Pete: "We're randomly going about our substitutions"

[RiverDog]

There's a pretty good topic running over at one of the other forums that I thought would be worthy of a discussion here concerning the non use of Percy Harvin on critical 3rd down situations and why we seem to have a limited number of plays involving him, ie bubble screens and fly sweeps and no crossing routes or other patterns more than a few yards downfield. It all started when someone observed a quote of Pete's towards the end of his post game presser. Forward through to about 15:50 if you want to get the question posed to him and his exact quote in his response and the context in which he made it so I'm not accused of cherry picking.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... 31fca480a4

"...that's just the rhythm of the game you know coming at us and who's ready, who isn't... to go for the sequences. If you notice, we're... we're randomly kind of going about our substitutions sometimes we get the guys that are exactly the right guys and sometimes we don't."

What do you make of that? Is Pete saying that there are some players, ie Percy, that aren't ready for the types of play calls that's on the 3rd and 8 menu? In stuffing the bubble screens and fly sweeps, did Dallas exhaust all the plays we had confidence in that involved Percy? Why do we not have him on the field to at least act as a decoy? Harvin appears to be in perfect health, and there's no trainers tending to an injury and no assistant coach going over a play with him. He just stands there as a spectator.

Someone pointed out that there were several situations last Sunday where Harvin was lined up in the wrong place and Russell had to yell at him to get into the right spot, and that Percy looked confused. Did anyone else notice that? Could it be that Percy is having difficulty mastering the playbook? There are rumors circulating that Christine Michael hasn't learned the playbook, could the same problem be causing us to hold back on Harvin? Is that why we see such a limited use of him, why we're not seeing very many downfield plays involving him? Is that why we're seeing as much of Walters on big 3rd downs as we are Percy? Are we not comfortable with him being able to cope with a hurry up offense? Or is there some other reason that Harvin spends critical 3rd downs on the sidelines with his hands on his hips? Is there an attitude problem at work here or am I just imagining things?

And what about this "we're randomly going about our substitutions" comment? What the heck is Pete saying? Do we have a plan of attack or are we just winging it?

There are times that Pete just plain talks too much and ends up sticking his foot in his mouth. This would appear to be one of those times.

[c_hawkbob]

It appears to me the basic premise here would be that it's better for the opposition not to know what play you're going to run based on you personnel groupings than it is to have every player in the optimum spot for every formation and play that we want to run.

Hell, it makes sense to me; They are all professionals paid and coached to know their assignments on any play, as long as you have them lined up the way they were coached you don't want to run only certain plays for certain players or player groupings. The worst thing that can happen to a play (unless it's something totally basic like a Power) is to have the defense know what's coming!

Pete hasn't suddenly changed his coaching style this season, this is his process. It won us the Super Bowl last year, why change now? Better to hold the players to a higher standard if you ask me.

So what the headline looks salacious, the method is not all that unusual or unsuccessful. You just didn't like (or fully comprehend) the way Pete phrased it.

[RiverDog]

I can accept that we don't want to show our hand and change up our personnel groupings to keep the defense guessing. My biggest question involves his comment about certain players being ready and others not being ready. Who's not ready? Why aren't they ready? Why don't we always get the right players on the field? Is it because some of them are not ready?

I

[c_hawkbob]

I'm not speaking so much to the ad lib nature of our offensive game plan so much as I am talking about his comment about certain players being ready and others not being ready. Who's not ready? Why aren't they ready? Why don't we always get the right players on the field? Is it because some of them are not ready?

I don't see what you're not comprehending. Some players are more ready than others ... nothing new there.

As far as getting the right players on the field, who ever said we're not? You're digging for things that ain't there. Unless you're expecting him to name names just so us fans know who to be mad at ...

[RiverDog]

I don't see what you're not comprehending. Some players are more ready than others ... nothing new there.

As far as getting the right players on the field, who ever said we're not? You're digging for things that ain't there. Unless you're expecting him to name names just so us fans know who to be mad at ...

What I don't comprehend is why the most explosive and feared player in the league is standing on the sidelines on multiple 3rd down plays in the 4th quarter in a tight ball game.

[c_hawkbob]

OK, so now we're back to it being better for the opposition not to know what play you're going to run based on you personnel groupings than it is to have every player in the optimum spot for every formation and play that we want to run.

We could run in this circle all day ...

[HumanCockroach]

I don't know about this, seems to me, that it runs counter to the entire "this is what we do, adjust to it" kind of philosophy they hafe employed for about two years. I can understand and appreciate different grouping to keep the opponent guessing, but personally, it makes a lot more sense to be doing it in the second and third quarter, not in the final two drives when you are down.

As for Harvin not knowing the playbook, that would surprise me quite a bit, as it is basically the same playbook Bevel ran in Minnesota, and Harvin has been with the team all off season, and has had tons of time to learn any tweaks or adjustments Bevel likes to run in Seattle. Seems odd that he wouldn't know what is expected of him at this point.

[Long Time Fan]

Against Dallas, I kept thinking that somehow the Cowboys defense seemed to know what play was coming, as if the Seahawks were tipping their hand in formation or personnel package. I, too, was frustrated to see Harvin exit the field when he has clear value as a decoy. In re-watching the game, it appeared to me that RW had trouble identifying open receivers. There were instances when all but one receiver got no separation, but the open receiver was wide open.

Say what you want about PC, but the one thing I am certain of is that he is NOT thinking, I have to be careful of what I say for fear that knowledgeable football fans will figure out that I don't know what I am doing.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't know about this, seems to me, that it runs counter to the entire "this is what we do, adjust to it" kind of philosophy they hafe employed for about two years.

Seems to me this is exactly the "this is what we do, adjust to it" philosophy ...

[mykc14]

It does seem odd that he wouldn't be on the field in critical 3rd down situations. I also read that he (Percy) only is in on 60% of the offensive snaps, which also see odd to me because we have been using him in a limited number of play types (jet sweep, bubble screens, read options) that we just might be showing a tendency that the D can key on. It would be very interesting to me to see what percentage of plays Percy touches the ball when he is in and what percentage are on those types of plays, I wold imagine it was a decently hight parentage. Combine that with the fact that when he is in we almost never have a fullback and RW is in shotgun most of those as well so it limits the type of carries Lynch can get, basically to the read option. I know the coaches are way smarter than me and understand the game way better than me but the way the Cowboys D played our O last week it almost looked like they knew what was coming.

[mykc14]

Against Dallas, I kept thinking that somehow the Cowboys defense seemed to know what play was coming, as if the Seahawks were tipping their hand in formation or personnel package. I, too, was frustrated to see Harvin exit the field when he has clear value as a decoy. In re-watching the game, it appeared to me that RW had trouble identifying open receivers. There were instances when all but one receiver got no separation, but the open receiver was wide open.

Say what you want about PC, but the one thing I am certain of is that he is NOT thinking, I have to be careful of what I say for fear that knowledgeable football fans will figure out that I don't know what I am doing.

I agree with this, especially the last sentence. PC is obviously a very smart football coach who knows exactly what he is doing. Furthermore he is a defensive coach who knows how hard it should be to coach against the offensive weapons our Hawks team has. At the same time they are in the beginning stages of having Percy in this offense, only 5 games really, and there is going to be some adjustments that have to be made along the way, IMO.

[Long Time Fan]

.. we're randomly kind of going about our substitutions sometimes we get the guys that are exactly the right guys and sometimes we don't."

How is this any different than; sometimes a play works, sometimes it doesn't.

Pete is not using his pressers to call out his players in this manner. If Pete has an issue with a player, that player plays less. period. One of PC's strengths as a coach is his handling of players.

I question the play calling at times (The pitch to Walters was a travesty), I question the defensive schemes (Base coverage, 4 man rush), I question kick return choices ( I expect more from our punt returns than a tantamount fair catch without fumble; I happen to think that this area too should be a focus of winning), but I have full faith in the personnel decisions including who plays and who doesn't. Without PC at the helm, we might still be hoping that maybe its this season that Matt Flynn blossoms.

[Long Time Fan]

Two games ago, Superbowl MVP Malcome Smith doesn't get a sniff of the field. The company line was that Bruce Irvin had it completely handled. Do you really believe that was the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you Pete?

If Pete has an issue with the player, the player knows it, the public, not so much; unless you look to see who is playing and who is not.

For those wondering about Michaels, there is certainly some reason that Pete is keeping him off the field, whatever the reason it is good enough for me.

[HumanCockroach]

Two games ago, Superbowl MVP Malcome Smith doesn't get a sniff of the field. The company line was that Bruce Irvin had it completely handled. Do you really believe that was the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you Pete?

If Pete has an issue with the player, the player knows it, the public, not so much; unless you look to see who is playing and who is not.

For those wondering about Michaels, there is certainly some reason that Pete is keeping him off the field, whatever the reason it is good enough for me.

Malcolm Smith isn't ( and hasn't been) a starting LB. Baring injury ( for example this week he will be) he is a situational, swiss army knife LB, and has been when Irvin is healthy and available. People tend to claim otherwise, but being the SB MVP doesn't make a player a complete every down player, just doesn't.

As for Micheal or Harvin, who knows? Strange way to rotate IMHO, but I'm not a coach or a player. I don't see it the same way as Bob, but it doesn't invalidate how they do it, just means I have a different opinion, and theirs does not coincide with mine.

[c_hawkbob]

With Pete, whether it be here or USC or the Jets or the Pats or wherever, you earn your way on the field. And once there, you play what's called. if you're not getting on the field, and you're healthy, chances are you ain't doin something right during the week. It's not that hard to understand.

[Long Time Fan]

but being the SB MVP doesn't make a player a complete every down player, just doesn't.

No one suggested that he moved from every down player to "not a sniff"; I only commented that two games ago, Smith played nary a down. This decline in on field opportunities was and is noteworthy.

With Pete, if you're not getting on the field, and you're healthy, chances are you ain't doin something right during the week. It's not that hard to understand.

Yup.

[HumanCockroach]

Posters have indeed done so, not in this thread but others. Smith is a backup, I see no significance in a drop in playing time in a single game, than I would in Schofield garnering less snaps. Situational players play "as needed" and Smith is, and has been his entire career in Seattle. Pass happy teams last season got a heavy dose of Smith, this year, not as much. I'm fairly confident that some of that may have to do with his problems this season in pass coverage, and some may have to do with differing moving pieces amongst the LB core, improved play in that area by Irvin, the type of offensive sets Washington was running, etc. There are far greater reasons for a lack of reps, beside getting in "trouble" with coaches, this isn't HS, the best player based on all of those factors listed (as well as many others) dictates when, and how often a specialist plays.

[Long Time Fan]

Posters have indeed done so, not in this thread but others.

Take it up with them, whoever they are, in whatever thread you reference.

Btw, I'm really looking forward to Schofield getting more playing time. Let's all enjoy what I hope is a huge win this weekend!

[RiverDog]

I don't see what you're not comprehending. Some players are more ready than others ... nothing new there.

As far as getting the right players on the field, who ever said we're not? You're digging for things that ain't there. Unless you're expecting him to name names just so us fans know who to be mad at ...

Don't see what I'm not comprehending? Digging for something that ain't there? Well, he just named names and answered all my questions, including that mystery from last November thru January.

[mykc14]

It looks like 'We're randomly going about or substitutions" means we're really trying to trade Harvin and can't trust him to be out there on 3rd down because nobody knows what the hell he is going to do.

[Seahawks4Ever]

At least I won't have to curse at Harvin for running a kick off from 9 yards out of the end zone and not at least making it to the 20 yard line. It was really important against the Cowboys when we received that last K/O that Wilson at least get to start the drive at the 20. But, NOOO, Harving hesitated then ran the ball out of the end zone anyway and got stuffed of course.

In fact, I could almost predict what play the Hawks were going to run if P.H. was in the line up. If I could figure it out then the Cowboys were able to figure it out.

So, here is to Percy Harvin who got paid more for less that any Seahawk in memory, even Cindy Rice, and that's saying something.

Oh, and I hear that the door actually did hit Percy in the fanny on the way out the door!

[RiverDog]

It looks like 'We're randomly going about or substitutions" means we're really trying to trade Harvin and can't trust him to be out there on 3rd down because nobody knows what the hell he is going to do.

Bingo.

[Long Time Fan]

RiverDog,

You are to be commended for seeing that there was more than met the eye/ear with PC's comments last week. You read the tea leaves well. I don't always understand your guarded view of the team's prospects, but I certainly respect your opinion and insights.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Hats off to River Dog! Pete and his double talk is starting to get under my skin too!

Pete and John built a championship team then started to dismantle it before they even won a championship. Sounds to me like we were LUCKY to win the Lombardi last season.

[mykc14]

Hats off to River Dog! Pete and his double talk is starting to get under my skin too!

Pete and John built a championship team then started to dismantle it before they even won a championship. Sounds to me like we were LUCKY to win the Lombardi last season.

Nice work Riv. Now hawks4ever, what was he supposed to say? Percy refused to go in? PC clearly showed from the beginning that you can't trust anything that he says. He keeps EVERYTHING close to the vest. I can remember when he first got here there was a joke that if he was saying something positive about a player to the media it meant that player was going to be traded or released in the next few days. Personally, I take everything that he says with a grain of salt. He says things to the media to protect players at times. Other times he says things to call out a player, a little bit, but never usually by name. Most of the time he's trying to protect the 'Seahawk way' by saying a lot without really saying anything and I would rather have that then a coach air the teams dirty laundry all over the place every press conference.