Wilson sets new standard

[kalibane]

What are you talking about HC? Golden Tate is no better than Kyle Williams.

People ( the less insightful ones at least) only pay attention to two stats, passing yardage and TD's

Fixed that.

[Futureite]

All I am doing is applying the same criteria everyone else is. I noticed the 109 QB rating is used to laud Wilson and not one person explaind how Alex put up 108. Not ONE. You can't have it both ways.

So, again, you all are using the benchmark of "greatness", not me. Your QB is also recerencing it in every other interview. And this time I will link up anyone that debates that. Some of you are trying to paint the picture that I am enamoured with stats or fixated with them simply because it supports my position. But ALL great QB DID put up stats. So either quit using that benchmark or quit getting offended when people point out your guy hasn't done it.

Montana, Brady, Elway, Favre, Manning - the list is endless. They were/are ALL near the top of the league in passing yds, tds etc at some point or for extended stretches in their careers. So you guys can sit here and tell me that I'm into fantasy football stats, or ESPN highlights, but I am relying on facts. The facts are, those guys and many others have proven that they can play at a high level as the focal point of the entire team, and Russell Wilson hasn't. We already saw him struggle early in the yr when asked to do that. And now his rating increased when the Seahawks returned to a run oriented O. It's not coincidence.

The facts are, to be great you have to prove that you can do what those guys did. And this is why Russell Wilson is not "great" yet and was not a probowler this yr. It is why my analogies and ranking of him around #10 is far more accurate for what he does and who he is as a player. I am actually objectively analyzing his role on your team and NOT simply relying on stats, as some of you do when citing his QB rating.

[burrrton]

I noticed the 109 QB rating is used to laud Wilson and not one person explaind how Alex put up 108. Not ONE. You can't have it both ways.

Translation (again): "BUT I KNOW A MEDIOCRE QB WHO HAS A GOOD NUMBER ON X!"

Future, you're dense as pound cake if you think you're fooling anyone with your bullsht.

Nobody is leaning on a single great game as evidence of RWs skill- we're merely piling that game on THE REST OF HIS GDDMN CAREER.

Get lost.

I am actually objectively analyzing his role on your team and NOT simply relying on stats, as some of you do when citing his QB rating.

LOL. I'm just going to quote this and leave it here in case you realize how stupid you sound and try to edit it away.

[monkey]

Captain Eye Test is epic fail yet again. Now he's moved the goal posts to "pro bowls", apparently PRO BOWLS are what makes greatness now.

[RiverDog]

All I am doing is applying the same criteria everyone else is.

Here's some of my criteria. Let's see if you can find someone to match it:

In his first three seasons, his regular season record is 36-12. His playoff record is currently 5-1. He's won one Lombardi. He's 2-0 vs. Peyton Manning, 2-0 vs. Aaron Rodgers, 2-0 vs. Drew Brees, 1-0 vs. Tom Brady.

Can you find anyone that can match any of that criteria?

[burrrton]

RD, throw in career passer rating, playoff career passer rating, stats from within the pocket/outside the pocket/under pressure/on deep passes/on short passes, and on and on and on.

Future knows he's full of sht, though- he's just talked himself into a corner so goes running to EYE TESTS! and "I'M BEING OBJECTIVE BUT UR LOOKING AT STATS!".

[Futureite]

RD;

Well I never said he's mediocore or a game manager as a couple people just implied. He's obviously a good QB and he makes plays.

My response is whether you can name any QB that began his career with the #1 run D and top 3 run game 3 straight yrs? I mean, we could go round in circles on this, but I think history proves that a QBs QB rating exponentially increases with both factors. And those teams obviously win a lot of games. If I am not mistaken, even a terrible QB like Tim Tebow posted an 82 QB rating and won a playoff game with an outstanding D. What do you honestly believe his QB rating and team's W/L % would be without said factors? Maybe low 60's?

Ben Roethlisberger went what, 15-1 his rookie yr behind great D and run game? Not sure what his QB rating was each season, but I would not categorize him as "great", would you?

Alex Smith had a run of something like 31-11 and a QB rating in the mid 90's behind great D and run game. Would you say he is great?

I just don't see you guys ever acknowledging this. Lol, I mean never. Even prior (or after?) the KC game, RW's QB rating had dipped below 90, his yds per attempt was below 7 and his completion % on balls beyond 20 yds was way down. Why? This was just prior to Carroll returning to a run centric O. So I think there is already some data that suggests he could not mauntain the 98 career QB rating he now owns, and without a doubt he'd not have that career w/L record.

I mean, some of this is grey but a lot of it isn't. And there is plenty of history to compare different players.

[Futureite]

Ben Roethlisberger -

2004, 15-1 record 98 QB rating, loss in AFC Champ gane.
2005 - 11-5 record 98 QB rating, SB champ

There you go. Great D + Great run game = Great QB rating and whole lot of wins. You guys act like Russell Wilsin is the onky QB to thrive in that environment, and he could be Montana, Marino, Luck etc over a full yr "if he had to". It's riduculous and a conplete 180 from what you guys were posting mid yr.

I mean I respect the hell out of Big Ben. Prob a top 5 QB now but not an alltime great. Not in my book at least.

[Anthony]

All I am doing is applying the same criteria everyone else is. I noticed the 109 QB rating is used to laud Wilson and not one person explaind how Alex put up 108. Not ONE. You can't have it both ways.

So, again, you all are using the benchmark of "greatness", not me. Your QB is also recerencing it in every other interview. And this time I will link up anyone that debates that. Some of you are trying to paint the picture that I am enamoured with stats or fixated with them simply because it supports my position. But ALL great QB DID put up stats. So either quit using that benchmark or quit getting offended when people point out your guy hasn't done it.

Montana, Brady, Elway, Favre, Manning - the list is endless. They were/are ALL near the top of the league in passing yds, tds etc at some point or for extended stretches in their careers. So you guys can sit here and tell me that I'm into fantasy football stats, or ESPN highlights, but I am relying on facts. The facts are, those guys and many others have proven that they can play at a high level as the focal point of the entire team, and Russell Wilson hasn't. We already saw him struggle early in the yr when asked to do that. And now his rating increased when the Seahawks returned to a run oriented O. It's not coincidence.

The facts are, to be great you have to prove that you can do what those guys did. And this is why Russell Wilson is not "great" yet and was not a probowler this yr. It is why my analogies and ranking of him around #10 is far more accurate for what he does and who he is as a player. I am actually objectively analyzing his role on your team and NOT simply relying on stats, as some of you do when citing his QB rating.

And you still have yet to talk your way out of the over whelming amount of facts and stats we have provided to support what we say, instead you focus in on one and find some lame way to explain it away by taking it out of context. Your a moron, and a liar as despite saying you would leave you are still here liar.

[Anthony]

RD;

Well I never said he's mediocore or a game manager as a couple people just implied. He's obviously a good QB and he makes plays.

My response is whether you can name any QB that began his career with the #1 run D and top 3 run game 3 straight yrs? I mean, we could go round in circles on this, but I think history proves that a QBs QB rating exponentially increases with both factors. And those teams obviously win a lot of games. If I am not mistaken, even a terrible QB like Tim Tebow posted an 82 QB rating and won a playoff game with an outstanding D. What do you honestly believe his QB rating and team's W/L % would be without said factors? Maybe low 60's?

Ben Roethlisberger went what, 15-1 his rookie yr behind great D and run game? Not sure what his QB rating was each season, but I would not categorize him as "great", would you?

Alex Smith had a run of something like 31-11 and a QB rating in the mid 90's behind great D and run game. Would you say he is great?

I just don't see you guys ever acknowledging this. Lol, I mean never. Even prior (or after?) the KC game, RW's QB rating had dipped below 90, his yds per attempt was below 7 and his completion % on balls beyond 20 yds was way down. Why? This was just prior to Carroll returning to a run centric O. So I think there is already some data that suggests he could not mauntain the 98 career QB rating he now owns, and without a doubt he'd not have that career w/L record.

I mean, some of this is grey but a lot of it isn't. And there is plenty of history to compare different players.

no but you have lied, made up things, and more to prove a point that cannot be proven because it is wrong. your a liar period.

[Anthony]

Ben Roethlisberger -

2004, 15-1 record 98 QB rating, loss in AFC Champ gane.
2005 - 11-5 record 98 QB rating, SB champ

There you go. Great D + Great run game = Great QB rating and whole lot of wins. You guys act like Russell Wilsin is the onky QB to thrive in that environment, and he could be Montana, Marino, Luck etc over a full yr "if he had to". It's riduculous and a conplete 180 from what you guys were posting mid yr.

I mean I respect the hell out of Big Ben. Prob a top 5 QB now but not an alltime great. Not in my book at least.

your book is worthless, Big Ben will probably be in the HOF enough said. Now you are changing your tune to all time great , you pathetic and a liar and still have not found anyone with all the stats, records and awards as Wilson so you are still wrong.

[HumanCockroach]

Ben Roethlisberger -

2004, 15-1 record 98 QB rating, loss in AFC Champ gane.
2005 - 11-5 record 98 QB rating, SB champ

There you go. Great D + Great run game = Great QB rating and whole lot of wins. You guys act like Russell Wilsin is the onky QB to thrive in that environment, and he could be Montana, Marino, Luck etc over a full yr "if he had to". It's riduculous and a conplete 180 from what you guys were posting mid yr.

I mean I respect the hell out of Big Ben. Prob a top 5 QB now but not an alltime great. Not in my book at least.

Anyone can do this, if they so choose to cherry pick years Future, need I remind you of what Montana and Young made their heydays with? Are we simply going to ignore everything else Wilson does and has done to this point because he had a good running game and defense? If that is the route you so desperately want to take, then so be it, we can eliminate 80% of the HOF QB'S( QB'S I might add that never accomplished what Wilson has in their first 4 years in the league) from the equation of "great" quarterbacks.

You can't have it "both ways" you want to eliminate Montana,Elway, Young, Aikmen etc, be my guest, as none of those listed performed to the levels Wilson has to date, early in their careers. Shall we also remove Brady as well ( as he wasn't winning SB's on that arm big guy) I can literally go down the list and elimintate almost EVERY all time "great" QB based on YOUR criteria if I so chose. I don't do that ( because it's STUPID) but we certainly can if you want us too.

[Futureite]

Anthony;

Does Ben crack the top 10 alltime? Top 15? Like I said, I respect Ben and am actually a big fan of his. I can easily put 10 QBs ahead of him and probably 15.

You didn't address a single point I made. You are the token angry guy that like post "liar" at least twice in every response.

I'd take Derrick Carr right now over Russell Wilson if you gave me a choice. Russell Wilsin's legs account for at minumum 50-60% of everything he does with his arm and you know it. He rarely, if evet stands in the pocket. The only time he does stand in the pocket is when he has a quick hot read or he's blitzed.

Derrick Carr is going to have a looooong career throwing the way he does and he's going to be better than Russell Wilson in just a yr or two. Just like I told you Luck would leapfrog RW due to his higher learning curve, same holds true with Carr.

[RiverDog]

Ben Roethlisberger -

2004, 15-1 record 98 QB rating, loss in AFC Champ gane.
2005 - 11-5 record 98 QB rating, SB champ

There you go. Great D + Great run game = Great QB rating and whole lot of wins. You guys act like Russell Wilsin is the onky QB to thrive in that environment, and he could be Montana, Marino, Luck etc over a full yr "if he had to". It's riduculous and a conplete 180 from what you guys were posting mid yr.

I mean I respect the hell out of Big Ben. Prob a top 5 QB now but not an alltime great. Not in my book at least.

No, that's two years, not three. Factor in Worthlessburger's 2006 record and get back to me.

Plus you overlooked his record against All Pro/HOF QB's.

You can have two different takes about your argument about Russell's benefitting from a great D and solid running game. It could be just as you are suggesting, that his numbers are positively affected by those two factors and he would not survive as the centerpiece of the team in the way a Rodgers or Brady is. But it could be the exact opposite as well. If he did not have those factors on his side, it could force him to throw the ball more, and thus have better stats.

[monkey]

Meh. Who cares what Captain Eye Test, a HUGELY biased 49er fan thinks about the greatest QB to wear a Seahawks uniform ever?
I suggest we start following the following good advice.

[Futureite]

River;

Well, the first point that I'd like to make is that I do believe the numbers irrefutably prove a QB's rating is positively effected as his run game and D ratings increase. I think that is pretty much established fact, and I do not mean that in a sarcastic tone.

Second, yes, his numbers could survive and flourish without those factors. I agree. But they couldn't without him learning how to play a style that would be conducive to that happening. You cannot rush for 900 yds and still be a great pocket passer. That indicates that as a QB, you have trained yourself to react to pressure in the opposite manner a pocket passer would. You are not hanging in and delivering the ball or going through multiple progressions. You are fleeing the pocket. I hear Steve Young discuss these unique struggles that athletic QBs face each week in his radio interviews. He points out that importance of timing and route progressions He talks about the struggles he faced in learning to play from the pocket, and how Bill Walsh proved to him that as soon as he moved out of the pocket, the timing of the entire O was out of whack. In reference to that topic, Steve stated "Bill told me 'its great you ran for 25 yds or made a big play. But as soon as you leave the pocket, nobody knows where you are Steve".

I mean, my "eye test" saw a lot of plays where Wilson just decided he was going to break the pocket with minimal or almost no pressure. Sure, he made a huge splash throw early in the game by doing it. But is that sustainable drive after drive, game after game, on an team where he'd have to move the chains consistently and run the entire show? On a team with say, the #18 D and #16 run game? I don't believe it is. It's a style that works extremely well with this particular team.

So no, I do not believe that the way Russell Wilson plays right now is not a sustainable manner to carry an O over an entire system ala Brees or the QBs he is often compared to. Those guys sit in the pocket. They go through professions. They take big hits as they deliver the ball on time. Everyone gets mad about my "eye test", but doesn't Russell Wilson's rush yds and attempts and his % of big plays out of the pocket prove what I am saying? Everyone knows what he is doing and where his production is generated, everyone sees how he plays. It's like saying "you use the eye test to tell me the sky is blue. I don't trust your eyes. Prove it with science!" I mean, it's ridiculous.

Yes, I believe he could be that great pocket QB ala Montana. Who knows. We'd have to see. He certainly has the brains and the accuracy. But he could not become that without skipping all the steps all great QBs had to take to get there. And there's really no basis to assume any person in any field could be "great" at anything without prolonged exposure to the endeavor or at least a couple years of data to prove it.

[Futureite]

Meh. Who cares what Captain Eye Test, a HUGELY biased 49er fan thinks about the greatest QB to wear a Seahawks uniform ever?
I suggest we start following the following good advice.

Hahahaha. I am probably the least biased person here. If you took a national poll, the mean would trend far closer to my #10 ranking than the "Setting the standard" premise posited by this thread. Or any other ranking of him that would fly here. Say, #4, #5 or #7. The overwhelming majority opinion would be much closer to my ultra biased opinion than yours. And you know it, Anthony knows it. That's why you guys throw fits. Because you want to be right and others are not agreeable to your opinion.

Like I said: If you cannot handle the scrutiny that comes with proclaiming, mentioning or otherwise constantly referencing "greatness", why even bring it up? You and your QB have asked for it. At least he handles it with some level of maturity.

[monkey]

I realize that Captain Eye Test won't actually read this link, which does a very good job of proving that the reality is, Russell Wilson is VERY close to being as great as Aaron Rodgers, but I'll post it for those with an actual open mind, those who may still be on the fence, and are into thinking past their own biases.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/106450764/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-nfc-championship

[burrrton]

Derrick Carr is going to have a looooong career throwing the way he does and he's going to be better than Russell Wilson in just a yr or two.

"You know who else? That Geno Smith kid- he's going to BLOW AWAY Russell's numbers in just 2-4 years. You watch, assholes." -Captain Eye Test

*Then C.E.T. drops to his knees to pray this post is memory-holed before Geno drops out of the league*

I am probably the least biased person here.

You *admitted* you were biased against RW previously, dipsht.

The rest of us are looking at numbers and performance, you're going on eye tests.

Everyone gets mad about my "eye test"

No, we mock and ridicule you for it, because you not only rely on it*, but you somehow missed freshman philosophy and think it's "objective".

STFU and get lost.

*Not fair- you don't just rely on that- you also have Confirmation Bias so bad it must give you headaches. You ignore whatever performances don't suit your arguments, and get a hard-on whenever a game or stretch of games happens to help you.

[Futureite]

Yah that's another losing argument. Cussing and ranting, blah blah blah.

I noticed neither you nor anyone else addressed Alex Smith. Guess what you're going to do to knock his numbers down, since they are nearly identical in the playoffs and this year to Russell Wilson's?

That's right. You're going to use the eye test. That's why none of you have rebutted it. Because you know that's the only way you could possibly separate the two in the categories cited in this thread, and you'd completely contradict yourself if you applied it now.

Quit being a clown. You can never rely completely on numbers OR analogies to analyze anything, especially in science. Everything in life is a mix of hardline, absolute data and practical application of it. Quit denying this and acting as if you're schooling me in doing so.

Russell Wilson is obviously better than Alex Smith. They both obviously greatly benefit from the teams they have played on. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive to be true.

[burrrton]

I noticed neither you nor anyone else addressed Alex Smith.

Yes, I did, Capt. Eye Test. Want to show everyone you can read English and go back and see where/when/how?

That's why none of you have rebutted it.

LOL. You're trying hard, but you're a bad troll.

Quit being a clown.

I'll give it a shot. But while you're still hanging around, tell us more about clowns, Mr. EyeTestsAreObjective.

[RiverDog]

I mean, my "eye test" saw a lot of plays where Wilson just decided he was going to break the pocket with minimal or almost no pressure. Sure, he made a huge splash throw early in the game by doing it. But is that sustainable drive after drive, game after game, on an team where he'd have to move the chains consistently and run the entire show? On a team with say, the #18 D and #16 run game? I don't believe it is. It's a style that works extremely well with this particular team.

A lot of plays? I say horsepucky!

In all honesty, I cannot recall having seen Russell break the pocket with minimal or no pressure unless he sees he can at least make a first down. There's scores of analysts and commentators that mention how he's always keeping his eyes downfield while he's scrambling. That's what makes him so dangerous, and why teams find it so difficult to defend him, because he's always looking downfield for an opportunity. He's made scores of plays this season alone by doing just that, including against your Niners. It's the one attribute that sets him apart from other scrambling quarterbacks. There is no panic in this guy.

[HumanCockroach]

I noticed neither you nor anyone else addressed Alex Smith

Bullsh*t. I addressed it, and with MORE information than the claim deserved.( which still wasn't much)

Of course you once again conveniently skipped that ( as is your MO) but it was answered, with more thought than is necessary for anyone comparing a QB that hasn't had enough pass attempts to even make a postseason list, has a losing record in the post season, can't throw the ball down the field, or outside the hash marks, and someone who has played in a total of 3 whole playoff games in a decade....

Pretty much, they are NOT comparable, but hey, statements like that make it clear what and who you are, so feel free to continue to reinforce your bias, ignorance and stupidity all you want.

( and you can SKIP attempting to relay the "meaning" of this thread, I posted the damn thing, and your insistance that it means or was meant as something it wasn't, isn't anything other than a bald faced lie. WTF is new though? )

[monkey]

I noticed neither you nor anyone else addressed Alex Smith.

What's to address? Wilson is light years ahead, it's not even worthy of discussion.
Go away troll.

[mykc14]

Meh. Who cares what Captain Eye Test, a HUGELY biased 49er fan thinks about the greatest QB to wear a Seahawks uniform ever?
I suggest we start following the following good advice.

I agree, especially when we are about to play in the NFC Championship game and his team is a mess. The reality is he is doing anything he can to try and distract us (and himself, probably) from the game this weekend. We are on top and he is trying to keep us from enjoying everything surrounding our HOME CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. I see a sad man who realizes how close his team got to winning the Championship and now has watched it all crumble before him. His only recourse is trying to make us miserable as well. I just read his posts and give a sympathetic chuckle. At this point his posts are so pathetic they are hard to even read, really.

[monkey]

I agree, especially when we are about to play in the NFC Championship game and his team is a mess. The reality is he is doing anything he can to try and distract us (and himself, probably) from the game this weekend. We are on top and he is trying to keep us from enjoying everything surrounding our HOME CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. I see a sad man who realizes how close his team got to winning the Championship and now has watched it all crumble before him. His only recourse is trying to make us miserable as well. I just read his posts and give a sympathetic chuckle. At this point his posts are so pathetic they are hard to even read, really.

Good post!

[Anthony]

RD;

Well I never said he's mediocore or a game manager as a couple people just implied. He's obviously a good QB and he makes plays.

My response is whether you can name any QB that began his career with the #1 run D and top 3 run game 3 straight yrs? I mean, we could go round in circles on this, but I think history proves that a QBs QB rating exponentially increases with both factors. And those teams obviously win a lot of games. If I am not mistaken, even a terrible QB like Tim Tebow posted an 82 QB rating and won a playoff game with an outstanding D. What do you honestly believe his QB rating and team's W/L % would be without said factors? Maybe low 60's?

Ben Roethlisberger went what, 15-1 his rookie yr behind great D and run game? Not sure what his QB rating was each season, but I would not categorize him as "great", would you?

Alex Smith had a run of something like 31-11 and a QB rating in the mid 90's behind great D and run game. Would you say he is great?

I just don't see you guys ever acknowledging this. Lol, I mean never. Even prior (or after?) the KC game, RW's QB rating had dipped below 90, his yds per attempt was below 7 and his completion % on balls beyond 20 yds was way down. Why? This was just prior to Carroll returning to a run centric O. So I think there is already some data that suggests he could not mauntain the 98 career QB rating he now owns, and without a doubt he'd not have that career w/L record.

I mean, some of this is grey but a lot of it isn't. And there is plenty of history to compare different players.

Hmm lets see 3 straight years with a #1 D so that is a lie as in 2012 our D was ranked 4th, so you lied right there. We were not a top 3 rushing offense in 2013 either we were 4 so another lie. Seems you are doing your usual lying again. As to the rest of your post you said noting, you can prove nothing, its all lies. Emanwhile you stil have not addressed the overwhelming amount of facts, and stats showing your wrong, all you do is lie.

[Anthony]

Anthony;

Does Ben crack the top 10 alltime? Top 15? Like I said, I respect Ben and am actually a big fan of his. I can easily put 10 QBs ahead of him and probably 15.

You didn't address a single point I made. You are the token angry guy that like post "liar" at least twice in every response.

I'd take Derrick Carr right now over Russell Wilson if you gave me a choice. Russell Wilsin's legs account for at minumum 50-60% of everything he does with his arm and you know it. He rarely, if evet stands in the pocket. The only time he does stand in the pocket is when he has a quick hot read or he's blitzed.

Derrick Carr is going to have a looooong career throwing the way he does and he's going to be better than Russell Wilson in just a yr or two. Just like I told you Luck would leapfrog RW due to his higher learning curve, same holds true with Carr.

Dude again nothing you said means anything, Ben will probably be in the HOF that is all that he needs to do, and unless you can prove he will not you again have nothing.

[Anthony]

No, that's two years, not three. Factor in Worthlessburger's 2006 record and get back to me.

Plus you overlooked his record against All Pro/HOF QB's.

You can have two different takes about your argument about Russell's benefitting from a great D and solid running game. It could be just as you are suggesting, that his numbers are positively affected by those two factors and he would not survive as the centerpiece of the team in the way a Rodgers or Brady is. But it could be the exact opposite as well. If he did not have those factors on his side, it could force him to throw the ball more, and thus have better stats.

Not to mention the affect Wilsons game has had on our run game and Defense. in 2011 our defense was 21st and our run game was 21st. starting in 2012, when we got Wilson both those ranking went up big, and some of that is because of Wilson and what he brings to the table.

[Anthony]

River;

Well, the first point that I'd like to make is that I do believe the numbers irrefutably prove a QB's rating is positively effected as his run game and D ratings increase. I think that is pretty much established fact, and I do not mean that in a sarcastic tone.

Second, yes, his numbers could survive and flourish without those factors. I agree. But they couldn't without him learning how to play a style that would be conducive to that happening. You cannot rush for 900 yds and still be a great pocket passer. That indicates that as a QB, you have trained yourself to react to pressure in the opposite manner a pocket passer would. You are not hanging in and delivering the ball or going through multiple progressions. You are fleeing the pocket. I hear Steve Young discuss these unique struggles that athletic QBs face each week in his radio interviews. He points out that importance of timing and route progressions He talks about the struggles he faced in learning to play from the pocket, and how Bill Walsh proved to him that as soon as he moved out of the pocket, the timing of the entire O was out of whack. In reference to that topic, Steve stated "Bill told me 'its great you ran for 25 yds or made a big play. But as soon as you leave the pocket, nobody knows where you are Steve".

I mean, my "eye test" saw a lot of plays where Wilson just decided he was going to break the pocket with minimal or almost no pressure. Sure, he made a huge splash throw early in the game by doing it. But is that sustainable drive after drive, game after game, on an team where he'd have to move the chains consistently and run the entire show? On a team with say, the #18 D and #16 run game? I don't believe it is. It's a style that works extremely well with this particular team.

So no, I do not believe that the way Russell Wilson plays right now is not a sustainable manner to carry an O over an entire system ala Brees or the QBs he is often compared to. Those guys sit in the pocket. They go through professions. They take big hits as they deliver the ball on time. Everyone gets mad about my "eye test", but doesn't Russell Wilson's rush yds and attempts and his % of big plays out of the pocket prove what I am saying? Everyone knows what he is doing and where his production is generated, everyone sees how he plays. It's like saying "you use the eye test to tell me the sky is blue. I don't trust your eyes. Prove it with science!" I mean, it's ridiculous.

Yes, I believe he could be that great pocket QB ala Montana. Who knows. We'd have to see. He certainly has the brains and the accuracy. But he could not become that without skipping all the steps all great QBs had to take to get there. And there's really no basis to assume any person in any field could be "great" at anything without prolonged exposure to the endeavor or at least a couple years of data to prove it.

No one cares what you believe as you have been proven to be a liar.

[Anthony]

Hahahaha. I am probably the least biased person here. If you took a national poll, the mean would trend far closer to my #10 ranking than the "Setting the standard" premise posited by this thread. Or any other ranking of him that would fly here. Say, #4, #5 or #7. The overwhelming majority opinion would be much closer to my ultra biased opinion than yours. And you know it, Anthony knows it. That's why you guys throw fits. Because you want to be right and others are not agreeable to your opinion.

Like I said: If you cannot handle the scrutiny that comes with proclaiming, mentioning or otherwise constantly referencing "greatness", why even bring it up? You and your QB have asked for it. At least he handles it with some level of maturity.

Dude do not flatter yourself not only are you biased but your a liar who is not man enough to keep his word. If you cannot be a man then leave this forum we do not accept whiny , lying little vermon like you here.

[Anthony]

Yah that's another losing argument. Cussing and ranting, blah blah blah.

I noticed neither you nor anyone else addressed Alex Smith. Guess what you're going to do to knock his numbers down, since they are nearly identical in the playoffs and this year to Russell Wilson's?

That's right. You're going to use the eye test. That's why none of you have rebutted it. Because you know that's the only way you could possibly separate the two in the categories cited in this thread, and you'd completely contradict yourself if you applied it now.

Quit being a clown. You can never rely completely on numbers OR analogies to analyze anything, especially in science. Everything in life is a mix of hardline, absolute data and practical application of it. Quit denying this and acting as if you're schooling me in doing so.

Russell Wilson is obviously better than Alex Smith. They both obviously greatly benefit from the teams they have played on. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive to be true.

dude y9ou lost when you were caught making stuff up, then lying, then changing facts, and then not keeping your word, and now lying again. Now you are trying to hide behind your "eye test" which is biased as you admitted to and now lied about, and want us to forget stats because they do not tell the whole story but yet when you lies about stats, and made them up we were suppose to believe them,. You are a lying hypocrite and completely wrong.

[obiken]

Its scary to think with Russell, IF he had a great WR to go with him. What would he do with Rob Gronkowski, Dez Bryant, or Larry Fitzgerald.

[burrrton]

He'd miss them all the time. Because eye test. Also objective.

[RiverDog]

Not to mention the affect Wilsons game has had on our run game and Defense. in 2011 our defense was 21st and our run game was 21st. starting in 2012, when we got Wilson both those ranking went up big, and some of that is because of Wilson and what he brings to the table.

Good points.

And I'll add that we went from 7-9 and missing the playoffs to 11-5, a record that was skewed as early in the season they hadn't yet taken off the training wheels to fully utilize his talents until about mid season, and winning a wild card road playoff game before barely losing in the divisional round. We didn't have a winning record for 4 years before Russell arrived. We went from a .500ish team to a legitimate Super Bowl contender in the year in the season Russell arrived. The play at quarterback was by far the biggest difference in the 2011 and 2012 Seahawks.

That's my 'eye test.' How did he help the team?

[kalibane]

Remember when the argument was Wilson was an average QB who wasn't better than Kaepernick? How he proudly used to throw around Jaws stating that Kaep could be the best ever?

Now he's reduced to arguing the merits of Russell Wilson vs. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning... how Wilson is only top 10. And he can't even mention Kaep because it's so embarrassing how wrong he was.

It's rough on old Future these days. Let him throw his little tantrum, if for nothing else to honor his former coach one last time. No reason for us to waste energy on him though... sooner or later he'll wear himself out and accept the reality of the situation the same as the toddler he's behaving like.

[monkey]

He'd miss them all the time. Because eye test. Also objective.

LOL!

[Futureite]

Per Ed Werder Tweet;

"Russell Wilson says he tries he tries to combine the smarts of Peyton Manning, the throws of Aaron Rodgers . .".

Please google the Tweet, cannot even remember it all. Tom Brady is mentioned.

Now I already know the response: "Well everyone tries to do that, he just strives for it. He isn't saying he DOES it". It's chalk full of everything but humility any way you slice it.

Please. The guy has opened his game up to all kinds of scrutiny by talking like this, talking about being the greatest QB ever, etc. LOL and you guys are STILL claiming he didn't make the ROTY comment. As if that is such a stretch after absurd comments like this.

Dude is a really good QB and I actually like watching him play. But for F's sake nobody has room left to get as ticked as some of you do when other people disagree with the subhuman characteristics he is promoting. Bis ego is bigger than this planet right now.

[burrrton]

Bis ego is bigger than this planet right now.

Yes, nothing says "Russell Wilson" like an out of control ego.

And nothing makes that more clear than the old Eye Test™, eh Captain Eye Test?

Dude is a really good QB

No sh*t, Dick Tracy. Thanks.

the subhuman characteristics he is promoting.

Future, go sober up. Jeezus.

(Oh, and tell me the model of your "www.hawkshack.com only" cell phone)

[HumanCockroach]

Per Ed Werder Tweet;

"Russell Wilson says he tries he tries to combine the smarts of Peyton Manning, the throws of Aaron Rodgers . .".

Please google the Tweet, cannot even remember it all. Tom Brady is mentioned.

Now I already know the response: "Well everyone tries to do that, he just strives for it. He isn't saying he DOES it". It's chalk full of everything but humility any way you slice it.

Please. The guy has opened his game up to all kinds of scrutiny by talking like this, talking about being the greatest QB ever, etc. LOL and you guys are STILL claiming he didn't make the ROTY comment. As if that is such a stretch after absurd comments like this.

Dude is a really good QB and I actually like watching him play. But for F's sake nobody has room left to get as ticked as some of you do when other people disagree with the subhuman characteristics he is promoting. Bis ego is bigger than this planet right now.

You know I had a big long sarcastic post here, but on second thought, I'll let your post, and knowledge on the subject stand on it's own merit ( or lack there of as it were).