Tebow to the Eagles

[c_hawkbob]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12723 ... -agreement

This actually doesn't surprise me. It's a no risk chance at a back up QB that might actually work in their system.

[RiverDog]

If anybody was going to take a chance on Tebow, it would be Chip Kelly. Like him or loathe him, he's as outside the box as any of the current 32 NFL head coaches.

[jshawaii22]

what a total waste of cap space, but great for P.R... at least until you have to cut him.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm not so sure about it as a PR move. Seems to me you're opening yourself up for a lot more ridicule and derision than kudos and congratulations. I think Chip actually needs to see some possibilities there to make this move.

[RiverDog]

Yea, I don't see Tebow's PR value, either. "The Circus" seems to have gone into remission and the City of Brotherly Love isn't exactly like the Bible Belt where Tebow could attract a dedicated following. And you have to keep in mind the activities of the past few months, where Kelly's flamboyant moves in trading away his starting quarterback that had been performing relatively well for damaged goods that's hardly the model quarterback for his Quack Attack and in dealing the team's popular star running back for one of his pet students from Oregon are raising a lot of eyebrows. If this team doesn't make the playoffs, the Tebow signing will be just one more poison dart for fans to hurl.

I'm not convinced that Tebow is the type of quarterback that can run Philly's offense. Kelly himself once specifically mentioned Tebow in saying that his offense is not one modeled after a Tim Tebow type of quarterback. They weren't interested in keeping Michael Vick around as a backup, so I'm not sure what the attraction to Tebow is.

[jshawaii22]

You're 3000 miles from Philly... you're the fan of another team. A player was signed to be '4th string' at the Veteran's minimum. We think enough of this to place it on our Seahawks blog... but RD and Bob think this signing was something of substance and not for PR. Right......

js

[c_hawkbob]

So those are the only two possibilities; "something of substance" or a PR move? It couldn't be a zero risk flyer on potential back up QB?

And how in the world is it great PR? Is Philly now the Bible Belt-north? The fact that you are ridiculing the move (along with half of the rest of the world) rather proves to be the opposite of "great PR" doesn't it?

[RiverDog]

You're 3000 miles from Philly... you're the fan of another team. A player was signed to be '4th string' at the Veteran's minimum. We think enough of this to place it on our Seahawks blog... but RD and Bob think this signing was something of substance and not for PR. Right......

js

I don't know why Kelly signed Tebow. There are reports that Tebow has successfully addressed some of the mechanical issues that plagued him throughout his professional career, so perhaps Kelly saw the same thing and knowing what a physical stud the guy is, decided he was worth a chance, or maybe he has some sort of 'package' in mind. Maybe Kelly's going to experiment with the Wildcat this season. Who knows. Like I said, Kelly thinks outside the box more than any current head coach in the league, so who knows what he sees in Tebow.

But I feel very confident that this is not a mere PR move. Tebow's last stop, which resulted in him getting cut, did not generate near as much interest compared to those heady days in Denver. It seems that most of his following have turned the page on TT. He'd have to first win a starting job then win some games in order to bring them back under his tent and revive Tebow Mania.

[jshawaii22]

I don't know what living in the Bible Belt has to do with signing him. I think there are probably a lot of Christians in the Philly area and he can do some good for the team which has undergone some very bad press the last year. I don't see that part as a negative for him, the team or the league at all.

Maybe they did sign him with the intention of giving him the opportunity to supplant Barkley, but come on, he's not 10% the QB that either Bradford or Sanchez are and neither of them are very good. Tebow plain sucks at anything other then running the option. When he first came in, it was new and different. Just like the "Jet Sweep" was and playing RB's at QB. Yes, He sparked the Bronco's for a few games, but now, all the teams know how to play and defend him. He'd be worse at it then Jake Locker, that's for sure.

OK, so PR Stunt isn't what I meant. But they sure didn't sign him to be their starting QB or compete for that job.

js

[c_hawkbob]

Well I'm sorry but I really have no idea how it's even possible for a third year head coach to sign a QB for any other reason. Chip's still got a lot to prove and he's in the middle of a complete overhaul of the most important position on his team. He's no lock for a second contract (or even to finish out this one), he can't afford to be doing anything for anything but football reasons.

[NorthHawk]

It's been said by some that Chip has a healthy ego, so what better challenge than to make Tebow an NFL QB when others failed?
If he doesn't work out, then he just ends up being another QB arm in Training Camp and no harm done.

As said before, Kelly has never defined what type of QB is required for his Offense and has said his Offense can use any type of QB and be successful.

This might end up being an interesting story or a non story, but I doubt it will be under the media radar.

[RiverDog]

It's been said by some that Chip has a healthy ego, so what better challenge than to make Tebow an NFL QB when others failed?
If he doesn't work out, then he just ends up being another QB arm in Training Camp and no harm done.

As said before, Kelly has never defined what type of QB is required for his Offense and has said his Offense can use any type of QB and be successful.

This might end up being an interesting story or a non story, but I doubt it will be under the media radar.

Actually he has somewhat defined the type of quarterback he's looking for. It's been a few years and it was when he was at Oregon, but it's worth noting:

“I look for a quarterback who can run and not a running back who can throw. I want a quarterback who can beat you with his arm,” Kelly said, via Grantland. “We are not a Tim Tebow type of quarterback team. I am not going to run my quarterback 20 times on power runs.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... back-team/

I agree with Cbob. Kelly cannot afford one single roster spot as anything less than a 100% football decision. All NFL coaches are evaluated on their on field performance, not their off field box office draw or merchandise sales. If you win, the financial stuff will all fall into place.

Kelly would desperately love to get his hands on Mariota, but it's looking like Tennessee (assuming the Bucs take Winston instead of Mariota) is going to either grab him themselves or trade the pick to some other team that wants him, and Kelly doesn't have quite the draft capital necessary to move up to #2 overalll unless he wants to sell his future like Snyder did to get RG3. If Mariota were to somehow drop to the Jets pick at #6, Kelly might be able to move up and get him, but I don't see that happening. Mariota's stock has been on the rise since the combine. The guy has made a big impression on a lot of teams.

[savvyman]

This makes no sense as a "PR Move" - Unless you are looking for generating Negative PR for the most part.

Chip probably sees some potential for a big athletic QB who can run well in his offense.

Also - Tebow has been working for months on his mechanics with a notable throwing coach:


http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/03/could_tim_tebow_attempt_an_nfl.html


This is a good decision for Chip Kelly - There is absolutely zero risk and no cost to bringing in Tebow for a better look. If he fails then there is no cost - if he succeeds then Chip will have acquired a roster player for zero cost. And if Tebow actually can contribute (such as if Bradford or Sanchez goes down)?

[NorthHawk]

"Actually he has somewhat defined the type of quarterback he's looking for. It's been a few years and it was when he was at Oregon, but it's worth noting:

“I look for a quarterback who can run and not a running back who can throw. I want a quarterback who can beat you with his arm,” Kelly said, via Grantland. “We are not a Tim Tebow type of quarterback team. I am not going to run my quarterback 20 times on power runs.”"

Which is interesting because when Foles became the starter he said any QB could succeed in his system after Vick was injured.
Maybe it was just talk because of Foles athletic limitations when compared to Vick.

[Hawktawk]

I think its intriguing. #1 good for Tim Tebow. He doesn't need the money and he has an excellent career as a very talented college football analyst but he is willing to put in the work and face the ridicule etc to try to chase his dream.
#2 he is the first true read option guy Kelley has had in Philly. Something must have changed with his throwing motion as well. He would be an excellent option in short yardage or goal line situations as well. Kelley has created a lot of controversy already and this may just be another head scratcher but I will always root for everything Tebow is about.
We will see.

[RiverDog]

I think its intriguing. #1 good for Tim Tebow. He doesn't need the money and he has an excellent career as a very talented college football analyst but he is willing to put in the work and face the ridicule etc to try to chase his dream.
#2 he is the first true read option guy Kelley has had in Philly. Something must have changed with his throwing motion as well. He would be an excellent option in short yardage or goal line situations as well. Kelley has created a lot of controversy already and this may just be another head scratcher but I will always root for everything Tebow is about.
We will see.

Something HAS to have changed in his throwing motion or else based on Kelly's previous opinion of TT, he wouldn't even have given him a second thought.

Color me skeptical, though. It's one thing to demonstrate improved mechanics when its under a controlled environment such as is the case in a workout and a completely different matter to replicate those improvements under game conditions.

As you said, we shall see.

[jshawaii22]

This makes no sense as a "PR Move" - Unless you are looking for generating Negative PR for the most part.

Chip probably sees some potential for a big athletic QB who can run well in his offense.

Also - Tebow has been working for months on his mechanics with a notable throwing coach:


http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/03/could_tim_tebow_attempt_an_nfl.html


This is a good decision for Chip Kelly - There is absolutely zero risk and no cost to bringing in Tebow for a better look. If he fails then there is no cost - if he succeeds then Chip will have acquired a roster player for zero cost. And if Tebow actually can contribute (such as if Bradford or Sanchez goes down)?

Why wouldn't this make sense as a PR Move and why would it generate any negative PR? Over the last 3 years, since he left football, he has done a huge amount of good in the christian community, speaks to teens, does all good. ESPN thinks enough of him to hire him on. Why would they do that? The only negative is if you're anti-god in sports. But then, look at Russell and tell me how they're really different. Not as much as you would think, except Russell doesn't show it on the field.

[Hawktawk]

The Tebow faithful are out there, plenty of them. So are the haters. But for cripes sake when we have guys like Ray Rice, Aaron Hernandez, Greg Hardy in the headlines its refreshing to see a guy who is true to who he is which is a very good man and and extremely hard worker. He has many Wilsonesque qualities IMO and please I know not nearly as good an arm but the work ethic,positive mindset and the will to win and the last minute wins of games he played ugly(Wilson has had a few dont say he hasn't)
I think its smart of Kelley and a total PR plus.

[RiverDog]

The Tebow faithful are out there, plenty of them. So are the haters. But for cripes sake when we have guys like Ray Rice, Aaron Hernandez, Greg Hardy in the headlines its refreshing to see a guy who is true to who he is which is a very good man and and extremely hard worker. He has many Wilsonesque qualities IMO and please I know not nearly as good an arm but the work ethic,positive mindset and the will to win and the last minute wins of games he played ugly(Wilson has had a few dont say he hasn't)
I think its smart of Kelley and a total PR plus.

A "total" PR plus? Come on, Hawktalk. Everybody agrees that Rice, Hernandez, and Hardy are men of extremely poor character and everyone will agree that Tim Tebow walks the talk when it comes to being the complete opposite of those scumbags and is nothing less than an outstanding citizen. But that's not the point.

The point is that Tebow is the most polarizing player to have played in the league for quite some time, and by that I mean he attracts a wide range of opinions, from the positive ones you espouse to a Jimmy Swaggart style televangelist that I think he is. He was a huge distraction in Denver, and placed an enormous amount of pressure on Broncos management when it came time to make a decision on upgrading the quarterback position. If not for the fact that their GM was a HOF quarterback himself and undoubtedly the most popular player in team history and that the quarterback they replaced him with was arguably the best to have ever played, they would have been burning effigies of the GM and HC.

Personally I think all the hoopla about The Circus has died down and that his following is a non factor this time around, but it is not, as you put it, a total PR plus. A good argument can be made that it's a big PR risk.

[Hawktawk]

Tebow a distraction in Denver? you're wrong, he was a sensation in Denver with about a 90% approval rate among fans, a division title and a home playoff win in dramatic overtime fashion. Elway loathed him (jealousy)and brought in the only player he could to avoid being run out of town on a rail for trading him. And the Manning move has accomplished that purpose but has been a FAILURE on the field with MR star wars numbers losing at home in the playoffs twice in the last 3 years and being the worst player on the field in SB 48. In his heart of hears Elway is wishing Manning would walk away and I predict an ugly scene on the field in 2015 when Manning absolutely comes apart and has to be benched.

An Eagle exec is quoted as saying Tebow is improved from his time with the Jets and Patriots. We will see, may be another flash in the pan but if Bradford the china doll/Sanchez(we already have seen that movie) dont pan out the fans in Philly will be screaming for Tebow.

[NorthHawk]

The most popular player on a losing team is the backup QB.
It doesn't mean he is any good, rather that everyone will be screaming for change.
Sometimes that change of pace works for a while, but it is rarely sustained.

[HumanCockroach]

Did someone really say Elway dumped Tebow, then signed perhaps the greatest QB to play the game, because his " jealousy" ? That's a joke right? Elway has two SB rings, a bust in canton, is considered a top ten QB of all time, replaced him with a first ballott HOF QB that took them to a SB and has shatered numerous records along the way ( several records held by Elway himself) and he did it because of jealousy?

Not no Tebow "hater", as I do not hate cup of coffee, back ups, but if anyone even eludes to jealousy as a reason Elway UPGRADED the position, then there is either far too many drugs involved, or someone is severely delusional.

[Hawktawk]

Not no Tebow "hater", as I do not hate cup of coffee, back ups, but if anyone even eludes to jealousy as a reason Elway UPGRADED the position, then there is either far too many drugs involved, or someone is severely delusional.

Yeah I did say jealousy was a component of Elway's LOATHING of Tebow. John Elway is as narcissistic as they come. Tebow was loved, adored by the fans in a way that hadn't happened since...hmmm..I never saw a GM look so much like he was passing a gallstone when his QB would pull another win out of his ass.
And Elway himself said Manning was brought in to WIN super bowls, not get blown off the field and look absolutely ancient doing it. So I guess he wasn't brought there to lose twice at home either and look pathetic doing that as well... Its been a FAILURE.Like Irsay said "star wars numbers but not a lot of hardware." Peyton Manning is the biggest gagger of all time. Serves Elway right.


I really dont need any lectures about Elways resume or career accomplishments.I watched him quite a bit as a Seahawks fan, too frigging long. It didn't happen in his first year though. I dont recall seeing Tebow line up behind the guard ever in his career like Elway when he was pathetic early in his career.Elway threw 29 picks his first 2 years in 24 starts and had a FORTY SEVEN PERCENT COMPLETION RATIO as a rook.He only completed 60 percent of his passes in 3 of his pro seasons. His career QBR is only 76.But hey they made the playoffs a couple of times while he was still struggling to learn the pro game. Why? A filthy defense and a QB who had a knack for playing like chit and them making a huge play or drive in crunch time, winning with sheer athleticism....However he never won a Superbowl until Denver drafted a stud back.


The ironic thing about Elway is that his greatest plays were made running around, buying time while the defensive secondary lost track of his receivers or just flat out running with the ball. Big strong athletic guy who Knox called "a running back with a cannon for an arm."Reminds me of a couple of guys, one in particular comes to mind.

Yeah jealousy was a component of Elway's decision.And I'm entitled to that opinion without hearing a bunch or rude personal attacks.
Like I say, spare the lectures and disparaging comments about drugs and delusion. You are a hater just like Elway and lots of other people.

[HumanCockroach]

ROTFLNFAO. Whatever, if you can't see the flaws in his game, then whatever. Elway ALWAYS showed the mechanics, footwork and arm strength, from day number one. Elway indeed had to learn the game. Problem is, Tebow was NOT making mistakes because he didn't know what to do, he made those mistakes because he couldn't do it.

If Elways ego and jealousy played a role, he would NOT have even thought of bringing Manning, period. As for the "failure" of said move, last I checked Tebow hasn't appeared in one SB, Manning has. anyone claiming that Manning wasn't an upgrade over Tebow is indeed delusional.

As for his "look" after Tebow pulled out another win, maybe it was disgust with his play, against inferior opponents for the first 55 minutes of each game, knowing it wouldn't work when facing a quality playoff opponent like say A NE team that mopped the field with Tebow...... But nah, definitely jealousy.... LOL.

[obiken]

Big waste of time, he is not accurate at all. IF he was he would have had a job along time ago. C-bob, Its a win win for him. IF he fails he just goes back to ESPN.

[RiverDog]

Tebow a distraction in Denver? you're wrong, he was a sensation in Denver with about a 90% approval rate among fans, a division title and a home playoff win in dramatic overtime fashion. Elway loathed him (jealousy)and brought in the only player he could to avoid being run out of town on a rail for trading him. And the Manning move has accomplished that purpose but has been a FAILURE on the field with MR star wars numbers losing at home in the playoffs twice in the last 3 years and being the worst player on the field in SB 48. In his heart of hears Elway is wishing Manning would walk away and I predict an ugly scene on the field in 2015 when Manning absolutely comes apart and has to be benched.

An Eagle exec is quoted as saying Tebow is improved from his time with the Jets and Patriots. We will see, may be another flash in the pan but if Bradford the china doll/Sanchez(we already have seen that movie) dont pan out the fans in Philly will be screaming for Tebow.

90% approval rating? First of all, where did you get that information? Neither the Pope, Abraham Lincoln, or Mr. Rogers has ever posted a 90% approval rating. Secondly, if it is something more than an assumption of yours and is actually an opinion poll, was it based on likeability or functionality? I saw a poll where Tebow had a 59% approval rating state wide in Colorado, in itself quite a feat because it was higher than the rating John Elway got, but that was essentially a popularity contest and highlights the main part of the problem: Benching/trading/cutting a highly popular, unproductive player.

While in Denver, Tebow mounted his own PR department to advance his rather controversial cause, which had the effect, perhaps unintended, of building his popular support amongst a very dedicated group of Bronco fans, which made it extremely difficult for the Broncos management to make football related decisions regarding his future with the team. That's the distraction I was talking about.

[Hawktawk]

ROTFLNFAO. Whatever, if you can't see the flaws in his game, then whatever. Elway ALWAYS showed the mechanics, footwork and arm strength, from day number one. Elway indeed had to learn the game. Problem is, Tebow was NOT making mistakes because he didn't know what to do, he made those mistakes because he couldn't do it.

If Elways ego and jealousy played a role, he would NOT have even thought of bringing Manning, period. As for the "failure" of said move, last I checked Tebow hasn't appeared in one SB, Manning has. anyone claiming that Manning wasn't an upgrade over Tebow is indeed delusional.

As for his "look" after Tebow pulled out another win, maybe it was disgust with his play, against inferior opponents for the first 55 minutes of each game, knowing it wouldn't work when facing a quality playoff opponent like say A NE team that mopped the field with Tebow...... But nah, definitely jealousy.... LOL.

Denver lost 39-20 to the Giants,45-10 to the Skins and 55 to 10 to the 9ers in 3 SB appearances throughout the 80s despite having all world Elway behind center.I think thats called getting the floor mopped up with yourself too......Better check your facts...Its all Elway did his first 3 SBs.The guys is such a Narcissistic hypocrite and his fans have selective amnesia too.


None of you get it....You dont. Do you think the Tebow fans cant see his flaws? you think we are frigging blind? The guy had a ridiculous throwing motion.There were numerous plays he had no idea where to go with the ball after the snap. But he figured it out more often than not. Thats part of the attraction, the sort of against all odds angle when he would win once again. That Denver Tebow team which he QB d to a 7-4 record and a playoff win was a nasty, gritty, grind it out team that was always hanging around at the end of games led by an unconventional QB with a knack for big plays in crunch time and who didn't make very many turnovers..

See HC Elway wasn't threatened in the least by Manning who already had an established legacy and a premade bust with a colts logo in Canton. He brought in a guy who was a totally immobile giraffe, A guy who couldn't have been a more different type of player than himself. He obviously hoped to win with him but it was a stupid move based on a couple of factors. Namely Mannings dreadful playoff record even at home in a dome with loaded teams. He was not a cold weather player and was a notorious gagger throughout his career despite putting up STAR WARS NUMBERS IN THE REGULAR SEASON.And hes been the same guy in Denver.....He has and its bullshit to say otherwise....


Was he an upgrade?From a technical measurables standpoint obviously 100 times over. From a strategic standpoint we really dont know do we? Because if its about the Lombardi they aint getting that with Mr flight deck star wars giraffe, sorry. Might have looked prettier by far but its no better destination, maybe not as good. We just wont ever know.

[RiverDog]

Denver lost 39-20 to the Giants,45-10 to the Skins and 55 to 10 to the 9ers in 3 SB appearances throughout the 80s despite having all world Elway behind center.I think thats called getting the floor mopped up with yourself too......Better check your facts...Its all Elway did his first 3 SBs.The guys is such a Narcissistic hypocrite and his fans have selective amnesia too.

I wouldn't use Denver's 3 lopsided SB losses as evidence that teams mopped the floor with Elway. Just getting there is a major achievement. Elway was the starting quarterback on 5 Super Bowl teams. That's more than Montana, more than Marino, more than Peyton Manning, more than anyone not named Tom Brady. The fact that he lost his first three in no way keeps him from being included in the discussion of one of the greatest quarterbacks of his era.

[Hawktawk]

I wouldn't use Denver's 3 lopsided SB losses as evidence that teams mopped the floor with Elway. Just getting there is a major achievement. Elway was the starting quarterback on 5 Super Bowl teams. That's more than Montana, more than Marino, more than Peyton Manning, more than anyone not named Tom Brady. The fact that he lost his first three in no way keeps him from being included in the discussion of one of the greatest quarterbacks of his era.

Absolutely no argument about Elway's greatness as a QB. making 5 SBs is an incredible feat, especially with the same team over a 14 year span. And early in his career he did it as a featured player who was largely responsible for getting them there. But RD he got sandblasted in the first 3 and played poorly. My point is every QB gets the floor mopped with him now and again, plays poorly.

It is a fact that Elway would look nauseated when Tebow would win another one, and he made it plain in every post game interview that he didn't view Tebow as the answer long term. It was beyond being a GM, it was personal IMO. After the season he said Tebow would be the starter headed into training camp(what else could he say) but when Manning became available he threw him the moon knowing he was the one FA he could bring in that would allow the Tebow fans to accept trading him.Results of the decision? a pathetic home loss collapse to the Ravens in the first round and Manning looked like weekend at Bernie's. Then SB 48. I'm glad it was Manning and not Brady eh? He stunk up the joint, by far the worst player on the field. Then we all saw last year blown out at home in the first round by a Colts team that got thrashed a week later.Manning is a shell of himself and the speculation about whether he will finish the season has begun. Now Fox is gone as the scapegoat with Elway making comments like" I wish we could have at least put up a fight" a reference to the team being soft.Like I say big boy, you're a hypocrite. watch some of the game film from your failures so you can remember.And better check out some game film of Kubiaks Texans if you want to see "soft".


Its coming apart for Elway, as great as he was as a player hes that bad as a GM. The chair is getting warm.

[HumanCockroach]

Was he an upgrade?From a technical measurables standpoint obviously 100 times over. From a strategic standpoint we really dont know do we? Because if its about the Lombardi they aint getting that with Mr flight deck star wars giraffe, sorry. Might have looked prettier by far but its no better destination, maybe not as good. We just wont ever know.

Sure we will, when Tebow gets to and wins more SB' S than Manning, get back to us then. Be happy to admit he was better when he is actually better. Until then, he isn't and it was not even remotely close

None of you get it....You dont. Do you think the Tebow fans cant see his flaws? you think we are frigging blind?

In regards to his ability to play the position, absolutely. Here you are arguing Manning was not an upgrad, and that Elway traded him, not to upgrade the position, but out of some petty jealousy, meanwhile Tebow can' t get a job for two full years, and it isn't Tebows fault, but someone else's. Some bias, some slight. Dude just isn't ( and never was) a very good QB, hence NO job ( EVEN as a second or third string backup) and yet you and many others continue to sing his praises, and insist his merits as a starting QB. If THAT isn't blind, I don't know what is.

[Hawktawk]

Sure we will, when Tebow gets to and wins more SB' S than Manning, get back to us then. Be happy to admit he was better when he is actually better. Until then, he isn't and it was not even remotely close

No we wont know what Tebow may have done in Denver if Elway had believed in him and mentored him instead of trading him.I'm not taking about Peyton Manning the Colt and his zillion yards and historic collapses at home with HFA throughout. I'm talking about the manning Elway signed and who has had 3 years on a loaded Denver team. Elway said himself that Manning was brought in to WIN championships. We know he was 1-2 at home in Denver and an absolute disgrace in the Superbowl he went to his second year. Tebow was 1 and 0 at home in the playoffs with Denver and did not have a turnover in either of his playoff games while Manning served up numerous picks and fumbles in all his playoff losses with Denver.And he inherited a playoff team and was given every weapon he wanted to succeed as well as complete control over his offense.

Tebow never got a second year. So we will never know. When Manning brings home some hardware i will admit it was a strategic upgrade to derail the career of an all American kid with supreme self confidence and the "it" factor in big moments and replace him with an aging superstar in the twilight of his career. So far no way.Thats why its a borderline train wreck in Denver right now with a coaching change after another disastrous home collapse.Serves old horse face right...

[HumanCockroach]

Sorry, will never ever, EVER buy the "derailed career with it" ramble. IF the man was good enough, the man WOULD BE starting somewhere else. Simply wasn't consistent OR good enough to win a SB , much less start, and that is backed up by his inability to stick on any team, much less start, much less lead a team to a SB, much less WIN one.

[RiverDog]

Tebow never got a second year. So we will never know. When Manning brings home some hardware i will admit it was a strategic upgrade to derail the career of an all American kid with supreme self confidence and the "it" factor in big moments and replace him with an aging superstar in the twilight of his career. So far no way.Thats why its a borderline train wreck in Denver right now with a coaching change after another disastrous home collapse.Serves old horse face right...

Tebow never got a 3rd year. His first year in Denver, his rookie season, he got beat out by Kyle Orton.

And as far as your "we'll never know" what if scenario, you can apply that proposition to thousands. The facts about Tim Tebow's pro career are just as HC has described them.

[Hawktawk]

Tebow never got a 3rd year. His first year in Denver, his rookie season, he got beat out by Kyle Orton.

And as far as your "we'll never know" what if scenario, you can apply that proposition to thousands. The facts about Tim Tebow's pro career are just as HC has described them.[/quote]

Kyle Orton was the established starter who had been traded for Jay Cutler. there was no competition Tebows rookie year. Tebow took over a 1-4 Denver team at halftime his second year in week 5, very nearly leading the Broncos back from a large deficit to win the game. He was 8-5 as a Denver starter and won a playoff game with a perfectly timed slant through the second window in OT.316 yards, 31.6 yards per completion etc etc..

So you and HC are wrong. He was good enough to start because he started and won when he had the chance.Thats all its about, winning right? No style points.
Now he has another shot. God Id love to see if any of you haters would have the nuts to come eat some crow if he does have success....

[HumanCockroach]

Skip the " hater" crapola. I don' t hate Tebow anymore than Rick Mirer or Akili Smith, or Jeff George, or any other QB that wasn't good enough at that level to win, and maintain a starting job. Tebow did not have it. Whether you want to make excuses about it or not.

Honestly I could care less about a player who hasn't been anywhere NEAR a starting job in 2 years.

[RiverDog]

Kyle Orton was the established starter who had been traded for Jay Cutler. there was no competition Tebows rookie year. Tebow took over a 1-4 Denver team at halftime his second year in week 5, very nearly leading the Broncos back from a large deficit to win the game. He was 8-5 as a Denver starter and won a playoff game with a perfectly timed slant through the second window in OT.316 yards, 31.6 yards per completion etc etc..

So you and HC are wrong. He was good enough to start because he started and won when he had the chance.Thats all its about, winning right? No style points.
Now he has another shot. God Id love to see if any of you haters would have the nuts to come eat some crow if he does have success....

Plenty of quarterbacks, especially those drafted in the first round, have started in their rookie seasons. There's no reason why Tebow couldn't have won that job in Denver in 2010. Kyle Orton wasn't the "established starter" anymore than Tavaris Jackson was the established starter for us when Russell won the starting job in his rookie season. Orton was a temporary solution at best, never signed to anything more than a two year contract while at Denver. The Broncos would have never traded up in the first round for a quarterback if they had any degree of confidence in Orton. In 2011, Tebow's sophomore season, they extended Orton's contract by a year, which was a bit of a surprise when it happened as after having spent so much draft capital to acquire Tebow, most assumed that he'd be the starter in his second season. He didn't win the starting job in 2011, either, as the Broncos turned to Tebow only after Orton played poorly.

Tebow did win in his brief stint as a starter in Denver. There's no denying that, and if winning 8 games in the regular season and one in the playoffs was the sole criteria for judging a quarterback's performance, the Broncos would never have gone after Peyton Manning. But it's not the sole measure of player performance. If it were, Trent Dilfer would have been resigned by the Ravens after winning 10 out of 11 games, including a Super Bowl, or at the very least gotten a starting job with another team when Baltimore declined to resign him, but he didn't. He was let go and eventually signed with us as a backup to Matt Hasselbeck. His 10-1 record and SB ring as a starter for the Ravens didn't count for much.

I don't 'hate' Tim Tebow and take offense to your accusing me of such sentiments. You are attempting to rationalize my argument by writing me off as some God hating, anti Christian atheist. I'll admit that I don't particularly care for Tebow's style, ie his proselytization of his religious views, but I'm not rooting against him or hoping he fails just so I can say 'I told you so' to someone like yourself. It's more of a curiosity thing with me, whether or not he's actually been able to re-invent his mechanics and whether or not he can sustain those changes under game conditions. So long as the Eagles don't pull off a blockbuster trade and snag Mariota, he'll get a fair shot in Philly as the QB position is essentially open and their offense is a closer fit to his skill set than most NFL offenses. There will be no excuses should he fail to at least win a roster spot with the Eagles. This will be the 4th team he's had a chance to stick with.

I've eaten plenty of crow before, in front of you in this forum as well as in other forums. I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't have the nuts to come in here and fess up should Tebow succeed, unless your lashing out at me is due to your emotional attachment to a very marginal player that you feel the urge to defend.

[SalmonBB]

I hope Tebow does well ... of course, with the important caveat that this does not apply should he play against the Seahawks. I'm a fan. I think he's a much better QB than folks give him credit for, he has guts, and he's a winner. And regarding what I think underlies alot of criticism about him ... I don't hold the fact that he places God first in his life against him; rather, I admire him for it.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[Hawktawk]

That was very reasonable in general RD. No name calling which I appreciate and will pledge to reciprocate


[quote="RiverDog"] Tebow did win in his brief stint as a starter in Denver. There's no denying that, and if winning 8 games in the regular season and one in the playoffs was the sole criteria for judging a quarterback's performance, the Broncos would never have gone after Peyton Manning. But it's not the sole measure of player performance. If it were, Trent Dilfer would have been resigned by the Ravens after winning 10 out of 11 games, including a Super Bowl,

So tell me how did the Dilfer move work out in Baltimore again? Yeah I thought so..... And if Dilfer hadn't blown his Achilles in Seattle there may never have BEEN a Matt Hasslebeck era.He had clearly outplayed Hass at the end of the 2001 season.He didn't deserve to be cut after winning a Superbowl. Just Like Tebow didn't deserve to be traded after winning a division, a playoff game and being named the starter going into training camp. Stuff happens, really deserving guys dont get a fair shot and some really nonperforming players get chance after chance.Life isn't fair and certainly not the NFL.

It's more of a curiosity thing with me, whether or not he's actually been able to re-invent his mechanics and whether or not he can sustain those changes under game conditions.

Me too, Ive made that plain. Nowhere in any of these discussions have I said he WOULD continue to win as a starter. I never said he would win a Superbowl. I said we dont know, and we dont.Hes never had a chance to start since 2011 when he was a playoff game winner.

Don't even start with the Jets situation, please. Ryan hated him worse than Elway and never gave him any consideration even with an absolutely miserable QB roster. Ryan started Simms the 3rd stringer over Tebow the second stringer after Sanchez got dinged up and watched him take 7 sacks, throw several picks and leave concussed then he inserted Sanchez. Some Jets players said that Tebow should have at least been given an opportunity. NE was interesting in that one of the top organizations looked past all the negative BS and brought him in. He was cut on the final cut down and has obviously been working hard on his passing ever since.

I've eaten plenty of crow before, in front of you in this forum as well as in other forums. I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't have the nuts to come in here and fess up should Tebow succeed, unless your lashing out at me is due to your emotional attachment to a very marginal player that you feel the urge to defend.

Fair enough RD and HC as well.You would eat the crow, Ive had quite a few helpings out here in Don Quixote land myself.
Hater is too strong a term. How about non-believers in TT?

See here where we differ so much about Tebow. I dont think hes a marginal player at all. Hes a very marginal passer so far at the pro level but hes a great player, a great leader, tough as whale s*** and hard as a rock. HE WENT 8-5 in 13 pro starts WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO THROW WORTH A DAMN. He played games like hell for 58 minutes then won in the end, won with guts, faith, confidence, superior athleticism.Those traits remind me of a little shorter guy, different complexion, way better mechanics. Those are special traits.

If Tebow cleans up his throwing motion even a little he could be devastating in the Chip Kelley offense which is by far the closest thing to his Florida offense.

[Hawktown]

though i have no TT bone to pick (unless the hawks signed him) an FYI, whale sh** comes out in cloudy plumes but i get what your sayin hawktalk, lol.

[RiverDog]

That was very reasonable in general RD. No name calling which I appreciate and will pledge to reciprocate
So tell me how did the Dilfer move work out in Baltimore again? Yeah I thought so..... And if Dilfer hadn't blown his Achilles in Seattle there may never have BEEN a Matt Hasslebeck era.He had clearly outplayed Hass at the end of the 2001 season.He didn't deserve to be cut after winning a Superbowl. Just Like Tebow didn't deserve to be traded after winning a division, a playoff game and being named the starter going into training camp. Stuff happens, really deserving guys dont get a fair shot and some really nonperforming players get chance after chance.Life isn't fair and certainly not the NFL.

Me too, Ive made that plain. Nowhere in any of these discussions have I said he WOULD continue to win as a starter. I never said he would win a Superbowl. I said we dont know, and we dont.Hes never had a chance to start since 2011 when he was a playoff game winner.

Don't even start with the Jets situation, please. Ryan hated him worse than Elway and never gave him any consideration even with an absolutely miserable QB roster. Ryan started Simms the 3rd stringer over Tebow the second stringer after Sanchez got dinged up and watched him take 7 sacks, throw several picks and leave concussed then he inserted Sanchez. Some Jets players said that Tebow should have at least been given an opportunity. NE was interesting in that one of the top organizations looked past all the negative BS and brought him in. He was cut on the final cut down and has obviously been working hard on his passing ever since.

Fair enough RD and HC as well.You would eat the crow, Ive had quite a few helpings out here in Don Quixote land myself.
Hater is too strong a term. How about non-believers in TT?

See here where we differ so much about Tebow. I dont think hes a marginal player at all. Hes a very marginal passer so far at the pro level but hes a great player, a great leader, tough as whale s*** and hard as a rock. HE WENT 8-5 in 13 pro starts WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO THROW WORTH A DAMN. He played games like hell for 58 minutes then won in the end, won with guts, faith, confidence, superior athleticism.Those traits remind me of a little shorter guy, different complexion, way better mechanics. Those are special traits.

If Tebow cleans up his throwing motion even a little he could be devastating in the Chip Kelley offense which is by far the closest thing to his Florida offense.

Dilfer was signed with the specific intent to backup Matt. Holmgren said so when he signed him. In 2001 following is SB year, Dlifer was signed to a one year contract and only started when Hass was hurt. Hass struggled mightily that season, so the team resigned Dilfer to a 4 year deal and allowed him to compete for the starting job the following year. But Holmgren made it clear who his starter was both prior to and after signing Dilfer to his first contract with the Hawks. My point about Dilfer was that like Tebow, winning alone didn't do his career a lot of good. He was evaluated on his individual performance more than that of his team's performance in those games he started.

I though I was being very generous when I called Tebow "marginal." I don't know too many quarterbacks in NFL history with as many attempts that posted a sub 50% career completion percentage and a career QBR of 33.4. If he was anything more than a marginal player, he would have been picked up long ago. And as far as that Jets/Rex Ryan conspiracy theory of yours goes, it doesn't pass the smell test. Why would the Jets trade for Tebow if the head coach had something personal against him? And Elway hated him, too? All of Tebow's troubles are the fault of two people that hated him? You really need to step back and take a look at those two rationalizations.

But I do agree with you about the Eagles situation. It's the best fit for him, although it's still not Florida. Tebow's going to have to be a very efficient passer, much, much better than he ever did in Denver. Mark Sanchez completed 64% of his passes and had an 88.4 rating for the Eagles in 2014, and Nick Foles led the league in QB rating in 2013, and neither of those performances were considered good enough for Kelly to give them the reins on a permanent basis. Tebow will need to do A LOT more than clean up his throwing motion just a little. He's not going to be able to cover up his passing deficiencies by running the ball 10 or 15 times a game like he did in Denver as Kelly won't be calling designed QB runs. He's going to have to throw the ball effectively and run only when the opportunity presents itself, and he doesn't have a whole lot of great receiving weapons to work with. At one time, Kelly even went out of his way to say that Tim Tebow was not the type of quarterback he was looking for to run his offense, so it's hard to believe that Kelly will turn to him if all Tebow does is clean up a few minor details. He's clearly not looking for the old Tim Tebow.