Cohen on Capital Hill

[burrrton]

I'm not trying to change your opinion that Trump is not a racist

I didn't say he's not- it's just something I reserve judgment on until there are real examples of it beyond clumsily worded statements and mischaracterizations.

Also, I don't like non-falsifiable charges of something as serious as that. It dilutes it, rendering it virtually meaningless, which is about where we are these days.

That's all.

[Hawktawk]

The guy took 3 days to disavow David Duke during his campaign. he said there were "very fine people" among the neo nazis that resulted in a death and marched with torches chanting "blood and soil" in charlottesville. He said of american indian born Judge Curiel who was adjudicating his phony Trump university lawsuit that he could not fairly judge the case because he was a "mexican". Speaker of the house Paul ryan said it was "the classic definition of a racist statement". His code words such as drug dealers and rapists do describe with one broad paintbrush the desperate brown skinned people at the southern border are racist dog whistles as well. His comments about primarily black media figures and politicians who dare criticize him as being "low IQ" is classic racist pigeonholing. And plenty of people from his former circle have alluded to his use of the N word including a former WH press person I've heard on tape discussing how to put in context the way in which he had used the word..

Not sure if Burton still reads me or not but if you do I see where you said Republicans have been accused of racism before and I completely agree. My observation is that the Trump party blindly enabling Trump has peeled the scab off the festering wound and brought to the forefront every negative stereotype I and millions of other republicans have spent decades trying to dispel.

[RiverDog]

The guy took 3 days to disavow David Duke during his campaign. he said there were "very fine people" among the neo nazis that resulted in a death and marched with torches chanting "blood and soil" in charlottesville. He said of american indian born Judge Curiel who was adjudicating his phony Trump university lawsuit that he could not fairly judge the case because he was a "mexican". Speaker of the house Paul ryan said it was "the classic definition of a racist statement". His code words such as drug dealers and rapists do describe with one broad paintbrush the desperate brown skinned people at the southern border are racist dog whistles as well. His comments about primarily black media figures and politicians who dare criticize him as being "low IQ" is classic racist pigeonholing. And plenty of people from his former circle have alluded to his use of the N word including a former WH press person I've heard on tape discussing how to put in context the way in which he had used the word.

All good points.

Not sure if Burton still reads me or not but if you do I see where you said Republicans have been accused of racism before and I completely agree. My observation is that the Trump party blindly enabling Trump has peeled the scab off the festering wound and brought to the forefront every negative stereotype I and millions of other republicans have spent decades trying to dispel.

That's another fair point. As far as racial assessments go, conservatives have been the victims of stereotyping by the left ever since Roosevelt. The problem is that sometimes it rings true. Even though most R's/conservatives will reject their association with them, it's a fact that racist groups like the KKK are more likely to call themselves R's than they are D's. That's why it's essential that when Donald Trump has an opportunity to call out a murder like he had after Charlottesville that he seize the bully pulpit and call them out for the POS trash that they are. DTJ will fire off the most offensive, corrosive tirades on Twitter aimed at people with the mildest of disagreements with him yet all we get from him after a murder in Charlottesville is "many sides" were responsible.

It's the very same lack of insensitivity that Trump displayed to the family of Otto Warmbier while he heaps loads of praise onto his murderer in Kim Jong Un and earlier when he heaped praise onto the Saudi prince in the Khashoggi murder. When it comes to being the leader of the free world, Donald Trump simply does not have a moral compass to tell him what's right and what this country should stand for and why it's so easy for me to buy into the narrative of his being a racist.

[burrrton]

All good points.

They're almost all examples of what I said it would be: mischaracterizations and clumsily worded statements.

David Duke: He didn't disavow him quickly enough, so *he's* the racist?

"Very fine people on both sides": Clumsily worded, but he was referring to the pro- and anti-statue crowds. It takes the least charitable way to read his comments to even get to this weak of an example.

The "mexican" judge: Yeah, kinda racist. Hardly egregious, but fair.

"Code words" and "dog whistles": You know who can hear dog whistles? Dogs.

"Black media figures" being "low IQ": This illustrates the bubble some people live in. It's a talking point- he's called people of all races, creeds, colors, and religions "low IQ" (you can search Twitter- there are people who ran down every example). Is it stupid and unbecoming? Yes. Is it "racist"? Not close.

Dial back the outrage from 11 and start reserving the charge of "racist" for people who truly deserve it.

buy into the narrative of his being a racist.

Perfectly worded. You're buying into a narrative.

[Aseahawkfan]

The guy took 3 days to disavow David Duke during his campaign. he said there were "very fine people" among the neo nazis that resulted in a death and marched with torches chanting "blood and soil" in charlottesville. He said of american indian born Judge Curiel who was adjudicating his phony Trump university lawsuit that he could not fairly judge the case because he was a "mexican". Speaker of the house Paul ryan said it was "the classic definition of a racist statement". His code words such as drug dealers and rapists do describe with one broad paintbrush the desperate brown skinned people at the southern border are racist dog whistles as well. His comments about primarily black media figures and politicians who dare criticize him as being "low IQ" is classic racist pigeonholing. And plenty of people from his former circle have alluded to his use of the N word including a former WH press person I've heard on tape discussing how to put in context the way in which he had used the word.

All good points.

I want you to explain to me how a guy in the public eye for literally decades including a wildly popular show suddenly became a racist once he ran for Republican president?

Once again you falling for media BS. I fact checked all that trash. Which is exactly what I'm talking about with the media painting Trump as a racist.

Trump didn't know who David Duke was. He honestly didn't know who he was or what the media was talking about. Which should not surprise you at all given how he doesn't even keep in touch with other members of his cabinet.

The Charlottesville groups did include groups protesting for non-racial reasons. I checked this as well. Sure enough it wasn't just a bunch of neo-Nazis as the press reported marching. It was a bunch of racist groups mixed in with pro-South folks marching for different reasons, some racial and some for preserving their Southern heritage.

As far as the statement on the Mexican judge,I hear this about white folk all the time. Stating the judge may have a racial bias because the question was based on Mexican immigrants is racist how? if a black person questions whether a white jury might judge them fairly shows they're racist? Oh wait,other ethnic groups can't be racist. I forgot.

Sorry, once again the points listed were all taken out of context and blown up by the media. Dig deeper into them and you find Trump's reactions were based on different information.

It's the very same lack of insensitivity that Trump displayed to the family of Otto Warmbier while he heaps loads of praise onto his murderer in Kim Jong Un and earlier when he heaped praise onto the Saudi prince in the Khashoggi murder. When it comes to being the leader of the free world, Donald Trump simply does not have a moral compass to tell him what's right and what this country should stand for and why it's so easy for me to buy into the narrative of his being a racist.

The United States president is not the leader of the free world. That is more media trash and ego pumping to get America to spend that money abroad and drag us into conflicts we don't need to be in. As long as Americans keep believing trash like that will have us spending that cash while the rest of the world leaders laugh at us while our money and men end up in conflicts they don't care about and just want to make money off of us.

America should be dealing like the rest of the world: on behalf of its people for their betterment. Not the "leader of the free world."

[Aseahawkfan]

I can remember reading about a Supreme Court justice, Potter Stewart, when they were debating what constituted obscenity, and gave what I thought was a perfect answer:

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard-core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

That's how I feel about the questions being posed to me about whether or not Donald Trump is a racist. I am not going to engage you any further in an attempt to qualify a very subjective opinion. All I'm going to say is that I know a racist when I see one, and Trump is a racist.

One small point, Muslim is a religion, not a race. Trump has done business with plenty of Muslims and counts many as friends as far as I know.

I still don't understand how a guy in the public eye that has partied and socialized with folk of all different backgrounds for decades suddenly becomes a racist when he runs for Republican president. Explain that to me.

Would you characterize Trump as notoriously private? Would you characterize him as some hidden figure? How many people has Trump socialized with? Given the sheer number of celebrities and public people in general Trump has been around, why aren't folk coming out of the woodwork with Trump used racial epithets. Trump sent money to the KKK. Trump said said, Trump said that. All of the evidence Trump is racist is from a liberal media taking statements made while he was catering to a pro strong immigration control crowd.

Sorry, man, you're just making assumptions and buying into the liberal bias machine. Donald Trump isn't some private individual we're just finding out about now. He's literally a world renowned figure with contacts personal and business world wide that has been in the public eye most of his adult life that decided to run for Republican president. The liberal media has successfully sold him as racist to you and most of the left like they do with every Republican president on the barest of evidence.

I'm not buying it. If you called Trump a narcissist, I'd agree with you completely. You want to call him a rude jerk, I'd be there with you. But I've followed this guy for decades and this the first I've ever seen him called a racist. The guy used to donate to liberal organizations like the NAACP and the like. He got along with many professional athletes, businessmen, celebrities, and the like of African and other descents promoting them with his name and speaking well of them. Only now as Republican candidate and president did he get termed a racist and sexist. The liberals do it every single time. Just happens you're buying into it because it sounds like you knew absolutely nothing about Donald Trump until he made his run at the presidency building his base on the birther BS which I don't even believe he believed.

[RiverDog]

All good points.

They're almost all examples of what I said it would be: mischaracterizations and clumsily worded statements.

I agree, under normal circumstances, they might be considered a mischaracterization or clumsily worded statements if they came from your or me. But the problem is that the shoe fits so easily on Trump that it's a matter of putting 2 and 2 together. Except when it advances a political cause of his, like the victims of those murdered by illegal aliens, Donald Trump does not have the capacity to exhibit any kind of sympathetic awareness when it comes to the plight of those that are not as fortunate as he is. He demonstrated this insensitivity and lack of a moral compass in the Khashoggi murder and just last week in his love affair with a murderous tyrant like Kim.

Dial back the outrage from 11 and start reserving the charge of "racist" for people who truly deserve it. This list illustrates you might be misapplying it with Trump.

As I said earlier, there are different degrees of racism. Go back into the not too distant past when sportscasters almost subconsciously used to consistently refer to black athletes as "natural born athletes, physically talented" and white athletes as "smart, heady, clever" etc. They were not mean spirited or caustic and those that said them don't deserve to be castigated for them, but they were still racist and had to be called out if we were to learn anything about our bias.

[burrrton]

Go back into the not too distant past when sportscasters almost subconsciously used to consistently refer to black athletes as "natural born athletes, physically talented" and white athletes as "smart, heady, clever" etc. They were not mean spirited or caustic and those that said them don't deserve to be castigated for them, but they were still racist and had to be called out if we were to learn anything about our bias.

Those kind of characterizations were biased at worst, probably subconsciously, and there's *no way* anyone would have called the sportscasters "RACISTS!" for them.

You're describing how you connected all the dots to get to Trump (arguably) being a racist, but as asea points out, this is a guy that has been in the public eye for decades- if he was the racist you and others are painting him as, there would be zero dot-connecting required.

[RiverDog]

I can remember reading about a Supreme Court justice, Potter Stewart, when they were debating what constituted obscenity, and gave what I thought was a perfect answer:

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard-core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

That's how I feel about the questions being posed to me about whether or not Donald Trump is a racist. I am not going to engage you any further in an attempt to qualify a very subjective opinion. All I'm going to say is that I know a racist when I see one, and Trump is a racist.

One small point, Muslim is a religion, not a race. Trump has done business with plenty of Muslims and counts many as friends as far as I know.

I think we all understand the difference between race, religion, native language, national origin, etc. But for the purposes of this discussion, we've been treating them as one and the same.

I still don't understand how a guy in the public eye that has partied and socialized with folk of all different backgrounds for decades suddenly becomes a racist when he runs for Republican president. Explain that to me.

Who said Trump "suddenly became a racist when he ran as a Republican?" I didn't.

People can disguise their true emotions when the need arises. I've seen former teammates of mine that were extremely racist yet they got along just fine with blacks or Hispanics when the situation called for it.

Would you characterize Trump as notoriously private? Would you characterize him as some hidden figure? How many people has Trump socialized with? Given the sheer number of celebrities and public people in general Trump has been around, why aren't folk coming out of the woodwork with Trump used racial epithets. Trump sent money to the KKK. Trump said said, Trump said that. All of the evidence Trump is racist is from a liberal media taking statements made while he was catering to a pro strong immigration control crowd.

Sorry, man, you're just making assumptions and buying into the liberal bias machine. Donald Trump isn't some private individual we're just finding out about now. He's literally a world renowned figure with contacts personal and business world wide that has been in the public eye most of his adult life that decided to run for Republican president. The liberal media has successfully sold him as racist to you and most of the left like they do with every Republican president on the barest of evidence.

I'm not buying it. If you called Trump a narcissist, I'd agree with you completely. You want to call him a rude jerk, I'd be there with you. But I've followed this guy for decades and this the first I've ever seen him called a racist. The guy used to donate to liberal organizations like the NAACP and the like. He got along with many professional athletes, businessmen, celebrities, and the like of African and other descents promoting them with his name and speaking well of them. Only now as Republican candidate and president did he get termed a racist and sexist. The liberals do it every single time. Just happens you're buying into it because it sounds like you knew absolutely nothing about Donald Trump until he made his run at the presidency building his base on the birther BS which I don't even believe he believed.

Please don't accuse me of being a liberal or adapting their philosophy. I've been a conservative all my life, have yet to vote for a Democratic candidate for POTUS, and only once voted for one in a federal election. I intentionally get my news from multiple, diverse sources in a conscious effort to maintain my objectivity as best I can. But in this case, much like a broken clock, the liberals just happened to be right about Trump's racism.

I said once that I was done explaining my opinion on Trump's racism, and I've broken that pledge several times. I'm tired of debating it. Let me just say that what I feel is a racist attitude is just one relatively small component in the equation that causes me to feel that he's not a good representative of our country and what we stand for.

[burrrton]

Who said Trump "suddenly became a racist when he ran as a Republican?" I didn't.

You didn't say it, and you didn't have to- it's a fact on the ground.

He's been all over magazines and newspapers for most of my adult life and I'd never seen him referred to as a racist until he became the (R) nominee.

[RiverDog]

Go back into the not too distant past when sportscasters almost subconsciously used to consistently refer to black athletes as "natural born athletes, physically talented" and white athletes as "smart, heady, clever" etc. They were not mean spirited or caustic and those that said them don't deserve to be castigated for them, but they were still racist and had to be called out if we were to learn anything about our bias.

hose kind of characterizations were biased at worst, probably subconsciously, and there's *no way* anyone would have called the sportscasters "RACISTS!" for them.

Didn't I say that they were subconscious? Did I call the sportswriters/broadcasters racists? I said that their comments were racist.

You're describing how you connected all the dots to get to Trump (arguably) being a racist, but as asea points out, this is a guy that has been in the public eye for decades- if he was the racist you and others are painting him as, there would be zero dot-connecting required.

And as I said before, I'm tired of detailing to you guys exactly why I think DJT is a racist. I've tried answering your questions and statements the best I can, but to no avail. If you don't accept my analysis, then that's fine by me, but please take what I've said for whatever you may find it's worth, understand that I have my reasons for my belief, and accept it for what it is: An opinion.

[burrrton]

Did I call the sportswriters/broadcasters racists? I said that their comments were racist.

*sigh* You presented them as examples of how you get to calling Trump a racist.

If you don't accept my analysis, then that's fine by me, but please take what I've said for whatever you may find it's worth, understand that I have my reasons for my belief, and accept it for what it is: An opinion.

No, it's you "buying into a narrative" by your own admission.

[Hawktawk]

I forgot the full page ad he took out calling for the death penalty for 5 black kids accused of murder in NY back in the day. Even after they were absolved of responsibility he stuck to his guns and never apologized. It’s a far more convoluted argument he’s not a racist then he is. But some who say they are neutral still make that argument. No argument he’s a complete POS waste of oxygen but many disagree with that as well.

[RiverDog]

I forgot the full page ad he took out calling for the death penalty for 5 black kids accused of murder in NY back in the day. Even after they were absolved of responsibility he stuck to his guns and never apologized. It’s a far more convoluted argument he’s not a racist then he is. But some who say they are neutral still make that argument. No argument he’s a complete POS waste of oxygen but many disagree with that as well.

Your comment got me to looking. The incident you are referring to is known as the "Central Park 5". In the article, I stumbled onto this little tidbit:

One year after the Central Park Five were convicted, John O’Donnell, a former executive who ran Trump Plaza hotel and casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey, published a tell-all alluding to his former boss’s casual racism behind closed doors.

He quoted Trump as saying: “I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

In a later interview with Playboy magazine, Trump labelled his former employee a “f&cking loser” but added: “The stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-new-york

That should pretty much negate any claims of Trump's not being a racist if Trump himself admits to making those kinds of statements.

[burrrton]

That should pretty much negate any claims of Trump's not being a racist if Trump himself admits to making those kinds of statements.

Look, I'm done defending him, and I'll admit that does sound bad.

However, would you be surprised if Trump wasn't even aware of half the stuff O'Donnell wrote about him? More importantly, does it not give you a little pause that you had to back 30 years to a second-hand account to find something that ugly on an alleged full-on racist that's been all over TV, newspapers, and magazines his entire adult life?

[RiverDog]

That should pretty much negate any claims of Trump's not being a racist if Trump himself admits to making those kinds of statements.

Look, I'm done defending him, and I'll admit that does sound bad.

However, would you be surprised if Trump wasn't even aware of half the stuff O'Donnell wrote about him? More importantly, does it not give you a little pause that you had to back 30 years to a second-hand account to find something that ugly?

OK, fair enough. I guess if I'm going to rip those that were using 37 year old "information" against Kavanaugh I shouldn't be doing essentially the same thing about Trump.

So how about we go back just under 3 years?

In May (of 2016), Trump implied that Gonzalo Curiel, the federal judge presiding over a class action against the for-profit Trump University, could not fairly hear the case because of his Mexican heritage.

“He’s a Mexican,” Trump told CNN of Curiel. “We’re building a wall between here and Mexico. The answer is, he is giving us very unfair rulings — rulings that people can’t even believe.” Curiel, it should be noted, is an American citizen who was born in Indiana. And as a prosecutor in the late 1990s, he went after Mexican drug cartels, making him a target for assassination by a Tijuana drug lord.

Even members of Trump’s own party slammed the racist remarks. “Claiming a person can’t do their job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment,” House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said in a reaction to Trump’s comments, though he clarified that he still endorses the nominee.

The comments against Curiel didn’t sit well with the American public either. According to a YouGov poll released in June (of 2016), 51 percent of those surveyed agreed that Trump’s comments were not only wrong, but also racist.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/do ... 60bf777e83

[burrrton]

I admitted that one sounds bad, too, but if we're going to call that (saying a person's heritage might impact their impartiality) full-blown racism (which, again, isn't wholly unreasonable), we've got a whole lotta racists, including on our Supreme Court and in Congress.

[RiverDog]

A person could excuse one or two of those remarks, especially those I dug up from 30 years ago, as people do change, my favorite example being that of George Wallace in the 60's vs. in the 80's and 90's. But when they're scattered all over a person's lifetime and continue to this day, it gets more and more difficult to dismiss them as simply "sounding bad".

Edit: I never said that Trump was a "full blown racist." We're all racist to some degree. But Donald Trump is the President of the United States, and IMO the bar for our tolerance for an individual's racism should be set higher for that position than it would for a mere Congressman or even a SCOTUS justice. IMO Trump's racism is simply not appropriate for the job he now holds.

[burrrton]

But when they're scattered all over a person's lifetime and continue to this day, it gets more and more difficult to dismiss them as simply "sounding bad".

But that's the thing- they're not scattered all over his lifetime- we have two valid criticisms, one a second-hand account from decades ago, and one from recently that certainly flirts with it but hardly places him among the tiki-torch-carrying white supremacy skidmarks.

The rest appear to be confirmation bias, but you seem to be comfortable calling someone a racist based on it.

I've known racists- I don't have to dig for examples of their racism, examples that almost literally everyone that knew them could confirm. And these aren't racists that have been on the cover of People magazine for most of their lives.

[RiverDog]

But that's the thing- they're not scattered all over his lifetime- we have two valid criticisms, one a second-hand account from decades ago, and one from recently that certainly flirts with it but hardly places him among the tiki-torch-carrying white supremacy skidmarks.

Once again, I never placed Trump among tiki-torch carrying white supremacy skidmarks, and once again, you're over dramatizing my remarks by suggesting that I did. Are you intentionally trying to make me look extreme?

And they are, indeed, scattered all over his lifetime. From Fortune Magazine:

For the long followers of Trump’s career, however, none of these incendiary remarks are especially surprising. Trump has a long record as a provocateur on matters of race and ethnicity.

Whether he’s mocking Chinese businesspeople with broken English, contorting his body to make fun of a disabled reporter, or calling out to “my African American,” again and again, Trump has provoked anxiety and played to racial divisions.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-tr ... sm-quotes/

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck.

[Hawktawk]

Trump is a racially insensitive jackass at a minimum. As to Burt’s comment about if he is there’s lots of them in the judiciary and congress you are correct sir.

There are. Sessions is one of them . There’s plenty more.It’s all relative. These aren’t KKK guys, just garden variety racists which is still damn sad as leaders of our country. There’s plenty of racists on both sides of the chamber , all colors, anti semites, radicals . Our governance in general is a dumpster fire.

[burrrton]

Are you intentionally trying to make me look extreme?

Oh for chrissakes- I'm not the one calling people racists based on "buying into narratives" and comments I dug up of them "playing into racial divisions". You don't have to do that with actual racists that have been in the media spotlight for half a century.

If you want to call him a racist, do it, but own it and quit with the hair splitting. If you don't like being characterized as someone calling someone else a racist, stop doing it. It's a serious charge, and "I didn't say he was a *RACIST* racist!" doesn't change that.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck.

How about if someone else called it a duck, and you found a 30 year old quote from someone that said he said "quack", and you found another quote where he said something that sounded like "kack" and you decided to take that as dispositive of him saying "quack" because you bought into the narrative?

I see something that walked a little bit like a duck, made an "ack" sound at a couple points, but otherwise exhibits few traits that a duck would exhibit.

[edit]

I'm done with this thread. You guys go ahead and keep yelling "UR RAYCISS" at everyone you don't like if you want. Just know you're making it harder on people who deal with actual racism, and they do exist.

[RiverDog]

Are you intentionally trying to make me look extreme?

Oh for chrissakes- I'm not the one calling people racists based on "buying into narratives" and comments I dug up of them "playing into racial divisions". You don't have to do that with actual racists that have been in the media spotlight for half a century.

If you want to call him a racist, do it, but own it and quit with the hair splitting. If you don't like being characterized as someone calling someone else a racist, stop doing it. It's a serious charge, and "I didn't say he was a *RACIST* racist!" doesn't change that.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are varying degrees of racism. You seem to be claiming that either your a racist that sides with the tiki torch carrying skidmarks or your as pure as the wind driven snow, and in order to make your argument look stronger are trying to push my POV further from the center than I've intended it to be.

I'm done with this thread. You guys go ahead and keep yelling "UR RAYCISS" at everyone you don't like if you want. Just know you're making it harder on people who deal with actual racism, and they do exist.

Once again, you're being intentionally absurd to make the argument look extreme. Except to note that racism exists to some degree within everyone, I have not yelled "UR RAYCISS" at anyone except Trump. And I don't know WTF you're talking about by me making it harder for someone to deal with racism. You're going way over the top.

It's probably time to agree to disagree on this before it gets out of hand. IMO Trump is a racist. You don't agree, which is fine by me.

[Aseahawkfan]

Who said Trump "suddenly became a racist when he ran as a Republican?" I didn't.

Don't try to BS me, man. You didn't even think about Trump before he ran for president. And you're entire view of him as a racist is based on how the left sold him as one.

It has been pointed out to you multiple time that travel ban is the same imposed by Obama and Bush Jr. in the past. It has been pointed out to you that the border policy is the same enforced by Obama. It has been pointed out to you that Obama did more drone killing than Trump meaning more Middle Eastern Muslims killed by a signature from the president. Yet in your mind Trump is more racist than Obama even with evidence to the contrary basted solely on how the press has sold him because you know next to nothing else about what Trump has been up to prior to his presidential run and attack on the White House.

Yet here I am telling you I've been following this guy for decades, since I was 16 years old and read his book. I watched his show every year. I've read on his businesses. I've watched him on TV. He's been a public figure for decades hobnobbing with Hollywood, big businessmen, politicians, and the like. He's literally one of the most well known names in the world.

And he didn't become a racist until he ran for president as a Republican with a strong immigration control policy.

So you tell me what is likely true: that a decades old public figure dealing with all segments of society who has been on TV for over 15 years suddenly became an incredible racist or the press successfully branded him a racist and a bunch of folks like you bought in hook, line, and sinker because you don't like him and don't want to admit you're wrong.

I'm going with the former because if Trump had been a racist, they would have a lot more material than they have to prove it. He's literally been a public figure for 40 years in the most well-known city in America and on TV for 15 plus years hobnobbing with celebrities and people of all races, creeds, and religions for years> He's also not doing any policy that hasn't been done in the past save for his wall which was a campaign promise.

Sorry, you've just been had by the press. It happens to everyone. The press is extremely powerful, left wing mostly, and likes to paint anyone with a strong immigration, pro-America policy as a racist.

I'm not telling you to like Trump. But this branding him as a racist is BS. I've never liked how the left has been able to brand every major Republican conservative of any prominence as a racist for far too long. It's pathetic. They also brand Trump as pro-rich, yet he's doing more to boost the working man than most. He may do more if he gets his prescription drug promise passed.

[idhawkman]

They're almost all examples of what I said it would be: mischaracterizations and clumsily worded statements.

David Duke: He didn't disavow him quickly enough, so *he's* the racist?

"Very fine people on both sides": Clumsily worded, but he was referring to the pro- and anti-statue crowds. It takes the least charitable way to read his comments to even get to this weak of an example.

The "mexican" judge: Yeah, kinda racist. Hardly egregious, but fair.

"Code words" and "dog whistles": You know who can hear dog whistles? Dogs.

"Black media figures" being "low IQ": This illustrates the bubble some people live in. It's a talking point- he's called people of all races, creeds, colors, and religions "low IQ" (you can search Twitter- there are people who ran down every example). Is it stupid and unbecoming? Yes. Is it "racist"? Not close.

Dial back the outrage from 11 and start reserving the charge of "racist" for people who truly deserve it.

Perfectly worded. You're buying into a narrative.

Best post I've seen in a while.

[idhawkman]

One small point, Muslim is a religion, not a race. Trump has done business with plenty of Muslims and counts many as friends as far as I know.

I still don't understand how a guy in the public eye that has partied and socialized with folk of all different backgrounds for decades suddenly becomes a racist when he runs for Republican president. Explain that to me.

Would you characterize Trump as notoriously private? Would you characterize him as some hidden figure? How many people has Trump socialized with? Given the sheer number of celebrities and public people in general Trump has been around, why aren't folk coming out of the woodwork with Trump used racial epithets. Trump sent money to the KKK. Trump said said, Trump said that. All of the evidence Trump is racist is from a liberal media taking statements made while he was catering to a pro strong immigration control crowd.

Sorry, man, you're just making assumptions and buying into the liberal bias machine. Donald Trump isn't some private individual we're just finding out about now. He's literally a world renowned figure with contacts personal and business world wide that has been in the public eye most of his adult life that decided to run for Republican president. The liberal media has successfully sold him as racist to you and most of the left like they do with every Republican president on the barest of evidence.

I'm not buying it. If you called Trump a narcissist, I'd agree with you completely. You want to call him a rude jerk, I'd be there with you. But I've followed this guy for decades and this the first I've ever seen him called a racist. The guy used to donate to liberal organizations like the NAACP and the like. He got along with many professional athletes, businessmen, celebrities, and the like of African and other descents promoting them with his name and speaking well of them. Only now as Republican candidate and president did he get termed a racist and sexist. The liberals do it every single time. Just happens you're buying into it because it sounds like you knew absolutely nothing about Donald Trump until he made his run at the presidency building his base on the birther BS which I don't even believe he believed.

Trump is not a racist, not a bigot, not any other "ist". He is bombastic, I'll concede that.

You have to understand what is going on with Trump and the press, establishment, deep state and everyone else who stands to lose huge amounts of money around politics. There's no way they can have Trump be successful after decades and decades of being so inept to solve problems. "IF" Trump comes in and is successful in solving issues in one or two terms, that have been around for 50+ years, it will totally destroy all the groups I outlined. So, they all have to make an example out of Trump by destroying him, his businesses, his family and all of his friends. They have to send this message so that the Howard Shultz's (founder of Starbucks), Mark Cuban and others don't come in and take their jobs away from them. Also, since none of them came up through the ranks and there's now "IOUs" against them or can't be bought off by money they have no control over these outsiders. Therefore, they have to totally destroy Trump's world so that anyone else will have their friends and family telling them NOT to run for fear that they will be the target of the media, establishment, deep state and others.

Who in their right mind around Mark Cuban or Howard Shultz will help him run? Who will volunteer for their campaign? I mean, do you (aimed at everyone on this forum) want Congress digging 20, 30 or more years into your past? Pulling up every tax return and scrutinizing it? Every business deal you ever made? Every loan app you ever filled out for even the slightest inaccuracy? I bet NONE of you would want this and would just wish them luck and ask them to never call you again. That IS the only goal of all of this. It really has nothing more to do with Trump than that.

Regarding the racist statement and to exacerbate this issue even more, look at Trump's former employee who came from a poor family in Alabama, worked their way through college and into the Trump organization and now in HUD. She even moved into the projects apartment to experience what the government provides so that she would have a better idea of what needs fixing. She stood up for Trump in the open Cohen testimony last week in congress to vouch for Trump and how he is not racist. But, the establishment couldn't let that be the narrative so they accused her of being a slave on an auction block and a prop. Now think about that for a minute and tell me who the real racist are.

[idhawkman]

A person could excuse one or two of those remarks, especially those I dug up from 30 years ago, as people do change, my favorite example being that of George Wallace in the 60's vs. in the 80's and 90's. But when they're scattered all over a person's lifetime and continue to this day, it gets more and more difficult to dismiss them as simply "sounding bad".

Edit: I never said that Trump was a "full blown racist." We're all racist to some degree. But Donald Trump is the President of the United States, and IMO the bar for our tolerance for an individual's racism should be set higher for that position than it would for a mere Congressman or even a SCOTUS justice. IMO Trump's racism is simply not appropriate for the job he now holds.

What a ridiculous statement Riv. Since in your own words, "Everyone is racist" how much is acceptable to you for President? Would 2 incidents in a person's life of over 70 years be too much especially if they are a second hand story and the other is frequently used in trials? Please expand on your "Racist Meter".

[idhawkman]

Trump is a racially insensitive jackass at a minimum. As to Burt’s comment about if he is there’s lots of them in the judiciary and congress you are correct sir.

There are. Sessions is one of them . There’s plenty more.It’s all relative. These aren’t KKK guys, just garden variety racists which is still damn sad as leaders of our country. There’s plenty of racists on both sides of the chamber , all colors, anti semites, radicals . Our governance in general is a dumpster fire.

The only KKK member of congress I know about was Robert Bird (D-WV) who was Hilliary's self professed "mentor".

Trump is an equal opportunity offender based on success and failure, PERIOD!

[idhawkman]

It's probably time to agree to disagree on this before it gets out of hand. IMO Trump is a racist. You don't agree, which is fine by me.

Yeah, but according to you, everyone is so no big deal is there? You're just saying, he's like everyone else.