STORMIE DANIELS

[Hawktawk]

Ivanka is a complete phony who lets daddy treat women like a piece of meat and daddy likes to pat her on the butt etc. He once told David Stern if she wasn't his daughter he'd be dating her and both Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal have said that he told them they were "beautiful like Ivanka" Very weird dynamic.

Trump Jr is a colluding punk who just got divorced for screwing around repeatedly on his beautiful wife Tiffany and comes up with even more retarded tweets than Dad. Melania is pathetic to sit around and put up with this crap. Its no surprise they have separate bedrooms as im certain she has no interest whatsoever in anything having to do with him.

Eric and Barron who is too young for us to know the type of person he is seem to be the only semi normal people in the immediate family. And Trump's fortune has been built on the backs of people he has shafted starting with Trump Taj mahal where he backrupted dozens of subcontractors who he has STILL NEVER PAID A DIME and somehow walked away with a fat management contract and a boeing 727. His old man bailed him out several times during his 6 bankruptcies and its becoming more and more clear its been Russian Oligarchs funding him the last 20 years since american banks will not lend him money to this day.Jr told a golf magazine writer in 2012 in response to a question how they could keep building golf resorts (many of which lose money)during the economic downturn "we have a lot of money coming in from Russia. Jr denies having said it.......

I wouldnt want this man within a mile of my family. Its a disgusting thing they are infesting the white house.

[RiverDog]

Do you go by actions or words, Riverdog? I put much more weight on actions.

Of course I put more weight on actions. But that doesn't mean that I ignore words, either. My wife's first husband verbally abused her, called her names, used to make remarks in front of her of all the women he'd like to sleep with, and so on. She claims that she almost would have preferred physical abuse over the verbal remarks she had to endure.

Having to live with a cheating spouse is pure hell. I've been there myself. There's nothing more hurtful to either a man or a woman, and it's a big motivating factor in many homicides.

Although I think Hawktalk goes way over the top about his characterization of the rest of Trump's family, I'm right there with him regarding DJT. I wouldn't trust that guy with my chewing gum, let alone with my daughter.

[c_hawkbob]

Jeezus Asea, did you never watch or listen to Howard Stern? Trump's actions, and the things that come out of that mans face are nothing short of disgusting.

[RiverDog]

Jeezus Asea, did you never watch or listen to Howard Stern? Trump's actions, and the things that come out of that mans face are nothing short of disgusting.

Good analogy with Howard Stern. Donald Trump is a spoiled rich kid that never had to "work" for the affection of a woman. He's always been able to buy whatever it takes to float his boat or had gold digging women that wanted him for his money/fame. Unlike most of us, he hasn't had to learn any social skills to get by.

Not a lot different from the Kennedys in that regard, except that the Kennedys weren't as vulgar and didn't have Twitter accounts.

[Aseahawkfan]

Jeezus Asea, did you never watch or listen to Howard Stern? Trump's actions, and the things that come out of that mans face are nothing short of disgusting.

No. Why would I listen to Howard Stern where Trump is trying to play a cool guy to Stern's audience? Of course he's going to say some disgusting things. Just like if you listened to a meeting with Trump talking to The Pope, he'd sound like a decent man. The guy plays to the crowd he's dealing with, which is why he says some of the stupid crap he says. A salesman does that.

What actions are so disgusting? I want to hear specific actions other than the known banging around, which I could find on a bunch of people, likely people you have voted for. Does he drink? Does he do drugs? Does he not ensure his children are taken care? Has he not donated millions to charity? Has he helped a ton of people make money?

C-bob, you are one of the people I've seen on here that judges the man almost completely based on his bombastic BS talk or a handful of notable stories on his negative behavior completely ignoring all the quality things he's done for people and ignoring all the traits that make him the successful man he is.

[Aseahawkfan]

Good analogy with Howard Stern. Donald Trump is a spoiled rich kid that never had to "work" for the affection of a woman. He's always been able to buy whatever it takes to float his boat or had gold digging women that wanted him for his money/fame. Unlike most of us, he hasn't had to learn any social skills to get by.

Not a lot different from the Kennedys in that regard, except that the Kennedys weren't as vulgar and didn't have Twitter accounts.

So this guy doesn't work hard? He hasn't built the Trump name up farther than his father? He hasn't made sure all his children are well-raised? He's just some spoiled rich kid that didn't do anything but use his daddy's money on drugs, women, and screwing around like Paris Hilton?

Trump would work the vast majority of people into the ground. He has an amazing work ethic. He would work the majority of Kennedy's into the ground.

I get it. You don't like "spoiled" rich kids. And C-bob's bought into every negative Trump story sold to him as did Hawktawk. And Trump has done himself no favors with twittering and bombastic, inflammatory talk. But he's far less of a villain than the media has portrayed and people like yourself, c-bob and hawktawk believe. I've followed the guy more than any of you over the years and it's why I don't see him in the same fashion. The first I've heard of Trump being a bigot was when he ran for president. Media sold that hard as did the Democrats. Prior to that, he was doing business with and interacting with all manner of people of varying backgrounds from Muslim to Latin to black. He didn't much care. He always spoke well of them and was friendly with them. He supported organizations like the NAACP and black leaders in New York. He was always a womanizer, so that part was known to me. He never much involved himself in drugs, drinking, and the like. He seemed to have a standard he expected of his children. He chose women that would raise them to that standard and put a good face on the Trump name.

Then again my knowledge of him is why I didn't vote for him. I didn't think he'd make a good president. I didn't think he would even win given his background with women which is coming back to haunt him. He's a corporate leader used to getting his way. Those people usually don't work well as president. You have to be a politician able to manipulate the Washington machine to be a good president. I don't think he has the patience or political acumen for it. The main thing he's good at it negotiation. He might negotiate some quality deals. We will see. He's woefully out of his element and is finding out his power is very limited as President. I imagine he's losing his mind in the oval office, literally and figuratively.

[Aseahawkfan]

Ivanka is a complete phony who lets daddy treat women like a piece of meat and daddy likes to pat her on the butt etc. He once told David Stern if she wasn't his daughter he'd be dating her and both Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal have said that he told them they were "beautiful like Ivanka" Very weird dynamic.

Trump Jr is a colluding punk who just got divorced for screwing around repeatedly on his beautiful wife Tiffany and comes up with even more retarded tweets than Dad. Melania is pathetic to sit around and put up with this crap. Its no surprise they have separate bedrooms as im certain she has no interest whatsoever in anything having to do with him.

Eric and Barron who is too young for us to know the type of person he is seem to be the only semi normal people in the immediate family. And Trump's fortune has been built on the backs of people he has shafted starting with Trump Taj mahal where he backrupted dozens of subcontractors who he has STILL NEVER PAID A DIME and somehow walked away with a fat management contract and a boeing 727. His old man bailed him out several times during his 6 bankruptcies and its becoming more and more clear its been Russian Oligarchs funding him the last 20 years since american banks will not lend him money to this day.Jr told a golf magazine writer in 2012 in response to a question how they could keep building golf resorts (many of which lose money)during the economic downturn "we have a lot of money coming in from Russia. Jr denies having said it.......

I wouldnt want this man within a mile of my family. Its a disgusting thing they are infesting the white house.

You know what the media sold you about Trump. That's about it. You didn't even consider the man prior to his presidential run. You've consumed every story they put out.

As far as the subcontractors, that happens every single time the economy collapses. You going to hate everyone that went bankrupt during property collapses and used bankruptcy to protect their businesses? You'd be hating a lot of people. Walt Disney went bankrupt seven times building Disney. Trump's father didn't have the money to bail his son out save very early on his business life. I'd like to see where you found this information about Trump's dad? I know he made the kid a loan to start his business, but not sure where you're getting the bailout information. Or that just you're assumption fueled by your Trump hate?

[RiverDog]

So this guy doesn't work hard? He hasn't built the Trump name up farther than his father?

You didn't read what I wrote. Here's what I said: Donald Trump is a spoiled rich kid that never had to "work" for the affection of a woman.

That's wholly different than building a business empire. What I am suggesting is that Donald Trump, due to his fame and fortune giving him advantages in courtship that not many of us have enjoyed, never had to learn how to behave around women or concentrate on refining personality traits that endear women to us men. That explains how a man in his 50's with several daughters could brag about grabbing women by the p###y. I was speaking about his social skills, not his work ethic.

And yes, I'll admit that I have a bit of a thing against spoiled rich kids and the gold digging, Barbie doll women that they tend to attract.

[Aseahawkfan]

We're never going to see Trump the same way. Some of you hate him no matter what he does. Some people will like him no matter what he does. I see the man I've known for 30 or so years. None of it surprises me.

Don't think he's a racist save in that New York "stay with your own" and "Jews make the best accountants" type of way meaning he has no agenda to harm or limit what people do based on race. He's good helping people succeed.

I already knew he was a womanizer. Nothing there surprises me.

I think he's a good father that ensures all his children keep their noses clean and have access to everything they require to be highly successful.I think he expects his children to be successful. I think he pushes them to be.

As far as all the crap he says to crowds, he's a salesman. He's playing to a crowd. He likely doesn't even remember half the stuff he says because he says it in the moment to work the crowd and the sale. So whenever one is fretting over Trump's words, I think of him working his crowd or playing himself up to whoever he is talking to at the time. He's been doing that for all the years I've followed him.

Knew he was crass and spoke in a direct fashion.

I don't think he's some kind of Russian spy or engaged in any collusion or strange deals other than what is standard in Washington politics. Same stuff you would see with nearly any candidate playing in the dirty water of politics and business.

As far as his bankruptcies, he's survived where many have not. I keep hearing guys like hawktawk commenting on Trump's bankruptcies like that's not business as usual in America. Happens all the time during down economic periods. When oil dropped, a bunch of businesses went bankrupt, some completely out of business and some protected from creditors under a restructuring plan. Happens in every industry. Not sure why Hawktawk considers Trump as some unique figure in this regard other than he doesn't follow business very closely.

I feel like one of the few people that is not surprised at Trump. I think the only surprise is his Twittering. Never thought he would Twitter like some teenage girl. As far as the rest, that's Trump being Trump. He's the same man he's always been save that the entire world is watching and picking sides, just like they do nearly every election.

I'm tired of Washington DC myself. This country is on cruise control to being a cesspool as far as I'm concerned. Trump won't stop that. Sanders won't stop it. No one will until we collapse under the weight of selfish policies, corporate lobbying, lack of identity, lack of quality values, and the general malaise of the digital generation fully addicted to electronic stimulation that allows them to tune out hoping that some leader will step up to make everything alright. This feels like the end of Rome and an America that will exist in name only as a military-corporate nation of addicted worker drones high on cheap, unhealthy, tasty food and easily accessed, digital entertainment meant to keep their minds stimulated and passive.

[RiverDog]

There's degrees of racism. To one degree or another, we are all racists. But Trump more so than most of us. IMO his "many groups" comments that marginalized the participation of the KKK and neo Nazis at Charlottesville were indicative of his racism. I also feel that his hysteria about immigration is a product of his racism or bias against any group that doesn't look or act in the same manner that he does.

In almost all situations, a known womanizer that has multiple extramarital affairs is not a good parent. It may or may not have an affect on the children, but extramarital affairs puts a lot of pressure on all members of the family. Trump's womanizing lowered the chances of successfully raising his family.

I don't "hate" Trump the way others do. I don't disapprove of his politics near as much as I disapprove of the man. I do not think he is a good leader, he's definetly not a good Commander in Chief, and not a good role model.

[Aseahawkfan]

There's degrees of racism. To one degree or another, we are all racists. But Trump more so than most of us. IMO his "many groups" comments that marginalized the participation of the KKK and neo Nazis at Charlottesville were indicative of his racism. I also feel that his hysteria about immigration is a product of his racism or bias against any group that doesn't look or act in the same manner that he does.

I can understand you're thinking on this one as you haven't followed Trump very long. So to you this is Trump.

I see something different. I see a salesman tapping into the immigration angst of the right for votes and support. He's trying to maintain his support with that group even if it means saying idiotic things. He's about selling a message that helps him succeed.

I never heard Trump speak much about immigration until he decided to run for president. He used Obama-hate as a springboard to garner support with the right wing. Just as he tapped into Hilary-hate to garner more support from the right. Then switched to jobs in the Rust Belt. Then to immigration when in the southern and border states. To me this is Trump using his sales skill to tap into a broader feeling with the voting base he was pursuing. He used Bannon and has now discarded him now that he is no longer necessary. He did the same with Ann Coulter.

While you ponder his immigration stance, I ask you to wonder at why his so called "Muslim Ban" didn't target any of the wealthy Arab nations he does business with. They were conveniently pushed off the list. You notice he did not speak against any of the seriously powerful Arab/Muslim nations we are friends with. He targeted a particular group of nations that are commonly targeted by the US by most administrations. He is also most focused on Latin America. He is doing this mainly to keep a promise to his anti-immigration people to maintain support for the next election should he make it that far.

Trump won by mobilizing and energizing a powerful part of the farther right. He did it with purpose, intelligence, and determination. How much of it he truly believes himself I cannot say because he is a chameleon salesman that will morph into whatever type of person he thinks will get the best response.

In almost all situations, a known womanizer that has multiple extramarital affairs is not a good parent. It may or may not have an affect on the children, but extramarital affairs puts a lot of pressure on all members of the family. Trump's womanizing lowered the chances of successfully raising his family.

I used to think this way, specifically because what kind of example can you set if you mistreat the mother of your children. Given I've seen far too many examples of a father or mother being a good parent, while not necessarily a good spouse to make me think to the contrary. Faithless parents are not usually bad for the family because of their faithlessness, they are usually bad because they extend the finances of the family beyond what they can afford when they take on the burden of a new relationship and possibly family. Trump doesn't have that problem. When you have enough money, you can be a good parent even while philandering.

I don't know how you would measure good parenting. But by most metrics we could track, Trump's taken good care of his children. Prior to his running for office, you don't see Ivanka doing sex tapes or Donald Jr. getting hit for drugs or something similar. I guess he inherited a bit of his father's philandering ways. I don't expect you to approve of it as you sound like my buddy that despises cheating. I don't think much of it myself. As far as from an empirical evidence perspective, Trump has been at least an above average father to his children as far as avoiding the pitfalls of wealth and privilege and instilling in them a quality work ethic.

I don't "hate" Trump the way others do. I don't disapprove of his politics near as much as I disapprove of the man. I do not think he is a good leader, he's definetly not a good Commander in Chief, and not a good role model.

I don't like him as a president because he's a salesman, meaning a professional liar and truth stretcher, one of the best. He's a master of playing crowds and manipulating people to do what he wants. He taps into their fears and wants and sells them he can fix them or provide them some means to make it all better. We have enough lawyers and politicians as president because they're trained speakers. A salesman is a trained speaker without a background in law or politics.

At some point we need someone in office that isn't there just because he's best speaker and crowd manipulator at a given time in an election. At some point we need someone who Americans will likely never vote for that tells them the truth of what must be done to put this nation right economically and to ensure the Constitution as intended is instituted regardless of whether it makes the right or left happy. All we get at this point are lawyers and politicians trained as crowd manipulation and now a salesman who proved better at it than this last crop of lawyers and politicians.

[RiverDog]

I don't know how you would measure good parenting. But by most metrics we could track, Trump's taken good care of his children. Prior to his running for office, you don't see Ivanka doing sex tapes or Donald Jr. getting hit for drugs or something similar. I guess he inherited a bit of his father's philandering ways. I don't expect you to approve of it as you sound like my buddy that despises cheating. I don't think much of it myself. As far as from an empirical evidence perspective, Trump has been at least an above average father to his children as far as avoiding the pitfalls of wealth and privilege and instilling in them a quality work ethic.

I'm not saying that he hasn't. All I am saying is that his constant womanizing put pressure on the family unit as a whole and lowered the chance of having a successful outcome in the raising of his offspring. Some kids, perhaps most, may not be affected by their parent's behavior, but there are others that may not be born with the same emotional stability as others and require a solid role model. Bill Clinton's daughter turned out great, but I would like to think that you wouldn't hold Slick Willy up as your Father of the Year simply because his end result was positive.

[Aseahawkfan]

I am going to laugh so hard if Trump if gets taken down by a pornstar. So damn hard even as I feel embarrassed for my nation. This will be the most hilarious fall from the presidency in history if it happens. It's going to beat the cigar jokes after Clinton's impeachment.

[RiverDog]

I am going to laugh so hard if Trump if gets taken down by a pornstar. So damn hard even as I feel embarrassed for my nation. This will be the most hilarious fall from the presidency in history if it happens. It's going to beat the cigar jokes after Clinton's impeachment.

Yea, it's been an entertaining 1.5 years. Cbob put it best when he said that this administration is going to resemble a SNL skit. I can't remember such a bizare situation. The only administration that even comes close is Jimmy Carter's, a sitcom based on him and his lifestyle ("Carter Country"), defending himself against a killer rabbit, had his brother get out and take a leak on a freeway in a traffic jam, an interview in Playboy, all while he was in office. But Trump takes the cake. He's a cartoonist's dream come true.

I am convinced that Trump is lying his ass off and that the$130K hush money payment to Stormy Daniels is a clear campaign law violation, perhaps to the level of a criminal offense. If it were not for what we were taught by the Democrats back in 1999, that perjury is not an impeachable offense so long as the root cause of it was sex, I would be four square behind an impeachment proceeding against Trump.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yea, it's been an entertaining 1.5 years. Cbob put it best when he said that this administration is going to resemble a SNL skit. I can't remember such a bizare situation. The only administration that even comes close is Jimmy Carter's, a sitcom based on him and his lifestyle ("Carter Country"), defending himself against a killer rabbit, had his brother get out and take a leak on a freeway in a traffic jam, an interview in Playboy, all while he was in office. But Trump takes the cake. He's a cartoonist's dream come true.

I am convinced that Trump is lying his ass off and that the$130K hush money payment to Stormy Daniels is a clear campaign law violation, perhaps to the level of a criminal offense. If it were not for what we were taught by the Democrats back in 1999, that perjury is not an impeachable offense so long as the root cause of it was sex, I would be four square behind an impeachment proceeding against Trump.

Of course he's lying. Being able to lie convincingly or at least prevaricate in an effective manner is a requirement of the job. He lied on his campaign. He lied on reality show. He lies in boardrooms and when making sales. Lying is part of selling and that's what he knows and has been doing for years. It's what politicians, lawyers, and just about everyone does when they get in trouble save for a few rare exceptions.

You been a manager. Tell me you haven't had employees that you knew clearly messed up and clearly knew they messed up look you in the eye and say, "I didn't know" or "no one told me" or something similar to evade getting into direct trouble. I hear this all the time from people getting in trouble. The rarer person is the one that goes, "I messed up and I'll suffer the consequences." And as rare as it is in the regular workplace, it's almost extinct in politics, business, and Hollywood where you accept no responsibility as long as you can fight it to the last like Weinstein, Cosby, Polanski, the Enron people, Nixon, Clinton, and the list could go on and on and on.

Society has shown it is better to lie than accept responsibility. So nearly everyone does it.

On a side note, this is another reason why I'm shocked someone like [b]IdHawkman[b/[ made the insane statement that voting for Trump was something he considered a "good" act. I'll never understand that. Anyone that voted for Trump voted for a narcissistic, lying salesman and all the information about who Trump was and is was public information. Pretty crazy. Then again the nature of society has changed dramatically from when we were young. I doubt we'll ever see a candidate again that won't have crazy followings for and against the person due to social media and it's massive influence on information dispersal.

[RiverDog]

You been a manager. Tell me you haven't had employees that you knew clearly messed up and clearly knew they messed up look you in the eye and say, "I didn't know" or "no one told me" or something similar to evade getting into direct trouble. I hear this all the time from people getting in trouble. The rarer person is the one that goes, "I messed up and I'll suffer the consequences." And as rare as it is in the regular workplace, it's almost extinct in politics, business, and Hollywood where you accept no responsibility as long as you can fight it to the last like Weinstein, Cosby, Polanski, the Enron people, Nixon, Clinton, and the list could go on and on and on.

Society has shown it is better to lie than accept responsibility. So nearly everyone does it.

Of course I've had people lie to me as a manager, but people can and do get terminated for it, especially if they lie in an investigation or on an official document. Although I agree that honesty isn't as much of a virtue as it has been in the past, there's still a lot of good, honest people out there, even some that are in politics (albiet probably not real successful).

Trump isn't a good liar. He says so many things that are so easily provable as wrong. It's so bad that I don't take a single thing he says as accurate unless I aready know it to be factual.

[burrrton]

On a side note, this is another reason why I'm shocked someone like [b]IdHawkman[b/[ made the insane statement that voting for Trump was something he considered a "good" act. I'll never understand that. Anyone that voted for Trump voted for a narcissistic, lying salesman and all the information about who Trump was and is was public information.

I've made my feelings about Trump clear, but to call ID's vote crazy, you have to assume Trump's 'known behavior' was disqualifying to people concerned about jobs, etc, and also that the alternative was clearly a better option.

Neither of those things, it seems to me, are necessarily true.

[Aseahawkfan]

I've made my feelings about Trump clear, but to call ID's vote crazy, you have to assume Trump's 'known behavior' was disqualifying to people concerned about jobs, etc, and also that the alternative was clearly a better option.

Neither of those things, it seems to me, are necessarily true.

I didn't say his vote was crazy because he was concerned about jobs or what not. He stated on here clearly that he thought voting for Trump was an act by someone wanting to vote for goodness in the moral right and wrong sense. That is not at all a rational thought. Trump was a vote for a cheating, lying, narcissistic person, pure and simple. It wasn't "good" in the moral right or wrong sense or in any way for the greater good of the nation or good in any sense or even the lesser of two evils. It was a vote for a guy that didn't give a rip about good or evil or right or wrong or what not. Just like Hilary wasn't a vote for any of that either. It was a couple of manipulators taking their shot at the White House.

If there were truly good people influencing this nation, then neither Trump nor Hilary would have been the main candidates. Both of them were about as corrupt as they come. People have been voting based on manipulation for some time now, maybe always. I'm tired of them confusing the "quest for good" with being manipulated by some money-backed politicians.

[Seahawks4Ever]

One of the reasons that there is no huge push by the masses to hang Trump by his own petard is that no one and I mean NO NOE wants either Mike Pence or even worse Paul Ryan as POTUS. A second reason is that not very many people, even many progressives, would want HRC back as a candidate.

The third reason is that Trump, after a really unsteady first year is actually not doing to badly in many areas such as the economy and foreign policy. I am against the crooks Trump has in his cabinet like Scott Pruit because having these people in his Admin. is NOT draining the swamp! But, if you were to redo the 2016 election Trump Vs. HRC he would probably win this time in a landslide.

The more that comes out, even if it is bad, his ratings just keep going up, that should tell people something, that should tell pundits something.

[RiverDog]

One of the reasons that there is no huge push by the masses to hang Trump by his own petard is that no one and I mean NO NOE wants either Mike Pence or even worse Paul Ryan as POTUS. A second reason is that not very many people, even many progressives, would want HRC back as a candidate.

The third reason is that Trump, after a really unsteady first year is actually not doing to badly in many areas such as the economy and foreign policy. I am against the crooks Trump has in his cabinet like Scott Pruit because having these people in his Admin. is NOT draining the swamp! But, if you were to redo the 2016 election Trump Vs. HRC he would probably win this time in a landslide.

The more that comes out, even if it is bad, his ratings just keep going up, that should tell people something, that should tell pundits something.

I have not heard any of the Trump haters...and I know a lot of them...that have expressed even the slightest reluctance to replace him with Mike Pence. Most are like Hawktalk, that they'd accept anyone this side of David Duke as an alternative to Trump.

I'm not sure what your remark concerning Paul Ryan is about. Yes, as Speaker of the House, he's 2nd in line of succession to the POTUS, but both Trump and Pence would have to be removed from office almost simeltaneously for him to acceed to the presidency. Besides, Ryan's already announced his retirement, so even if the R's succeed in defending their majority in the House this fall, which at this point is very much in doubt, we're going to have a new speaker in 7 months.

I do agree with your last paragraph, though. Despite all the doom and gloom, the sky is falling hysteria coming from the left, the country is doing just fine. The recent thaw in relations with North Korea, whether or not they're genuine, is helping Trump. His job approval rating, though still mostly below 50%, are approaching the highest point of his presidency. But I don't think he'd beat HRC in a landslide if the election were to be held today. Some of Trump's personal and legal issues may not be reflected in the job approval numbers. There is a very rational argument that justifies approving of his job performance but still wanting him out.

[Aseahawkfan]

I have not heard any of the Trump haters...and I know a lot of them...that have expressed even the slightest reluctance to replace him with Mike Pence. Most are like Hawktalk, that they'd accept anyone this side of David Duke as an alternative to Trump.

I'm not sure what your remark concerning Paul Ryan is about. Yes, as Speaker of the House, he's 2nd in line of succession to the POTUS, but both Trump and Pence would have to be removed from office almost simeltaneously for him to acceed to the presidency. Besides, Ryan's already announced his retirement, so even if the R's succeed in defending their majority in the House this fall, which at this point is very much in doubt, we're going to have a new speaker in 7 months.

I do agree with your last paragraph, though. Despite all the doom and gloom, the sky is falling hysteria coming from the left, the country is doing just fine. The recent thaw in relations with North Korea, whether or not they're genuine, is helping Trump. His job approval rating, though still mostly below 50%, are approaching the highest point of his presidency. But I don't think he'd beat HRC in a landslide if the election were to be held today. Some of Trump's personal and legal issues may not be reflected in the job approval numbers. There is a very rational argument that justifies approving of his job performance but still wanting him out.

It is strangely true that our economy is doing very well and remaining on track. The Korean Peninsula seems to have calmed down and they are having historic negotiations. We are truly addressing trade discrepancies with China and the NAFTA.

The bad would be all the obvious lies from the White House. Stupid twittering. Our budget deficits are as high as they've ever been with borrowing in the extreme as predicted by the tax cuts.

Good or bad depending on your stance. They are cracking down hard on immigration. The Iran deal seems up in the air which is putting pressure on oil prices and might cause some further instability in the Middle East, but might be necessary as it did look like a pretty bad deal.

The bad locally. The dumbass Seattle City Council is planning to pass a head tax law of .26 cents on every hour worked in Seattle for businesses making over 20 million a year which will drive businesses out of Seattle to nearly any other city with no head tax law. They are passing this law to take care of the homeless so they say, which if they do this will only attract more homeless to Seattle to crowd the streets, increase crime, and cause general disgust at their habits. The majority of homeless I've experienced in Seattle are drug addicts and drunks that wander the city begging for money to feed their addictions. They stated the usual BS that they want the money from Amazon because the Trump Tax cuts which had no effect on Seattle other than to provide Amazon more money for expansion and that Amazon needs to pay "Their share." The refrain of the Socialist left is "their share" why they build nothing, but like thieves abusing the power of government look to take from the most productive of society while calling them the evil wealthy people. As much as it will negative affect their job, I hope businesses start sending a message and leaving Seattle. The Seattle City Council needs to be shown the hard way that if you pass stupid taxes looking to steal more money from business to spend on city mismanagement, businesses will leave.

[Seahawks4Ever]

It depends on who the "trump-hater" is, a Never-Trump Republican or a No Trump under any circumstances yet are also Never HRC under any circumstances and on and on.

The problem with Pence from what I have heard is that he is too much of a "true" believer when it comes to ultra right wing Christian doctrine and Donald Trump not so much, in fact, with Trump even the degree of "faith" is negotiable. I.E. Trump can be negotiated with and Pence can't when it comes to issues having to do with faith.

Paul Ryan could end up as acting POTUS should Pence become ensnared in the Trump Campaign conspiring with the Russian government to secure for Trump first the GOP Presidential nomination and then the Whitehouse. Pence could be forced to resign then Trump in rapid succession leaving Ryan as the acting POTUS. No one in the DNC would want to deal with a President Ryan with the GOP still controlling both houses of congress. Think change has been rapid under Trump? Under my scenario change would be on steroids.

There is that old saying. "don't count your chicks before they have hatched". Right now, democrats have done a whole lotta counting eggs that just might be empty by the time November rolls around. A LOT can and will happen between now and then.

[RiverDog]

Paul Ryan could end up as acting POTUS should Pence become ensnared in the Trump Campaign conspiring with the Russian government to secure for Trump first the GOP Presidential nomination and then the Whitehouse. Pence could be forced to resign then Trump in rapid succession leaving Ryan as the acting POTUS. No one in the DNC would want to deal with a President Ryan with the GOP still controlling both houses of congress. Think change has been rapid under Trump? Under my scenario change would be on steroids.

First off, Ryan isn't going to last that long. Even if an impeachment proceeding were to start today, they would not be completed before Ryan leaves the House in January of 2019. With the upcoming midterms this fall, Congress will be in recess for much of the late summer and early fall.

Secondly, it would be impossible for Trump and Pence to be removed from office simultaneously. They would both have separate impeachment proceedings and separate trials, with many months in between them. The moment Trump leaves office, Pence would become the POTUS then nominate a VP via the 25th Amendment.

The only plausible scenario for a Speaker of the House to ascend to the Presidency is if something were to befall both the Prez and VP at the same time via some sort of accident or act of war/terrorist attack.

[Aseahawkfan]

First off, Ryan isn't going to last that long. Even if an impeachment proceeding were to start today, they would not be completed before Ryan leaves the House in January of 2019. With the upcoming midterms this fall, Congress will be in recess for much of the late summer and early fall.

Secondly, it would be impossible for Trump and Pence to be removed from office simultaneously. They would both have separate impeachment proceedings and separate trials, with many months in between them. The moment Trump leaves office, Pence would become the POTUS then nominate a VP via the 25th Amendment.

The only plausible scenario for a Speaker of the House to ascend to the Presidency is if something were to befall both the Prez and VP at the same time via some sort of accident or act of war/terrorist attack.

I don't know if an minor league election violation payoff of a pornstar is enough to take a president down. Not sure anyone wants that because that opens the door for a lot other people to be taken down for similar things. As we all know both parties have a lot of members that don't want it to be that easy to take someone down from office. I doubt even the Democrats want it to be that easy to remove from office over minor league election violations like a payoff to woman they slept with.

I still believe they'll need something more damning. I also believe the midterm elections will decide things. The Democrats must take one of the houses by a good majority to have the power to remove from office absent serious criminal charges such as treason with a foreign government. The Democrats have too much to lose if they make it too easy to remove from office for something they can be easily attacked with.

[RiverDog]

I don't know if an minor league election violation payoff of a pornstar is enough to take a president down. Not sure anyone wants that because that opens the door for a lot other people to be taken down for similar things. As we all know both parties have a lot of members that don't want it to be that easy to take someone down from office. I doubt even the Democrats want it to be that easy to remove from office over minor league election violations like a payoff to woman they slept with.

I still believe they'll need something more damning. I also believe the midterm elections will decide things. The Democrats must take one of the houses by a good majority to have the power to remove from office absent serious criminal charges such as treason with a foreign government. The Democrats have too much to lose if they make it too easy to remove from office for something they can be easily attacked with.

I keep going back to the impeachment of Bill Clinton as a reference. If perjury in a court of law is not sufficient grounds for removal from office since it had to do with sex, then a campaign violation with the same root cause as Clinton's impeachment is damn sure not grounds for removal from office. And as far as the election meddling goes, there would have to be some sort of tampering with the voting tally, dead people voting, restricting certain people from voting, that sort of thing, to raise the violation to an impeachment level crime IMO.

You won't get a treason charge even if the Dems take back Congress. Treason is the only crime defined by the Constitution, and it specifically states that we have to be at war.

[Aseahawkfan]

I keep going back to the impeachment of Bill Clinton as a reference. If perjury in a court of law is not sufficient grounds for removal from office since it had to do with sex, then a campaign violation with the same root cause as Clinton's impeachment is damn sure not grounds for removal from office. And as far as the election meddling goes, there would have to be some sort of tampering with the voting tally, dead people voting, restricting certain people from voting, that sort of thing, to raise the violation to an impeachment level crime IMO.

You won't get a treason charge even if the Dems take back Congress. Treason is the only crime defined by the Constitution, and it specifically states that we have to be at war.

What laws do we have on the books for a person taking compensation from a foreign government for benefits? What do they usually charge spies selling secrets to foreign governments during non-war time?

[Hawktawk]

[

I keep going back to the impeachment of Bill Clinton as a reference. If perjury in a court of law is not sufficient grounds for removal from office since it had to do with sex, then a campaign violation with the same root cause as Clinton's impeachment is damn sure not grounds for removal from office. And as far as the election meddling goes, there would have to be some sort of tampering with the voting tally, dead people voting, restricting certain people from voting, that sort of thing, to raise the violation to an impeachment level crime IMO.

You won't get a treason charge even if the Dems take back Congress. Treason is the only crime defined by the Constitution, and it specifically states that we have to be at war.

When its our greatest geopolitical foe who has 7000 plus nukes locked and loaded and pointed at us conspiring with them against our election system is Treason.When they invaded and hold territory in nato friendly countries such as ukraine, meddled in our election without question (an act McCain and even Nikki Haley have called an act of war), play chicken buzzing our ships and planes, hold war games simulating an attack of western europe, illuminate planes in international airspace regularly with their targeting systems in the SAM batteries conspiring is Treason. When they shoot civilian jets out of the sky, colluding and offering aid and abetting is treason.

When they post a video simulation of their new "satan 2" hypersonic missile hitting mar a lago and Crazy orange satan says nada, actually throws a tantrum instead because his own administration has leveled too many sanctions it's Treason. When the POTUS cowers in fear over the certain existence of his aquatic sports with hookers in moscow tape and refuses to challenge our greatest geopolitical foe, attempts to decapitate our judicial system and military intelligence system its treason. When they hold war games involving 40 million citizens going into bomb shelters and slam their best in the world "black hole " nuke subs online so fast they are about to eclipse our fleet, snoop around the undersea communications cables in the atlantic they're not our friend. They are bent on destroying us and a president who denies this is committing treason.

Rd you may be right, the charges may never be brought. Its clear the economy is humming along right now. Korea is a feel good story right now although Im A not holding my breath and B Not sure how much credit Trump should get for what appears to be a unilateral decision by the leaders of N and S korea to come together. I almost see it as a preemptive strike against Trumps demands in the upcoming meeting but i'll give some credit for sure. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and again. Word out of N Korea this morning is that the Trump administration is trying to create hostility prior to the summit so we will see, they've played us like a fiddle for decades.

In general I favor many of Trumps policies such as deregulation, immigration reform etc.I think he and the Congress have lost their minds running a trillion dollar deficit although I favor tax reform , not unfunded though. But the good policies would have been expected from any conservative republican in control of both houses as would a conservative SCOTUS pick, minus the total Caligula based oval office, the filth, the depravity.

Yes his lifelong conservative republican HATES THIS DISGUSTING PIG and Im proud to say it. I detest the Devin Nunes etc in the congress that protect him while attacking career law enforcement officials, decorated war heros etc with more integrity in their pinkie finger that he has in his entire ill gotten empire. I am disgusted with low information voters who vote their pocketbook and pet issues and accept the most dark stain ever on the presidency. Make america Jerry Springer,make it a banana republic, make it a tributary of russia as long as the economy is good and the markets going up.

It will come down someday like it always does and great will be the fall of it with the massive debt making a crash like 2008 look like child's play.

And then we have what? what did america sell its collective soul for exactly? a cult of personality?
Sad...

[Aseahawkfan]

When its our greatest geopolitical foe who has 7000 plus nukes locked and loaded and pointed at us conspiring with them against our election system is Treason.When they invaded and hold territory in nato friendly countries such as ukraine, meddled in our election without question (an act McCain and even Nikki Haley have called an act of war), play chicken buzzing our ships and planes, hold war games simulating an attack of western europe, illuminate planes in international airspace regularly with their targeting systems in the SAM batteries conspiring is Treason. When they shoot civilian jets out of the sky, colluding and offering aid and abetting is treason.

When they post a video simulation of their new "satan 2" hypersonic missile hitting mar a lago and Crazy orange satan says nada, actually throws a tantrum instead because his own administration has leveled too many sanctions it's Treason. When the POTUS cowers in fear over the certain existence of his aquatic sports with hookers in moscow tape and refuses to challenge our greatest geopolitical foe, attempts to decapitate our judicial system and military intelligence system its treason. When they hold war games involving 40 million citizens going into bomb shelters and slam their best in the world "black hole " nuke subs online so fast they are about to eclipse our fleet, snoop around the undersea communications cables in the atlantic they're not our friend. They are bent on destroying us and a president who denies this is committing treason.

Rd you may be right, the charges may never be brought. Its clear the economy is humming along right now. Korea is a feel good story right now although Im A not holding my breath and B Not sure how much credit Trump should get for what appears to be a unilateral decision by the leaders of N and S korea to come together. I almost see it as a preemptive strike against Trumps demands in the upcoming meeting but i'll give some credit for sure. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and again. Word out of N Korea this morning is that the Trump administration is trying to create hostility prior to the summit so we will see, they've played us like a fiddle for decades.

In general I favor many of Trumps policies such as deregulation, immigration reform etc.I think he and the Congress have lost their minds running a trillion dollar deficit although I favor tax reform , not unfunded though. But the good policies would have been expected from any conservative republican in control of both houses as would a conservative SCOTUS pick, minus the total Caligula based oval office, the filth, the depravity.

Yes his lifelong conservative republican HATES THIS DISGUSTING PIG and Im proud to say it. I detest the Devin Nunes etc in the congress that protect him while attacking career law enforcement officials, decorated war heros etc with more integrity in their pinkie finger that he has in his entire ill gotten empire. I am disgusted with low information voters who vote their pocketbook and pet issues and accept the most dark stain ever on the presidency. Make america Jerry Springer,make it a banana republic, make it a tributary of russia as long as the economy is good and the markets going up.

It will come down someday like it always does and great will be the fall of it with the massive debt making a crash like 2008 look like child's play.

And then we have what? what did america sell its collective soul for exactly? a cult of personality?
Sad...

I wonder if you wander around with this madness in your mind at all times. Tributary of Russia? Caligula? Way over the top and ridiculous.

I hope one day for robots to control humans. The herd needs to be culled of its crazy.

[RiverDog]

When its our greatest geopolitical foe who has 7000 plus nukes locked and loaded and pointed at us conspiring with them against our election system is Treason.

Not according to the Constitution it isn't. From Article 3 Section 3:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

We have to be at war. Some might even argue that a treason charge would have to involve a country of which we have declared war against instead of these police actions/occupations like Iraq and Afghanistan in order to have a Constitutionally defined enemy, but for sure unless our troops are engaged in direct combat with their forces, there is no way you can consider Russia, China, or North Korea an "enemy" that would fit the Constitutional definition of treason during the times when these alleged crimes that Trump committed supposedly happened.

Even the Rosenbergs, who were convicted of transmitting highly classified material to the Soviet Union in the 1950's were never accused of treason, they were tried and convicted of espionage. John Walker Lindh, an American citizen that traveled to Afghanistan and joined the Taliban and was engaged in attempting to kill American soldiers when he was captured, was never accused of treason.

You are engaged in nothing less than a pure fantasy if you think that 50%+ of the House and 67% of the Senate would set aside the Constitution and substitute their own definition of treason in order to fit the crimes that Trump has supposedly committed as you have done.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Rudy G. has just about made the case for Stephanie Clifford and her Atty. with the way he has been shooting off his mouth w/o engaging his brain. It started out as a dubious nuisance NDA that maybe, maybe could have led to an either/or situation whether it would be Cohen or Trump possibly in trouble now because of Rudy it could be BOTH.

Rudy started talking about million dollar a "slush" fund to silence Bimbos (Bill C. must be proud) a nd other "things" that Cohen had to "clean up" for Trump. This not only sounds sleezy it sounds EXTRA SLEEZY and maybe illegal and if not illegal very unethical.

But, how much of what Rudy said has any basis in REALITY??? And, how much of what Rudy said he said because he was trying to come up with a plausible explanation for one possible crime Trump may have committed and with his possible PERJURY Rudy inexplicably IMPLICATED both Cohen AND TRUMP in TWO other FELONIES!!

People who worked with and for Rudy back in the day say he is just not the same guy "upstairs" that he used to be, especially on 9-11 when he took charge and afterwards was dubbed "America's Mayor". If "W" would have retired Rudy could have run for POTUS in 2004 and would have stood a very decent chance of winning. He was extremely popular, which had been a complete turn around BEFORE 9-11 when he had had made many enemies on both sides of the aisle.

Rudy has really slipped now and needs to be put out the pasture before he cause the POTUS (and Cohen) and more trouble. Trump was in great footing with this money grubber and her atty. and was poised to win and Rudy blows the whole thing with his mouth.

OH, and for his next act Rudy G. wants to "grease the skids" for Trump and set up the parameters for his chit chat with his old underling and protégé, Robert S. Mueller III. OMG Donald!!! Don't let Rudy DO IT!!! By the time Rudy gets done talking to Mueller YOU will be the one DEPORTED for being an ILLEGAL because Rudy will have had some wild hair up his arse and got a crazy idea to explain your INNOSCENCE!

Mr. President, I know watching Rudy is great for a laugh, but he is really KILLING your defense.

[Aseahawkfan]

We have to be at war. Some might even argue that a treason charge would have to involve a country of which we have declared war against instead of these police actions/occupations like Iraq and Afghanistan in order to have a Constitutionally defined enemy, but for sure unless our troops are engaged in direct combat with their forces, there is no way you can consider Russia, China, or North Korea an "enemy" that would fit the Constitutional definition of treason during the times when these alleged crimes that Trump committed supposedly happened.

Even the Rosenbergs, who were convicted of transmitting highly classified material to the Soviet Union in the 1950's were never accused of treason, they were tried and convicted of espionage. John Walker Lindh, an American citizen that traveled to Afghanistan and joined the Taliban and was engaged in attempting to kill American soldiers when he was captured, was never accused of treason.

You are engaged in nothing less than a pure fantasy if you think that 50%+ of the House and 67% of the Senate would set aside the Constitution and substitute their own definition of treason in order to fit the crimes that Trump has supposedly committed as you have done.

So what it the crime for gaining financially from a deal with a foreign power? What do we charge spies with that steal secrets during peace time? Do you recall? I know we've had a few.

You're not going to convince Hawktawk of anything. He's set on his opinion. He hates Trump. He isn't rational along with a lot of America on many subjects. Most people's beliefs are driven by fears, wants, needs, and other emotionally derived reasons for believing a certain way even when the evidence is against them. The dominant and powerful (I didn't say intelligent, because you can be both dominant and powerful while being not particularly intelligent unfortunately) people of our society rely on human beings' emotional, reactionary nature to control them because it's worked since man started forming groups and societies. Do what you can to help people maintain a rational viewpoint. It's what I try to do as frustrating as it is.

[RiverDog]

So what it the crime for gaining financially from a deal with a foreign power? What do we charge spies with that steal secrets during peace time? Do you recall? I know we've had a few.

You're not going to convince Hawktawk of anything. He's set on his opinion. He hates Trump. He isn't rational along with a lot of America on many subjects. Most people's beliefs are driven by fears, wants, needs, and other emotionally derived reasons for believing a certain way even when the evidence is against them. The dominant and powerful (I didn't say intelligent, because you can be both dominant and powerful while being not particularly intelligent unfortunately) people of our society rely on human beings' emotional, reactionary nature to control them because it's worked since man started forming groups and societies. Do what you can to help people maintain a rational viewpoint. It's what I try to do as frustrating as it is.

They get charged with espionage.

The Rosenbergs were tried, convicted, and executed for violating the Espionage Act of 1917, which prohibited transmitting information related to national security to a foreign power and carries with it the death penalty. The act has been amended several times over the decades, but it's still considered a capital offense. Daniel Ellsburg of the Pentagon Papers/Watergate fame was charged with violating the Espionage Act, but as I recall, he got off on a technicality.

I'm not trying to convince Hawktalk that Trump shouldn't be impeached. I am trying to tell him that he's not going to get him on treason so long as we are not at war. He has a better chance of getting Trump via the 25th Amendment than he does by trotting out a treason charge, a crime that very, very few people have ever been tried for. There might be a thousand other crimes a POTUS could be impeached for, but treason is the only crime defined by the Constitution and almost impossible to charge someone with.

[Seahawks4Ever]

The KEY phrase here is "act of war" what the Russian military intelligence did to our country not only during the 2016 election but the lead up to that general election, under the direction of Putin. Russia has been playing these games all over the world, and, frankly, so have we. BUT, 99.9% of ALL EXPERTS agree what Russia did IS AN ACT of WAR.

So, while the charge of Treason has a very HIGH BAR to reach, Donald J. Trump and many of his cronies have taken their treachery to heights only reached by the truly nefarious. In other words, Donald J. Trump has LITERALLY made it to Benedict Arnold territory. Arnold though offered an important field command by George Washington turned it down because he had already sold out his country. Instead he asked Washington to be the Commandant of West Point, an important artillery fort that controlled the water ways and should it have fallen so would our government.

Arnold drew down the defenses of West Point and as an added bonus for the British planned on kidnapping Washington and turning him over to the British and thus probably ending the war.

THAT DID NOT HAPPEN!!! The treachery was thwarted by the Father of our Country, George Washington, our first POTUS under our NEW Constitution.

Donald J. Trump along with his GOP criminal cohorts have been drawing down our nations defenses and institutions, especially our LEGAL institutions. Trump and the criminals who continue to aid and abet them will either be successful in destroying our REPUBLIC or they will be THWARTED and I hope they are treated like the traitors they are.

But, in the mean time, life still goes on and Trump still has time to pull his head out and remember he IS the POTUS, the MOST POWERFUL MAN in the world and it DOESN'T MATTER if Putin once "had" dirt or something on Trump. Donald, you the Man! NOW!! Now, start ACTING like it, tell Putin to take a hike! Anything Putin puts out like a video or something just say it IS a FAKE. You are VERY good at that. I do NOT see why Trump kisses Putin's behind when he is the POTUS. Act like a MAN Donald instead of a SNIIVELLING FOOL!

[Aseahawkfan]

They get charged with espionage.

The Rosenbergs were tried, convicted, and executed for violating the Espionage Act of 1917, which prohibited transmitting information related to national security to a foreign power and carries with it the death penalty. The act has been amended several times over the decades, but it's still considered a capital offense. Daniel Ellsburg of the Pentagon Papers/Watergate fame was charged with violating the Espionage Act, but as I recall, he got off on a technicality.

I'm not trying to convince Hawktalk that Trump shouldn't be impeached. I am trying to tell him that he's not going to get him on treason so long as we are not at war. He has a better chance of getting Trump via the 25th Amendment than he does by trotting out a treason charge, a crime that very, very few people have ever been tried for. There might be a thousand other crimes a POTUS could be impeached for, but treason is the only crime defined by the Constitution and almost impossible to charge someone with.

They could charge him with espionage. That would be interesting. Conspiring with a foreign power to gain control the presidency.

[Aseahawkfan]

The KEY phrase here is "act of war" what the Russian military intelligence did to our country not only during the 2016 election but the lead up to that general election, under the direction of Putin. Russia has been playing these games all over the world, and, frankly, so have we. BUT, 99.9% of ALL EXPERTS agree what Russia did IS AN ACT of WAR.

So, while the charge of Treason has a very HIGH BAR to reach, Donald J. Trump and many of his cronies have taken their treachery to heights only reached by the truly nefarious. In other words, Donald J. Trump has LITERALLY made it to Benedict Arnold territory. Arnold though offered an important field command by George Washington turned it down because he had already sold out his country. Instead he asked Washington to be the Commandant of West Point, an important artillery fort that controlled the water ways and should it have fallen so would our government.

Arnold drew down the defenses of West Point and as an added bonus for the British planned on kidnapping Washington and turning him over to the British and thus probably ending the war.

THAT DID NOT HAPPEN!!! The treachery was thwarted by the Father of our Country, George Washington, our first POTUS under our NEW Constitution.

Donald J. Trump along with his GOP criminal cohorts have been drawing down our nations defenses and institutions, especially our LEGAL institutions. Trump and the criminals who continue to aid and abet them will either be successful in destroying our REPUBLIC or they will be THWARTED and I hope they are treated like the traitors they are.

But, in the mean time, life still goes on and Trump still has time to pull his head out and remember he IS the POTUS, the MOST POWERFUL MAN in the world and it DOESN'T MATTER if Putin once "had" dirt or something on Trump. Donald, you the Man! NOW!! Now, start ACTING like it, tell Putin to take a hike! Anything Putin puts out like a video or something just say it IS a FAKE. You are VERY good at that. I do NOT see why Trump kisses Putin's behind when he is the POTUS. Act like a MAN Donald instead of a SNIIVELLING FOOL!

Do you have a list of the experts? I'd like to see the 99.9% list.

[RiverDog]

They could charge him with espionage. That would be interesting. Conspiring with a foreign power to gain control the presidency.

Most of the espionage laws require the transmission of classified material or information, not conspiring to win an election.

And S4E, there is no such phrase "act of war". We have to be AT war (ie levying). Here's the exact text from the Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

Here's an interpretation:

The Treason Clause applies only to disloyal acts committed during times of war. Acts of dis-loyalty during peacetime are not considered treasonous under the Constitution. Nor do acts of Espionage committed on behalf of an ally constitute treason. For example, julius and ethel rosenberg were convicted of espionage, in 1951, for helping the Soviet Union steal atomic secrets from the United States during World War II. The Rosenbergs were not tried for treason because the United States and the Soviet Union were allies during World War II.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/treason

Now let's stop with this nonsense about being able to charge Trump with treason.

[Aseahawkfan]

Now let's stop with this nonsense about being able to charge Trump with treason.

Stopping nonsense on the Internet? You have asked for the impossible. No one can stop nonsense on the Internet...or likely off the internet with humans.

[c_hawkbob]

Riv, the problem I see with your otherwise sound logic is that you are seeking to apply past rulings and legal interpretations to what is clearly a completely new circumstance. Most of these things, if they ever do reach the point of judicial consideration (during his presidency or down the road) will likely wind up being precedent setting rather than precedent dependent.

[RiverDog]

Riv, the problem I see with your otherwise sound logic is that you are seeking to apply past rulings and legal interpretations to what is clearly a completely new circumstance. Most of these things, if they ever do reach the point of judicial consideration (during his presidency or down the road) will likely wind up being precedent setting rather than precedent dependent.

Do you mean with regard to the treason charge? If so, I strongly disagree. Since treason is the only crime that is defined by the Constitution, it's extremely unlikely that a court, or even lawmakers, many of whom are lawyers and were taught to use past precedent to guide their decisions, would seek to replace that definition with one of their own.

Based on the information currently available to us, the only thing I can see that's a possible impeachment level crime that Trump may have committed is election law violations. The hope for Trump opponents is that can they get him to testify or depose him and try to get him to lie under oath or incriminate himself ala "A Few Good Men", in which case they could get a perjury charge in addition to anything he might admit to.

That seems to be the tactic that Mueller is taking based on the release of the questions he wants to ask Trump, many of which are very open ended and intended to evoke an opinionated response.

[burrrton]

That seems to be the tactic that Mueller is taking based on the release of the questions he wants to ask Trump, many of which are very open ended and intended to evoke an opinionated response.

This, and I thought I read this morning it's even worse with questions he wants to ask Giuliani.

Blatant perjury trap (at least from what I've read).