Offensive Line

[Uppercut]

The O Line seems to be smoke and mirrors and has been in the same state for the past 4 seasons. The backups are about as good as the starters which is good but the whole starting line is average at best. I am not sure what the fix is but it sure leads to just average production from RW. Seems like every snap is a fire drill!!! It would be nice to have the 2005 O Line with the rest of this team or even just something like them.

[c_hawkbob]

It's a hurtin' unit for sure, in more ways than just physically.

We've got talent there, and great offensive lines typically take a couple years to gel even once you have the major pieces in place, but while we have great production from them in the run game, and even occasional glimpses of them playing well together as a unit, there always seem to be injuries and mental lapses that prevent them from becoming the cohesive unit they need to be (and I believe are capable of becoming). It's kinda frustrating actually, it's not like we haven't devoted assets to the problem, we just can't seem to take that final step. Hopefully we can add a solid piece or two in the off season.

In the mean time, as long as we keep winning ...

[Long Time Fan]

I am sick to death of the pre-snap penalties. I'm disappointed in Britt's lack of progress. I want Unger back to anchor this held together by bailing wire bunch. I'd like to see Okung stay healthy, but I do appreciate Bailey. Thank goodness the run blocking is a level better than the pass blocking.

Hard to imagine how good this team could be with moderately improved oline play.

I don't think Cable has the answers.

[Hawkstar]

I am sick to death of the pre-snap penalties. I'm disappointed in Britt's lack of progress. I want Unger back to anchor this held together by bailing wire bunch. I'd like to see Okung stay healthy, but I do appreciate Bailey. Thank goodness the run blocking is a level better than the pass blocking.

Hard to imagine how good this team could be with moderately improved oline play.

I don't think Cable has the answers.

I hear you on the Pre-snap penalties. Nothing is more frustrating!

Hopefully Unger is back and can stay healthy ~ his presence seems to elevate the play around him. I've been okay with Britt, but he had his worst day as a pro against a really good front 7 for the Santa Clara team we eliminated from participating post season play... it's really fun to say that

[NorthHawk]

Okung is close to the end of his contract (2016 FA) and he hasn't gone a full year without missing games so I wonder what type of offer he will receive from our FO?
It seems to me they have to go after a LT in the draft just in case Okung decides to go elsewhere or to have a seamless transition for the games Okung will inevitably miss.
Maybe they foresee Britt moving over to LT at some point, but it would be a step down from a healthy Okung if he does.

In any event the current Matador pass protection has to be improved. Arizona - especially with Campbell might make it a real uncomfortable day for us if they can stop the run.

[Hawktawk]

The line is the line. We won a SB with the same issues on the line.One could only imagine this team with our 2005 line, they might win many SBs.

Arizona always makes it rough on us and Sunday will be no different. Even in the big win at the roaster last year they knocked Wilson around pretty good as I recall. There will be no gimmes. The game plan needs to be the 2nd half 9ers game plan. Lots of beast mode and Turbin, RW being a Houdini artist and a suffocating D. Only two words about this game concern me.
Bruce Arians.................

[NorthHawk]

I hear you.
Arians is a heck of a coach and his Offensive style fits with todays pass interference/illegal contact rules with the deep routes.
It appears we will be facing Lindley and although he hasn't shown much yet in his career, Arians has never changed his aggressive game plan so we can expect our Secondary to be tested if our DL doesn't get pressure.

[Hawktawk]

I dont believe Lindley has thrown a TD in the pros and he has thrown 7 picks. He should have 9 or 10 but Janoris Jenkins clearly was not ready for prime time. If the Rams defenders could catch Seattle would have the division lead right now.

I saw Lindley a little bit during the 2012 blowout in Seattle and he wasn't impressive. AZ's D has always given Seattle problems but our D should give them all kinds of problems. Seattle should win......
Like I say though , Bruce Arians. These guys ought to be in the division cellar and they have the best record in the league.

[Bird Droppings]

The inept, off-injured, ill-brained, and deservedly maligned Seahawks OLine has only one significant starter: Max Unger.

Let me count the ways: Okung, is always getting hurt, every year, is always getting hurt. He will not stop getting hurt;

Carpenter, is always getting hurt, and has never lived up to his first round selection;

Unger is a keeper who they will have to rest or expect lingering lameness into next season

Sweazy, pleazy, the guy Cable touted as the most advanced from last season, but loses more wrecks than most junk yards ...and he gets penalties, the
experiment as a late round selection moved from defense to offense is clearly back-up at best

Britt, I think they were sitting on another name for RT, but that name got pulled from the hat just a couple picks before they selected .... I'll forgive him for rookieness
but he keeps getting beat and has not shown the nastiness The Schneid and PC were bragging up.

There is hope in Bailey, Jean-Pierre has played well for a guy who was on the street a month ago, and Gilliam has been swapped around to get any kind of reading on.

If you want to count Zach Miller as a close-in OLineman, then you gotta look at his health record ... and contract ... as well.

So, my needs at least list is a tackle, two guards, and a plus blocking TE in F/A or in the draft. Even a second tier guard in F/A is better than what the Hawks have now.

Yeah, they keep winning and The Will is still alive ... but not because of the protection he is getting.

The Niner's D, as with other teams, got worn out in the second half because they bested in battles in the first half.

Perhaps that is the Bevell/Cable model.

The defense is carrying the offense, and, I hope they will continue to be able to do so.

But, even if they win out all the way this season, members of the Oline are due for marked improvement or moved on out next year.

zoom

[Hawktawk]

That a very nice breakdown of our O line. Thank goodness we have a running back and a QB who can be effective with poor line play.


Just a thought. I was kind of surprised Arians went around his #2 and started a guy with 7 picks and no TDs in his career.

I wonder if Arians decided to hide the rook from Seattle's film study, give him some practice reps and yank Lindley early if he isn't producing?Either way I have a feeling we will see that big rookie at some point during the game.

[Zorn76]

Our OL is hurting, but there have been instances where RW had plenty of time to see that our WR's were covered, and still held onto the ball too long before taking a sack or, though rare, throwing a bad INT like yesterday.

The quick pass he had to Baldwin to get a 1st down on 3rd and 5 is what I'd like to see more of. We actually had a bubble screen or two work Sunday, but I think there's room for more routes that are closer to 1st down marker in the middle of the field.

Draft wise, yea, still need to bring in any number of prospects there. This group is adequate for run blocking but marginal, at best, in pass protection. It's tiresome, but it's far from being solved, so we just have to keep plugging away at it until it's acceptable.

We will be facing another tough test next week in AZ, with high stakes that will see us go from possible division winners and staying alive for HFA, or dropping back down to WC status.

Overall, I'm beyond proud of our team. The Seahawks have fought hard all season to get where they are now, and I never imagined us having this opportunity a few months ago. We have a great shot of being the #1 seed. That's about the most 12's could ask for heading into game 15.

[Hawktawk]

Overall, I'm beyond proud of our team. The Seahawks have fought hard all season to get where they are now, and I never imagined us having this opportunity a few months ago. We have a great shot of being the #1 seed. That's about the most 12's could ask for heading into game 15.[/quote]

Its more than I could have hoped for when they were 3-3 and reeling with the Harvin debacle. 7-1 since that weekend. Amazing.

[Bird Droppings]

They've got my respect, ZMan.

If I were to craft a storybook story, it would be the fairy tale of the Hawks comeback from being out of it.

The enthusiasm after the malingering malfeasance after a team meeting when The Earl of Thomas told them to stop crunching sunflower seeds and cracking nuts instead seemed to be the hot, hot, hot air to get them off the ground.

Yeah, we see some chest pumping from the offense too, but, as the talking hawk points out, it was a unique quarterback, a one of a kind running back, and whatever cage you want to try to put Doug Baldwin in ... probably an MMA octagon cage ... and the release of the stink bomb that got the offense going.

Now the stink bomb sez he is not gonna take a pay cut next year ... ha ... he may see another kind of cut from the Jetz.

It is a fine time to be flying through a fairy tale ... we are only in the middle of it.

Want a subplot? The next superbowl is in a village in Arizona, where an incredible communicator has coached a team up in what could be an even grander fairy tale.

Rememer when our very own Hqwkshack Kemo Saavy started a poll to determine the team most likely to take the NFC West throne from the Hawks. One person out of over forty predicted that team would be the team that could be playing in their own stadium on superbowl sunday.

So, how is it our fairy tale sells better in the latest marketing survey from Las Vegas? Our fairy tale is a 7 point favorite over them in their own home.

Proud of this team?

Hey, it's a team that wasn't even a team 6 weeks ago.

Ain't nobody shouldn't be proud of this team.

FOX has had it's A Team on "America's Game of the Week" the past two weeks talking about this team.

And a huge bunch of national media bandwagon jumpers are grabbing as quickly as they can.

Some don't even know the Oline is full of holes.

zoom

[Zorn76]

Well said, BD, nice post.

[mykc14]

The quick pass he had to Baldwin to get a 1st down on 3rd and 5 is what I'd like to see more of. We actually had a bubble screen or two work Sunday, but I think there's room for more routes that are closer to 1st down marker in the middle of the field.

You might get your wish. In his presser today Pete talked about just that. They have been working on those quicker routes the past few weeks and we should be looking for more of them in the next few weeks. Pete likes the decisions that RW makes on those throws and it should have the added bennefit of opening things up downfield if they hit those early.

[mykc14]

That a very nice breakdown of our O line. Thank goodness we have a running back and a QB who can be effective with poor line play.


Just a thought. I was kind of surprised Arians went around his #2 and started a guy with 7 picks and no TDs in his career.

I wonder if Arians decided to hide the rook from Seattle's film study, give him some practice reps and yank Lindley early if he isn't producing?Either way I have a feeling we will see that big rookie at some point during the game.

He did play a significant amount in the Denver game when Stanton was hurt earlier this year. He looked terrible, but did throw a long (very lucky) TD pass. Pete talked about knowing both Lidley and Thomas from their college days as they scouted Thomas going into the draft and Lindley played at San Diego State.

[NorthHawk]

Zorn76 wrote:
The quick pass he had to Baldwin to get a 1st down on 3rd and 5 is what I'd like to see more of. We actually had a bubble screen or two work Sunday, but I think there's room for more routes that are closer to 1st down marker in the middle of the field.



You might get your wish. In his presser today Pete talked about just that. They have been working on those quicker routes the past few weeks and we should be looking for more of them in the next few weeks. Pete likes the decisions that RW makes on those throws and it should have the added bennefit of opening things up downfield if they hit those early."

I'm wondering when they are going to send Richardson deep to use his speed and perhaps get the Defense thinking about it.

[mykc14]

Zorn76 wrote:


I'm wondering when they are going to send Richardson deep to use his speed and perhaps get the Defense thinking about it.

I have been wondering this as well. I can only remember 1 time that they threw it deep to him and he wasn't really open on that play but RW took a shot. I would like to see it if nothing more than to open things up underneath. I also have liked what they can do out of their doubles wide formation that we saw a lot in the Eagles game but only once (that I can remember) against the niners. It really puts pressure on the D and gives the Wide receivers a lot of space if the D loads up inside. Basically it allows them to dictate where they want to go based on the way the D lines up. I don't like using it would be nice to see it 5 or 6 times a game, just because there is so much you can do out of it.

[NorthHawk]

But then again, the OL has to give Russ enough time for Richardson to get deep.
It's a bit of a conundrum.

[Anthony]

Given Rw is under pressure a league leading 46.1% of his drop backs, and it is not close, you can see why he does not have time to throw deep unless he creates it. FYI he is also a league leading 68.* % accuracy under pressure and again not close.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2300 ... e-seahawks

Add to that QB leading rushing yards and tds, 15th over all in rushing and it is easy to see how this offense would be screwed without him. Now imagine if we could get his some help in the form of an avg pass blocking oline(we are ranked 23rd) and stud WR.

[NorthHawk]

Given Rw is under pressure a league leading 46.1% of his drop backs, and it is not close, you can see why he does not have time to throw deep unless he creates it. FYI he is also a league leading 68.* % accuracy under pressure and again not close.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2300 ... e-seahawks

Add to that QB leading rushing yards and tds, 15th over all in rushing and it is easy to see how this offense would be screwed without him. Now imagine if we could get his some help in the form of an avg pass blocking oline(we are ranked 23rd) and stud WR.

How long in this and the PI forum have we been asking for OL in the draft?
I doubt we go this route with the first pick, but I'm hoping from 2nd to 5th we make a couple of selections.

[Anthony]

Pete wants to throw quicker:

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/

Yeah good luck with that, as the article said even with that Rw was getting hit. AZ has already shown it can man up on our Wr and contain them, because we have no one that can consistently beat man to man without RWs help. Not to mention quick hitters need the Wr and QB to be on the same page, and WR to get to their spots something our WR have not shown they can do. I see either a lot of INTs, or a lot of Rw having to pump because our WR are not were they should be or open. We have shown no interest in really fixing the oline, and no interest in finding a big WR, and no interest in running route trees that are NFL level. I am concerned on 2 fronts. RWs health and RWs desire to stay in a place were they care little for passing and he wants to be the best QB ever.

This game worries me a lot, and could go a long way in deciding not just this year but the next few as this could be the nail in our coffin of keeping RW. And please before anyone says they will franchise him, no they will not. If Rw decides he doe snot want to be here for all the reasons I mentioned, he will hold out and only come in once they agree not to franchise him and then he will be gone.

Some of you might think this scenario will not happen, but think about it. How much more running for his life does Rw want to do? How much of throwing to avg at best Wr does he want to do. How much of having the fewest attempts does he want, how much of hearing how this team is all about the defense does he want?

If you saying yeah but were will he go, look no further than Buffalo, Houston, Philly for starters.

Now I know some of you will say, they have tried to improve the oline and WR. Maybe they have but it is results that count not trying. They have failed at both.

A lot more to this game than simple win or loose.

FYI our oline now ranks 28th in pass blocking.

[HumanCockroach]

Lot more to it than that Anthony, you are taking a very narrow view on the subject. How many SB's does he want to win? Does he want to go to a team that has LESS results, like you said, results matter, and to the best of my knowledge, NO ONE has had better results in the last three years ( yhis entire career) than Seattle. Does he want to go to a team that can't win if he has a down spell? Does he want Manning numbers, and only one title or does he want lower numbers and multiple Lombardi's ( ala Aikmen) really there are thousands of questions to be asked, and no one knows those answers except for one man, and unfortunately, his name isn't Anthony, or Roach or Bob, or River or North or etc. NO ONE knows what the future holds for Wilson, and claiming that "this" game is the deciding factor seems so far out there man.

I kind of doubt that Wilson sees it the same way as you. They DID address the WR position, right?? I mean they DID invest heavily into it, and provided Wilson with an "elite" explosive receiver right? Whatever the outcome of that move was, it isn't like they did not do it. How many Mega Trons do you think are running around out there?? Seriously man I doubt Wilson is foggy about it. They seldom are available, and even LESS seldom available when a team that perennially are winning have access to them. It is unrealistic to think Seattle can just go grab one. The same holds true for special lineman, if these things were so easy to come by, the Hawks would have them, hell EVERY team would have them, doesn't work that way, and I would guess Wilson grasps that concept better than you or I.

[Anthony]

Lot more to it than that Anthony, you are taking a very narrow view on the subject. How many SB's does he want to win? Does he want to go to a team that has LESS results, like you said, results matter, and to the best of my knowledge, NO ONE has had better results in the last three years ( yhis entire career) than Seattle. Does he want to go to a team that can't win if he has a down spell? Does he want Manning numbers, and only one title or does he want lower numbers and multiple Lombardi's ( ala Aikmen) really there are thousands of questions to be asked, and no one knows those answers except for one man, and unfortunately, his name isn't Anthony, or Roach or Bob, or River or North or etc. NO ONE knows what the future holds for Wilson, and claiming that "this" game is the deciding factor seems so far out there man.

I kind of doubt that Wilson sees it the same way as you. They DID address the WR position, right?? I mean they DID invest heavily into it, and provided Wilson with an "elite" explosive receiver right? Whatever the outcome of that move was, it isn't like they did not do it. How many Mega Trons do you think are running around out there?? Seriously man I doubt Wilson is foggy about it. They seldom are available, and even LESS seldom available when a team that perennially are winning have access to them. It is unrealistic to think Seattle can just go grab one. The same holds true for special lineman, if these things were so easy to come by, the Hawks would have them, hell EVERY team would have them, doesn't work that way, and I would guess Wilson grasps that concept better than you or I.

Agreed on most, except the lineman and WR thing. I mean dude we are 28th, last year 32nd. You do not need a special lineman just an avg one. As to WR dude really Harvin is not a WR he is a scat back at best, and we did not use him like a WR. Not saying we need Mega Tron, but how a Joe Jurivicius ( I think I misspelled that). All I am saying is that will matter to him, Also lets remember if Rw did leave our chances of winning a lot would go down big time. Bills, Houston both have good defenses, olines ranked higher than ours, and some good WRs. While you are right I have no clue what Rw is thinking, to think everything said is not in his head too would be being short sighted. To think the only place he can go and win a title is hear is short sighted. Him going to Houston would make them title contenders right away. Just saying all these things will play a part in what he does, and this game will impact it as well. Especially if it is the final straw to him when and if he gets the crap beat out of him...again. OR god forbid gets hurt.

[jshawaii22]

Here's a reaction from last week as it relates to this week by ESPN... not a favorable comment or two, now is it, you know that part about "being under duress" while dropping back.

if upcoming opponent Arizona wants to know how to keep Wilson in check, a look at what the 49ers did defensively might be a clue. Wilson completed a season-low 27 percent of his passes against five or more pass rushers, including an interception.

He was 3-for-11 against the 49ers' blitz with an average of only 5.7 yards per throw. Wilson also was 0-for-8 throwing while under duress, the most attempts without a completion by a player in a game this season.

js

[mykc14]

This game worries me a lot, and could go a long way in deciding not just this year but the next few as this could be the nail in our coffin of keeping RW. And please before anyone says they will franchise him, no they will not. If Rw decides he doe snot want to be here for all the reasons I mentioned, he will hold out and only come in once they agree not to franchise him and then he will be gone.


FYI our oline now ranks 28th in pass blocking.

There is no way that the Hawks would do that, come on. If he were, in someway, unwilling to resign with us we would absolutely f-tag him and if he somehow held out we would just let him. The hawks hold the cards in that scenario. What have you seen in his character over the last 3 years that would lead you to believe that he would do that and turn down some sort of reasonable offer from the Hawks? He obvoiusly loves PC and JS. This is the team that was willing to take a chance on him. He has the best D in the NFL and could be part of many SB championships. He has been nothing but a team first guy and that will not change. Don't worry about this happening because there is no way in hell that it does (unless somehow the Hawks were to seriously low-ball him, which I do not see happening either).

[mykc14]

Here's a reaction from last week as it relates to this week by ESPN... not a favorable comment or two, now is it, you know that part about "being under duress" while dropping back.

if upcoming opponent Arizona wants to know how to keep Wilson in check, a look at what the 49ers did defensively might be a clue. Wilson completed a season-low 27 percent of his passes against five or more pass rushers, including an interception.

He was 3-for-11 against the 49ers' blitz with an average of only 5.7 yards per throw. Wilson also was 0-for-8 throwing while under duress, the most attempts without a completion by a player in a game this season.

js

I read that also but keep in mind that other than last week his numbers have been excellent while under duress so last week seems like a bit of an anomoly. What I would worry about, however, is the fact that the Tards had 7 sacks against wilson last time they played and that was at the Clink with a healthier O-line. We need to seriously hope Unger can play and play at a high level. Luckily their O is going to have a very hard time moving the ball against us also. I'm hoping 14-16 points can win this game.

[Anthony]

Here's a reaction from last week as it relates to this week by ESPN... not a favorable comment or two, now is it, you know that part about "being under duress" while dropping back.

if upcoming opponent Arizona wants to know how to keep Wilson in check, a look at what the 49ers did defensively might be a clue. Wilson completed a season-low 27 percent of his passes against five or more pass rushers, including an interception.

He was 3-for-11 against the 49ers' blitz with an average of only 5.7 yards per throw. Wilson also was 0-for-8 throwing while under duress, the most attempts without a completion by a player in a game this season.

js

Thats one game over all he has been doing very well under duress. The biggest issue is why Is he under duress so much? answer oline. He only threw 24 passes and if 8 were under duress that would mean 33%. That's not good.

[Anthony]

There is no way that the Hawks would do that, come on. If he were, in someway, unwilling to resign with us we would absolutely f-tag him and if he somehow held out we would just let him. The hawks hold the cards in that scenario. What have you seen in his character over the last 3 years that would lead you to believe that he would do that and turn down some sort of reasonable offer from the Hawks? He obvoiusly loves PC and JS. This is the team that was willing to take a chance on him. He has the best D in the NFL and could be part of many SB championships. He has been nothing but a team first guy and that will not change. Don't worry about this happening because there is no way in hell that it does (unless somehow the Hawks were to seriously low-ball him, which I do not see happening either).

Simple he wants to be the best Qb ever, he has said that, unless the Hawks change their philosophy and get him weapons and a better oline it will not happen here. Being a team first guy is great and he is, but now it is his "Me time; like any athlete. Also I hate to tell you the FO doe snot have the leverage. The hawks have no other real Qb that can keep this team relevant, If he decided he was not going to resign here, and held out because he knew they would put the tag on him, either they would agre not to so he would come in, or he would not come in and our chances of winning go down huge. I am just saying it is a possibility, he wants to be the best this FO has done little to put him in position to do that. They only way he stays is if 1 they make a reasonable offer, and 2 they agree to get him weapons and an oline and let him throw more. Now all that said I can see them doing just that. But we will see.

[NorthHawk]

I sure hope Anthony's nuclear scenario about Wilson is very wrong, but only Russ knows.

In our favor is Pete was probably the only coach who would have given him a real chance to be the starter considering when he was drafted they had just signed Flynn to a fairly big contract. Not only that, but many coaches would never have given him a chance because of the height issue alone and I think there are some out there who still wouldn't.

[HumanCockroach]

Sounds to me like you are saying it's tbhe offense scheme. This IS an above average line, and it isn't rocket science to figure out what area they excell in, they run block, it IS what this team is built for. The HAVE invested and invested HEAVILY in the receiver core, both in dollars and picks, also not hard to see. Whether Rice can stay on the field ( obviously not) or Harvin can get his own headd out of his arse, the money, picks and investments have been there. Multiple picks, and quite a few dollars have likewise been invested on that line as well.

Those things are simply fact, and no matter if the desired results have been gained, they will remain the facts. If Joe was still playing I would endorse his signing, but the truth is, he isn't, and finding him isn't as simple as saying, go get him. Most receivers aren't going to be chomping on the bit to come into a run heavy offense, which leaves Seattle exactly where they have been, which is either draft one ( which they continue to try to do over and over again) find one in free agency ( something they have also attempted) snag one via unconventional methods, ie CFL or some other league ( something they have also attempted) or pony up a ton of cash/ trade/ picks ( also attempted) .....

People may not be happy with the return on those investments, but it simply isn't for lack of trying, and that remains the truth. I would like to think that an uber intelligent QB would see that, understand that, and not base that big of a decision on simply selfishness and pettiness, but ultimately, I don't know, and neither does anyone else here.

As for the line, eh, I'm not going to get into some long drawn out debate about the "quality" of said line, it is what it is. They are what Seattle has, after numerous and constant play with it. Wilson DOES own some responsibility in some of the protection problems ( for instance he had a pocket in the Philly game for 9 seconds, and NEVER delivered the ball) and anyone claiming that there isn't "timing" issues on some of those plays, isn't watching the game. Yes Wilson has to move far to much, however, often times the line is asked to guess which way he is moving, LONG after a ball should have been delivered.

With a QB that extends plays, and holds the ball, pressures and sacks come with it, something I've pointed out before, it goes hand in hand with how Wilson plays the game. If Wilson leaves for the reasons you profess, that is far more on the staff and the system, than the individual players you seem hell bent on blaming. Simply put, Seattle will NOT be passing the ball 50 times a game, unless they HAVE TO any time in the near future.

I have seen you professing the doomsday injury scenario for almost three full seasons Anthony, it hasn't come to pass, and simply put, that is a HELL of a good stretch for ANY QB with or without the aforementioned receivers or line, so something is working fine.

[jshawaii22]

That's a very interesting scenario... that Russell would leave the team he wanted to be drafted by... simply because the salary cap and other issues have given him a crappy OLine for 3 years. Hmmm... never say never, but I wouldn't bet much on that one. If anything, it will be the other way around and he will sign something team friendly like Kaepernick did to allow us to keep what we have together and maybe sign that help we need.

I also believe that in Russells world as sports in general, the rings the things and nowhere else in the NFL do they need a QB with a team already in place to do that. We are built for the decade. He goes backwards with anyone else.

js

[Anthony]

Sounds to me like you are saying it's tbhe offense scheme. This IS an above average line, and it isn't rocket science to figure out what area they excell in, they run block, it IS what this team is built for. The HAVE invested and invested HEAVILY in the receiver core, both in dollars and picks, also not hard to see. Whether Rice can stay on the field ( obviously not) or Harvin can get his own headd out of his arse, the money, picks and investments have been there. Multiple picks, and quite a few dollars have likewise been invested on that line as well.

Those things are simply fact, and no matter if the desired results have been gained, they will remain the facts. If Joe was still playing I would endorse his signing, but the truth is, he isn't, and finding him isn't as simple as saying, go get him. Most receivers aren't going to be chomping on the bit to come into a run heavy offense, which leaves Seattle exactly where they have been, which is either draft one ( which they continue to try to do over and over again) find one in free agency ( something they have also attempted) snag one via unconventional methods, ie CFL or some other league ( something they have also attempted) or pony up a ton of cash/ trade/ picks ( also attempted) .....

People may not be happy with the return on those investments, but it simply isn't for lack of trying, and that remains the truth. I would like to think that an uber intelligent QB would see that, understand that, and not base that big of a decision on simply selfishness and pettiness, but ultimately, I don't know, and neither does anyone else here.

As for the line, eh, I'm not going to get into some long drawn out debate about the "quality" of said line, it is what it is. They are what Seattle has, after numerous and constant play with it. Wilson DOES own some responsibility in some of the protection problems ( for instance he had a pocket in the Philly game for 9 seconds, and NEVER delivered the ball) and anyone claiming that there isn't "timing" issues on some of those plays, isn't watching the game. Yes Wilson has to move far to much, however, often times the line is asked to guess which way he is moving, LONG after a ball should have been delivered.

With a QB that extends plays, and holds the ball, pressures and sacks come with it, something I've pointed out before, it goes hand in hand with how Wilson plays the game. If Wilson leaves for the reasons you profess, that is far more on the staff and the system, than the individual players you seem hell bent on blaming. Simply put, Seattle will NOT be passing the ball 50 times a game, unless they HAVE TO any time in the near future.

I have seen you professing the doomsday injury scenario for almost three full seasons Anthony, it hasn't come to pass, and simply put, that is a HELL of a good stretch for ANY QB with or without the aforementioned receivers or line, so something is working fine.

So if I understand you, the fact Rw has not gotten hurt yet, means no worries we can just keep things as is, the fact that it is obvious in your post that you feel Rw has a lot more to blame for the lack of protection than almost anyone I know. So sounds like my scenario might play out but for different reasons than I thought, I mean if I had a Qb who was that responsible for the oline playing as bad on pass plays as our does, and who holds unto the ball to long even though WR are open every were, I mean they must be for him holding onto the ball to long to be an issue, it could not be him holding onto it because no one is open, then I would not resign him just get another who would get rid of the ball sooner and problem solved the oline will look better and all those open Wr will get more catches. I mean "often times the issue with the line is him moving" so get a non mobile QB often means over 50% or it is not often. As to their trying, hmm so as long as they try its okay if they fail, hmm seems a lot of coaches get fired for trying but failing, players too. As to him basing his choice on selfishness, sorry it would not be selfishness if he feels he is better off someplace else that is not selfishness.

Then of course you say the one thing I agree with "Most receivers aren't going to be chomping on the bit to come into a run heavy offense" and why would a QB who wants to be the best want to play in a run heavy offense either, especially one who already has a ring?

Be honest your post screamed of the oline issue being on Wilson, I mean you make several statements to that extent. If Wilson is the reason this oline is so bad then why resign him, obviously they and the team would be better with a less mobile QB or one who is mobile but can get rid of the ball quicker, even if no one is open. Or maybe they are and Wilson does not see them. I mean you cannot have it both ways, if Wilson is that big of a problem for the line get another QB, Wilson will have no problem finding another team, and I am sure we will have no problem finding another Qb who works better with this line, and Wr. Of course mind you I do not by any of that at all. While I also believe Wilson has some culpability with some of the oline stuff, it is no place near were you think it is, most of the oline issues are the oline/scheme(50%), after that wr(20%), then play calling/design(20%) then Wilson(10%). If Wilson in your mind is more than 10% of the problem time to get a new QB. To be honest if not for Wilson this oline would look even worse in pass protection than it does and that is not me but almost all the experts on ESPN. However since you more than once made it clear Wilson is to blame and in your words "Most of the time" I will go with that and if that is the case get another QB.

FYI we are 28th in pass blocking and were 32nd last year seems like it would not be to hard to find someone who can be better than the bottom 15% of the league. The problem is per PC they look for run blockers first, which is fine. However why would a team want to pay a QB 18+ mil if they are not going to protect their investment and why would a QB want to play for a tem were he gets the crap beat out of him every week, unless of course your right and it is largely on Wilson, which of course I and almost everyone I know would disagree with.

All that said let me lay a fact for you, fact the oline is awful in pass blocking period, you can try all you want to debate it but there is no fact or eye test that can change that. Fact most of that is on the oline period. Fact we have no Wr that is even close to a #1, fact try as they might to change any of those things, we are 3 years into Wilson tenure they have failed. If I am a Qb who wants to be the best and I am on a team that has shown they are good at finding run orientated line help, good at finding defensive help, but bad a finding any passing orientated help and I want to be the best I would not want to be here. Also as I said if I tried for 3 years and failed I would be fired. They are not nor should they be as they are winning, but it is not in a way or system that as you say ""Most receivers aren't going to be chomping on the bit to come into a run heavy offense" so why would a QB who wants to be the best QB ever want to be here and in fact why would any QB in their prime want to be here. Only Qbs not in their prime or who never had a prime but want to win a ring would want to be here. Only problem no Rw we do not get to and win the SB. No Rw and we are already out of the playoff chase. Despite the obviously large blame you seem to think Wilson shoulders for the oline being crap, no Wilson and no playoffs.

Which brings me back to your statement "Most receivers aren't going to be chomping on the bit to come into a run heavy offense" so why would a QB wanting to be the best QB ever want to. You made my whole point for me with that one statement.

[Anthony]

That's a very interesting scenario... that Russell would leave the team he wanted to be drafted by... simply because the salary cap and other issues have given him a crappy OLine for 3 years. Hmmm... never say never, but I wouldn't bet much on that one. If anything, it will be the other way around and he will sign something team friendly like Kaepernick did to allow us to keep what we have together and maybe sign that help we need.

I also believe that in Russells world as sports in general, the rings the things and nowhere else in the NFL do they need a QB with a team already in place to do that. We are built for the decade. He goes backwards with anyone else.

js

Goes backwards. So if he went to say Houston with that defense, that RB, a top 15 pass blocking oline, Hopkins and Johnson and he step backwards really? Guess what not only does he not step backwards but he jumps forward big time, AFC, 2 big time Wrs, top 15 pass blocking oline. Yeah a huge jump would be coming.

Do not get me wrong I want Wilson to stay, I have been a fan for years waiting for a Franchise QB. We have one, but we are not giving him the tools to succeed. He is succeeding despite the tools, not with them.

[jshawaii22]

Yes, that's going backwards, unless somehow going to an 8-8 team is better then winning a super bowl. Houston has been going backwards for a few years. They aren't winning now with the 'best player on the planet' -- Houston over the Seahawks? No way. Not gonna happen. Try another mid-level team.

js

[mykc14]

Simple he wants to be the best Qb ever, he has said that, unless the Hawks change their philosophy and get him weapons and a better oline it will not happen here. Being a team first guy is great and he is, but now it is his "Me time; like any athlete. Also I hate to tell you the FO doe snot have the leverage. The hawks have no other real Qb that can keep this team relevant, If he decided he was not going to resign here, and held out because he knew they would put the tag on him, either they would agre not to so he would come in, or he would not come in and our chances of winning go down huge. I am just saying it is a possibility, he wants to be the best this FO has done little to put him in position to do that. They only way he stays is if 1 they make a reasonable offer, and 2 they agree to get him weapons and an oline and let him throw more. Now all that said I can see them doing just that. But we will see.

Your missing one fundamental aspect of your argument and that is championships. RW wants to win more championships than any other QB. My guess is that he has a very good opportunity to win *at least* 1 more in the next 3 years (including this year), which would take us through your ridiculous scenario where he doesn't get a contract this offseason playing out his rookie contract and then the following offseason threatens to hold out until the Hawks are somehow forced to promise not to use the f-tag on him. Winning 2 SB's in his first 4 or 5 years would set him up nicely to do just that (win more SB's than any other qb), where as going to another team and starting over wouldn't set him up to do anything. He knows the unique opportunity he has here in Seattle loves the coach and GM. He's not going anywhere.

[mykc14]

Goes backwards. So if he went to say Houston with that defense, that RB, a top 15 pass blocking oline, Hopkins and Johnson and he step backwards really? Guess what not only does he not step backwards but he jumps forward big time, AFC, 2 big time Wrs, top 15 pass blocking oline. Yeah a huge jump would be coming.

Do not get me wrong I want Wilson to stay, I have been a fan for years waiting for a Franchise QB. We have one, but we are not giving him the tools to succeed. He is succeeding despite the tools, not with them.

Not giving him the tools to succeed? Really? This coach/gm drafted him when nobody else would. This coach/gm gave him the opportunity to start as a rookie even though they had just signed an expensive high-profile QB in free agency. This team has the #1 ranked D and #1 ranked running game in the NFL. This coach/GM has been more than willing to put resources towards the bad OL and WR core. This coach/gm has shown him they are willing to do anything to win (including cutting anybody who doesn't buy into their proven system). When this coach/gm sees a weakness they address it in the offseason, so if they see the OL/WR as a major area of need they will put the resources towards improving those areas and RW knows that. RW loves this coach/gm. He loves his teammates. He loves this city/fanbase. He is not going anywhere.

[HumanCockroach]

Anthony, Like I said, not going through this garbage again. I've made my position clear a thousand different ways, and whether you agree with said position , doesn't change it one bit. At no point have I put all the emphasis on Wilson, and at no point have I gone to the extremes you seem so incredibly hell bent on asserting. I want the line improved as well, and I want a better passing game, but I will not absolve the QB from the equation. The work together as a unit, and EVERYONE from the OC to the backup guard holds some blame, and that INCLUDES Wilson.

I laid out the facts, and you can and are entitled to dislike them all you want. Whether Wilson gets injured or not ( an extreme) or doesn't like his line ( an extreme) or going to leave for some reason YOU made up ( an extreme) remains to be seen, and until such time, I am not going to jump to conclusions, false statements, or fret over them.

I'm done with the O-line and receivers fretting ( and have been since the last pointless, irrelevant worry wart debate) and I haved made it clear that I want improvement, doesn't mean they can improve it tomorrow, or this season ( they can't) so I will deal with what is here and in front of me, which is this team can win a SB with the problems they currently have, just like last year.

What Wilson does, is up to Wilson, and I'm cool with that.

[NorthHawk]

I think the OL run blocking is skewed in the positive by Lynch and his abilities as a RB.
I really doubt they are as good as the stats show. We don't see consistent runs by Turbin or Michael early in the game (Lynch takes up most of the carries early), and Wilson's runs aren't often as a result of good run blocking, so the stats might be misleading.

I'm still of the mind the OL needs a serious upgrade both for the run game and passing game.

[mykc14]

I think the OL run blocking is skewed in the positive by Lynch and his abilities as a RB.
I really doubt they are as good as the stats show. We don't see consistent runs by Turbin or Michael early in the game (Lynch takes up most of the carries early), and Wilson's runs aren't often as a result of good run blocking, so the stats might be misleading.

I'm still of the mind the OL needs a serious upgrade both for the run game and passing game.

This is probably true, but as HC has argued, the pass blocking looks a little worse because of the way RW plays at times. Last week was really bad as they had free rushers multiple times, but sometimes RW doesn't do himself any favors by holding onto the ball a little long, waiting for the big play to open up. He also doesn't step into the pocket as pressure comes from the outside, he usually scrambles into that pressure (most of the time escaping for a big play). Again, I am not saying this to knock RW all I am saying is that the way he plays increases the amount of pressure he gets. Most of the time this leads to a big play, either by him running downfield or holding onto the ball long enough to get a guy open for a big gain. At the same time our OL does need to improve in some areas and I think they will. Britt is a rookie who will only get better. Health, IMO a big factor in our OL play. Unger and Okung (the 2 most important positions on the OL) have missed multiple games, again. Continuity/Communication: this has also played into our pressure issue. Is it on RW or the center or the coaching staff? I don't know for sure but it is an issue. Too often the line doesn't shift when it needs to leading to an unblocked rusher, this call is often times the QB's to make but not always, this is probably partly due to injuries and communication. With all of that being said there is no doubt the OL could play better and there is room for improvement.