James Carpenter

[RiverDog]

Our #1 pick in the 2011 draft, was supposed to be our answer at RT, was absolutely horrible at that position, experiment lasted less than one season before moved to OG, hurt more than he was healthy, always in terrible shape, couldn't make blocks on the 2nd level, was spun around like a revolving door when pass blocking. Only positive attribute was point of attack run blocking. He subsequently was beat out by a journeyman in the 2013 season and not even activated for several games, looked to be heading out the door as we refused to pick up his 5th year option.

But starting late last winter, he turned a new leaf. He lost a bunch of weight, got himself into his best playing shape of his professional career, and did a commendable job this past season. He's a UFA this year, and is bound to get some nice offers.

So how far do we go with this guy? Was our refusal to pick up his option the major kick in the butt for him to get in shape and slip back into his old habits if we give him a nice contract with a bunch of guaranteed money? Or are we in such bad shape on the OL that we pretty much have to pay what he can earn on the FA market and bring him back?

[monkey]

If we had better options, I'd say they ought to let him walk. I never trust guys in contract years suddenly getting in shape.
We may not have better options though, the Seahawks have painted themselves into the corner in terms of offensive line.
It has gone from a position weakness to a point now where, it's getting desperate. All those offensive linemen we stand to lose to free agency in the next two seasons, and Wilson and Wagner still aren't under new contracts yet.

I'd still love to see a whole bunch of upgrades on the line, but we may be scrambling just to resign enough players to even field a reasonable facsimile of a line.

[HumanCockroach]

I don't think there are to many huge contracts thrown around for guards, and I doubt Seattle doesn't understand that. Carpenter improved drastically across the board this season, including in pass blocking, with exception of his stupid false starts ( which comparatively weren't "bad" on this team) he did a pretty damn good job.

It takes time to develop a line, and towards the end of the year the starters were playing together, and doing a better job. Carpenter should be able to be resigned at a reasonable rate, if not they let him walk, but that is really the only way I see them making the choice to once again attempt to build that line from scratch ( as Okung is likely gone after next season).

Carpenter had a pretty good year, stayed relatively healthy ( missed one game) and did well overall, especially in run blocking. To let him walk if he is going to cost less than he did last year ( he was signed as a first round pick, and paid as a tackle not guard) would be a huge mistake IMHO, as it would have to pick up his fifth year option....

[NorthHawk]

All it takes is one of the 31 other teams thinking he's worth more money than Seattle is prepared to pay.
Okung and Sweezy are up next year with the same situation.
At worst, we will lose all 3, but in reality we will probably lose only 2 at most.

Will Carpenter revert to his slovenly ways?
I doubt many of us outside of the organization know him well enough to say.
The last 4 years will have given the team enough information to make a decision as to his character.
Some guys never grow up, and others change focus completely in the course of a few years. Maybe he's one of those who finally figured out what it takes to be a starter in the NFL.

I read a comment about Schneider asking Sherman who he would be when he gets his money.
I think that process will evolve with Carpenter as well - and with Okung and Sweezy next year if not sooner, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him test FA.

[HumanCockroach]

Fair enough, but I don't think getting into a bidding war over the services of Carpenter is all that likely. They'll treat him "fairly" but overpay? Nope, don't see that happening.

[NorthHawk]

"Fair enough, but I don't think getting into a bidding war over the services of Carpenter is all that likely. They'll treat him "fairly" but overpay? Nope, don't see that happening."

That's where we have a good chance to have to replace him.
I'm not saying that's bad, but rather it then becomes a bigger need.

[HumanCockroach]

Decent guards are a dime a dozen ( of which I would say Carpenter indeed is) I'm not overly concerned if that is how it plays out, but for a reasonable price? Yeah, I would say pay him, keep him, and allow the line to continue to attempt to find some continuity, some health, and continued success.

A lot of people have been critical ( fair IMHO) but the truth is, this is the second season in a row where the starting five played less than 6 regular season games together, to me, that says that either they cannot stay healthy ( which is a concern) or there has been a crazy amount of injuries that go along with playing in the NFL. I seriously doubt there is a team in the NFL that has lost more games amongst their starting offensive line over the last two years, and look what they have still been able to accomplish.

I understand the desire to change it, but I certainly would be dissapointed to see those players moving on to other teams, only to find that they became durable, and all pro's somewhere else. For all the slights thrown their way this year, I can see the talent, I can see the potential, and I worry about pulling the plug early.

[NorthHawk]

Decent starting Guards that can play Cables' system might be more difficult to find.
If they were easy to find, I would have thought they would have found a more durable player and used Carpenter as a backup when required.
It's not like he showed consistent promise until the last 2 years, but he still missed some games.
Last year he played in all 16, and this year 13, so maybe he's just rounding into form at the NFL level after the major knee injury.

I'm not concerned at what the FO will offer him because they do have a plan that they have shown they don't want to deviate from.
That being said, the potential of some team poaching him might surprise us.
We'll have to wait to see if he gets to FA and if so, if he gets some stronger offers.

What it does mean is our FO should be looking at OL this draft considering 2 others will have a chance next year.

[HumanCockroach]

I'm not one that has ever travelled the FO isn't looking at Line talent each and every draft, so I'm not of the opinion that they are "more focussed" this year than every other year since they got here. The draft lineman every year, and I doubt that will ever change.

As in all cases, I don't think this FO drafts based on needs, at least they haven't done so to this point, they draft based on the "unique" abilities they see amongst the players they covet ( which is obviously not the same as pretty much 31 other teams) sometimes that means lineman, sometimes it doesn't. They are not going to draft one, just because, they will however draft one, if he fits what they want, and has those "unique" abilities they are looking for in one.

I do find it a bit humorous to see people talking about the value of a player ( Carpenter) that for four years people have insisted has none. The dude is a lot better than people give him credit for ( as are all the lineman in Seattle, something it feels like I have to continue to defend). While they may not be the "best" pass blocking line, or the "best" line period, they are doing something right, as I promise, no matter how special Lynch and Wilson are, if they are indeed as horrible as many profess, they don't sniff a SB, much less two in a row.

I personally like what I have seen from that line, when able to play with most of the starters ( for example I'm not sure people realise, that against Carolina, was the FIRST time Seattle rolled out it's starting unit complete, since week six) Injuries are part of the game, and Seattles line IMHO is strong enough to withstand the loss of one of those starting five, but when you get to two, three, and sometimes FOUR of those starting five missing, it is a tall task to overcome. I would like to see a fully healthy year ( or "for the most part") and what that line could actually do.

[RiverDog]

If we had better options, I'd say they ought to let him walk. I never trust guys in contract years suddenly getting in shape.
We may not have better options though, the Seahawks have painted themselves into the corner in terms of offensive line.
It has gone from a position weakness to a point now where, it's getting desperate. All those offensive linemen we stand to lose to free agency in the next two seasons, and Wilson and Wagner still aren't under new contracts yet.

I'd still love to see a whole bunch of upgrades on the line, but we may be scrambling just to resign enough players to even field a reasonable facsimile of a line.

That's it with me, too. If Carpenter had played at the level, or at least was in the same general shape as he did this this year, I'd feel more comfortable about resigning him. Playing like a dog for his first 4 years then suddenly wakes up in his contract year is a big red flag. As it is, we don't have a heck of a lot of choices. Sign him to a reasonable contract offer or go out and find a serviceable guard the likes of Paul McQuistran in FA or find a gem in the draft. Problem is we already have a sizeable wish list going into the draft and we have bigger fish to fry with our cap space.

It would be nice to pick up a player in the draft that can play guard and center. I know, people in hell would like ice water, too.

[NorthHawk]

That knee injury takes about 2 years to fully heal.
He said in the off season that it was the first time in a few years he was able to run without pain for a few years.
It's no wonder he got into better shape.

Like I said above, those around him know his character better than us so if they offer him a surprising (to us) contract then we will just have to think they believe in him.
Our FO aren't the types to take long term gambles on players that they have serious doubts about.

Edit:
I don't thing he will be around, but Cameron Erving from Florida St. fits the bill of a player that can play any position on the OL

[NorthHawk]

I'm not one that has ever travelled the FO isn't looking at Line talent each and every draft, so I'm not of the opinion that they are "more focussed" this year than every other year since they got here. The draft lineman every year, and I doubt that will ever change.

As in all cases, I don't think this FO drafts based on needs, at least they haven't done so to this point, they draft based on the "unique" abilities they see amongst the players they covet ( which is obviously not the same as pretty much 31 other teams) sometimes that means lineman, sometimes it doesn't. They are not going to draft one, just because, they will however draft one, if he fits what they want, and has those "unique" abilities they are looking for in one.

I do find it a bit humorous to see people talking about the value of a player ( Carpenter) that for four years people have insisted has none. The dude is a lot better than people give him credit for ( as are all the lineman in Seattle, something it feels like I have to continue to defend). While they may not be the "best" pass blocking line, or the "best" line period, they are doing something right, as I promise, no matter how special Lynch and Wilson are, if they are indeed as horrible as many profess, they don't sniff a SB, much less two in a row.

I personally like what I have seen from that line, when able to play with most of the starters ( for example I'm not sure people realise, that against Carolina, was the FIRST time Seattle rolled out it's starting unit complete, since week six) Injuries are part of the game, and Seattles line IMHO is strong enough to withstand the loss of one of those starting five, but when you get to two, three, and sometimes FOUR of those starting five missing, it is a tall task to overcome. I would like to see a fully healthy year ( or "for the most part") and what that line could actually do.

We don't regularly draft OL at quality draft spots (2nd to 5th round depending on the depth of the draft). I believe we should take 1 OL in the middle rounds just about every year. Since we haven't, we might be in the position in the next 2 years of having to draft 3 OL. I'd like to see the OL fully healthy for a year, too but the reality is it has never been that way since Pete took over. I think that means more emphasis should be placed on quality OL in the draft. If they beat out a starter and can stay healthy, so be it. That's what competition is for.

If you don't think we draft for need, you are fooling yourself. Every team without exception drafts for need. It's the primary reason for the draft.
We took Britt, Wagner, Okung, Thomas, Carpenter, and Wilson all for need.
We took Michael without need, but he has yet to fulfill the promise of that selection.

[HumanCockroach]

We don't regularly draft OL at quality draft spots (2nd to 5th round depending on the depth of the draft). I believe we should take 1 OL in the middle rounds just about every year

Sorry North this is categorically wrong. Seattle has indeed drafted lineman in those rounds every year except the year of Irvin/Wilson/Wagner draft. Okung, Carpenter, Moffitt,Britt, they do indeed typically draft OL in every draft in those rounds( or higher in two of them Okung and Carpenter both first round picks), and in over half of them the first pick they have used ( Irvin being the only exception) have been indeed used on an OL player.

Sure Seattle adresses needs, the difference between Seattle and the majority of the NFL is they don't draft ONLY because of need. Seattle didn't at the time need to draft Wilson, but did, nor did it need to draft a LOT of the players that are special on this team, but did. Does anyone really believe they need to draft more DB's two years ago?? Not a chance, but they most certainly did just that. Did they "need" to draft more LB's last off season? Absolutely not, but did so anyway.

Of course need is a part of the equation, but in Seattles case it isn't the primary part of it, as it is with most teams. They are pretty fluid with young players, and have no issue drafting the guy they think could be "special" at another position than one of need, than one that they view as serviceable at a "need" position.

If you think that is what they are doing North, I'm not sure you have been paying attention to the draft selections they have made since they arrived.

You can continue to question the success of those drafted, but I'm not sure anyone will buy that they are not drafting them.