The Seahawks... ARE TRADING PERCY TO THE JETS?!?

[briwas101]

Damn, im just so giddy right now.

I thought FOR SURE we would have to watch Harvin sucks for another year or two before we got rid of him.

Pete and John deserve a lot of flak for making the worst move in Seahawks history but they deserve credit for realizing how stupid they were and getting him off the team.

This is the happiest thing seahawks-related since the Super Bowl. Im ready to celebrate Harvin being gone.

Yesssssssssssssssssssssss!

[briwas101]

WTF?? Not understanding this move in the least. IF they were going to cut bait so quickly, you would think that Tate would have been a MUCH bigger priority. Simply makes little sense, from both a logistical standpoint, financial stand point, AND a pick compensation stand point..... They better be pretty damn sound on offense these next few weeks, or there is going to be a LOT of moaning and complaining...

They were in denial.

They underappreciated Tate and they over-hyped Harvin.

[mykc14]

According to my messed up math It looks like the Hawks will actually be saving almost 11 mil on the cap for next year. They save 6.5 this year that can be rolled over. Percy counts 7.2 against the cap next year, so the net difference is 700,000. His cap hit next year would have been around 11.5 mil so they actually free up almost 11 mil. Obviously that will help to resign RW, Wags, KJ, and maybe Avril, Maxwell, or possibly re-doing Lynch or even signing a free-agent. I loved the idea of Percy but obviously he didn't become who we hoped he would be on or off the field.

[briwas101]

I disagree 100%.
Reports are coming out from everywhere that the reason for this trade is that the same problems (HUGE anger issues), that got him moved from the Vikings, followed him here. A report came out that last year, he punched Golden Tate in the face, and that this year, his anger towards Russell Wilson, both on the field and off, (apparently he had a HUGE blow up aimed at Wilson) made the whole thing completely unworkable.

What coach/GM would trade their biggest offensive weapon, mid season, a year after winning the Super Bowl, for LESS than what they originally traded for him?
Answer: ONLY a coach/GM who are willing to swallow their pride for the GOOD OF THE TEAM, admit their mistakes and move on from them. ONLY Pete Carroll and John Schnieder have the cajones to do something like this![/quote]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hawks DID NOT trade their biggest weapon.

Lynch is our biggest weapon.

Harvin is an overrated BUST who played like garbage for the Hawks.

If Harvin was ACTUALLY PRODUCING there is no way we'd see so much of Walters.

It's easy to put Walters in the game when he can't do any worse than Harvin.

[monkey]

They underappreciated Tate and they over-hyped Harvin.

Some of you guys developed a man crush on Tate, but that's one crush I just never understood.
I would MUCH rather see what Richardson and Norwood can do, and now at least one if not both of them will have a better opportunity to show just that.

[c_hawkbob]

It was a bad trade, but it was no where near the worst in team history. It did after all help get us that ring we're all so fond of.

[monkey]

Just throwing out this stat.
Russell Wilson had a total QBR of 45.3 with Percy Harvin on the field, and a QBR of 71.0 with him off the field.

He was better without Harvin. So to will the Seahawks offense be I believe.

Also, the Jets will pay Harvin's $7.1 million salary for the rest of the 2014 season, the last of the guaranteed money in a deal which runs through 2018. Harvin's salary for 2015 is $10.5 million.

Was the trade bad?
Yup!
Know what would have been MUCH worse?
If Pete and John had insisted that nothing was wrong, when something clearly was, and just kept the cancer in the locker room.
Instead, they had the fortitude to admit they made a mistake, and did something about it!
I'm blown away to be honest.

[Hawk Sista]

Time with tell. But if emm effer was punching team mates in the face and was a locker room Cancer- good riddance.

I can see GT getting some satisfaction over this public scab pealing....And if it really went down like people say, why didn't "they" try to move him in the off season and keep GT?? No matter now, just saying.

[briwas101]

It was a bad trade, but it was no where near the worst in team history. It did after all help get us that ring we're all so fond of.

Name ONE move that is worse, and actually use things like DRAFT PICKS, CONTRACT, and PRODUCTION to justify it being worse.

Have the Hawks traded a 6th rounder for a cheap guy who did even less than Harvin, sure, but thats a 6th for a cheap guy.

The draft picks we gave up, the contract we gave him, and his lack of production makes it clear-cut.

THE PERCY HARVIN TRADE IS THE WORST MOVE IN SEAHAWKS HISTORY.


As for his help getting us a ring, we made it to the super bowl with no help from Harvin and we easily win by 25+ points with him sitting on the bench.

The Harvin trade was just beyond stupid from day 1. The hawks were never a percy harvin away from going to the Super Bowl, but they decided to make a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE commitment to a player who had never played on our team (to show he actually fits in and produces) and was being run (or actually running himself) out of town in Minny.

Harvin still had 1 year left on his old contract but they gave in to Harvin's demands and gave him a humongous contract without him having to prove himself.

Good luck finding a seahawks move that is worse because you won't. The harvin trade was all kinds of F'ed up from the beginning.

[briwas101]

Just throwing out this stat.
Russell Wilson had a total QBR of 45.3 with Percy Harvin on the field, and a QBR of 71.0 with him off the field.

He was better without Harvin. So to will the Seahawks offense be I believe.

Also, the Jets will pay Harvin's $7.1 million salary for the rest of the 2014 season, the last of the guaranteed money in a deal which runs through 2018. Harvin's salary for 2015 is $10.5 million.

Was the trade bad?
Yup!
Know what would have been MUCH worse?
If Pete and John had insisted that nothing was wrong, when something clearly was, and just kept the cancer in the locker room.
Instead, they had the fortitude to admit they made a mistake, and did something about it!
I'm blown away to be honest.

You are right that it would have been worse to keep him. Cutting their losses now is a smart move.

The hawks are BETTER without Harvin because we can go back to OUR offense.

All the people clamoring for the Hawks to use Harvin deep simply didn't understand that Harvin has always been a LOS gimmick player. In order to keep Harvin involved in the offense we had to run a gimmick offense. Thats Harvin's game.

The Hawks had a choice to make: stick with a gimmick offense so harvin can be used, or go back to our normal offense where Harvin doesn't fit in.

Thank God they made the right choice, although now we dont have Tate.....

[Zorn76]

Correct me if I am wrong Zorn, but I thought Harvin missed the NFCCG last year? I think he got ruled after the concush against the Saints?

I stand corrected.

And it's nice to know somebody reads my posts from time to time, lol.

[RiverDog]

It was a bad trade, but it was no where near the worst in team history. It did after all help get us that ring we're all so fond of.

I disagree on both counts. It is undeniable that this was the most expensive trade in Seahawk history...a first, a third, and a seventh. Nothing else comes close.

Won a SB? Harvin contributed zilch to us getting there, save a kickoff return against an opponent we steam rollered anyway. And please, don't tell me that his performance in the SB was a deciding factor. No one player on either side of the ball or on either sideline was going to make a decisive difference in that game. You said yourself that we would have won the game even if TJack was a starter.

This WAS the worst trade in Seahawk history. Fortunately, we're good enough that we can probably absorb it without too much pain. These are the types of decisions other less accomplished coaches get fired for.

[Hawk Sista]

What makes it different to me is that in this deal - Pete & John were swinging for the fences and knew it was risky. They swung though. We didn't get caught watching ourselves gettin struck out while losing our franchise left guard. We had a solid team & they saw percy as the cherry on top. In the end, we didn't start sucking after this move....WE WON THE SUPER BOWL! We won. Not because of this move in particular, but we WON LOTS OF GAMES - including the big one in February. The Hutch deal, by comparison (or lack thereof) made us instantly weaker and it was THE turning point of our demise.

Now... I have always been honest. A trade for a Joe Thomas kind of dude, for example, is far sexier than a deal for a dude like Harvin. But nobody would ever stupid away a franchise o-line guy...right?

In hindsight-yes. The trade wasn't great. P/J made a move that coulda made us unstoppable and missed. Ima sit w/ this to see if I'm foolin myself and giving a pass to dudes that brought us our first Lombardi.

[RiverDog]

What makes it different to me is that in this deal - Pete & John were swinging for the fences and knew it was risky. They swung though. We didn't get caught watching ourselves gettin stuck out on our franchise left guard. We had a solid team & they saw percy as the cherry on top. In the end, we didn't start sucking after this move....WE WON THE SUPER BOWL! We won. Not because of this move in particular, but we WON LOTS OF GAMES - including the big one in February. The Hutch deal, by comparison (or lack thereof) made us instantly weaker and it was THE turning point of our demise.

Now... I have always been honest. A trade for a Joe Thomas kind of dude, for example, is far sexier than a deal for a dude like Harvin. But nobody would ever stupid away a franchise o-line guy...right?

In hindsight-yes. The trade wasn't great. P/J made a move that coulda made us unstoppable and missed. Ima sit w/ this to see if I'm foolin myself and giving a pass to dudes that brought us our first Lombardi.

When we made this trade, I said that I applauded the fact that they had the balls to make such a deal, just that I wish it wasn't with this guy. Harvin was a problem in every locker room he's ever been in.

And most definitely I can give a pass to Pete and John. Pete can coach my team for as long as he likes. Even with this lemon of a trade, he's still way above par.

[Hawk Sista]

Guys w/ Harvin like talent & Largent like character are not on the trading block.

[RiverDog]

Guys w/ Harvin lik talent & largent like character are not on the trading block.

Guys with Largent like talent and Largent like character aren't on the trading block, either.

[Hawk Sista]

Indeed!!! That's my point.

PS - I finished radiation.

[obiken]

Cool HS, that's great!!

I don't see how some of you think we are better off, maybe some will step up and cover the loss but this a loss, period. Next year, it might become a positive.

[HumanCockroach]

It was a bad trade, but it was no where near the worst in team history. It did after all help get us that ring we're all so fond of.

I love it when I see sane posts.

Biggest bust? Seriously, looks like someone is new to the party.

[HumanCockroach]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahman_Green

Here's one RD. Perennial pro bowler, all pro and a 5th for a 6th and a player that never played a down for Seattle.

There are more, how about a first for Branch? Franco Harris rigamarole, Jerry Rice? Plenty of "bad trades" and decisions to go around, why stop there, how about making Burleson a top paid receiver because they were salty about Hutch. Wistrom signing( biggest contract bonus in HISTORY to that point, by competing with THEMSELVES for the privilege to do so) . Drafting a long snapper, who couldn't play football? How about carrying two kickers for an entire season, and ending up keeping neither the next year? They are all over the place, and they aren't hard to find. Easley trade for Kelly F-ing Stouffer ( that was turned into a trade for another 1st, that really panned out well right?) Fredd Young to Indy? They are all over the place, Bosworth? Pick something, but Harvin? Might make the list when all is said and done, but who knows? If he goes on to be what he can be, trading him will be the worst move, not trading FOR him. Lynch's shelf life IS limited, and whether we like that or not, doesn't CHANGE it. In a year or two,we will see.

[depaashaas]

PS - I finished radiation.

Congrats Sista, happy to hear you are doing good

[briwas101]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahman_Green

Here's one RD. Perennial pro bowler, all pro and a 5th for a 6th and a player that never played a down for Seattle.

There are more, how about a first for Branch? Franco Harris rigamarole, Jerry Rice? Plenty of "bad trades" and decisions to go around, why stop there, how about making Burleson a top paid receiver because they were salty about Hutch. Wistrom signing( biggest contract bonus in HISTORY to that point, by competing with THEMSELVES for the privilege to do so) . Drafting a long snapper, who couldn't play football? How about carrying two kickers for an entire season, and ending up keeping neither the next year? They are all over the place, and they aren't hard to find. Easley trade for Kelly F-ing Stouffer ( that was turned into a trade for another 1st, that really panned out well right?) Fredd Young to Indy? They are all over the place, Bosworth? Pick something, but Harvin? Might make the list when all is said and done, but who knows? If he goes on to be what he can be, trading him will be the worst move, not trading FOR him. Lynch's shelf life IS limited, and whether we like that or not, doesn't CHANGE it. In a year or two,we will see.

Congrats on listing a bunch of moves that are not as bad as the harvin trade.

No one ever said the harvin move was the only bad move in team history.

We have made many bad moves- and Harvin is the worst.

Draft picks + contract + no production = worst move in Hawks history.

The only move that comes close is drafting Aaron curry, and even that only comes close because of the insane rookie contracts back then.

[mykc14]

Cool HS, that's great!!

I don't see how some of you think we are better off, maybe some will step up and cover the loss but this a loss, period. Next year, it might become a positive.

I think it was a loss, in the fact that we are losing a playmaker, but its not like our O was lighting it up anyway. We were running the ball well, but we weren't getting it done in the passing game for whatever reason. Was RW trying to force it to him? Was Percy freelancing a little? Is ADB's production down because he has moved to the outside? The only thing we know is the passing offense was struggling with Percy on the field. Personally I am excited to see Norwood. I know it is rare for a rookie receiver to make an impact, especially a 4th rounder who has been hurt but by all accounts he runs crisp routes, shields the defender well with his body, and has great hands. That is a perfect combination for RW. It also, hopefully will get ADB back into the slot from time to time, especially on 3rd downs. I could easily see a scenario where ADB plays outside but moves inside with Norwood or Richardson coming onto the field. Is it a loss, of course, but that doesn't mean that our O won't be better off without him.

[obiken]

We gave up a number 1 for Deon Branch, wasn't that worse?? Just asking. Now one thought that Percy was a locker room cancer. We will find out now how good Him and Golden really are.

[mykc14]

Way to go Sis! Congrats!

I know I keep discussing this but I would love for some of the cap that we saved be used in a trade for a pass rusher. Specifically getting Clem back. It would make sense for both teams. We need pass rush help, especially with Marsh out, and they aren't going anywhere this season so they can use an extra pick. It seems like a mid-round selection could do it. I wonder if Clem would be willing to come back? I know this is probably just a pipe dream, but a guy can dream can't he.

[mykc14]

We gave up a number 1 for Deon Branch, wasn't that worse?? Just asking. Now one thought that Percy was a locker room cancer. We will find out now how good Him and Golden really are.

Well, I would say a 1,3, and 7 is worse than just a 1. We gave Branch a ton of money back but at least he played a few seasons and was decently productive. The difference was that nobody really saw Branch as a #1 receiver when we traded for him and Percy was really in a class by himself when it comes to playmaking ability. There were many reports that he had locker room issues. With that being said there was no question about his on field productivity.

[HumanCockroach]

LOL. sure, none of those moves cost picks + money - production.... I think Stouffer was in there, wasn't it? If you don't think that move was worse, ask around. You obviously weren't a fan at that time

[HumanCockroach]

Way to go Sis! Congrats!

I know I keep discussing this but I would love for some of the cap that we saved be used in a trade for a pass rusher. Specifically getting Clem back. It would make sense for both teams. We need pass rush help, especially with Marsh out, and they aren't going anywhere this season so they can use an extra pick. It seems like a mid-round selection could do it. I wonder if Clem would be willing to come back? I know this is probably just a pipe dream, but a guy can dream can't he.

Rather have McDonald back.

[mykc14]

Rather have McDonald back.

I liked McDonald as well but IMO his salary would be too high for a situational pass rusher. He's getting like 3.5 mil/yr. Clem's getting 4.5, but he would play a lot more. Let's just get em' both, combined they would only cost a little more than what we save with percy this year.

[HumanCockroach]

Just see a much higher need for interior pressure, if I had to choose one, for my money it's McDonald, the Hawks have gotten outside pressure from Irvin, Schofield, Avril and Bennett, there is always a spot to sstep up for the QB's. A push, turns 'PRESSURES' into sacks, and turnovers .

[obiken]

LOL. sure, none of those moves cost picks + money - production.... I think Stouffer was in there, wasn't it? If you don't think that move was worse, ask around. You obviously weren't a fan at that time

Ok. We were not a winner when we had Stouffer, he was the worst QB we ever had. Worse than Kemp, way worse that Clippy!!

[HumanCockroach]

Actually, we were indeed a "winner" when we traded for Stouffer, that was the beginning of the end ( hence we originally traded a perennial all pro/ pro bowl player originally, until he failed his physical, then switched to a 1st round pick instead). Stouffer was so incredibly good, he couldn't pass Kreig, and even after Kreig was gone, the Hawks wasted multiple picks ( 1st rounders) on McGwire and Mirer to attempt to make up for the original trade for Stouffer, hell, Stan the man Gelbaugh was being chanted for over both number one selections ( McGwire and Stouffer) they were so incredibly bad.

Even with ALL of that, I still think the Green trade was worse Seattle traded him ultimately for a WORSE draft pick and not one damn thing else ( as the player included, was already injured, re injured himself and never played a single down for Seattle). We aren't talking about a 2 year player, but the running back who holds the Packers record for most rushing yards in his career, and was a four time pro bowler, and two time all pro, lead the NFL twice in rushing, and was a HUGE part of their success for the better part of a decade......

While we are at it, how about trading the rights to Tony Dorset, for a plethora of rubbish picks that never panned out? Or passing on Joe Montana because a girl answered his phone, selecting Dan McGwire instead of who Knox wanted ( Favre) there is a SLEW of bad trades, selections etc to filter through, and Harvin, no matter how badly some want it to be so, isn't sitting at the top. Maybe top five, maybe, but I suppose that remains to be seen, if he excells it simply shows what the Hawks saw in him, if he flames out, at least Seattle got out of it....

Seattle isn't the only team with these kinds of instances, every team has them, at least they built in some"insurance" to protect themselves a little bit. Anyone ecpecting to "hit" 100% are kidding themselves, no one does that, no one.

[obiken]

HC, trades rarely work out, for either team. The Dorsett trade was a little more complex. We needed bodies and he made to clear to Seattle that he did not want to play here. That was a Flores move on Stouffer. Harvin got in fights according to several sources the truth is starting to come out.

[RiverDog]

Indeed!!! That's my point.

PS - I finished radiation.

Great! That news made me smile. May you never have to go through that ordeal again.

There have been plenty of bad moves over the course of our franchise, bad draft picks, bad FA acquisitions and other personnel moves. But the only trade I can think of that was even close to being as bad as this one was the Branch trade, and he didn't cost as much (a low first rounder vs. a 1st, 3rd, and 7th), played in more games and produced more than Percy did. The only thing that could possibly change it is that at least we garnered a mid round draft pick for him. But as it stands now, and unless the guy we get with the Jets pick turns out to be a Pro Bowler, it is without a doubt our worst trade in franchise history.

If someone else has a worse trade than this one, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, the statement stands.

[c_hawkbob]

Name ONE move that is worse, and actually use things like DRAFT PICKS, CONTRACT, and PRODUCTION to justify it being worse.

Deion Branch. He cost us a first also and we only got worse as a team.

I'm not going to bother with your instructions about how I should justify my opinion, I readily cede draft capital, dollars, regular season production and even how good a teammate and quality of human being they were. But the fact remains that Percy impacted, in a very real and tangible way, the most important game in the history of this franchise.

Percy put the Denver defense on their heels with that first Jet sweep and cut their hearts out with that second half opening KO return. Those two plays alone justified his cost in my admitedly totally subjective evaluation.

The only thing that could impact my totally subjective evluation in this matter is if it eventually comes out that he has done more harm than I believe possible to the chemistry (onother subjective evaluation) of this team before we got rid of him.

As an almost superfluent additional, non-subjective note, we are also recouping some draft capital for Harvin that we were not able to with Branch.

[savvyman]

I have no issue whatsoever with the trade. Pete & John believed that they could provide an environment where Percy could flourish. They had managed the team so brilliantly that when a player like Percy became available they had the salary cap left to pull off this trade (most teams did not) . In their eyes at that time Percy could have been the player to make the difference in attaining the Superbowl trophy. So Pete & John swung for the fences and pulled the trigger for this potential superbowl championship making player. No one should have any issue with Pete & John for doing this.

And as others have said - Pete & John show how lucky we are to have these guys running the show when they cut their losses (after doing everything possible to provide Harvin with a platform for success) and dumped the locker room cancer.

Here are two links to stories that describe the reasons and event that lead to Harvin's departure:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/10/17/6996499/percy-harvin-trade-seahawks-made-trade-to-conserve-locker-room/in/6760340



http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/10/18/6997821/percy-harvin-trade-seahawks-russell-wilson-nfl/in/6760340


>>>>> "As one source explained it to PFT on Friday evening, the Seahawks possibly feared that Harvin had sufficient influence over enough of the locker room to launch a mutiny against quarterback Russell Wilson, who despite not yet getting a franchise-quarterback contract possibly has become the target of some resentment among players who don't share his complete devotion to the game, and who regard the third-year quarterback as a player-coach."

This fear has roots with Harvin's history, as it was reported the final straw in the Vikings' decision to trade him was that he was badmouthing then-starting quarterback Christian Ponder at the time.

Perhaps the biggest issue, or at least the ultimate final straw, is something that Bob Condotta and John Boyle both reported Friday night: that Percy Harvin refused to go back into the game late against Dallas, when Seattle was trying to drive downfield to re-take the lead. Harvin missed 11 of the Seahawks final 17 snaps and this strange usage had confused pretty much everyone watching; it was something that Pete Carroll tiptoed around with vague comments about game flow and 'readiness'. I would have to think for Pete Carroll, Harvin's refusal to go into the game as a form of protest for touches or usage may have been the most egregious affront to the whole philosophy and culture of the Always Compete program he's created in Seattle.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[RiverDog]

Deion Branch. He cost us a first also and we only got worse as a team.

I'm not going to bother with your instructions about how I should justify my opinion, I readily cede draft capital, dollars, regular season production and even how good a teammate and quality of human being they were. But the fact remains that Percy impacted, in a very real and tangible way, the most important game in the history of this franchise.

Percy put the Denver defense on their heels with that first Jet sweep and cut their hearts out with that second half opening KO return. Those two plays alone justified his cost in my admitedly totally subjective evaluation.

The only thing that could impact my totally subjective evluation in this matter is if it eventually comes out that he has done more harm than I believe possible to the chemistry (onother subjective evaluation) of this team before we got rid of him.

As an almost superfluent additional, non-subjective note, we are also recouping some draft capital for Harvin that we were not able to with Branch.

Branch cost a low #1, #31 overall vs. Harvin's #25 overall, and it did not include a #3 and #7 like Harvin's, so unquestionably Harvin cost way more than did Branch in terms of draft capital.

You can't blame our post XL demise on the failure of the Branch trade, not with the losing of Hutch, the implosion of Shaun Alexander, J. Steven's bust, Tobek's retirement, and so on. Even so, we still made the playoffs those years, even won a game or two, and were legitimate SB contenders during the time Branch was on our team. The Branch trade was basically neutral in its short term effect. Branch didn't produce as anticipated, but he produced a lot more than Harvin did.

The only thing that could possibly change the status of Harvin being the worst trade in Hawks history is the mid round draft choice we got from the Jets. If that eventual pick is parlayed into a solid player, then maybe it changes things. But as it stands now, this is the worst one.

[mykc14]

>>>>> "As one source explained it to PFT on Friday evening, the Seahawks possibly feared that Harvin had sufficient influence over enough of the locker room to launch a mutiny against quarterback Russell Wilson, who despite not yet getting a franchise-quarterback contract possibly has become the target of some resentment among players who don't share his complete devotion to the game, and who regard the third-year quarterback as a player-coach."


Perhaps the biggest issue, or at least the ultimate final straw, is something that Bob Condotta and John Boyle both reported Friday night: that Percy Harvin refused to go back into the game late against Dallas, when Seattle was trying to drive downfield to re-take the lead. Harvin missed 11 of the Seahawks final 17 snaps and this strange usage had confused pretty much everyone watching; it was something that Pete Carroll tiptoed around with vague comments about game flow and 'readiness'. I would have to think for Pete Carroll, Harvin's refusal to go into the game as a form of protest for touches or usage may have been the most egregious affront to the whole philosophy and culture of the Always Compete program he's created in Seattle.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Wow that is some interesting information. It does seem crazy to me that there was the possibility that Harvin could have had more influence over the team than Harvin. That worries me, along with the idea that there might be some resentment around the teams surrounding RW. Why in the world any player would resent him is beyond me. He works his butt off for the team and is completely dedicated to the team.

The second comment about Harvin's refusal to go back into the game. If that is the case it is just another reason to be extremely happy about the trade. Out the 11 of the final 17 plays in crunch time as some sort of protest. I really liked Percy and, foolishly looking back, was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but this is just insane. The Hawks paid you! Before you even played a down, they gave you 'respect' and this is how you return the favor. Glad to see you go. I wish you well so long as you increase the draft pick we get for you, after that I couldn't care less if you are out of the league. Go get yourself some help before you end up costing yourself more than a ton of money and an opportunity to play on a world championship team.

[RiverDog]

Perhaps the biggest issue, or at least the ultimate final straw, is something that Bob Condotta and John Boyle both reported Friday night: that Percy Harvin refused to go back into the game late against Dallas, when Seattle was trying to drive downfield to re-take the lead. Harvin missed 11 of the Seahawks final 17 snaps and this strange usage had confused pretty much everyone watching; it was something that Pete Carroll tiptoed around with vague comments about game flow and 'readiness'. I would have to think for Pete Carroll, Harvin's refusal to go into the game as a form of protest for touches or usage may have been the most egregious affront to the whole philosophy and culture of the Always Compete program he's created in Seattle.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I was at last week's Cowboy's game, sitting 12 rows up from the field on about the 30 yardline on the Cowboy's side. When my buddy pointed out that Harvin wasn't even in on a number of critical 3rd down plays, I looked straight across the field from where I was sitting/standing and saw Harvin standing alone, hands on hips. There wasn't a trainer attending to an injury or an assistant coach going over plays with him. Nothing. He was very solitary. It seemed very strange that he'd be that isolated and alone when his team was fighting for their lives.

This causes me to believe every word of the above paragraph, and confirms my suspicions of Carroll's strange comments in his presser about some players not being ready. That's what I was trying to get some of you guys to respond to when I started the thread on Pete's press conference remarks.

[HumanCockroach]

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/23/sport ... uffer.html

Nope, that was a McCormick/ Knox move. 3 Picks ( 1st,5th,5th) a ton of cash at the time, and was out of the league in 4-5 years all together, never started a full season in Seattle, and required two additional picks to attempt to correct the mistake.
by far the worst trade in Hawks history, with Green at number two. Number three and four are debateable.


HC, trades rarely work out, for either team. The Dorsett trade was a little more complex. We needed bodies and he made to clear to Seattle that he did not want to play here. That was a Flores move on Stouffer. Harvin got in fights according to several sources the truth is starting to come out.