Cams Deal numbers are in

[Anthony]

5 years 103.8 mil, 60 mli guarantees, 22.5 mil signing, 7.5 mil roster, 1 mil salary total 31 mil for next season, He will make 67.6 in the first 3 years or 22.53 mil a year. Yeah lets keep waiting to sign Wilson longer

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12999 ... -extension

[RiverDog]

5 years 103.8 mil, 60 mli guarantees, 22.5 mil signing, 7.5 mil roster, 1 mil salary total 31 mil for next season, He will make 67.6 in the first 3 years or 22.53 mil a year. Yeah lets keep waiting to sign Wilson longer

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12999 ... -extension

We don't know any of the details of the negotiations with Wilson are, so it's a little hard to be critical of our FO for "waiting", if that's what they are doing.

But your point is well taken. The cost of signing franchise quarterbacks is going to be going up quite a bit more than the cost of living increase I get.

[Anthony]

We don't know any of the details of the negotiations with Wilson are, so it's a little hard to be critical of our FO for "waiting", if that's what they are doing.

But your point is well taken. The cost of signing franchise quarterbacks is going to be going up quite a bit more than the cost of living increase I get.

Agreed but the experts are saying it is 4 years 80 mil with guarantees and bonuses same as Sherman. Sherman had 40 mil guaranteed.

If you look at it I think the issue is years, look at the contract of the biggies the hawks have done, notice a pattern?

The Seattle Seahawks have signed Richard Sherman to a four-year, $56 million contract extension. With $40 million of the deal guaranteed,"

"All the numbers are in on Earl Thomas' contract extension. Here is how the four-year, $40.1 million deal for the Seattle Seahawks free safety ."

"Kam Chancellor signed a 4 year, $28,002,008 contract with the Seattle Seahawks, including a $5,000,000 signing bonus, $7,825,000 guaranteed,"

They do not want to commit to anyone for more than 4 years.

Heck even Lynch was only 3 years, now years/age might have something to do with it.

"Seahawks signed RB Marshawn Lynch to a new three-year, $31 million contract. Lynch's 2015 earnings will be $12 million -- a $7.5 million signing bonus and"


Seems the Hawks do not like signing anyone to more than 4 years.

Right now if the 4 years 80 mil with 40 mil guaranteed is right they are 1 year and 20 mil off which is all on the OF at this point since the bar has been set.

[NorthHawk]

Quarterbacks are a little different, though as they can often play at the same high level into their mid 30''s so a longer term might be a consideration.
That magic number of 30 seems to often fit DBs like it does RBs especially if they are involved in a lot of tackles like our Safeties.

[c_hawkbob]

5 years 103.8 mil, 60 mli guarantees, 22.5 mil signing, 7.5 mil roster, 1 mil salary total 31 mil for next season, He will make 67.6 in the first 3 years or 22.53 mil a year. Yeah lets keep waiting to sign Wilson longer

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12999 ... -extension

Exactly my thought Anthony. Wilson's #s go up with every signing like this. Especially a lesser QB like Cam (there is no way we can pay Russ less than Cam got) ... it doesn't matter where the negotiations with Russ currently are other than they aren't done and the longer it takes the higher they go.

[Anthony]

Quarterbacks are a little different, though as they can often play at the same high level into their mid 30''s so a longer term might be a consideration.
That magic number of 30 seems to often fit DBs like it does RBs especially if they are involved in a lot of tackles like our Safeties.

I agree but that does not mean the FO agrees

[HumanCockroach]

Don't any issue w/ 4 year deals for young players. It lowers the cost while allowing said players to hit it big a second time, ultimately, if I was Wilson I would LOVE a four year deal, as you just pointed out, franchise QB cost is only going ONE way, and that is up, why any player of that caliber would WANT a seven or so deal us beyond me, unless they don't believe they can continue to perform at a high level, or stay relatively healthy, there is no financial or businesses reason to want a longer term deal.

[jshawaii22]

5 years 103.8 mil, 60 mli guarantees, 22.5 mil signing, 7.5 mil roster, 1 mil salary total 31 mil for next season, He will make 67.6 in the first 3 years or 22.53 mil a year. Yeah lets keep waiting to sign Wilson longer

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12999 ... -extension

Anthony, If simply waiting longer always is bad is true, every QB contract since Joe Flacco would be automatically higher then the last. It just doesn't work that way, Cam was drafted one year before and as a #1, too, so he should get signed to his extension before Russell.

To me, I don't see Carolina being raked over the coals for this deal. It seems pretty in line. I don't see Russell going over 21 or 22m a year.

js

[NorthHawk]

A longer term contract with more guaranteed money might be attractive.
Something like a 7 year 150 million contract with 100 million guaranteed.
The average per year is a little over 14million/year, and Wilson gets the financial security he needs.

[jshawaii22]

I think it' opposite in that Russell a shorter deal, Probably looking for 4 years @ 110m or something. I think the team wants 6 years. Knowing he has a baseball agent makes me wonder if he's not going for 100% guaranteed, too.

js

[Anthony]

Anthony, If simply waiting longer always is bad is true, every QB contract since Joe Flacco would be automatically higher then the last. It just doesn't work that way, Cam was drafted one year before and as a #1, too, so he should get signed to his extension before Russell.

To me, I don't see Carolina being raked over the coals for this deal. It seems pretty in line. I don't see Russell going over 21 or 22m a year.

js

Ahh that is more than what has been reported to have been offered, so not sure what your point is.

[Anthony]

Don't any issue w/ 4 year deals for young players. It lowers the cost while allowing said players to hit it big a second time, ultimately, if I was Wilson I would LOVE a four year deal, as you just pointed out, franchise QB cost is only going ONE way, and that is up, why any player of that caliber would WANT a seven or so deal us beyond me, unless they don't believe they can continue to perform at a high level, or stay relatively healthy, there is no financial or businesses reason to want a longer term deal.

That's the way you see it and maybe the FO but maybe not the way Wilson sees it, as no other top QB has been signed to only 4 years on their first contract after their rookie deal.

[NorthHawk]

Yah, the guaranteed portion could very well be the key to any agreement.
A longer contract could mean a larger guarantee even if the APY (average per year) salary is a little lower.

[Anthony]

I think it' opposite in that Russell a shorter deal, Probably looking for 4 years @ 110m or something. I think the team wants 6 years. Knowing he has a baseball agent makes me wonder if he's not going for 100% guaranteed, too.

js

its already been reported the team offered 4 years 80 mil, so yeah no.

[NorthHawk]

The 4 year offer if true was an opening offer.
It doesn't mean they are wedded to it.

[HumanCockroach]

Something tells me that has a Hell of a lot more to do with the team not player. The longer the deal, the more of a discount the TEAM receives at the end of the contract ie QB is "underpayed" the last several years as the market continues to go UP. Teams want as many years as possible in regards to QBS, assuming players do to, is a HUGE stretch on your part.no one knows what Wilson wants, and yes that indeed does include you.

[mykc14]

Ahh that is more than what has been reported to have been offered, so not sure what your point is.

I don't get why you are always so intrigued by 'what has been reported.' Who cares? I don't believe much of what the 'experts' report as far as numbers and contract extensions and stuff like that goes. I wouldn't be surprised at all of thats close to where the negotiations started (4 years 80 mil) but that is far from us just offering that and standing pat.

[mykc14]

Exactly my thought Anthony. Wilson's #s go up with every signing like this. Especially a lesser QB like Cam (there is no way we can pay Russ less than Cam got) ... it doesn't matter where the negotiations with Russ currently are other than they aren't done and the longer it takes the higher they go.

I didn't think that Tannehill's extension did much to his contract but this one does put a little pressure on the FO, IMO. I am not really surprised by the number but really this is what I thought the Hawks could have gotten RW for but now they probably have to go over it. The question becomes by how much. If we would have signed RW to that same contract I would have been happy. This extension may have cost us a million or so a year.

[NorthHawk]

I think it (Cam's contract) emphasizes the importance of the Guaranteed portion even more.
I'm sure he's well aware of the nature of the game and how injuries can end or limit careers.

Picking numbers out of the air for discussion purposes:
He could sign a 4 year 100 million dollar contract, but if the guaranteed part is only 10 million it's not that great.
However, if he signed a 7 year deal worth 150 million with 100 million guaranteed, it could be good for both sides.

In any event I doubt anyone on this forum has a pipeline to what was actually offered or what each position currently is, so we are all guessing.

[c_hawkbob]

IMO if we'd offered this contract (Cam's) to Russ a month ago he'd have signed it. Now the contract he signs is going to have to beat it.

[mykc14]

IMO if we'd offered this contract (Cam's) to Russ a month ago he'd have signed it. Now the contract he signs is going to have to beat it.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Not now.

[HumanCockroach]

Hell, that is how contracts go. For all any of us know, Wilson and his agent refused to sign a similar contract already. If I was negotiating something like that I wouldn't be in a hurry until I saw what Cam, Tannehill, Luck received. It sets the market, much the way rookie first round picks used to jockey to see what they could get.

[c_hawkbob]

Of course that's how contracts go, it's not like we're saying any different, the point is that while we wait to get a deal done the bottom line keeps ratcheting up with every signing. That fact was being disputed in this thread.

It's also why it would be unimaginable for this front office to allow these negotiations to get to next season with the f-tag as their "safety net" as has been suggested (in the media) as a possibility.

[HumanCockroach]

True, something I am sure Wilson and his agent are aware of, so why jump to sign?

[NorthHawk]

I think that's where the guaranteed money comes in.
You can offer a lesser contract with a higher guarantee and both sides can walk away satisfied.

[c_hawkbob]

True, something I am sure Wilson and his agent are aware of, so why jump to sign?

There is no incentive for Russ to sign what (if reports are accurate, and I doubt that they are) would amount to a second tier deal. The leverage is all his in these negotiations.

[c_hawkbob]

I think that's where the guaranteed money comes in.
You can offer a lesser contract with a higher guarantee and both sides can walk away satisfied.

Totally agree. Which is why I was (and remain) in favor of a fully guaranteed contract. To hell with the push back from the other owners.

[Seahawks4Ever]

The fact that Cam was a #1 pick and RW only a #rd. rd. pick means absolutely NOTHING going into their second contracts. Under that way of thinking the Pats would have said to Brady "hey, it don't matter you played in 2 out of the last 3 Super Bowls, you were only a 6th. rd. draft choice and that's where we start the negotiations".

Unless Wilson is offered a better contract than Newton the Hawks are essentially LOWBALLING Russell, and it stinks. By continuing to lowball RW John & Pete, despite what they say to the press, don't really consider him to be a "franchise" QB. Because if they did consider him to be a franchise QB they wouldn't be obfusticating about paying him like a franchise QB.

It seems as if Schneider thought he was always going to be able to pay Wilson peanuts, he found money to pay everyone else now he says he can't pay RW because he has to pay Wagner.

Then you got M. Bennett, he wants to be paid more, which team mate is going to be asked to take a pay cut so that Bennett can have his raise??

This is why it is hard to put together a dynasty in this era, there a too many prima donnas that think they are the only ones responsible for the team's success.

[NorthHawk]

Please provide a link to the contract offered Wilson. All we have is a media report and who knows how accurate they are.
You have no idea if it was "lowballing" or if it was in fact a good opening offer and Wilson and his agent decided to wait it out.
The FT for QBs should be about 20 million next year and about 25 the year after.
If Wilson should choose to go the FT route for 2 years, he would be guaranteed about 45 million over that period.

[Anthony]

Things might be getting ready to get ugly if you believe this post

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dgMbP?utm_ ... e-seahawks

"It does not matter whether or not you think Wilson is an elite quarterback. For Carroll and Schneider, it is core to their belief that you can win without one. Ignore that if you must, but it plays a key role in this discussion. "


If true it has been my biggest concern this whole off season and given they already tried it without a great QB and failed I am not sure I get were this is coming from.

[HumanCockroach]

If true it has been my biggest concern this whole off season and given they already tried it without a great QB and failed I am not sure I get were this is coming from

Lol.

[c_hawkbob]

Things might be getting ready to get ugly if you believe this post

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dgMbP?utm_ ... e-seahawks

"It does not matter whether or not you think Wilson is an elite quarterback. For Carroll and Schneider, it is core to their belief that you can win without one. Ignore that if you must, but it plays a key role in this discussion. "


If true it has been my biggest concern this whole off season and given they already tried it without a great QB and failed I am not sure I get were this is coming from.

No offense, but that's just lame. There is no way this an either/or thing with Schneider and Wilson. Not even close.

[kalibane]

In the last 4 months we've had about 20 different "well sourced" reports claiming everything from a deal being imminent to Wilson is willing to go to Free Agency. The structure of the deal is reportedly everything from an unprecedented fully guaranteed deal that would be the envy of the league to a complete lowball offer that would be an insult to Wilson.

If there is one thing people should have learned by now it's to not pay attention to any of this garbage because clearly no one really knows where things are. Here's what I know regarding these supposed concerns:

This front office has consistently been proactive in extending players that they feel are part of the core of the team whether it was Max Unger, Marshawn Lynch, Richard Sherman or KJ Wright. It seems pretty against character to all of a sudden buck that trend with their QB when there are no viable options to replace him.

If they value the Running Game and defense over the QB then why did they keep trading draft choices/signing big FA deals for the right to see if they could make Clipboard Jesus and Matt Flynn... better yet why did they fly out to try and catch Peyton Manning before he signed with Denver when they could have just rolled with Hass or TJack who were perfectly serviceable to play the role of a caretaker QB.

Also why did they structure Marshawn Lynch's deal so they could get rid of him and show a reluctance to give him more money that he clearly wants more and is the heart and soul of the running game.

Lastly... if Pete Carroll really thinks he can win without a QB then why did he consistently recruit the top QB prospects in the country when he was at USC?

You can stress yourself out about all this nonsense if you want to but at the end of the day that's all your doing... stressing yourself out over nonsense.

[Anthony]

No offense, but that's just lame. There is no way this an either/or thing with Schneider and Wilson. Not even close.

No offense taken I did say if you believe this, I do not believe all of it but some of it might be true specifically the part were they feel they can do without a great QB

[NorthHawk]

Pete has said and has demonstrated that he wants a "Point Guard" at QB - We can see that in some of the guys he has brought in like Pryor last year. Daniels is another of those types.

He also wants a QB who can make the big play at key moments.
Who else in the NFL has those qualities - and would they ever come available? I seriously doubt it.
Franchise QBs are the rarest of commodities in the NFL and teams don't just let them go because it doesn't match their philosophy.
I can't think of the last time a Franchise QB didn't sign a 2nd contract.

GMs eventually move on so how would a President of Football Operations or Owner of another team look at JS if he let Wilson go? Would he ever get serious consideration for another job as a GM if he was known as the guy who let his Franchise QB go because it conflicted with his philosophy and then couldn't find a suitable replacement afterward?
Sure, Pete and John might be considered mavericks in some circles, but they aren't stupid and they don't want to spend the rest of their careers trying to find the next Franchise QB for this team.

[Anthony]

Pete has said and has demonstrated that he wants a "Point Guard" at QB - We can see that in some of the guys he has brought in like Pryor last year. Daniels is another of those types.

He also wants a QB who can make the big play at key moments.
Who else in the NFL has those qualities - and would they ever come available? I seriously doubt it.
Franchise QBs are the rarest of commodities in the NFL and teams don't just let them go because it doesn't match their philosophy.
I can't think of the last time a Franchise QB didn't sign a 2nd contract.

GMs eventually move on so how would a President of Football Operations or Owner of another team look at JS if he let Wilson go? Would he ever get serious consideration for another job as a GM if he was known as the guy who let his Franchise QB go because it conflicted with his philosophy and then couldn't find a suitable replacement afterward?
Sure, Pete and John might be considered mavericks in some circles, but they aren't stupid and they don't want to spend the rest of their careers trying to find the next Franchise QB for this team.

Al true but if they think nay QB would do and can prove it it would also increase their marketability. The question is, if this is true is it worth the risk to them?

[Seahawks4Ever]

The "proof" that John & Pete are low balling Russell Wilson is the fact that if they weren't he would have been signed by now.

We all know that Russell is the ultimate "team" player so I don't think him and his agent are asking for something that is "out of line" with what other QB's in his situation are being paid, especially because these other QB's have not had the success that Wilson has had.

Let's be honest, Russell Wilson out played his contract in his rookie year and has out played every season since then. Now, in the last week both Wilson's agent and Wilson himself has felt the need to tell the press that he has "no problem" playing out his contract. Russell and his agent wouldn't have felt the need to say that to the press if the Seahawks and Wilson were not very far apart and the Seahawks so far were not budging.

I firmly believe that both Pete and John thought that Russell was such a great "team" guy that he would accept a very low "team friendly" bargain basement deal. It is an insult to what RW has achieved to expect him to accept less than other QB's such as Tannehil, Kaepernick, Dalton, and now Cam Newton are being paid. If the Seahawks offer was even in the ball park of what those other guys are being paid I believe Wilson would have resigned by now. The "proof" that the Seahawks are offering less, probably a lot less than the above mentioned QB's is that so far a new deal for Wilson hasn't been completed.

Wake up and smell the coffee, you don't have to read between the lines, Pete has said many times his offense doesn't need a quarterback to 'win" games. That is Petes way of saying that he doesn't consider Russell to be a franchise quarterback the way we all define what a franchise quarterback is.

Russell must feel like his head coach has kicked him in the teeth and doesn't have his back. Pete should right a new book, "How to ruin the chemistry of a team that could have won forever". First bringing in Mr. Team Cancer Percy Harvin and now possibly driving the best QB our team has ever had out the door.

It is plain that if the Hawks won't pay RW what the Tannehils and Newtons are getting they such as heck won't be willing to pay him Franchise Tag money. In that case I expect the Hawks to trade Wilson or do a sign and trade deal. Don't under estimate Petes ego getting in the way of what is best for the team.

[c_hawkbob]

Your "proof" isn't proof of anything until training camp starts (that's training camp, not mini camps). Even then it's more of a solid indication than "proof".

I'm anxious to see a deal get done because I hate seeing the price keep going up, not because I think a deal won't get done. I can't even think in that direction until training camp.

[mykc14]

It is plain that if the Hawks won't pay RW what the Tannehils and Newtons are getting they such as heck won't be willing to pay him Franchise Tag money. In that case I expect the Hawks to trade Wilson or do a sign and trade deal. Don't under estimate Petes ego getting in the way of what is best for the team.

Sounds like your real issue is with Pete and not whether or not the Hawks will be able to sign Wilson.

[mykc14]

The "proof" that John & Pete are low balling Russell Wilson is the fact that if they weren't he would have been signed by now.

Let's be honest, Russell Wilson out played his contract in his rookie year and has out played every season since then. Now, in the last week both Wilson's agent and Wilson himself has felt the need to tell the press that he has "no problem" playing out his contract. Russell and his agent wouldn't have felt the need to say that to the press if the Seahawks and Wilson were not very far apart and the Seahawks so far were not budging.

RW was asked direct questions about his contract and the negotiations. He answered. He didn't hold a press conference or anything like that. If they were far apart, as you suggest, why would Russell's camp feel the need to say anything?