College Admissions Scandal

[RiverDog]

Perhaps the biggest scandal of its type in recent memory. A couple of thoughts:

They need to come down on the perpetrators like a ton of bricks. They simply cannot let this perception of a "pay to play" system to exist in a day where the middle class is getting stuck with huge price tags for their kids to go to college as the average debt that students graduate with is over $32K. It fans the flames of class warfare, and further divides the country.

And the worst of the worst is USC. You would have thought that their athletic department would have learned their lesson back in the past decade. To be fair, there hasn't been any charges levied against the school and at this point they are limited to individuals working for the athletic department. USC has already fired several coaches and has pledged their full cooperation, but apparently they were not successful at changing the culture, as the saying goes.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... -students/

As far as any tangible damages to any individual applicants goes, I do not agree that they were disenfranchised. They were not denied access to college, just one or two specific colleges. And who knows how their careers would have turned out? A scholarship from USC is not a guarantee of success, nor is one from a less respected college a hindrance to career advancement. Plus there's no guarantee that the one or two "on the bubble" that got unfairly bumped would have succeeded. There's no way to prove damages.

[idhawkman]

As far as any tangible damages to any individual applicants goes, I do not agree that they were disenfranchised. They were not denied access to college, just one or two specific colleges. And who knows how their careers would have turned out? A scholarship from USC is not a guarantee of success, nor is one from a less respected college a hindrance to career advancement. Plus there's no guarantee that the one or two "on the bubble" that got unfairly bumped would have succeeded. There's no way to prove damages.

Totally disagree with your pov. Every one of those bought and paid for spots (many included scholarships) were taken from an eligible and deserving kid.

Regarding how their career would turn out, that's a bad example, too. Could we not make the same comment about a kid that was murdered? We don't know if he would have died from a drug overdose or ?????

Now for another thought. How many slots are being occupied by illegal aliens who are not paying out of state tuition and many are being given discounted rates? When do we say enough is enough? Either you earn it or you don't and I'm not just talking about the scholarships but also the slot. These colleges can only accept so many students a year and for everyone that should not be there or didn't earn it, there's someone who did earn it and does deserve to be there.

We can not have a two tiered system if we want to remain free.

Now to just exacerbate this issue, let's think back about your comments about how some people EARNED their wealth and some didn't. Denying the education that a kid has earned makes it that much harder for that kid to be, in your eyes, "Self Made."

[RiverDog]

Totally disagree with your pov. Every one of those bought and paid for spots (many included scholarships) were taken from an eligible and deserving kid.

That's absouletly true. My point is in determining damages. It is impossible to quantify. Heck, they wouldn't even be able to tell you specifically what students would have been chosen.

Regarding how their career would turn out, that's a bad example, too. Could we not make the same comment about a kid that was murdered? We don't know if he would have died from a drug overdose or ?????

True again, which speaks directly to my point: We cannot determine how much, if any, damage was done to some unknown student.

Now for another thought. How many slots are being occupied by illegal aliens who are not paying out of state tuition and many are being given discounted rates? When do we say enough is enough? Either you earn it or you don't and I'm not just talking about the scholarships but also the slot. These colleges can only accept so many students a year and for everyone that should not be there or didn't earn it, there's someone who did earn it and does deserve to be there.

We can not have a two tiered system if we want to remain free.

Now to just exacerbate this issue, let's think back about your comments about how some people EARNED their wealth and some didn't. Denying the education that a kid has earned makes it that much harder for that kid to be, in your eyes, "Self Made."

You're going way off topic. The OP is specifically about the college admissions scandal, not illegal aliens or who is and isn't self made. I'd be glad to debate you on those subjects in a different thread, but let's not dilute the OP. I'd still like to hear some of the other posters comments about this topic, if anyone has an opinion they'd like to run up the flagpole.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Completely agree they need to drop the hammer on these guys. Money already buys a lot, and they can fully fund their child's education, perhaps at a less prestigious school, but that's still an advantage many don't have. Not sure how you feel about Robert Heinlein, but I liked in Starship Troopers where Mr. Dubois handed Johnny Rico a piece a paper with first place written on it, and Johnny rejected it. When asked why, Johnny stated everyone knew he placed 4th, proving that he took a measure of satisfaction in what he had earned. I'll never understand how someone can be comfortable with being given something that others had to earn. Maybe these kids truly didn't know they weren't cutting the mustard to get in these institutions, but the majority people have to take the hit and find another option.

I definitely agree that makes this worse; the student debt load of the middle class is appalling (that's a whole other topic in and of itself), and these parents are throwing their money around to get their underqualified kids accepted and then getting tax breaks for the "charitable" contribution. No, the world's not fair, but, while all people are not truly created equal, we should be fostering a society with equal opportunity (or as close as possible). This kind of behavior ruins that.

As for the plaintiffs, if they have already been accepted and are successfully pursuing a degree at an accredited institution elsewhere, I fail to see the damage that could be assessed. The scandal doesn't mean they were a shoe-in and got shafted. Doesn't make it all right, but, like you said River, it's just too hard to make that call.

[RiverDog]

When asked why, Johnny stated everyone knew he placed 4th, proving that he took a measure of satisfaction in what he had earned. I'll never understand how someone can be comfortable with being given something that others had to earn. Maybe these kids truly didn't know they weren't cutting the mustard to get in these institutions, but the majority people have to take the hit and find another option.

It's not clear how many kids knew of their parents efforts on their behalf, but it's a good bet that many of them did. Even if they were completely unaware, they need to be expelled immediately for falsifying an application. The ironic thing is that their parents spent thousands of dollars to help their kids and ended up doing them some major harm.

...the student debt load of the middle class is appalling (that's a whole other topic in and of itself), and these parents are throwing their money around to get their underqualified kids accepted and then getting tax breaks for the "charitable" contribution. No, the world's not fair, but, while all people are not truly created equal, we should be fostering a society with equal opportunity (or as close as possible). This kind of behavior ruins that.

I have mixed emotions on the student debt issue, but like you said, that's a different subject. But what you mentioned about equal opportunity is spot-on, and not just for sentimental reasons: If I get operated on by a doctor, I want it to be done by the smartest and hardest working, not the one that gained access to his field by some other means.

As for the plaintiffs, if they have already been accepted and are successfully pursuing a degree at an accredited institution elsewhere, I fail to see the damage that could be assessed. The scandal doesn't mean they were a shoe-in and got shafted. Doesn't make it all right, but, like you said River, it's just too hard to make that call.

That's what makes this issue more about our philosophy or creed and less about tangible effects. They didn't deny anyone access to college, they denied access to certain specific colleges. Heck, some of those that may have been offered a slot at USC might have declined as many if not most use the shotgun approach and apply at a half dozen or more schools. It obviously doesn't make it right and by no means should any of the perpetrators get any sort of a break due to that fact, but it's important to point it out. Over the course of our history as a nation, there has been far, far worse transgressions, in education, housing, employment, as well as many other areas.

And what the heck is going on at USC? It wasn't that long ago that their athletic department was embroiled in a major scandal, now there in the middle of another. Is there something in the water on that campus?

[idhawkman]

Its almost like you are saying that since we can't determine what the kids knew or who actually got hurt that nothing should be done. You can't possibly be saying that though, right?

[makena]

https://youtu.be/pTwPHuE_HrU

[RiverDog]

Its almost like you are saying that since we can't determine what the kids knew or who actually got hurt that nothing should be done. You can't possibly be saying that though, right?

You must not have read the OP, or if you did, you must have forgotten what I said, so I'll copy and paste it again:

They need to come down on the perpetrators like a ton of bricks. They simply cannot let this perception of a "pay to play" system to exist in a day where the middle class is getting stuck with huge price tags for their kids to go to college as the average debt that students graduate with is over $32K. It fans the flames of class warfare, and further divides the country.

What I am saying is that the damages done are largely superficial, like white collar crime. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't come down on the perpetrators "like a ton of bricks". It's more like the crime Mychal Kendricks committed, which involved insider trading. How much money did Kendricks steal from any given individual?

Although there aren't any posters in here that have adapted the position, there's a ton of people on social media that are wringing their hands over this scandal as if it explains why those like Donald Trump can succeed while poor little ole victimized me sits on a street corner with a backpack and a cardboard sign. The scandal didn't cause, or shouldn't have caused, a single person not to get a good education at an institution that was aligned with their objectives. It's not a case of "well, I can't get into USC so I'll have to flip hamburgers for the rest of my life" as some would have us believe.

As I said in the OP, it fans the flames of class warfare much like the Smollett case has widened racial and political divides. IMO the admissions scandal, like the Smollett crimes, should net the maximum penalty due to the negative effect it has had on society.