NFL Report on Martin-Incognito Released

[RiverDog]

I haven't read through the entire report, but what I did read disgusted me. It's not your typical "sticks and stone may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" type of thing. This is pure unadulterated verbal harassment with the intent to inflict emotional harm. As a matter of fact, Incognito actually bragged that he had finally "broken JMart" when Martin had finally had enough, then tried to have the document that he had recorded those comments in destroyed.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10455 ... harassment

The entire report is in a pdf link to the right in the article. It's pretty timely as we're currently discussing what the impact an openly gay player would have in an NFL locker room.

[Hawktawk]

Gotta disagree RD. I waded through the 1000 texts between Martin and Incognito. It was 2 peas in a pod, Martin was nearly as vulgar as Incognito and it went on for 2 years. And the final report involves Pouncey and another player, but Incognito was the name drug through the mud for months. Even Wells states in his report that the players DID NOT INTEND to drive Martin away from the team or cause him emotional stress. Bottom line for me is Martin is a mentally unstable man who is not fit for the NFL culture. It continues to annoy me to see people try to turn this most violent of sports into some sort of a social experiment. On this type of scale it isn't going to happen. There IS a kindlier gentler NFL. Just listen to the Hawks DBs telling each other they love them on sound FX before the SB. But a 310 pound Tackle who cant take a ribbing or stand up for himself? Its his own problem. Like Favre said "give me a break". Martin is not fit for the NFL.

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah, they were both the same, that's what it says ... that's why one lawyer is saying his client

"feels a great sense of relief"

and

"is a great man, and he's only shown me that he is very honest since the day I met him. He loves football and is eager to get back on the field, regardless of what team he plays for."

While the other is calling the report

"replete with errors"

and claiming the findings contained the report

"never happened"

... 'Cause that's what happens when an investigation finds comparative culpability.

[c_hawkbob]

Importantly tweeted (egad what a concept):

"Please don't stereotype NFL players for what's going on with Miami. That type of stuff is not common in other locker rooms."

-- Green Bay Packers offensive lineman T.J. Lang

[Eaglehawk]

Amazing read.
That's all I will say.

[savvyman]

No doubt about it - Richie Incognito (and a couple of his teammates) are bullies of the worst kind.

And Jonathan Martin and a couple others including the Japanese trainer were definitely bullied - no if and's or buts about it.

However - Jonathan Martin I think accurately diagnosed Incognito as Bi-Polar - there is a good Ritchie - the guy who can be helpful and protective and a tough minded teammate you want on the field with you - then there is Psychotic Ritchie - who manifest himself in the behavior as the worst kind of Bully imaginable.

The black eye for all this in my opinion is on the NFL front Office - these guys prove again and again that they don't give a damm about the players welfare - just like any other coporation in america today towards their workers well being.

The secondary blame for all this goes to the Miami Dolphins Front Office and organization for allowing this type of bullying atmosphere to take root and grow.

[RiverDog]

Gotta disagree RD. I waded through the 1000 texts between Martin and Incognito. It was 2 peas in a pod, Martin was nearly as vulgar as Incognito and it went on for 2 years. And the final report involves Pouncey and another player, but Incognito was the name drug through the mud for months. Even Wells states in his report that the players DID NOT INTEND to drive Martin away from the team or cause him emotional stress. Bottom line for me is Martin is a mentally unstable man who is not fit for the NFL culture. It continues to annoy me to see people try to turn this most violent of sports into some sort of a social experiment. On this type of scale it isn't going to happen. There IS a kindlier gentler NFL. Just listen to the Hawks DBs telling each other they love them on sound FX before the SB. But a 310 pound Tackle who cant take a ribbing or stand up for himself? Its his own problem. Like Favre said "give me a break". Martin is not fit for the NFL.

A ribbing? Is that how you characterize being called a N and raping his sister?

There's a clear line between 'ribbing' or good natured teasing and the type of insults being hurled at Martin. It was obvious that Incognito was intending to psychologically destroy Martin, or else he wouldn't have issued instructions to destroy the diary he was keeping about the incident after Martin left the team.

The league needs to make an example out if Incognito. This type of crap should not be permitted in an NFL locker room or anywhere else as far as that goes.

[c_hawkbob]

Now the douche has taken to bullying his own Ferrari ... poor car!

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24458907/report-richie-incognito-smashed-own-ferrari-with-baseball-bat

[NorthHawk]

That would be the bi-polar bad Richie taking it out on his car.

[RiverDog]

It doesn't top what Jack "Hacksaw" Reynolds did to his car....

[HumanCockroach]

Stupid Ferrari had it coming, I mean it's soft and Richie was simply attempting to get a little more oomph out of it, if he wanted to really hurt it, he would have aimed for the weak points like the windows, not just "encouraged" the hood. Him and that car are close man, like two peas in a pod, it was all in good fun..... LOL

[c_hawkbob]

It doesn't top what Jack "Hacksaw" Reynolds did to his car....

True, but a 53 Chevy ain't no Ferrari!

[RiverDog]

It doesn't top what Jack "Hacksaw" Reynolds did to his car....

True, but a 53 Chevy ain't no Ferrari!

When you take into consideration the salaries players are getting now vs. what they were back in Hacksaw's days, a '53 Chevy is about the equivalent of a Ferrari.

[Hawktawk]

It has been reported that Incognitos teammates have recently expressed concern for his mental health. This looks like a bizarre manifestation of that, along with the disjointed tweets he posed a couple weeks ago. Or maybe the damn thing wouldn't run, it is a Ferrari after all.

I can understand his anger somewhat.Most observers think Incognitos career is over. He was thrown under the bus by Martin and his coaches and GM for a *scandal* that was basically big uncouth rowdy boys being themselves around a mentally weak wuss who is unfit for the NFL. Then Goody's hand picked boy Wells issues a report that fingers POUNCEY as well as another lineman. But no suspension or any hint of trouble for them. We have been hearing Incognito is Satan reincarnated but I seem to remember a picture of Pouncey wearing a "FREE HERNANDEZ" tee shirt.

So lets get this straight. Supporting a killer is more acceptable than being crude while trying to toughen up some complete wimp.
BTW there's been talk that Martin wants to return to the Dolphins. But anonymous team sources have said NO WAY do they want him back.#1 because he is a head case.#2 he just isn't very good.

So there's really no winners here.

[c_hawkbob]

It doesn't top what Jack "Hacksaw" Reynolds did to his car....

True, but a 53 Chevy ain't no Ferrari!

When you take into consideration the salaries players are getting now vs. what they were back in Hacksaw's days, a '53 Chevy is about the equivalent of a Ferrari.

The car Hacksaw cut in half was an abandoned car he was turning into a trailer to tow behind his new jeep. The story has been embellished just
a bit over the years.

[HumanCockroach]

It has been reported that Incognitos teammates have recently expressed concern for his mental health. This looks like a bizarre manifestation of that, along with the disjointed tweets he posed a couple weeks ago. Or maybe the damn thing wouldn't run, it is a Ferrari after all.

I can understand his anger somewhat.Most observers think Incognitos career is over. He was thrown under the bus by Martin and his coaches and GM for a *scandal* that was basically big uncouth rowdy boys being themselves around a mentally weak wuss who is unfit for the NFL. Then Goody's hand picked boy Wells issues a report that fingers POUNCEY as well as another lineman. But no suspension or any hint of trouble for them. We have been hearing Incognito is Satan reincarnated but I seem to remember a picture of Pouncey wearing a "FREE HERNANDEZ" tee shirt.

So lets get this straight. Supporting a killer is more acceptable than being crude while trying to toughen up some complete wimp.
BTW there's been talk that Martin wants to return to the Dolphins. But anonymous team sources have said NO WAY do they want him back.#1 because he is a head case.#2 he just isn't very good.

So there's really no winners here.

So, you have a problem with the Dolphins, because ultimately it is the Dolphins that suspended Incognito, not the NFL, and it is the Dolphins brass that has allowed Pouncey and others the ability to continue to play. None of that changes what Icognito is/was or has been, which is a douche from college until now. He created his bed, and now he is lying in it, no matter what you feel about the NFL, the actions and trouble getting back into the league are all Incognito'sdoing. Simply don't feel an ounce of pity for the dude.

[RiverDog]

Looks like he's checking himself into a psychiatric care facility. They say that the first step in any recovery process is acceptance of the problem. Kudos to him for fessing up and seeking help.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10532 ... psych-unit

[kalibane]

I guess then this proves that Incognito is just a "wuss who is unfit for the nfl".

[Hawktawk]

Incognito was a pro bowler, something Martin never ever got a whiff of and never will.MOF there's plenty of speculation that Martin cried foul because he knew he couldn't cut it and he didn't want to be a man about it and admit it. Almost to a man the Dolphins locker room stood up for Incognito when this whole stupid thing became public and there was very little support for Martin. Incognitos current troubles are a result of being a pariah and a scapegoat for a locker room culture that not only permeated the Dolphins but plenty more in the NFL as well. Now they threw a bunch more guys under the bus to save Philbins sorry butt including firing the conditioning coach a day after he had received an award. The whole thing is a complete PC police farce.I took the time to wade through the 1000 texts. Martin was a willing participant in the same behavior he ratted guys out for. We don't need either guy but Id much rather have Incognito on the roster than some complete milquetoast.

[kalibane]

Oh so it's fine to break down after one off season of being a pariah to strangers but a season and a half of being a pariah to the people who are suppose to actually look out for you just means you're just a wuss.

Watching you rationalize this is kind of entertaining, I'll give you that.

If you'd rather have Incognito on the roster than Martin there is something wrong with you. Martin may be milquetoast but he doesn't actively hurt the locker room. Incognito has been involved in 5 major football programs. Nebraska, Oregon, The Rams, The Bills and the Dolphins. The first four all got rid of him due to off the field character issues and it's only a matter of time before the Dolphins send him out on a rail too. 5 football programs... 5 times getting the boot... and according to you, Martin is the problem.

[Hawktawk]

Incognito had previously sought professional help and was on medication for personality disorder. Thats why he had matured from a jackass and a penalty machine into a pro bowl guard and respected teammate.Now hes gone back into therapy after having his job ripped away from him by a back stabbing mentally weak teammate. Good for him.

One guy is an NFL pro bowl caliber player who became so in spite of his disorder. The other guy is not an NFL caliber player and it was becoming apparent so he blamed others for his failures to save his paycheck. Its pretty easy for me to rationalize it. I'm bipolar and on medication as well and I am a successful supervisor who deals with stressful situations and inconsiderate people on a routine basis without going home and crying to mama. And I got worse hazings playing high school football for free than this multimillion dollar baby got with the Dolphins.

I get tired of people using their personality disorders or whatever as an excuse for blaming others for their problems.

[kalibane]

"I get tired of people using their personality disorders or whatever as an excuse for blaming others for their problems."

Says the guy who just gave Incognito a pass for his entire career of being a complete jackass because he had a "personality disorder".

BTW stop using the fact that Incognito made 1 pro-bowl as some kind of validation of how he conducts himself. Charles Haley is a HOF caliber player and he's a complete piece of schit. Mark Chumra and Ben Rapelisburger made all-pro teams and they're still sexual predators. Incognito, could be a 12 time all pro and he'd still be a garabage human being.

P.S. given the results of the Wells Report, sure doesn't seem like he turned his behavior around to me. But you know if you mean that he was on just good enough behavior that he didn't have his contract voided by the special character clause within then um I guess he turned it around? That's like saying... OJ started out with murder but the most recent thing he did was beat up the owner of a pawn shop so he's clearly on the right track to rehabilitation.

[RiverDog]

Incognito was a pro bowler, something Martin never ever got a whiff of and never will.MOF there's plenty of speculation that Martin cried foul because he knew he couldn't cut it and he didn't want to be a man about it and admit it. Almost to a man the Dolphins locker room stood up for Incognito when this whole stupid thing became public and there was very little support for Martin. Incognitos current troubles are a result of being a pariah and a scapegoat for a locker room culture that not only permeated the Dolphins but plenty more in the NFL as well. Now they threw a bunch more guys under the bus to save Philbins sorry butt including firing the conditioning coach a day after he had received an award. The whole thing is a complete PC police farce.I took the time to wade through the 1000 texts. Martin was a willing participant in the same behavior he ratted guys out for. We don't need either guy but Id much rather have Incognito on the roster than some complete milquetoast.

Even if I were to accept as fact your assertion that "almost to a man" that the Dolphin's locker room stood for Incognito, that doesn't mean he was in the right or that Martin was in the wrong. Incognito was a Pro Bowl veteran, Martin a rookie, so it would only stand to reason that Incognito, due to his success and longevity, would garner more support in a locker room. He won a popularity contest.

Incognito knew what he did was wrong, otherwise he would not have given instructions to have his diary destroyed when the league announced that they were starting an investigation. That's almost an admission of guilt IMO.

I don't know which player I'd rather have or not have on my roster personality wise. I don't know enough about either player to pass judgment on a character issue like that. Too much hearsay. I would not necessarily rule out either one because of this incident. If Pete/JS thinks enough of either player, I'd welcome them to our team. Lord knows we could use some depth on the OL.

[HumanCockroach]

Are you serious RD? I Mean, it was you that had MAJOR issues with a guy knocking a pizza sign off a car, and the smell of marijuana in a car. Seems inconsistent to me.

As for Icognito, eh, he won't be playing in Seattle ( thank god) Martin is young enough that some team somewhere will give him a shot. Icognito, created a situations that is going to be difficult to get out of, and continues to add to it, he hasn't no matter what some ( really one) people think, done anything of not IN the NFL and has caused or been part of problems in every single stop along the way, maybe he is bi polar, maybe not, it does NOT matter, because with or without that excuse his history is his, and will be taken into account. Good and bad, of which there is a hell of a lot more bad.

He has no one to blame but himself.

[RiverDog]

Are you serious RD? I Mean, it was you that had MAJOR issues with a guy knocking a pizza sign off a car, and the smell of marijuana in a car. Seems inconsistent to me.

As for Icognito, eh, he won't be playing in Seattle ( thank god) Martin is young enough that some team somewhere will give him a shot. Icognito, created a situations that is going to be difficult to get out of, and continues to add to it, he hasn't no matter what some ( really one) people think, done anything of not IN the NFL and has caused or been part of problems in every single stop along the way, maybe he is bi polar, maybe not, it does NOT matter, because with or without that excuse his history is his, and will be taken into account. Good and bad, of which there is a hell of a lot more bad.

He has no one to blame but himself.

I can understand an accusation of inconsistency re Incognito as he's obviously the villain in all of this and has been suspended for his behavior. But Jonathan Martin? What NFL policy did he violate? Where did he have a run-in with the law?

[HumanCockroach]

Are you serious RD? I Mean, it was you that had MAJOR issues with a guy knocking a pizza sign off a car, and the smell of marijuana in a car. Seems inconsistent to me.

As for Icognito, eh, he won't be playing in Seattle ( thank god) Martin is young enough that some team somewhere will give him a shot. Icognito, created a situations that is going to be difficult to get out of, and continues to add to it, he hasn't no matter what some ( really one) people think, done anything of not IN the NFL and has caused or been part of problems in every single stop along the way, maybe he is bi polar, maybe not, it does NOT matter, because with or without that excuse his history is his, and will be taken into account. Good and bad, of which there is a hell of a lot more bad.

He has no one to blame but himself.

I can understand an accusation of inconsistency re Incognito as he's obviously the villain in all of this and has been suspended for his behavior. But Jonathan Martin? What NFL policy did he violate? Where did he have a run-in with the law?

Have no problem with Martin per say ( though I don't think he improves what the Seahawks already currently have), but it looked as though you were accepting of either player ( including Icognito) neither is particularly interesting to me, quite honestly, just can't fathom a situation you would get behind a move to bring in Icognito.

[RiverDog]

Are you serious RD? I Mean, it was you that had MAJOR issues with a guy knocking a pizza sign off a car, and the smell of marijuana in a car. Seems inconsistent to me.

As for Icognito, eh, he won't be playing in Seattle ( thank god) Martin is young enough that some team somewhere will give him a shot. Icognito, created a situations that is going to be difficult to get out of, and continues to add to it, he hasn't no matter what some ( really one) people think, done anything of not IN the NFL and has caused or been part of problems in every single stop along the way, maybe he is bi polar, maybe not, it does NOT matter, because with or without that excuse his history is his, and will be taken into account. Good and bad, of which there is a hell of a lot more bad.

He has no one to blame but himself.

I can understand an accusation of inconsistency re Incognito as he's obviously the villain in all of this and has been suspended for his behavior. But Jonathan Martin? What NFL policy did he violate? Where did he have a run-in with the law?

Have no problem with Martin per say ( though I don't think he improves what the Seahawks already currently have), but it looked as though you were accepting of either player ( including Icognito) neither is particularly interesting to me, quite honestly, just can't fathom a situation you would get behind a move to bring in Icognito.

The difference between Incognito/Martin and Irvin/Harvin is that we would not be risking first round draft choices and gobs of money for the former pair of players. If we did bring in either one of those guys, it's obvious that it would be at bargain basement prices with very little if any draft capital expended. It's all about risk/reward.

So if Pete feels good about a player, I'm all for it. I've changed somewhat over the past few years as I'm a lot more trusting in Pete's judgment than I used to be. Winning a Super Bowl tends to do that to a person.

[HumanCockroach]

Ah, so it isn't the actions that stick in your craw, it's the cost. Got it.

[Hawktawk]

"I get tired of people using their personality disorders or whatever as an excuse for blaming others for their problems."

Says the guy who just gave Incognito a pass for his entire career of being a complete jackass because he had a "personality disorder".

BTW stop using the fact that Incognito made 1 pro-bowl as some kind of validation of how he conducts himself. Charles Haley is a HOF caliber player and he's a complete piece of schit. Mark Chumra and Ben Rapelisburger made all-pro teams and they're still sexual predators. Incognito, could be a 12 time all pro and he'd still be a garabage human being.

P.S. given the results of the Wells Report, sure doesn't seem like he turned his behavior around to me. But you know if you mean that he was on just good enough behavior that he didn't have his contract voided by the special character clause within then um I guess he turned it around? That's like saying... OJ started out with murder but the most recent thing he did was beat up the owner of a pawn shop so he's clearly on the right track to rehabilitation.

You are being mentally lazy and literately challenged Kal. I never said Incognito blamed any other person for his problems.Martin is the one who did that. I said that at some point in his career Incognito realized he needed help, got it and then became a pro bowl player and respected teammate.But he didn't pack up and run for home and his trial litigation lawyer parents. I just heard a former teammate with the Dolphins who had this to say about him. " No question Ritchie comes with some baggage. But hes a great teammate, great in the locker room. And hes an even better player on the field. I wouldn't judge any team for signing Ritchie Incognito".

I cant say I know much about Haley. Chumura apparently had some problems in the hot tub with the babysitter.Rapisburgher? U want to compare his despicable behavior with Ritchie being a little uncouth while trying to lighten up a locker room that's your thing.it just illustrates the irrational hatred people have for the guy.

I also see nobody wanted to address his teammate Pouncey who was spotted in the "Free Hernandez" T shirt and also implicated in the Wells report who is still employed as is John Jerry who was also implicated. As for Wells I don't trust the billion dollar baby or its gatekeeper Goody, and I certainly don't trust his hand picked stooge to be objective. And even at that Wells had to admit that the players did not intend to harm anyone or drive Martin away from the team.


It comes back to the nation of wusses we have become, the politically correct police run amok. To me the words NFL and Bullying in the same sentence are a joke. Again,as Brett Favre said, "give me a break".

[HumanCockroach]

In WHAT way did the NFL or Goodell have any say in which players were suspended, and who was allowed to continue to play?I ain't a fan of him, or in general the way he has bastardised a game I love, and am more than willing to lay as much blame at his feet as possible, but that said, in your post you claim Kal is lazy, while blaming the league for the Dolphins decisions and actions, excuse Icognito's behavior. ( which by the way, HASN'T stopped no matter how you attempt to paint him) with some Bi polar excuse ( which FYI when on medication for the issue, you are NOT supposed to drink, which he has been seen and has had "issues" with SINCE he was in Miami).

Great you're Bi Polar, and you handle your business, bully to you, Icognito, HASN'T been, and so that is on him. Kind of how that works. You want to call Martin a wuss, fine, I'm not one to necessarily disagree on that count, doesn't make Icognito any less culpable for his actions. How many "chances" does the guy need? 4 pro teams, over 10 years, and a college team and he HAS had issues ( serious issues both on and off the field) at them all.

No one is biting on the he is just misunderstood defense, no one is biting on the he went to one pro bow, and no one is biting on the he has a disease so he isn't responsible for his actions, no one is believing the conspiracy NFL and Goodall are telling the Phins what to do, so I really am not sure what you are attempting to accomplish??

[Eaglehawk]

As far as MI,

the last straw for me was him ruining his Ferrari with a baseball bat outside his home.
The dude has issues.

[RiverDog]

Ah, so it isn't the actions that stick in your craw, it's the cost. Got it.

Ah, no, you don't got it. Risk/reward.

[kalibane]

Hawk you are the only one with an agenda here. Your agenda can be seen in every one of these kinds of threads. I read the 144 page report did you? If you did and you are still calling what Incognito did "a little uncouth" you have some of your own issues you need to work through. You're flat out wrong.

No one is talking about Pouncey here because no one is defending Pouncey here (even you, which just exposes another instance of inconsistancy on your part). I'm sure Pouncey and Jerry will be suspended and they should be the process is not over yet. Furthermore, Incognito was far and away the leader of this whole culture in the locker room. Pouncey and Jerry were his cronies. When you're the leader you assume more responsibility, that's how it works.

This wasn't just hazing, and ex-player after ex-player has come out and said they've never seen something go this far. Couple that with Incognito's history and he deserves every bit of negative publicity he gets. I mean after the report came out and it talks about how Martin was having suicidal thoughts this clown is STILL out there cracking jokes on Twitter by linking the suicide hotline. He doesn't get it and neither do you. He's an idiot and an asshole and a locker room problem every single place he's been.

Martin is actually one of the lesser concerns. The way he was harrassing the trainer was unacceptable. That guy has no ability to stand up to Incognito and Pouncey physically, his direct supervisor was taking party in all the harrassment so reporting to him is useless... and he has legimitate concern that if he makes a big stink about it that the Dolphins are going to side with the guy who makes millions over the guy who makes 30,000 and can easily be replaced.

I know why you're defending Incognito and it's dissapointing. It's also a joke. Dude is a piece of garbage. He reaped what he had sewn and that's all there is to it.

[RiverDog]

"I said that at some point in his career Incognito realized he needed help, got it and then became a pro bowl player and respected teammate.."

Well, apparently it didn't work because he just checked himself back in.

And I wish you would get off this "respected teammate" line. It doesn't matter if the majority of his teammates liked him or not. Ever heard of mob rule? The majority can often times be in the wrong, and can be disillusioned by a popular individual. It's irrelevant in this case. That's why Kal was citing guys like Worthlessburger and Haley that were also popular teammates.

A little off topic here, but the majority/mob rule analogy reminds me of a documentary I saw about the assassination of President Lincoln. Immediately after the assassination there were mobs all over the country that were rounding up anyone and everyone they thought was John Wilkes Booth. A mob of several hundred cornered one individual that looked like Booth and were about to hang him until someone in the mob said "Hey, this isn't Booth!", to which someone else said..."well, let's hang him anyway."

[Hawktawk]

Hawk you are the only one with an agenda here. Your agenda can be seen in every one of these kinds of threads. I read the 144 page report did you? If you did and you are still calling what Incognito did "a little uncouth" you have some of your own issues you need to work through. You're flat out wrong.

No one is talking about Pouncey here because no one is defending Pouncey here (even you, which just exposes another instance of inconsistancy on your part). I'm sure Pouncey and Jerry will be suspended and they should be the process is not over yet. Furthermore, Incognito was far and away the leader of this whole culture in the locker room. Pouncey and Jerry were his cronies. When you're the leader you assume more responsibility, that's how it works.

This wasn't just hazing, and ex-player after ex-player has come out and said they've never seen something go this far. Couple that with Incognito's history and he deserves every bit of negative publicity he gets. I mean after the report came out and it talks about how Martin was having suicidal thoughts this clown is STILL out there cracking jokes on Twitter by linking the suicide hotline. He doesn't get it and neither do you. He's an idiot and an asshole and a locker room problem every single place he's been.

Martin is actually one of the lesser concerns. The way he was harrassing the trainer was unacceptable. That guy has no ability to stand up to Incognito and Pouncey physically, his direct supervisor was taking party in all the harrassment so reporting to him is useless... and he has legimitate concern that if he makes a big stink about it that the Dolphins are going to side with the guy who makes millions over the guy who makes 30,000 and can easily be replaced.

I know why you're defending Incognito and it's dissapointing. It's also a joke. Dude is a piece of garbage. He reaped what he had sewn and that's all there is to it.

OK Kal fair is fair. No I haven't read the report cover to cover ,only salient excerpts and this will be my last words on the subject until I have.

But I read the texts, over 1000 of them. IMO it was 2 big rowdy boys, buddies who hung out together, went to bars, restaurants and strip clubs and chased tail.The texts were initiated by both guys. They talked about drugs,swapped inappropriate pictures and jokes and racial and homophobic slurs back and forth. Incognito came across to me (and his Dolphins teammates)as a big brother type figure, someone who was trying to keep Martin motivated, working out etc. I just didn't see the monster.

My point which I don't think anyone quite gets is the double standard that was applied by the media and the Dolphins organization. Yes I am defending Incognito right now, and Pouncey, and Jerry, and the coaches, and the players who almost unanimously supported Incognito and as RD has said their "mob mentality" LMAO WTF. Comparing locker room hazing to hanging an innocent man or raping a few women. And Kal for all the players who said nothing like that ever happened in their locker room there were plenty who said it did.

Red Bryant recently admitted even a veteran like Cliff Avril took some time to adjust to the merciless jawing he got from our locker room. Red made these comments in the context of Michael Sam and whether the Hawks would feel comfortable "being themselves". Its how it is. The NFL is a place for strong thick skinned men not weak men.
John Martin cry me a river. Get your therapy and go do something else. But mark my words the league hasn't heard the last of the guy. I bet he tries to return, is rebuffed and sues the crap out of someone.

I don't think anyone deserved to be suspended or fired. I think the big baby Martin needed to man the F up or go home like Moffit had the balls to do. Moffet had his problems with the entire culture and business and he addressed them but he didn't throw anyone on his team under the bus.

[kalibane]

The exchanges between Incognito, Pouncey, Jerry and Martin, the trainer and prior players went beyond genial ribbing. They were pushing and pushing Martin (as well as others). Two of the entries in the fine book that Incognito tried to have destroyed were a fine against himself for "breaking" Jonathan Martin and a bonus for one of the other young linemen for not breaking first.

The group of Pouncey, Jerry and Incognito, led by Incognito were targeting certain individuals they perceived as weak and systematically attacking them and breaking them down and they meant to do it. Maybe not drive Martin from the team altogether but it was not "all in good fun". It was malicious and targeted. You and others talk about how Martin was friendly with him at times as evidence that "it wasn't a big deal". But even that is part of classic bullying behavior, the hot/cold treatment makes everything even more unpredictable and creates more stress. Yes it sounds a little silly to talk about Bullying in the context of grown men, and maybe Martin really is "too soft" for the NFL but that doesn't make what Incognito did acceptable in any way.

I also have an issue with you acting like Martin was looking for an escape and an excuse because he couldn't hack it. You talk about how talented Incognito is but you don't think about the fact that Martin was a 2nd round pick (pretty talented) and they thought enough of him before the season to let go of Jake Long and trust their new would-be franchise QB's blindside to Martin. That doesn't sound like a guy that just "can't play". Furthermore, Martin didn't run to the press. He left the team and didn't tell anyone why. Then he checked himself into a pyschiatric facility. (the same thing you are praising Incognito for doing now).

It became a story because beat reporters are obviously going to realize "Where's Jonathan Martin"? The story initially was that Martin left the team. Then reporters started digging into it and they discovered that he left the team after the incident in the Cafeteria. They kept digging into it and started finding out that there might be "bullying" going on in the locker room. They kept digging and found that Incognito was the guy likely responsible. They kept digging and found out Martin checked into a psychiatric facility. Martin didn't say a single word about it until the story was a national story and completely out of control and he basically had to address it. You're in classic blame the victim mode.

The whole thing is a complete mess and although Martin may not be as mentally strong as you'd like and was likely suffering from extreme depression. Would you like to see someone handle this better? Sure but that doesn't make him the responsible party in this. Incognito was the instigator of the entire thing and engaged in a 2 year long oddessy of going after this guy. His words (particularly about his family) went way over the line of "horseplay". And when you combine that with his overall history (being run out of every place he played football). He gets no benefit of the doubt.

[c_hawkbob]

The exchanges between Incognito, Pouncey, Jerry and Martin, the trainer and prior players went beyond genial ribbing. They were pushing and pushing Martin (as well as others). Two of the entries in the fine book that Incognito tried to have destroyed were a fine against himself for "breaking" Jonathan Martin and a bonus for one of the other young linemen for not breaking first.

The group of Pouncey, Jerry and Incognito, led by Incognito were targeting certain individuals they perceived as weak and systematically attacking them and breaking them down and they meant to do it. Maybe not drive Martin from the team altogether but it was not "all in good fun". It was malicious and targeted. You and others talk about how Martin was friendly with him at times as evidence that "it wasn't a big deal". But even that is part of classic bullying behavior, the hot/cold treatment makes everything even more unpredictable and creates more stress. Yes it sounds a little silly to talk about Bullying in the context of grown men, and maybe Martin really is "too soft" for the NFL but that doesn't make what Incognito did acceptable in any way.

I also have an issue with you acting like Martin was looking for an escape and an excuse because he couldn't hack it. You talk about how talented Incognito is but you don't think about the fact that Martin was a 2nd round pick (pretty talented) and they thought enough of him before the season to let go of Jake Long and trust their new would-be franchise QB's blindside to Martin. That doesn't sound like a guy that just "can't play". Furthermore, Martin didn't run to the press. He left the team and didn't tell anyone why. Then he checked himself into a pyschiatric facility. (the same thing you are praising Incognito for doing now).

It became a story because beat reporters are obviously going to realize "Where's Jonathan Martin"? The story initially was that Martin left the team. Then reporters started digging into it and they discovered that he left the team after the incident in the Cafeteria. They kept digging into it and started finding out that there might be "bullying" going on in the locker room. They kept digging and found that Incognito was the guy likely responsible. They kept digging and found out Martin checked into a psychiatric facility. Martin didn't say a single word about it until the story was a national story and completely out of control and he basically had to address it. You're in classic blame the victim mode.

The whole thing is a complete mess and although Martin may not be as mentally strong as you'd like and was likely suffering from extreme depression. Would you like to see someone handle this better? Sure but that doesn't make him the responsible party in this. Incognito was the instigator of the entire thing and engaged in a 2 year long oddessy of going after this guy. His words (particularly about his family) went way over the line of "horseplay". And when you combine that with his overall history (being run out of every place he played football). He gets no benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for writing that out Kal.

[RiverDog]

Anyone recall what Incognito's first reaction to the news that Jonathan Martin had quit the team? He bragged to others that he had finally broken JMart.

[HumanCockroach]

Anyone recall what Incognito's first reaction to the news that Jonathan Martin had quit the team? He bragged to others that he had finally broken JMart.

All in good fun..... SMH... Icognito is a douche, period. Martin may indeed be a puss, but not sure that absolves Icognito in any way. If someone is good at being a "victim" and some comes along and attacks them, why would it absolve the attacker of his actions?

[Hawktawk]

OK Ive read the Wells report. It doesn't really change my overall perspective on the situation other than to give me a better sense of what led Martin to respond as he did. And as such I can sympathize with him more. I didn't and don't accept the concept of "Bullying" at the NFL level, but I certainly understand and experienced it at the high school level. My basic position that Martin was unfit for the meat market that is the NFL locker room is unchanged. Clearly this young man has some deep seated issues with self confidence and being able to express himself.

Tyson Clabo is the latest of several current and former Dolphins to criticize the Wells report as an inaccurate portrayal of the actions and intent of Incognito and the other perpetrators. He said that the pranks were "some of the funniest things he has ever seen to the point where everyone was literally falling out of their chair laughing". He said when you replay some of these jokes and pranks out of the context in which they actually happened it just doesn't translate.

The "unnamed lineman" McDonald said he never felt harassed and was devastated to hear the offensive line coach had been fired.And he and not Martin was the one presented with a male blow up doll.
Crude humor? Insensitive? yeah but its the way it is.Its an NFL locker room, maybe a bit extreme but probably less than is portrayed. Other players have also criticized the report. But the common theme with all of them including Incognito is that they wish they would have known how Martin really felt, because he never said a word to anyone before leaving the team.Wells report states that the players did not intend to drive Martin away from the team. Thats the most common theme for me, a bunch of clueless meat heads, NFL ballplayers unable to sense the true mental anguish of a teammate and him being unable to express his true feelings. Its really pretty sad for a lot of people, not just Martin or Incognito.