McCain stops treatments for Brain Cancer

[idhawkman]

I never wish death, sickness or injury on anyone so I will say "God Speed" John McCain.

I never agreed with his politics.

[burrrton]

Agreed with him on many things, disagreed with him on many, but regardless, the guy is a national hero. Sad news.

[RiverDog]

Agreed with him on many things, disagreed with him on many, but regardless, the guy is a national hero. Sad news.

Same here. I agreed with him roughly 50% of the time. As a politician, he was never afraid to speak his mind, didn't always drink his party's Kool-Aid if he didn't like the flavor, and as a sailor, spent 5 years as a POW and was left permanently disfigured due to the torture he received. He's a hero and patriot in every sense of the word.

[burrrton]

...and as a sailor, spent 5 years as a POW and was left permanently disfigured due to the torture he received.

And turned down being released when they refused to release the rest of the men. Unreal.

[idhawkman]

Its amazing how often the two incidents that are mentioned here are posted but no one ever mentions the negative stuff that many veterans dislike McCain for.

[Aseahawkfan]

Might have been president but for his huge mistake of choosing Sarah Palin.

Not always a fan of all his politics, but never doubted his patriotism.

[burrrton]

Its amazing how often the two incidents that are mentioned here are posted but no one ever mentions the negative stuff that many veterans dislike McCain for.

It's because the things mentioned are fundamental indicators of a person's internal makeup, and immensely admirable, and the rest are (generally) disagreements on policy.

[idhawkman]

It's because the things mentioned are fundamental indicators of a person's internal makeup, and immensely admirable, and the rest are (generally) disagreements on policy.

How can what he did in the military be disagreements on policy? Many vets attribute McCain directly for the death of over 100 sailors in one incident alone. That doesn't mention the number of other navy pilots shot down because of the information he gave up when he was captured. I'm pretty sure the things that the military vets are upset with him about you've never heard of.

[burrrton]

I'm pretty sure the things that the military vets are upset with him about you've never heard of.

This is correct. Are they talking about information he gave up while being tortured??

[Aseahawkfan]

Not real great to smear a guy that is dying. He's done his good and bad and served his nation to the best of his ability including going to actual war and putting his life on the line. No use dragging up things he can't change. No one knows how they will perform when tortured by an enemy that doesn't feel any sense of empathy or compassion for you. burrton can look up the information rather than fill this thread with it.

[burrrton]

burrton can look up the information rather than feel this thread with it.

He *can*, but he won't. He's not that interested.

[RiverDog]

Not real great to smear a guy that is dying. He's done his good and bad and served his nation to the best of his ability including going to actual war and putting his life on the line. No use dragging up things he can't change. No one knows how they will perform when tortured by an enemy that doesn't feel any sense of empathy or compassion for you. burrton can look up the information rather than feel this thread with it.

I agree 100%. This is no time to start spreading dirt on a person almost universally regarded as a true American hero as he lay dying (or had already passed).

[c_hawkbob]

I agree 100%. This is no time to start spreading dirt on a person almost universally regarded as a true American hero as he lay dying (or had already passed).

He has. RIP Sir.

[c_hawkbob]

How can what he did in the military be disagreements on policy? Many vets attribute McCain directly for the death of over 100 sailors in one incident alone. That doesn't mention the number of other navy pilots shot down because of the information he gave up when he was captured. I'm pretty sure the things that the military vets are upset with him about you've never heard of.

It's a load of crap, they twisted together reports about the Forestall accident in 67 and an incident during flight training in 60 to make it sound like the Washington Post actually ran a story blaming him for the Forestall tragedy ... such a story never ran, but that doesn't stop it from surfacing in wingnut websites all the time. You really need to check your sources better.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factchec ... li=BBnb7Kz

[RiverDog]

You (Idahawkman) really need to check your sources better.....

…, especially when it involves a dying man that was a decorated war hero, a 6 term US Senator, and former POTUS nominee. Have you no shame?

Thanks for debunking that, Cbob.

[Hawktawk]

To mention McCains politics at all at a time like this or cast aspersions on his military service shows the utter moral bankruptcy of the Trump cult party. MOF that was the moment 2 years plus ago when Trump told Frank Luntz McCain wasn't a war here because he got captured" I like the ones who didn't get captured to tell you the truth".

I knew I could never vote for the MF or support him in any way in that moment. Asea and Id and whoever else,you want to say I don't care about his policies and just hate him. Goddamn right I hate the despicable piece of human excrement. Policies come and go as do politicians but the stain on america from this man ever sitting in the hallowed oval office for one minute will never be erased.


God Speed Mr McCain. I appreciate your sacrifices, your selfless dedication to this country, your honesty and decency and sense of humor. You were everything Trump will never be sir and he couldn't carry your balls in a wheelbarrow. RIP

[RiverDog]

To mention McCains politics at all at a time like this or cast aspersions on his military service shows the utter moral bankruptcy of the Trump cult party. MOF that was the moment 2 years plus ago when Trump told Frank Luntz McCain wasn't a war here because he got captured" I like the ones who didn't get captured to tell you the truth".

Of course, Trump didn't mention his own activities during the Vietnam War, when he took advantage of 5 deferments, including one for "bad feet", while his colleagues were off getting killed, maimed, and in McCain's case, tortured. I never served, either, and it causes me a sense of embarrassment when I'm around military types and will go out of my way to thank them for their service.

Then there was the whole deal about the raising the White House flag to full staff while others were lowered to honor McCain and the incredibly brief and totally inadequete tweet rather than an official statement from the WH podium that all siting POTUS's have made a few hours after the passing of a man or woman of McCain's stature. I can understand him not attending the funeral as McCain himself asked Trump to stay away, but this blatant lack of respect is beyond my comprehension.

This just shows Trump's true colors, how childish, vindictive, insensitive, and uncaring an individual that DJT is, and another one of the many reasons why I'll never vote for him and will not support anyone that supports Trump. The man is not a leader.

[idhawkman]

It's a load of crap, they twisted together reports about the Forestall accident in 67 and an incident during flight training in 60 to make it sound like the Washington Post actually ran a story blaming him for the Forestall tragedy ... such a story never ran, but that doesn't stop it from surfacing in wingnut websites all the time. You really need to check your sources better.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factchec ... li=BBnb7Kz

I was going to let this drop but River and HawkTalk had to respond.

I think you need to go back and read my post better. Regardless of whether you believe it or not, many vets do still attribute it to him and the deaths of many pilots shot down. He made little to no difference for vets and some think he did even worse for us his entire time on the services committees. It was under his watch that the V.A. system fell into such disarray.

All of you holier than thou people can save your shaming for someone who cares. You may choose to remember him one way but not everyone shares your views.

[Aseahawkfan]

I was going to let this drop but River and HawkTalk had to respond.

I think you need to go back and read my post better. Regardless of whether you believe it or not, many vets do still attribute it to him and the deaths of many pilots shot down. He made little to no difference for vets and some think he did even worse for us his entire time on the services committees. It was under his watch that the V.A. system fell into such disarray.

All of you holier than thou people can save your shaming for someone who cares. You may choose to remember him one way but not everyone shares your views.

Remembering someone well and respect for the dead are two different things.

I see Hawktawk being disrespectful for using this thread to push his Trump views. Seems McCain can't escape Trump even in death.

[RiverDog]

All of you holier than thou people can save your shaming for someone who cares. You may choose to remember him one way but not everyone shares your views.

I don't care how much you rip into McCain. Even deceased politicians are fair game, and I might even join you on some of it as I wasn't always in favor of some his agenda.

But for crissakes, can you at least wait until they bury the man?

[RiverDog]

Remembering someone well and respect for the dead are two different things.

I see Hawktawk being disrespectful for using this thread to push his Trump views. Seems McCain can't escape Trump even in death.

I saw a video clip a few days ago where McCain, at a town hall meeting while running for POTUS in 2008, was sitting directly front of a lady and handed her his microphone. She began to tell McCain that Obama made her feel uncomfortable because she thought he was an Arab. McCain politely interrupted her, saying "No, mam, no mam" and took the microphone from her and told the audience that Obama was a decent guy, good family man, and so on. It didn't take too much of an imagination to wonder how Donald Trump would have handled that situation.

[Hawktawk]

Of course, Trump didn't mention his own activities during the Vietnam War, when he took advantage of 5 deferments, including one for "bad feet", while his colleagues were off getting killed, maimed, and in McCain's case, tortured. I never served, either, and it causes me a sense of embarrassment when I'm around military types and will go out of my way to thank them for their service.

Then there was the whole deal about the raising the White House flag to full staff while others were lowered to honor McCain and the incredibly brief and totally inadequete tweet rather than an official statement from the WH podium that all siting POTUS's have made a few hours after the passing of a man or woman of McCain's stature. I can understand him not attending the funeral as McCain himself asked Trump to stay away, but this blatant lack of respect is beyond my comprehension.

This just shows Trump's true colors, how childish, vindictive, insensitive, and uncaring an individual that DJT is, and another one of the many reasons why I'll never vote for him and will not support anyone that supports Trump. The man is not a leader.

How about Trump being caught on tape with Howard Stern calling his many romps with unprotected sex in the 70s without catching VD "my personal Vietnam". It's on tape, you cant even make this stuff up . And the flag issue at the WH, the lack of any kind of statement on McCain's death for over 48 hrs just does demonstrate what a chickenS#!+ petty small cowardly internet tough guy he is.

[Hawktawk]

gs.

I see Hawktawk being disrespectful for using this thread to push his Trump views. Seems McCain can't escape Trump even in death.

Oh you are so wrong buddy. McCain escaped Trump several years ago when he had the nuts to stand up and buck the shills in his party and vehemently oppose the man. He rescinded his party loyal endorsement after the access hollywood tape as everyone on the continent should have as well. He banned him from his funeral and his last statement to america skewers Trump without ever mentioning his miserable name.

Its entirely relevant and respectful in the context of MCcain's death and the actions of Trump before and after it to bring up. It honors Mccain to defend his legacy and compare it to Chumps and to state that my turning point whether to hold my nose and support my lifelong party's choice or say hell no was the ultimate disrespect of the man's sacrifice in a flip and cavalier way.

Don't judge me as a lifelong republican for one second for stating my views of my former party's *leader* you voted for the POS.

[Hawktawk]

It's because the things mentioned are fundamental indicators of a person's internal makeup, and immensely admirable, and the rest are (generally) disagreements on policy.

How can what he did in the military be disagreements on policy? Many vets attribute McCain directly for the death of over 100 sailors in one incident alone. That doesn't mention the number of other navy pilots shot down because of the information he gave up when he was captured. I'm pretty sure the things that the military vets are upset with him about you've never heard of.[/quote]

Id I know you served your country but have you ever faced torture so severe you couldn't raise your hands above your shoulders till your dying day?

don't judge a man unless you walked a mile in his shoes. Hopefully someday you will look back on this time when you supported a madman, a traitor, a despicable person and an unfit commander in chief and feel shame.

[idhawkman]

I saw a video clip a few days ago where McCain, at a town hall meeting while running for POTUS in 2008, was sitting directly front of a lady and handed her his microphone. She began to tell McCain that Obama made her feel uncomfortable because she thought he was an Arab. McCain politely interrupted her, saying "No, mam, no mam" and took the microphone from her and told the audience that Obama was a decent guy, good family man, and so on. It didn't take too much of an imagination to wonder how Donald Trump would have handled that situation.

I think you are exactly right since Trump did comment on McCain during his campaign. I think the big difference is, look who became president and who didn't. McCain legitimized Obama to many fence setters with that reaction.

[idhawkman]

How about Trump being caught on tape with Howard Stern calling his many romps with unprotected sex in the 70s without catching VD "my personal Vietnam". It's on tape, you cant even make this stuff up . And the flag issue at the WH, the lack of any kind of statement on McCain's death for over 48 hrs just does demonstrate what a chickenS#!+ petty small cowardly internet tough guy he is.

Wake up. Lowering the flag is suppose to be a rare thing but now a days it is more often there than not. Lying in state in the capitol rotunda is suppose to be for Presidents and General officers like MacArthur. Can you name any other Senator that has been laid in the Capitol Rotunda?

[RiverDog]

Wake up. Lowering the flag is suppose to be a rare thing but now a days it is more often there than not. Lying in state in the capitol rotunda is suppose to be for Presidents and General officers like MacArthur. Can you name any other Senator that has been laid in the Capitol Rotunda?

Oh, wake up yourself! There have been 12 US Senators that have been laid to rest in the Captitol Rotunda, the most recent of which includes Robert Taft (1953), Everett Dirkson (1969), Hubert Humphrey (1978), Claude Pepper(1989) and Daniel Inouye (2012). None of those Senators were Presidents or Generals, and McCain has a lot in common with some if not all of those dignified Americans. It is entirely appropriate and very fitting for him to be honored by being laid to rest in the Capitol Rotunda.

https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/histo ... otunda.htm

You really do need to start doing some homework. It's getting to the point where I have a hard time trusting that you know what you're talking about.

[idhawkman]

Oh, wake up yourself! There have been 12 US Senators that have been laid to rest in the Captitol Rotunda, the most recent of which includes Robert Taft (1953), Everett Dirkson (1969), Hubert Humphrey (1978), Claude Pepper(1989) and Daniel Inouye (2012). None of those Senators were Presidents or Generals, and McCain has a lot in common with some if not all of those dignified Americans. It is entirely appropriate and very fitting for him to be honored by being laid to rest in the Capitol Rotunda.

https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/histo ... otunda.htm

You really do need to start doing some homework. It's getting to the point where I have a hard time trusting that you know what you're talking about.

Great example of fake news. Omitting information is just as bad as reporting false information.

1953 – Robert A. Taft, U.S. Senator and Majority Leader
1969 – Everett Dirksen, Illinois Senator, Senate Minority Leader 1959–1969
1978 – Hubert Humphrey, Vice President 1965–1969, Minnesota Senator, 1968 Democratic nominee for President of the United States
1989 – Claude Pepper, long-serving Senator and Representative from Florida (the closest thing to McCain)
2012 – Daniel Inouye, President pro tempore of the U.S. Senate, Senator from Hawaii, and recipient of the Medal of Honor[9][10]
2018 – John McCain, 2008 Republican nominee for President of the United States, Senator from Arizona, and recipient of the Silver Star.[11]

NOTE: Claude Pepper's most significant legislation was the Fair Labor Standards Act which is still in use today. McCain's signature legislative accomplishment was the McCain Feingold act of 2002 which has been largely rolled back now.

Hopefully, you can see the major difference here.

[RiverDog]

Great example of fake news. Omitting information is just as bad as reporting false information.

1953 – Robert A. Taft, U.S. Senator and Majority Leader
1969 – Everett Dirksen, Illinois Senator, Senate Minority Leader 1959–1969
1978 – Hubert Humphrey, Vice President 1965–1969, Minnesota Senator, 1968 Democratic nominee for President of the United States
1989 – Claude Pepper, long-serving Senator and Representative from Florida (the closest thing to McCain)
2012 – Daniel Inouye, President pro tempore of the U.S. Senate, Senator from Hawaii, and recipient of the Medal of Honor[9][10]
2018 – John McCain, 2008 Republican nominee for President of the United States, Senator from Arizona, and recipient of the Silver Star.[11]

NOTE: Claude Pepper's most significant legislation was the Fair Labor Standards Act which is still in use today. McCain's signature legislative accomplishment was the McCain Feingold act of 2002 which has been largely rolled back now.

Hopefully, you can see the major difference here.

Omitting information? Bullcrap! I omitted nothing. You challenged other posters to "name any other Senator that has been laid to rest in the Capitol Rotunda", and I did just that. Now that you've been shown that you didn't know what you were talking about when you made that statement, you're attempting to cover your tracks by adding your own personal qualifications that don't exist anywhere else but in your own mind.

Of course, there's differences between those men, some major, some not so major. McCain was a 6 term Senator (something that none of the aforementioned other Senators except Inouye can claim), a POTUS nominee (something that all except Humphrey cannot claim), a decorated war hero (something only Inouye can claim) and a former POW that was permanently disabled due to his being tortured (something none of them can claim). He earned his place amongst those other men.

[Aseahawkfan]

Delete for me, thanks.

[RiverDog]

...but I don't think he (Trump) should president. I think he is a low class individual who sets a bad example for the people of this nation. I think he represents us poorly. I think he is crude, insensitive, narcissistic, and a bully that thinks he can verbally abuse people without consequence. I think he believes his money sets him above the law for things like obstruction of justice, his bullying, and his other pathetic and immature forms of behavior. I don't like his twittering. The president acts like some shock jock political commentator trying to get ratings versus representing the American people in a respectful, responsible way that the American people can at least feel respected. Trump embarrasses me as an American. I don't care for it at all.

That's exactly my sentiments. I've had many immigrants on my crew that were newbies to the American political process and whether or not their fears were justified, they were scared to death of Trump's rhetoric and his demonization of immigrants, his talk of a Berlin style wall, and his pure hatred for Muslims. It was all I could do to reassure those hard working, good natured souls on my crew that the country didn't hate them, that people voted for Trump voted for him for different reasons, including economic reasons, or that many weren't voting for Trump as much as they were voting against HRC.

I've gotten tired of defending Trump and making excuses for him. I've never had to tell so many people in my life that "I didn't vote for him" in order to reassure those with whom I have shared so many experiences with and that have been so faithful to me personally I was still their friend and advocate. Although we cast secret ballots, I could never look myself in the mirror if I ever voted for Trump.

[Hawktawk]

I did not vote for Trump. Don't confuse not losing my mind and hating him with liking him as president. I did not and will not vote for Donald Trump.

A little hard to believe based on the fact you had the talking points down pat, especially early on in his presidency although you are now backtracking.



So just because I don't like reading your crazy BS when it comes to Trump doesn't mean I like the guy and want him to become president. Next election I'll either vote no confidence again or find another person to vote for that suits my viewpoint and isn't trying to turn us into excuse-making, lazy, no accountability socialists.

I could care less about politics. Blowing trillion dollar holes in the budget and imposing business killing tariffs, dissing our friends and allies while sucking off vlad Putin isn't my cup of tea either.

I'm voting against the party of trump, period. If that means bernie sanders Ill do it assuming Trump is not impeached which is becoming more of a possibility with every guilty plea, flipped witness and indictment.

If you didn't vote for anyone you are excluded from the conversation, sorry. Gary Johnson was an excellent candidate and very proud that I did my civic duty and actually voted for the best choice.

Trump doesn't control me like he controls you.

Trump doesn't control me any more than he did McCain. As a lifelong republican that said no Fing way and wont give him one inch of legitimacy id say quite the opposite of the 80% shillsd in the party.

Neither of the candidates in the last election were worthy to serve this nation. It was a bad vote for either one. That is a sad, sad state of affairs for America.

Couldn't agree more with this. The thing is Gary Johnson was right down the middle, a man of integrity and a successful 2 term republican governor. The real rigged aspect of the election beyond Russia's massive meddling was his exclusion from the debates by the duopoly and the media eager for a s*** show rather than an intelligent discussion. I'm not sure how the chips would have fallen but he was polling better than Ross Perot who was included and likely helped elect slick willie. At this point Id rather be in loyal opposition to HRC and still have my lifelong party than be governed by this dangerous embarrassing lunatic hand picked by our greatest geopolitical foe.

Maybe if you get control of your emotions and focus on logic, you'd do a much better job of fighting Trump and fixing this nation. This nation doesn't need more emotionally driven ridiculousness. It needs some reason, wisdom, and an understanding of the purpose and founding values of the nation and how to implement them in the modern day.

The problem isn't Im too emotional. It's that not enough people give enough of a crap about this travesty. We should all be on the way to washington with pitchforks and we should start at the white house and go right through the senate and house as well but apathy reigns. Not with me buddy and i'm doing my best to try to change minds one at a time and call every bit of this guys BS. If you don't like reading my truth pass it on by.

[burrrton]

Not with me buddy and i'm doing my best to try to change minds one at a time and call every bit of this guys BS.

If Trump gets reelected, it will be due to you and your like-minded bed-wetters more than any other factor.

"My truth".

LOL.

[RiverDog]

The problem isn't Im too emotional. It's that not enough people give enough of a crap about this travesty. We should all be on the way to washington with pitchforks and we should start at the white house and go right through the senate and house as well but apathy reigns. Not with me buddy and i'm doing my best to try to change minds one at a time and call every bit of this guys BS. If you don't like reading my truth pass it on by.

Hawktalk, I like you a lot and consider you my online brother, but you've just contradicted yourself. You start out by telling us that you're not too emotional, then in a couple of breaths later, you're advocating that we all should go to the Capitol armed with pitchforks. Can you not see the oxymoronic hypocrisy in your two statements? You're not making sense.

[Aseahawkfan]

Delete.

[RiverDog]

I know you cannot have forgotten this is his usual posting style. Only difference is he used to spew all this talk towards Democrats and Obama and his policies. I don't think he can take a reasonable view of politics. It's extreme or not at all for him. I remember reading his views when he was hammering on the Democrats and though I tend to go conservative, I couldn't believe some of the stuff I was reading. He's more reasonable most of the time about the Seahawks, but when it comes to politics or religion Hawktawk has some pretty wild ideas.

Actually his basic viewpoints are very close to the same as mine, it's just that we have a difference in how we express them. For example, we both voted for the Libertarian candidate Johnson rather than to cave into the lesser of two evils way of thinking.

[idhawkman]

Omitting information? Bullcrap! I omitted nothing. You challenged other posters to "name any other Senator that has been laid to rest in the Capitol Rotunda", and I did just that. Now that you've been shown that you didn't know what you were talking about when you made that statement, you're attempting to cover your tracks by adding your own personal qualifications that don't exist anywhere else but in your own mind.

Of course, there's differences between those men, some major, some not so major. McCain was a 6 term Senator (something that none of the aforementioned other Senators except Inouye can claim), a POTUS nominee (something that all except Humphrey cannot claim), a decorated war hero (something only Inouye can claim) and a former POW that was permanently disabled due to his being tortured (something none of them can claim). He earned his place amongst those other men.

Bullcrap! Decorated? (thousands of people have the silver star - its not that rare. His decoration is not anywhere close to even being a navy cross let alone the Medal of honor). 6 term senator with what major laws afforded to him? ONE!!!! Give me a break. POW, yep he was. How many thousands have there been.

You may hold him in high esteem but I don't hold him to that high a level. He served the country and quite frankly that is all he ever did. Maybe that is part of his shortcomings. He never held a real job outside of government.