Official Seahawks vs 49er Post Game Thread

[monkey]

It was a lousy call, BUT I can see why they made it, they've made that sort of call all year long.
Bottom line, if no one has the power to change it, and coaches cannot even challenge it, then why are league officials commenting on it and fueling the fire?
It's pointless, and in the end it is NOT the reason the Niners lost.

[Zorn76]

I hear ya, fellas.

Perfectly happy that we were on the right side of that call. We'll see if they (NFL) feel it necessary to make changes to some degree next offseason.

[Hawk Sista]

In all honesty, I would have been furious if that call had gone the other way. But as has been pointed out, we win anyway - even if you take all 7 points we still win 10-7. All my niner friends texted me (we were behind in the game as we got a late start). The way they were telling it it was like it was the difference in the game.

Once I watched it and saw the score, I just had to laugh. I wish it wouldny have been called and I surely wish Joe & Troy would have not incited Niner fans to feel like they were hosed out of a shot at the playoffs w/ that call. There was a missed O. holding on 3rd down that extended one of their drives and nobody screams about that for 20 minutes (or even see/mention it).

I think we need to play better to repeat, even to make the playoffs. The score should have been 23-7 were it not for idiotic mistakes. That said, SF played some inspired ball and I thought they would. After watching the Super Bowl version of Rain City redemption, I remembered just how close they were to getting us in the NFCCG even after all their fumbles and mistakes they had a first down at our 19 to win it.

[THX-1138]

Concerning all the talk about the Roughing the Passer call:

In real time, it looks bad. I can't blame a ref for making that call. I think the Niners would be more pizzed about the Hitting a Defenseless Receiver call P-Rich drew on the San Fran's. That one looked to me like he caught the ball and took a couple of steps in possession while looking at the tackler. In other words, a Kam Chancellor type hit.

[Long Time Fan]

Look at Hochuli's position during the play. He is effectively behind Wilson and it is almost impossible for him to see the defenders helmet position. Hochuli is extrapolating from what he sees. Hochuli knows Wilson has released the ball and the defender has his helmet into Wilson's chest. Hochuli is erroring on the side of caution without knowing for certain if it is crown of helmet or otherwise.

I think that from Hochuli's vantage point that he has to throw the flag. His error is that he is out of position.

[NorthHawk]

Didn't leading with the helmet used to be a penalty?
For some reason I thought it was, but since nobody mentioned it I assume it has been removed or modified.

[Long Time Fan]

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/49 ... deo/250188

Watch the video and tell me how Hochuli can see the head position of the defender. Video also shows angle from behind Wilson (Hochuli's position), Hochuli is out of position and sees Wilson hit late with the defender coming in head first; he has to throw the flag. I also have no doubt that PC beseeching the NFL for penalty balance and the 12th man's presence assisted the flag's emergence from Hoch's pocket.

[kalibane]

It all just underscores the point that these unnecessary roughness penalties need to be reviewable, especially since the refs are instructed to error on the side of "safety". Whether it's this or the Browner hit against Gates, or Kam's hit on Vernon Davis, too many bogus personal fouls are being enforced.

[Zorn76]

Didn't leading with the helmet used to be a penalty?
For some reason I thought it was, but since nobody mentioned it I assume it has been removed or modified.

It is.
Leading with the head is a penalty, with an emphasis on the crown of the helmet being used.
I felt the defender did his best to keep his head as level as possible, and did a good job of it.
To me, it was just a good hit on our QB.
I'm just sayin' with our type of defense, I want us to be able to hit the QB like that without being penalized, that's all.
We are the type of aggressive D that hits hard, obviously, as are the 49ers.

Had we not got the TD a play or two later, then it woulda been 13-7 after kicking a fg. Still enough to win, but the 10 pt margin really forced SF to throw more than they probably wanted to. They were skrewed anyway, really, with Gore and (later) Hyde out, so I think we still win.

[Long Time Fan]

so I think we still win.

Agreed. There is much about the "noise" surrounding this call that irks me. Aikman and Buck got completely stuck with their indignation of what I saw as an understandable "error on the side of caution" call. The "we got screwed" mentality of 9er fans over a consequential but non-tipping point call. The NFL weighing in to publicly take a stand on a judgement call made by an out of position ref without stating that the judgement call was not made from an ideal vantage point.

In the end the outcome was unaltered. That needs to be added to the commentary.

[HumanCockroach]

Didn't leading with the helmet used to be a penalty?
For some reason I thought it was, but since nobody mentioned it I assume it has been removed or modified.

No, as long as the facemask is the first contact, it isn't a foul and to the best of my knowledge never has been. Leading with the top of the head ( crown) is, a variation of "spearing". Most on here, and most playing in the NFL were taught to "lead with the head, face up, look at the numbers, and wrap up" , the guy, did what most have been taught to do, since pee wee. Seattle does it differently, but that is the exception, not the rule.

[HumanCockroach]

In all honesty, I would have been furious if that call had gone the other way. But as has been pointed out, we win anyway - even if you take all 7 points we still win 10-7. All my niner friends texted me (we were behind in the game as we got a late start). The way they were telling it it was like it was the difference in the game.

Once I watched it and saw the score, I just had to laugh. I wish it wouldny have been called and I surely wish Joe & Troy would have not incited Niner fans to feel like they were hosed out of a shot at the playoffs w/ that call. There was a missed O. holding on 3rd down that extended one of their drives and nobody screams about that for 20 minutes (or even see/mention it).

I think we need to play better to repeat, even to make the playoffs. The score should have been 23-7 were it not for idiotic mistakes. That said, SF played some inspired ball and I thought they would. After watching the Super Bowl version of Rain City redemption, I remembered just how close they were to getting us in the NFCCG even after all their fumbles and mistakes they had a first down at our 19 to win it.

Eh, they did the same thing last year with the Bowman fumble recovery, still to this day they insist as a whole that even though Seattle did not score a single point, AND they actually got BETTER field position because of it, that if they had only been aloud the recovery on that one play, they win the NFCCG going away. Don't listen to the fools, ain't worth the time.

[Hawk Sista]

you are correct and I shall pay them no never mind, right after I collect my winnings for the year, Thank you!

[NorthHawk]

NorthHawk wrote:Didn't leading with the helmet used to be a penalty?
For some reason I thought it was, but since nobody mentioned it I assume it has been removed or modified.



No, as long as the facemask is the first contact, it isn't a foul and to the best of my knowledge never has been. Leading with the top of the head ( crown) is, a variation of "spearing". Most on here, and most playing in the NFL were taught to "lead with the head, face up, look at the numbers, and wrap up" , the guy, did what most have been taught to do, since pee wee. Seattle does it differently, but that is the exception, not the rule."

Thanks, that explains it.
However, Moody is 6-1, so he has to bend and is pushing past a defender.
I don't have a recording of the play, but I seem to remember him being almost horizontal when contacting Wilson.
If my memory is right, and he was almost horizontal, how could he get his face mask to be the first contact?

By the way, I think the rule resulting in the call is a bad one as there is so much to see in a short period of time, but am just discussing the issue.

[HumanCockroach]

I think you are remembering the Safety that flew in after Moody made initial contact, even if Moody was horizontal, it really isn't that difficult to look up ( which is what would be the case if he was Horizontal but hit with the facemask first) at first I thought it was for "driving" the QB into the ground ( as my recollection of the play was that Wilson went up, and then back down, with his little jump pass he does sometimes with a taller player in front of him) but in the replay, that didn't even look close.

Even Houcholi said it was a blown call ( as well as the NFL spin doctor Blandino) so I'm really not all that interested in reviewing it, it originally looked liked an abysmal call, and them admitting it confirms it for me.

[Futureite]

That 'last play of the 1st half should never of been a pass over the middle to the 10 yard line with one of the best FG kickers in the NFL sitting on the sidelines.
There, I said it. Pete should know that the points were more important down 7-3 and playing flat in the first 1/2.

49ers have a lot of issues to deal with, health of the players being one of the more obvious ones. Their OLine just doesn't look like the one from last year and your use or unuse of your all-pro tight end is shocking.
Future, what do you think is going to happen to your coach and Kaep this off-season?

js

JS,

I think we keep Kaep. I know he has had some struggles this year, but I do not think our O is structured for him to succeed. In years past Kaep had some great success using his big arm to throw deep comeback routes, deep outs etc. He was one of the best in completion % for passes of 20+ YDS in the NFL in 2012 and part of 2013. But those teams had Randy Moss, Ted Ginn, Delaney Walker, Mario Manningham and even Kyle Williams to take the top of the D. Those guys created separation for Kap to throw those type of routes that made him a near elite QB. Now, though we have a talented WR Corp, they all have similar physical abilities. This has forced Kap to throw with more timing and anticipation, and with the lack of a consistent run game Ds are just sitting on these routes and jamming everything. Not to mention that our Oline has been horrendous. True, Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers could thrive with our receiving corp. But obviously Kap is not those guys.

So in short, I think our QB is fine and he stays. Give him a better, less antiquated system (our current system's pace is like watching someone walk through quicksand), draft a big play WR and acquire a FA speed guy and I am willing to bet he is back to a playmaking QB that can take us to a SB.

As to JH? Who knows. We have an eff up for an owner and I have never liked him. I put a huge portion of the problems on Jed York. This is your team Jed, you make the decisions, right? Wrong. Jed is never on the forefront of any problems with this team. He never publicly backs any coach and he never squashes internal or external issues. I thought the smartest thing he ever did was to finally hire a football guy in Jim Harbaugh and relinquish all control to him. Apparently, that was just a mirage. Apparently, Jim Harbaugh never had the control that I thought he did. So, Jed is back to square 1 as a moron in my book and I have no clue what he will do with respect to our coach.

LOL Niner fans are already talking about next season. I am in that group. I am sure this makes you guys happy . I guess football is a 12 month a yr, 24 hr a day thing now. So it's never really over and there is always something to look forward to. I am looking forward to the first no stress playoff stretch I've had in the last 4 years. In the end, 11 of the 12 fan bases that make the playoffs will be depressed in February. This is the silver lining of being one of the losers now .

[burrrton]

Even Houcholi said it was a blown call

Link?

[Futureite]

It all just underscores the point that these unnecessary roughness penalties need to be reviewable, especially since the refs are instructed to error on the side of "safety". Whether it's this or the Browner hit against Gates, or Kam's hit on Vernon Davis, too many bogus personal fouls are being enforced.

You have to admit that hit on RW was a horrendous call and it completely effected the remainder of the game. I do believe the Hawks still win, mind you, but the flip side is we did not have a chance to see if that would have been the case. There is no way to minimize the impact that call had on the rest of the game. It was such a bad call that any fan has to wonder just how you can hit a QB, especially one that moves as much as RW.

[NorthHawk]

Hit the QB with the shoulder instead of the head. That takes out any possibility of a penalty.

[burrrton]

It was not a horrendous call for fck's sake. It wasn't a vicious hit, but in today's NFL if you lower your damn forehead *at all* on a QB you're more likely than not to get flagged.

Even if you disagree with the call (many do), it was eminently defensible. The "defenseless receiver" flag was a worse call for gawd's sake.

By the way, on Inside the NFL just now just now, Mike Carey stated it was the right call, too (for you, Future, since you seem to like appealing to authority).

You have to admit that hit on RW was a horrendous call and it completely effected the remainder of the game (sic).

LOL. Oh, of couuurse it did. And that early offsides in XLVIII "completely affected" the way the Broncos went about remainder of the game.

Tell you what- you run a play on our side of the field in the second half (or whatever the level of failure was) and we can consider talking about a call that didn't go your way.

[RiverDog]

You have to admit that hit on RW was a horrendous call and it completely effected the remainder of the game. I do believe the Hawks still win, mind you, but the flip side is we did not have a chance to see if that would have been the case. There is no way to minimize the impact that call had on the rest of the game. It was such a bad call that any fan has to wonder just how you can hit a QB, especially one that moves as much as RW.

I agree that it was a bad call and that it was significant in that it turned what would have been a 6 point, one score game into a 10 point, two score game.

But to say that it completely effected the remainder of the game ignores both the play that was already occurring before that call was made and the play that ensued afterwards. First off, there was over 13 minutes left in the game and the Niners had all their timeouts when that call was made, so there was plenty of time for the Niners to score twice and thus had little if any effect on their play calling. Secondly, the Niners were completely shut down in the entire second half. Even with the advantage of using 4 downs to gain 10 yards and with the Hawks playing to prevent the big play, the Niners couldn't even get within FG range the rest of the way so to think that the ultimate outcome would have changed any had that call not gone against the Niners is pure fantasy not supported by any evidence related to how the game was trending.

[kalibane]

You have to admit that hit on RW was a horrendous call and it completely effected the remainder of the game. I do believe the Hawks still win, mind you, but the flip side is we did not have a chance to see if that would have been the case. There is no way to minimize the impact that call had on the rest of the game. It was such a bad call that any fan has to wonder just how you can hit a QB, especially one that moves as much as RW.

Not really sure why you are asking this follow up question. I clearly just included it in a group of calls that serve as evidence of why personal fouls need to be reviewable.

It also makes no sense to say "especially a QB like RW". On this particular play RW was doing exactly what you said he doesn't do. Standing in the pocket and delivering the ball in the face of a rush. And when Wilson does run he almost never takes a hit, much like Kaep so it's not like he's drawing a bunch of roughing penalties based on his style of play.

You're acting like this is one of the worst calls in NFL history or something which is pure hyperbole. There are bad roughing calls like this every single year.

I also think the fact that there was pretty much a full quarter to play and the Niners failed to score a single point for the rest of the game, it's really hard to act like this "completely effected" the remainder of the game. The niners either needed 2 field goals or a TD (w/o the penalty) or a TD and a FG with the penalty.

If they were able to kick a field goal you would have a point because then they would be down three in a position to play for a FG instead of a TD, but they were never even able to kick a field goal so the play calling was not meaningfully impacted. Whether it was a 10 point lead or a 6 point lead they were playing from the position that a TD would be nice but a FG would be perfectly acceptable.

[RiverDog]

Not really sure why you are asking this follow up question. I clearly just included it in a group of calls that serve as evidence of why personal fouls need to be reviewable.

Whether it was a 10 point lead or a 6 point lead they were playing from the position that a TD would be nice but a FG would be perfectly acceptable.

I don't know if they need to make them reviewable in order to get the play called correctly. The game is slowed down enough as it is. Their super sophisticated control center should be able to radio the lead official and tell them to pick up the flag like they should have done on Harvin's TD run vs. San Diego.

I absolutely agree with your last sentence and I was thinking the exact same thing prior to the call, ie that all we had to do was to come away with points and the game was ours to lose. The primary objective was the FG, the TD was frosting on the cake.

[Futureite]

Burrton;

This is why I basically cannot even talk foorball with a lot of Hawk fans anymore. For F's sake can you just show a lil' humility and admit it was a horrendous call even under today's rules?? And even my GF understands that it dramatically wffected the rest of the game. You don't need to prove that it cpulda been the right call or the Hawks got jobbed somewhere elae in this game or in some other play. Our guy didn't hit RW late, he did turn his head to the side, Hochuli wasn't even in position to throw the flag, and the NFL has admitted it was the wrong call. And it was, end of story.

I listened to your radio guys afterwards for about 20 min and I swear 85% of it was just chiding the 49ers; making fun of Baalke for slamming the table in the booth, claiming he's the "biggest baby" and "GMs aren't supose to act like that". Give me a FN break. Something is wrong if our GM doesn't get upset with some horrendous calls. It's the 2nd FN yr in a row we've been jobbed in that stadium, so why not show some class?? A lot of you seem bent in on rubbing it in or proving you are 10x better than us under every possible argument. I am not blaming this loss on that call and few Niner fans are either for the exact reason you mentioned. Not to mention the fact that we were basically out of the playoffs regardless.

[burrrton]

For F's sake can you just show a lil' humility and admit it was a horrendous call even under today's rules??

*Can* I? Of course. THAT call, however, wasn't all that bad- tell Moody to not put his forehead into the gddmn QB next time and he won't get flagged.

Or do you think he didn't put his forehead into RW's chest?

[mykc14]

Burrton;

This is why I basically cannot even talk foorball with a lot of Hawk fans anymore. For F's sake can you just show a lil' humility and admit it was a horrendous call even under today's rules?? And even my GF understands that it dramatically wffected the rest of the game. You don't need to prove that it cpulda been the right call or the Hawks got jobbed somewhere elae in this game or in some other play. Our guy didn't hit RW late, he did turn his head to the side, Hochuli wasn't even in position to throw the flag, and the NFL has admitted it was the wrong call. And it was, end of story.

I listened to your radio guys afterwards for about 20 min and I swear 85% of it was just chiding the 49ers; making fun of Baalke for slamming the table in the booth, claiming he's the "biggest baby" and "GMs aren't supose to act like that". Give me a FN break. Something is wrong if our GM doesn't get upset with some horrendous calls. It's the 2nd FN yr in a row we've been jobbed in that stadium, so why not show some class?? A lot of you seem bent in on rubbing it in or proving you are 10x better than us under every possible argument. I am not blaming this loss on that call and few Niner fans are either for the exact reason you mentioned. Not to mention the fact that we were basically out of the playoffs regardless.

LOL!!!

[HumanCockroach]

It's the 2nd FN yr in a row we've been jobbed in that stadium, so why not show some class

And HERE is the reason no one even bats an eye. The Niners didn't get "jobbed" in this stadium, the Niners had calls blown, ( just like Seattle by the way, in their OWN stadium) welcome to Seattles world, they been "getting jobbed" since they got a franchise, and probably a reason why no one who roots for Seattle, ever feels bad for a franchise and fanbase that received the benefit of those types ofr calls for a couple decades.

Was it a horrible call? Yes, I said so in multiple places. Did it cost the Niners the game? Absolutely not. NOR did ANY single call last season in the NFCCG. Not a single solitary one. NO call was made with the game on the line, not a single one. The Niners had multiple opportunities, and chances to rise above that one call, and do something, fact is, they didn't.

Hard lesson to learn ( one Seattle already has had lots of practice at) but the truth is, quality, SB teams FIND a way to rise above it and win. The Niners haven't found that way yet, so they lose, isn't rocket science. Christ, you wonder why Niners are called "whiners" across the nation? This is it. You can't handle a blown call without blaming EVERYTHING on said blown call. We aren't talking about a series of them, we are talking about ONE in the THIRD quarter for the love of god ( a quarter your offense garnered SIX yards of total offense).

[kalibane]

That your girlfriend is as misinformed about football as you is not exactly surprising. Hey I get it, it was a bad call in a game you had to win and you ended up losing. It's much easier to blame the bad call than accept the loss. Most of us do it from time to time.

But this call did not massively affect the rest of the game. What massively affected the rest of the game was the 49ers inability to score any points. Yes it made a comeback more unlikely... but it had no effect on how the 49ers had to game plan. There was plenty of time for two scoring drives. This was not Vinny Testeverde's helmet phantom TD, It was not Jerry Rice's "non fumble" against Green Bay in the playoffs. This bad call did not swing the game.

You have to score points to win. The play that changed how the 49ers had to call plays was getting stopped on 4th and 1. Once that happened the 49ers had to either score a TD or get a FG and the ball back, which would have been true no matter if it was a 6 point or 10 point lead.

No one is showing a lack of class here... You weren't jobbed. You lost. Sure there was definitely potential for it to massively effect the game but all that became moot when SF failed to score a point. And in the NFC championship game any call you can come up with is negated by Kaepernick getting away with booting his fumble without which would have been recovered by Seattle removing 7 points from SF's total.

[burrrton]

And even my GF understands that it dramatically wffected the rest of the game.

My dog was barking up a storm about it, too, so even *he* agrees.

[edit]

Missed this:

Something is wrong if our GM doesn't get upset with some horrendous calls.

No, something's wrong when your GM isn't bright enough to recognize questionable calls happen and not act like a petulant 3-year-old over them.

[NorthHawk]

Nobody really knows how a penalty that allowed a team an extra chance to score a TD (which they did) affected the rest of the game.
There are variables that can't be measured such as momentum, hope, and excitement after stopping another team - or at least holding them to a FG.
As well, how much lift to the team scoring a TD can't be measured.
How much of the variables affect each team is the unknown.

What is known is we got the benefit of a penalty, capitalized on it, and went on to win.
Was our Defense invigorated by that series of events? Probably. How much? Who knows.
Would only a FG have had the same effect? Would it have had a slightly negative effect considering they could have had a TD?

We can all guess at how the variables would change the outcome, but it can't be measured to come to a solid conclusion.

[mykc14]

Nobody really knows how a penalty that allowed a team an extra chance to score a TD (which they did) affected the rest of the game.
There are variables that can't be measured such as momentum, hope, and excitement after stopping another team - or at least holding them to a FG.
As well, how much lift to the team scoring a TD can't be measured.
How much of the variables affect each team is the unknown.

What is known is we got the benefit of a penalty, capitalized on it, and went on to win.
Was our Defense invigorated by that series of events? Probably. How much? Who knows.
Would only a FG have had the same effect? Would it have had a slightly negative effect considering they could have had a TD?

We can all guess at how the variables would change the outcome, but it can't be measured to come to a solid conclusion.

With this line of thinking any missed or incorrect penalty can have this same unknown effect on the game. All we know is that the niners could not move the ball in the second half. They had plenty of time to overcome the *bad* call and couldn't even come close. With the amount of time left it did not cause them to have alter their gameplan at all. It's not like they only had 5 minutes left and had to now throw the ball. They had 13 minutes and it was *just* a 2 possession game. We had the same issue in KC, but with less time and a closer game, and that call had much more of an impact on the game but I wouldn't go so far as to say it changed the outcome as we still had another chance to go down and score. We didn't capitalize so the bad call sucks but I wouldn't go so far as to say it changed the outcome.

[NorthHawk]

With this line of thinking any missed or incorrect penalty can have this same unknown effect on the game. All we know is that the niners could not move the ball in the second half. They had plenty of time to overcome the *bad* call and couldn't even come close.

That's correct unless it happens at or near the end of the game.
What we don't know in this game is if holding us to a FG would have given them some momentum. We have no idea what would have happened if the FG attempt was blocked.
That's one of the variables that we can't know, but can only guess.

It was an important call. Whether it would change the win to a loss is difficult to imagine considering how the Defense was playing, but we can never know for sure.

[kalibane]

The concept of momentum has time and time again been illustrated to be a myth as it relates to sports. We can safely assume that no "momentum" was gained or lost. As a matter of fact SF had their best drive of the half (2nd best in the game) immediately following the Seahawks scoring this TD.

If momentum were a thing their performance should not have improved following such a negative result.

[THX-1138]

Futurite

Give me one...just one...way in which that "blown call" affected the Niners chances of winning.

Just one.

I can absolutely guarantee you that anyone here can rebut anything you have to offer up and would be found correct by an objective third party. With or without the penalty your team failed to score enough points, so you lose by 4 instead of 10. Unless your team got screwed on a scoring call your point is absolutely, 100%, stone cold and indisputably moot. One single solitary TD is not enough to get it done against the Hawks. End of discussion. Close the book. Bye, Felicia.

*upon edit*

There has been some discussion of this call being a "momentum changer". I submit that if your team of 50+ players and their corresponding coaching staff is so easily swayed by an intangible such as "momentum" then your team is not of championship caliber and is perhaps out of their depth to begin with. Championship teams overcome adversity. Losing teams succumb to it.

[c_hawkbob]

The Niners would have had to have quit trying after that call for it to have effected the outcome of the game any more significantly than a 4 point difference in final score. That's clearly not what happened, they were going for it with all they had till the very last 4th and 1.

[NorthHawk]

The concept of momentum has time and time again been illustrated to be a myth as it relates to sports. We can safely assume that no "momentum" was gained or lost. As a matter of fact SF had their best drive of the half (2nd best in the game) immediately following the Seahawks scoring this TD.

If momentum were a thing their performance should not have improved following such a negative result.

But you are presupposing the chain of events would be exactly the same.
Obviously they wouldn't be. Like I said above, a FG attempt could have been blocked. How might that have changed things? What if the blocked FG was run back for a TD?
We don't know how the rest of the game would have unfolded had that call not been made.

[c_hawkbob]

The concept of momentum has time and time again been illustrated to be a myth as it relates to sports. We can safely assume that no "momentum" was gained or lost. As a matter of fact SF had their best drive of the half (2nd best in the game) immediately following the Seahawks scoring this TD.

If momentum were a thing their performance should not have improved following such a negative result.

I call BS, I totally believe in momentum as it relates to a sporting event. they may have time and time again attributed the phenomenon to other factors but IMO it's no myth. I've experienced it for myself.

[HumanCockroach]

To me the whole "the game would have been entirely different" concept is an exercise in futility. No one knows what would have happened, for all anyone knows that call could have changee the game drastically in Seattles favor. There is simply no way to postulate that something like that call negatively ( or positively) effects the outcome. No way to do it. For all anyone knows, Seattle kicks the FG and SF fumbles the kickoff which is returned for a TD, and then fumbles the next, throws a pick six implodes and loses 64-7. It's ALL hypotheticals. What we DO know is how the Niners offense was performing and continued to perform afterwards. We DO know that there was plenty of time, to adjust and still win the game. There is zero way to know if Seattle runs it's offense the same way they did in the last quarter when milking the clock, nor do we know how successful it might have been ( that's the funny thing here, there seems to be this assumption that SF all of a udden performs better than they did, while Seattle stays the same, or even worse than they had performed up to that point for some reason).

Sure there is a possibility that the kick is blocked, there is also the possibility, that the Seahawks score a TD on a botched FG, should I assume that happens? Of course not. SF was outplayed in every area of the game, period. Why it is hard to acknowledge the BETTER team won the game, I haven't a clue.

[burrrton]

But you are presupposing the chain of events would be exactly the same.
Obviously they wouldn't be.

If a butterfly flaps its wings on the east coast, you also can't say the storms in CA would be the same intensity.

Sorry, but if a team shows an almost *complete* inability to do *anything* offensively, there is no argument they'd have been Supar Newly Empowared™ had they only been down 6 and not 10.

[RiverDog]

Nobody really knows how a penalty that allowed a team an extra chance to score a TD (which they did) affected the rest of the game.
There are variables that can't be measured such as momentum, hope, and excitement after stopping another team - or at least holding them to a FG.
As well, how much lift to the team scoring a TD can't be measured.
How much of the variables affect each team is the unknown.

What is known is we got the benefit of a penalty, capitalized on it, and went on to win.
Was our Defense invigorated by that series of events? Probably. How much? Who knows.
Would only a FG have had the same effect? Would it have had a slightly negative effect considering they could have had a TD?

We can all guess at how the variables would change the outcome, but it can't be measured to come to a solid conclusion.

I can't see how the defense allowing your team to fall from 3 down to 6 is going to be a huge spiritual lift that would reinvigorate the offense. If it involved a turnover, then yes, that would be a big momentum swing, but simply forcing a FG that resulted in putting you even further behind and making your task more difficult? Sorry, but I can't imagine it.