anyway, good point. Nearly flawless.

by **HumanCockroach** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:15 am

Pretty straight forward observation, though someone might indeed point out, if your team runs the ball successfully, the opposing offense has the ball less, your defense is fresh and not on the field for the entire game, while theirs is, which anyone that watches football, knows can entirely change the course of a game.

TOP is a hugely ignored statistic, and is KEY to a teams success. SD held the ball for 42 minutes, Dallas 39 minutes. Part of that is failure to get off the field, however, part of that is the offenses refusal to run the football, and garner their own long drives. It is a chicken and the egg question, but one that can at least be mitigated by allowing the defense time to make adjustments, and catch their breath once in a while.

by **mykc14** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:33 am

Futureite wrote:I want to chime in here. I heard the same "why aren't we pounding Gore" mantra just weeks ago. This theory is great and all if your D is playing lights out, forcing turnovers and creating great field position. Then you have plenty of time to wear down the opposing D. It worked here in 2011 and to a greater degree for Seattle in 2013. But you can't pound a team when your own D cannot get off the field.

Dallas was controlling most of that game with both Murray and the other scat back (name escapes me) and a very balanced pass attack. Aside from Lynch's 30+ yd run most handoffs to him or Turbin resulted in 2nd or 3rd and long. Dallas stacked upfront and basically dared Seattle to beat them through the air, and they could not do it. Result was ball going right back to Dallas for their mamoth Oline to pound. Again, this is going to happen when you are physically outmatched upfront on D.

We have had a lot of debates about big passing numbers and stats. Well, this was a game tailor made for a QB to take over and put up 250-300+ yds. Obviously, it ain't as easy as some people make it sound. All those passing attempts for "volume" throwers often occur because said QB is converting 1st downs and creating more opps for his O/pass attempts for himself.

I would expect RW to have a pretty good day V Rams. They are another team that is strong upfront on D (hell, our line couldn't move them all night), they crowd the box and will force RW to beat them. It is a game that is tailor made for him to have a huge day, and if the Hawks instead choose to pound Lynch all game it is going to be what no fan wants - a close road game V a div rival.

LOL. This happens to the Hawks all the time and they have had little issue running it more than 2x in the first half. There is no excuse for that.

It is true RW had a RARE off game on Sunday but he wasn't the only one. Dropped passes hurt his numbers along with good plays from the D.

As much as you know about football it is odd that you would pick those two things out of everything that went wrong for the Hawks. If you would have said RW looked off or didn't play well we all would have agreed. Or if you would have said it was stupid the Hawks didn't attempt to run the ball more we would have agreed.

Supposedly I don't watch your team as much as you do but I know more about them then you some how. The niners CLEARLY were going to a more pass oriented offense for the first 3 games of the season and the CLEARLY decided to focus on the run the past three and look at the results. Despite your poor yards per rush last week you continued to pound the ball and it worked extremely well. How can you say we should have thrown the ball more when we had a great yards per rush average, come on!

by **Long Time Fan** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:56 am

RiverDog wrote:
Keep in mind that I'm qualifying my statement by saying "at this point." ........that this does not look like a playoff caliber team to me, let alone a SB contender. I feel a lot worse about our chances of repeating now than I did after that first game against the Packers.

You seem like a pretty sensible sort and you are clearly familiar with the historical parity that the NFL breeds, but I'd like to know what you think has changed so much from the core of this championship team that suggests that they might miss the playoffs this season?

I attribute two losses this season to poor game planning. The margin of victory by SD and Dallas suggest that even at their worst, the Seahawks can compete with anyone, anywhere. Maybe the margin for error has shrunk a bit, but I have no doubt that this is a playoff team. Schedule, injuries, transition of play style, target on their backs, potential complacency, penalties, are all in the mix as obstacles, but coaching, talent, experience, leadership, 12th man, pride are all there to overcome the same challenges that face most of the competition.

Last year was no flux. This team has earned the benefit of doubt. These are the good times, enjoy!

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:18 pm

We will know a lot more in 3 weeks. This is a dangerous stretch with a divisional opponent and a playoff contender back to back on the road followed by a home trap game against a hot rookie QB who torched our team in the final preseason game. I think 6-2 at the halfway point is a must if the Hawks want to be in the HFA race.

by **Futureite** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:57 pm

Mykc;

You more or less illustrated my point. Actually, we went "pass first" V Dallas and jumped all over them, won the game. We went pass first V Cards and it put us up 14-3. Cards got back into the game after we backed off 5 wides. We went pass first V the Rams moreso than we had all yr and won (majority of Gore's 16 carries came late in the 4th). The moral is, 95% of all teams in this league need to prove that they can do this to beat playoff contenders. The Hawks of 2013 were an outlier. They had a historically dominant D which allowed them to rank something like 26th in passing. That will not work this yr or almost any other, regardless of how many times people cry "just hand the ball off X many times to (insert name)!"

I am not painting this as another QB debate. We have had mixed results by letting Kaep throw all day (for example, he singlehandedly lost us the Chi game). But the truth is, our D is not dominant this yr and Kaep will have to carry us at times. I'd rather have hm continue to learn and grow in hopes he can replicate the Rams type performances more often than to hide him behind Gore. I think the exact same thing is true for Seattle and RW's growth, and I've said it for a LONG time here.

This is the yr when both QBs need to step up. I am still waiting for that to happen to the degeee I expected. Sorry but handing it to Frank or Marshawn a gazilliion times ain't gonna cut it this yr.

by **mykc14** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:14 pm

Futureite wrote:Mykc;

You more or less illustrated my point. Actually, we went "pass first" V Dallas and jumped all over them, won the game. We went pass first V Cards and it put us up 14-3. We went pass first V the Rams moreso than we had all yr and won. The moral is, 95% of all teams in this league need to prove that they can do this to beat playoff contenders. The Hawks of 2013 were an outlier. They had a historically dominant D which allowed them to rank something like 26th in passing. That will not work this yr or almost any other, regardless of how many times people cry "just hand the ball off X many times to (insert name)!"

I am not painting this as anothet QB debate. We have had mixed results by letting Kaep throw all day (for exple, he lost us the Chi game). But the truth is, our D is not dominant this yr and Kaep will have to carry us at times. I'd rather have hm continue to learn and grow in hopes he can replicate the Rams type performances more often than to hide him behind Gore. I think the exact same thing is true for Seattle and RW's growth, and I've said it for a LONG time here.

This is the yr when both QBs need to step up. I am still waiting for that to happen to the degeee I expected. Sorry but handing it to Frank or Marshawn a gazilliion times ain't gonna cut it this yr.

I am not talking about being 'pass first' I am talking about being more pass oriented, meaning the focus is moving away from a heavy run oriented offense. Your examples are not good, but really I don't feel like getting in an argument about it so I will just mention why your examples aren't that good and then let you reply and be done with it. Three of the first 4 games of the year the Kaep threw at least 30 times, losing 2. In both of those losses the niners were up big early, a perfect scenario to run the ball more, but the niners continued to throw stopping the clock and in some cases leading to INT's/Turn Overs, allowing the other team to get back into the game. You use the Cardinal game as an example. Yeah, passing may have allowed them to get an early lead but it also led to them allowing the Tards to get back into the game, same with the Bears. In their most recent games they ran, and ran often. Kaep had a great game against the Rams but the niners continued to run even though it wasn't extremely effective, which actually helps to prove my point. I think the niners want Kaep to be able to run a pass oriented offense but realized he isn't there yet. He may get there eventually, maybe even this year but he's not there yet.

by **Futureite** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:54 pm

Mykc;

No, we got up 11 V Cards throwing and then inexplicably abandoned the 5 wides and tried to pound. Your perfect scenerio led to a L. I guess it was "perfect" for a Hawk fan lol. As soon as we finally went back to 5 wides late in the 4th, we drove 75 yds to the 5 where Boldin got the personal foul penalty. Going away from what
as working is what cost us that game.

I don't know what you watched Monday night, but if we had continued to try to pound through a brick wall we'd have gone down at half 14-3 minimum. Hell, we couldn't even convert TWO 4th and 1's! For all that "pounding" we supposedly did, didn't seem to soften up the Rams front late in that game, did it. If we had taken this approach all game, we have at best a nail biter in the road. At worst, a sure L.

I am not advocating for all run and shoot. But I AM saying that 2013's formula ain't gonna work in 2014. Neither team has a short field creating, turnover machine dominant D that creates so many opportunities for the O and allows it to plod and "pound" fruitlessly for at times an entire QTR while it wears down the opposing D. Sorry, it is not going to work. It is not like Dallas has some dominant D. If they are loading to stop the run (and they were) then there is no reason you should not be able to spread them out pick them apart in the pass gane until they back off. Don't give me that crap because I watched my team do it to them on the very first drive of the yr. We had guys running wide open the entire game.

But as a Niner fan, I hope that Bevel gives you exactly what you want; 30+ carries for Lynch each game. It will not work this yr.

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