Oly's 1st round analysis

[Oly]

Meh.

Seriously, that's all I've got. This has to have been the most boring draft on record.

I must say, though, that seeing who the Saints picked with the Hawks' pick in the Graham trade that Schneider isn't bemoaning the loss of that pick at all. A "meh" pick in a "meh" draft.

Good night!

[NorthHawk]

I think we could have used The Pat's pick, Malcolm Brown but I think the addition of Graham is worth it.
I was surprised that there were a number of players who were selected, but in some of the media evals they were thought to be 2nd or later ranked.
It just goes to show how teams look at players differently than media types.

[obiken]

Boring? Sure it was, for 3 reasons. 1. For all the BS, the Titans just took Mariota. 2. There is not a lot of playmakers to be had after 15. 3. We never had a pick, our pick was Graham.

[jshawaii22]

Boring.. yes... except someone please explain Denver trading UP for a druggie in Colorado? I just don't get that.

Schneider said that picks 12-60 were all grading about equal. After watching some of the video of the picks from 15 on, it sure looks like he was right.

js

[Zorn76]

It did have a meh feel to it for me as well. Naturally, if we had a 1st rd pick it woulda made it more interesting.

This year's class has some good depth at any number of positions. Looking forward to Fri and Sat for us to get going on this.

[RiverDog]

I'm surprised that the Titans took Mariota. I thought that Whisenhunt would get cold feet due to the fact that MM was a spread quarterback that almost never took snaps from under center and that his system does not highlight a running/option type of quarterback. There was a lot of talk about the Browns moving up to the #2 spot.

But trades within the top 5 are rare, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Johnny Football is probably breathing a little easier tonight.

[c_hawkbob]

What I think I think:

- The Bucs are morons, I can't remember a first round QB with off the field and maturity issues that has ever been worth the #1 pick. But maybe they got themselves a Ben Rothlessburger and he does at least square himself away to the degree necessary to make it. Too much risk IMO.

- The Titans did what they had to do. He's as the very least going to give them another Alex Smith and at best a bigger Russell Wilson. Trading down would have been the risk here.

- The Rams did well for themselves.

- The Browns won the day as I see it right now, beefing up both sides of the ball.

- The Chargers may well have given Rivers reason to re-sign, even if it does mean commuting to LA.

The rest I fell asleep for and have to read up some.

[NorthHawk]

I find it interesting that some of the picks were of players that many in the media hadn't considered 1st round picks.

In no particular order

Shaq Thompson.
Undeniably a great athlete, but is a an OLB, Safety, or RB?
I envision him as a Safety - the Jags version of Kam Chancellor, but we'll have to see how they play him.

Cedric Ogbuehi
Coming off ACL surgery and not expected to play this year.
A little bit of a gamble with the 21st pick considering there were some very good OTs left that are healthy.

Marcus Peters
His on field abilities are top 10, but can he hold it together off field (getting along with coaches and being on time for meetings) for the next 4 years?
It seems to me a little high at 18, but Andy Reid thinks his locker room is mature enough to help guide Peters development.

But that's the allure for me about the Draft. Nobody knows where the players will be taken.

[obiken]

You got more than I did CB. This the worst draft I have ever seen. Sorry, but I loved it as a fan, starting on Sat with 3 rounds and ending with 4 rounds on day 2. I don't like 4 days for the biggest non-event in sports. Dilfer is right, he said if it wasn't my job I would even watch it. Most of the big names will be out on the streets in 3 years and the later names will be the HOFamers in 3 years. I would settle for a HG the Center from Oregon, and the call it good for tomorrow!!

[NorthHawk]

Here's a link from CBS Sports regarding the remaining players and their ranks:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/drafttracker

Edit:
Click on Prospects for the next rated players.

[c_hawkbob]

One I forgot to mention is Bud Dupree to Pittsburgh almost made me cry. Great for him, and I'm a big fan, getting to play on one of the most storied defenses in the NFL, what a tradition to become a part of ... but I hate seeing such a great talent go to them, I hate them.

[RiverDog]

The Bucs are morons, I can't remember a first round QB with off the field and maturity issues that has ever been worth the #1 pick. But maybe they got themselves a Ben Rothlessburger and he does at least square himself away to the degree necessary to make it. Too much risk IMO.

One only has to look back a year to one of last year's first round draft picks for a QB with off field and maturity issues to find a team that took a risk on such a player and at least so far, have seen it blow up in their face.

The problem is that there's a huge drop off in talent once you get past the first two QB's, so there's not a lot of good options for teams that are QB starved, although the Bucs did have the option of taking Mariota. I guess they felt that Winston's character issues didn't pose as much of a risk as does the risk of Mariota not being able to adjust to a pro style offense.

[NorthHawk]

One I forgot to mention is Bud Dupree to Pittsburgh almost made me cry. Great for him, and I'm a big fan, getting to play on one of the most storied defenses in the NFL, what a tradition to become a part of ... but I hate seeing such a great talent go to them, I hate them.

Their Defense will look a little different this year and beyond without LeBeau, Polomalu, and others.
They might take a year or so to get any new concepts and find the right fits.
However, Defense is said to be easier to put together than Offense, and Tomlin is a Defensive HC, so I expect them to be solid right from the start.

[NorthHawk]

The Bucs are morons, I can't remember a first round QB with off the field and maturity issues that has ever been worth the #1 pick. But maybe they got themselves a Ben Rothlessburger and he does at least square himself away to the degree necessary to make it. Too much risk IMO.


One only has to look back a year to one of last year's first round draft picks for a QB with off field and maturity issues to find a team that took a risk on such a player and at least so far, have seen it blow up in their face.

The problem is that there's a huge drop off in talent once you get past the first two QB's, so there's not a lot of good options for teams that are QB starved, although the Bucs did have the option of taking Mariota. I guess they felt that Winston's character issues didn't pose as much of a risk as does the risk of Mariota not being able to adjust to a pro style offense.

I agree with the concern about Winston. Just last night he apparently had a twitter pic of him in front of a bowl of Crab legs.
The Bucs told him to take it down.

There is still the "leap of faith" that players will be able to transition to the NFL level of play - and that's the problem with drafting - there are no guarantees in any round.
I've heard and read good things about the QB's from Baylor and Colorado State as being good value picks on the 2nd day. Maybe one or both of them could be good players if they land in the right situation.
Also waiting for their chance is Hundley from UCLA and Mannion from Oregon State.
As is true with just about any player, in the right situation, they could perform far better than their draft position.

[c_hawkbob]

And I'm OK with that "leap of faith" ... later in the draft! The first pick is inordinately important to a franchise, it needs to be solid as a rock. If I were the GM I woulda taken Mariota and gone old school in giving him a year or two on the bench to learn the pro game.

[NorthHawk]

And I'm OK with that "leap of faith" ... later in the draft! The first pick is inordinately important to a franchise, it needs to be solid as a rock. If I were the GM I woulda taken Mariota and gone old school in giving him a year or two on the bench to learn the pro game.

With a number of 1st round misses from players that were considered "Can't miss" (like our own Aaron Curry), there are no guarantees even if you do all of your due diligence.
At some point a player has to be selected and it's a bigger decision when it's a QB who is expected to be the face of the franchise for the next decade.
I think this is especially true with the Bucs considering they have such a need for a starting QB to develop.
It's why I agree with you that Winston is a big risk.

[c_hawkbob]

Thing that makes it a bad pick in my opinion is that there was a viable alternative. If you absolutely have to have a franchise QB and there is only one with that kind of grade I can see maybe taking the chance, but this year there were two.

[NorthHawk]

Thing that makes it a bad pick in my opinion is that there was a viable alternative. If you absolutely have to have a franchise QB and there is only one with that kind of grade I can see maybe taking the chance, but this year there were two.

Good point - and some had Mariota as a better QB, too.

[Oly]

I think Tampa Bay is the worst place for Winston. He's not anywhere near Aaron Hernandez levels of dirtbaggery, but you saw what happened when Hernandez lived near his old crew. I think Winston needed to get the hell out of Florida and his old friends and to a locker room with a strong veteran presence that would keep him in line. Get him away from the beaches and the Florida nightlife and to some cold barren place in the midwest.

[RiverDog]

Good point - and some had Mariota as a better QB, too.

The ONLY knock on Mariota is the system he comes out of, but that apparently didn't bother Ken Whisenhunt, who clearly prefers a pocket passing quarterback ala Ben Worthlessburger and Kurt Warner. Winston does throw a better ball, but IMO there wasn't that big of a difference to justify the character risk, especially when the player is going to be expected to become the "Face of the Franchise." From all accounts, Mariota is a highly intelligent individual with superior character traits. Choosing to stay at home with his friends and relatives rather than attend that circus at the draft is a plus IMO.

[kalibane]

The differences go a little further beyond Winston throwing a better ball. I more or less agree with you Bob. I would not want to hang my career on Winston. He just seems incredibly immature in many ways. If I wouldn't be surprised the guy flames out in 3 years due to off field issues, doesn't seem worth the risk.

That being said... one of the biggest factors why Winston managed to stay ahead of Marriota was that they saw him make throws with anticipation, before receivers came out of their breaks and throwing them open. Andrew Luck is the only other QB (with prototypical size and arm strength) in the last 5-6 years that has been able to do that consistently coming out of college. Also the buzz is that as questionable as his off field decisions are, Winston is supposed to be a football junkie. Even during baseball season he was going to the football facility on his own and constantly loading up new game film to break down during his down time or traveling to road games. So his work ethic as far as the game goes doesn't seem to be an issue like say Manziel.

So while I agree with you Bob as far as wanting to stay away from him... I also understand the other side. Winston has some gifts that are rare for a guy coming out of college. Consider, Ryan Tannehill was taken #8 overall based purely on physical tools but not showing the actual skills he needed to play NFL QB. And he's considered more or less a good draft choice for the Dolphins. Winston has the tools and the skills... it's just a question whether his maturity, or lack thereof, will derail him. If it weren't for his immaturity he'd be the consensus #1 overall pick by a mile.

[Hawktawk]

Immature isn't the word to describe Winston. Spoiled, protected, enabled,lacking character, those words describe him. He knows exactly what hes doing when he rapes a girl while his homeboys film with their phones. They are expelled, he is not which makes a lot of sense. He knows he cant walk out of a store with crab legs but does anyway. Then he lies and says he was "hooked up" with them which the store disputes in the press after an exhaustive internal review. Then he shoots up his campus with a pellet gun and leaps on a table shouting vulgarities of a sexual nature IN SPITE OF WHAT HE ALREADY DID. Thats Winston's way of saying "in your face, I am above punishment". Then last night the crab legs tweet, again, neener neener, in your face I paid no price for being a complete waste of a human being the past 4 years. But hey hes a heck of a player. Hes been compared to rapistburgher and I think it might be a valid comparison on and off the field. Its still true if you can play ball you can get away with about anything besides murder and still keep your NFL check....

[NorthHawk]

There's a civil suit against him and if he loses, how will the NFL deal with it?
How will they deal with the evidence that is presented as well?
The media circus that would arise would be a huge distraction and could sink his career.

[kalibane]

Immature isn't the word to describe Winston. Spoiled, protected, enabled,lacking character, those words describe him. He knows exactly what hes doing when he rapes a girl while his homeboys film with their phones. They are expelled, he is not which makes a lot of sense. He knows he cant walk out of a store with crab legs but does anyway. Then he lies and says he was "hooked up" with them which the store disputes in the press after an exhaustive internal review. Then he shoots up his campus with a pellet gun and leaps on a table shouting vulgarities of a sexual nature IN SPITE OF WHAT HE ALREADY DID. Thats Winston's way of saying "in your face, I am above punishment". Then last night the crab legs tweet, again, neener neener, in your face I paid no price for being a complete waste of a human being the past 4 years. But hey hes a heck of a player. Hes been compared to rapistburgher and I think it might be a valid comparison on and off the field. Its still true if you can play ball you can get away with about anything besides murder and still keep your NFL check....

Meh... I'll preface this by saying I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if anything you posted is true. But I'd still say you made up your mind how you want to feel about him and then spun every public incident he's had in a way that benefits how you want to feel. It's just what you do. We really don't have enough facts.

Take your crab legs tweet for instance. You look at that and you say he's shoving it in our faces that he got away with it. On the other hand you see Richard Sherman participating in a joke about his Crabtree Rant and you say... Look how great Sherm is for not taking himself so seriously and joking about an embarrassing incident in his life.

I don't like Winston and would stay away because of all his red flags... but at the end of the day they are red flags not known facts.... yet.

[savvyman]

Immature isn't the word to describe Winston. Spoiled, protected, enabled,lacking character, those words describe him. He knows exactly what hes doing when he rapes a girl while his homeboys film with their phones. They are expelled, he is not which makes a lot of sense. He knows he cant walk out of a store with crab legs but does anyway. Then he lies and says he was "hooked up" with them which the store disputes in the press after an exhaustive internal review. Then he shoots up his campus with a pellet gun and leaps on a table shouting vulgarities of a sexual nature IN SPITE OF WHAT HE ALREADY DID. Thats Winston's way of saying "in your face, I am above punishment". Then last night the crab legs tweet, again, neener neener, in your face I paid no price for being a complete waste of a human being the past 4 years. But hey hes a heck of a player. Hes been compared to rapistburgher and I think it might be a valid comparison on and off the field. Its still true if you can play ball you can get away with about anything besides murder and still keep your NFL check....

Really? Did not know all of this but from what little I had seen of this guy I would not want to bet my franchise future on him. I also would have taken Mariotta with the first pick.

Speaking of Picks its finally the hawks turn soon. Good luck to those trying to forecast who the Hawks are going to pick - I think it would be easier to walk into a 1st grade classroom and forecast which kids were going to be the future doctor, Nurses, pilot, teacher, basketball player, construction worker, jail house inmate etc.. than to forecast who the hawks will take in the draft each year.