Trump's Re-Election

[RiverDog]

I see Bidens problem in the primaries as opposed to the general election. This is a big deal.His actions with many women and girls are on film for all to see. He really has done some weird stuff. And I staunchly disagree that its OK for the man to get naked with a female secret service agent present just to go swimming.

I personally don't think swimming in the nude in private is a big deal so long as it wasn't some kind of indecency involved. It's not my thing, but there's lots of people that do so in their private pools. If all he did was take off a robe, jump in, then don the robe immediately after getting out, even if there's a female security agent present, its no big deal. Do you remember the female reporters being banned from the NFL locker rooms issue? That was 30 years ago. But if they can link the behavior with the other "weird Uncle Joe" label his opponents are trying to hang on him, then it might gain some traction.

And there a big part of the party that doesn't want an old white centrist guy as the nominee regardless of his peccadilloes or lack thereof.

That's true. But if they come to the conclusion that the only way they can beat Trump is to nominate a centrist like Biden, they might just compromise on their principles in order to get Trump out. I've heard of discussions within Democratic circles that Biden might only serve just the one term then allow the Dems to nominate one of their millennial candidates in 2024.

Sanders gets a pass from the hysterical leftist base because hes a socialist/communist true believer but beyond those general election fatal flaws hes a gnome like old man who combs whats left of his hair with a rock. Appearance does matter in the general and not that I'm a fan of Trumps appearance but he looks better and more presidential than Sanders. Biden looks the part and has the experience but I just see him fading fast with the radical base of the party.

Sanders reminds me of the mad scientist in "Back to the Future".

America has never needed a centrist third party as much as it does now.

A third party will never work under our Constitution. The best they can hope for is to play the role of a spoiler, like Ross Perot did in '92. Even if a 3rd party candidate were able to win the Electoral College vote, they likely wouldn't be able to get up to 50% and thus throw the election into the House of Representatives, which would then elect their own nominee. We're stuck with these two parties.

But I'm like you, I'd disenchanted with both parties.

[idhawkman]

Biden is done and he hasn't even announced yet. LOL! That party is too far gone (Left) and it aint comin' back.

[RiverDog]

Biden is done and he hasn't even announced yet. LOL! That party is too far gone (Left) and it aint comin' back.

Yea, it doesn't look good for Weird Uncle Joe, but we'll see. The subject in one of the pictures that's been circulating came forward and said that people were taking the photo way out of context, that she didn't feel at all threatened, that she didn't want to dignify the inaccurate descriptions with a response until she realized that it had gotten out of control. If Biden came out swinging like Kavanaugh did when the #Metoo movement threatened to ensnare him, he might have a chance. But I don't think he has the stomach for a fight.

And it's not just the Democratic party that has moved to the left. Much to my chagrin, the entire country is moving in that direction. Like it or not, surveys have shown that the next generation is likely to be very liberal. People like AOC are they types of pols that the millennials are going to be producing.

[burrrton]

Like it or not, surveys have shown that the next generation is likely to be very liberal.

They've always shown that. The upcoming gen may or may not be even more so than most, but younger people always have been and always will be much more liberal than older people.

And just as they always have, as they age, most will become more conservative over time.

How's the old saying go? "If you don't lean liberal when you're 20, you don't have a heart. If you don't lean conservative when you're 40, you don't have a brain."

[c_hawkbob]

Like it or not, surveys have shown that the next generation is likely to be very liberal.

They've always shown that. The upcoming gen may or may not be even more so than most, but younger people always have been and always will be much more liberal than older people.

How's the old saying go? "If you don't lean liberal when you're 20, you don't have a heart. If you don't lean conservative when you're 40, you don't have a brain."

Quite exactly the opposite of my experience.

[Aseahawkfan]

Dems need to bring a strong candidate who can stand up to Trump's attacks and unite their base as well as bring in the swing voters if they want to beat him.

I don't want four more years of Trump as he causes me to dislike this nation with all the hypocrisy and scumbaggery he inspires from all sides. He's a petty, narcissistic man that inspires constant attack that he uses to further inspire his sycophantic worshipers to do more petty trash behavior. Then again the Democrats cause me to tune out with their pathetic liberal politics looking to turn us into some cesspool nation of no standards, excessive and endless taxation, and their near constant attacks on business. It's like there is nowhere to go right now for a worthwhile America. It's like we're stuck between two extreme viewpoints and they plan to have their way regardless of what it does to the nation.

It doesn't help that I'm in Washington State. One of the most liberal, no standards, business attacking states in America governed by super liberal, child killer protector Jay Inslee. It's a rock and a hard place if you want to see your nation live up to the American ideals as it should.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I think it is a little bit of both. I was raised very conservative, and it took going to to college and grad school and getting out in the world to change some view points and rightly so. I also believe for youngsters going from college to having a real job with deadlines and performance criteria, bills, and maybe children that brings them to the right on some issues. No reason anyone has to be 100% liberal or 100% conservative. Lots of room in between.

Definitely agree with you, Asea. I tell people I'll laugh if Trump wins again, and I will, but not because I'll be stoked he won. It will just be another middle finger to the biased establishment that looked to prop up HRC at every opportunity while blasting Trump for returning a VHS rental tape late 20 years ago (okay, I know that didn't happen, but everything was fair game in regards to his past and present actions); I expect the same this go around. I'll also laugh because neither side was able to put up anything better than him. It is shameful that this is what we've come to when we should be capable of much better.

[RiverDog]

Like it or not, surveys have shown that the next generation is likely to be very liberal.

They've always shown that. The upcoming gen may or may not be even more so than most, but younger people always have been and always will be much more liberal than older people.

And just as they always have, as they age, most will become more conservative over time.

How's the old saying go? "If you don't lean liberal when you're 20, you don't have a heart. If you don't lean conservative when you're 40, you don't have a brain."

My personal experience was that your hypothesis applies to college aged kids, but once they graduate and leave their idealistic, put their make believe Utopia in their rear view mirrors, enter the real world, get a job, and start paying taxes, their perspective changes somewhat, so the phenomena tends to end at around age 25. The Millennials are now pushing age 40, so if they were going to go through the metamorphosis you are referring to, they'd done it by now.

The succeeding generation, Generation Z, starts with those born in the mid 90's. It will be the first generation that does not have a vivid recollection of 9/11. Makes you feel old, doesn't it?

[burrrton]

Quite exactly the opposite of my experience.

If you think people have more of a brain when they're more liberal, fair enough. If you think they *don't* get more conservative as they age, then, um... LOL.

[burrrton]

The Millennials are now pushing age 40, so if they were going to go through the metamorphosis you are referring to, they'd done it by now.

Millennials... are around 40?? That would be the far, FAR upper end of what anyone could argue that "generation" is.

"Millennials" are generally considered in their 20ss, with the upper end being mid 30s.

In other words, they'll be emerging from their naive progressive ideals over the next decade+.

[edit]

The birth years of 1981 to 1996 were used in 2019 to define millennials by PBS,[27] CBS,[28] ABC Australia,[29] The Washington Post,[30] and The Washington Times.[31] In 2018 they were used by The Los Angeles Times.[32]

As of 2019, the Pew Research Center defines millennials as born from 1981 to 1996, choosing these dates for "key political, economic and social factors", including the September 11th terrorist attacks, the Great Recession, and the internet explosion. Pew indicated they would use 1981 to 1996 for future publications but would remain open to date recalibration.[33] Many major media outlets have cited Pew's definition for the date range of millennials, including Time magazine,[34] The Washington Post,[35] and Reuters.[36]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennia ... efinitions

Makes you feel old, doesn't it?

Just about everything does now!

[Hawktawk]

America has been moving left as long as I've been alive which is 59 years. I generally agree that as people age they become more conservative but its still a relative term. The Trump derangement syndrome people which are actually Trump and his die hard supporters have definitely turned back the clock but they are in as minority, have been since election day and its shrinking even more. I know that as for myself Ill give Trump credit for one thing. He and his maniacal vulgar tribal followers have opened my eyes to the ugliness that is the hard core base of the party. This former Rush listening Fox watching straight ticket R voter since eligible to vote in 78 is forever gone from these POS. I've moved hard to the center /left.

I cant be the only one which might help explain the nearly 9 million more ballots cast for democrats last midterm despite having a message of only save our health care and we hate trump. A majority of the country does thankfully. I hope for a credible primary challenge in the Republican party or a more centrist Democrat candidate because i despise the left almost as much as the Trump party but the lunatic in the oval office is so bad and so crazy and so unpopular he could literally give this country Bernie Sanders based on recent polls. A Pennsylvania poll shows him in the low 40s and losing to about the top 4 challengers head to head now and he keeps talking loony S#1t daily so its only getting worse.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't consider myself right or left, conservative or liberal, or Democrat or Republican. I never have much aligned with these competing factions.

We know what works now. It's not even like it's much up for debate. What I don't get is why people are so confused on implementation. We have sufficient data after the thousands of years of recorded human history, science, and the like, yet we still can't do what is right for humanity. It shows the imperfection of humans as a whole.

We could literally do the following with fair ease:

1. Feed everyone well.

2. Provide a base level of medical care.

3. Organize a well-operating world government capable of providing rule of law, equal treatment, world peace, and everything we've been seeking.

But we're humans, so we have to argue over utterly stupid crap, make stuff up, make all this harder than it is, kill each other a bunch, and generally act like we're in some kind of war in made up, unnecessary conflicts. It's maddening to watch.

[burrrton]

1. Feed everyone well.

Our "poor" have a much, much bigger problem with obesity than hunger, and it's not close.

2. Provide a base level of medical care.

Nobody in this country is too poor to be given needed medical treatment.

3. Organize a well-operating world government capable of providing rule of law, equal treatment, world peace, and everything we've been seeking.

Did you really just say "world government"??

[RiverDog]

The Millennials are now pushing age 40, so if they were going to go through the metamorphosis you are referring to, they'd done it by now.

Millennials... are around 40?? That would be the far, FAR upper end of what anyone could argue that "generation" is.

"Millennials" are generally considered in their 20ss, with the upper end being mid 30s.

In other words, they'll be emerging from their naive progressive ideals over the next decade+.

[edit]

The birth years of 1981 to 1996 were used in 2019 to define millennials by PBS,[27] CBS,[28] ABC Australia,[29] The Washington Post,[30] and The Washington Times.[31] In 2018 they were used by The Los Angeles Times.[32]

As of 2019, the Pew Research Center defines millennials as born from 1981 to 1996, choosing these dates for "key political, economic and social factors", including the September 11th terrorist attacks, the Great Recession, and the internet explosion. Pew indicated they would use 1981 to 1996 for future publications but would remain open to date recalibration.[33] Many major media outlets have cited Pew's definition for the date range of millennials, including Time magazine,[34] The Washington Post,[35] and Reuters.[36]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennia ... efinitions

Born in '81 means the oldest will be celebrating their 38th birthday this year. That's late 30's, and pushing 40 IMO. Using your 1981-1996 date range, it puts the generation between 23-38 with a midpoint of 30.5 years old, so assuming an even population distribution, the majority are in their 30's, have graduated from college years ago (or are well into their careers) and have had to face the harsh realities of raising a family, making house payments, and living by a budget for some time now. If they were to experience a political metamorphosis, even a gradual one, chances are they'd have shed their cocoons more than a few years ago.

Your theory fits the succeeding generation, Gen Z, more than it does the Millennials.

[c_hawkbob]

Quite exactly the opposite of my experience.

If you think people have more of a brain when they're more liberal, fair enough. If you think they *don't* get more conservative as they age, then, um... LOL.

I didn't say i "think" anything, I was talking strictly about my personal experience; I was raised religious and republican, but as i grew up and began thinking for myself i became increasingly less of both. And not so much because of basic philosophy, but because I felt myself being pushed away from both the church and the Republican party by the things I experienced.

Besides, it is grossly simplistic to view everything as either left or right, there is much more territory between the two than their is out on either wing. I try to stay as close to the center as possible, leave the left and the right to you wingnuts.

[idhawkman]

Yea, it doesn't look good for Weird Uncle Joe, but we'll see. The subject in one of the pictures that's been circulating came forward and said that people were taking the photo way out of context, that she didn't feel at all threatened, that she didn't want to dignify the inaccurate descriptions with a response until she realized that it had gotten out of control. If Biden came out swinging like Kavanaugh did when the #Metoo movement threatened to ensnare him, he might have a chance. But I don't think he has the stomach for a fight.

And it's not just the Democratic party that has moved to the left. Much to my chagrin, the entire country is moving in that direction. Like it or not, surveys have shown that the next generation is likely to be very liberal. People like AOC are they types of pols that the millennials are going to be producing.

Very well said. I think it is easy to get elected offering free candy to the whole class but after you're elected and time has elapsed, people will forget about how good that candy was and all they'll have left is a bare cupboard since they spent their lunch money on candy. (rough analogy)

[idhawkman]

Dems need to bring a strong candidate who can stand up to Trump's attacks and unite their base as well as bring in the swing voters if they want to beat him.

I don't want four more years of Trump as he causes me to dislike this nation with all the hypocrisy and scumbaggery he inspires from all sides. He's a petty, narcissistic man that inspires constant attack that he uses to further inspire his sycophantic worshipers to do more petty trash behavior. Then again the Democrats cause me to tune out with their pathetic liberal politics looking to turn us into some cesspool nation of no standards, excessive and endless taxation, and their near constant attacks on business. It's like there is nowhere to go right now for a worthwhile America. It's like we're stuck between two extreme viewpoints and they plan to have their way regardless of what it does to the nation.

It doesn't help that I'm in Washington State. One of the most liberal, no standards, business attacking states in America governed by super liberal, child killer protector Jay Inslee. It's a rock and a hard place if you want to see your nation live up to the American ideals as it should.

I think the writing is on the wall for Biden, the party doesn't want him. I don't think it is a mistake that his own party is coming out against him in these charges. If that is the case and they run Biden out of town, the Charles Shultz will run and we all kind of know what that will result in.

[idhawkman]

My personal experience was that your hypothesis applies to college aged kids, but once they graduate and leave their idealistic, put their make believe Utopia in their rear view mirrors, enter the real world, get a job, and start paying taxes, their perspective changes somewhat, so the phenomena tends to end at around age 25. The Millennials are now pushing age 40, so if they were going to go through the metamorphosis you are referring to, they'd done it by now.

The succeeding generation, Generation Z, starts with those born in the mid 90's. It will be the first generation that does not have a vivid recollection of 9/11. Makes you feel old, doesn't it?

I agree most gen z won't remember, but both my daughters were born in the 90s and because we lived just 3 miles south of the Pentagon and they pulled a boy and his sister out of school that day to tell them that their daddy was in that part of the pentagon and couldn't be found, they will never forget it. But as I said, that was not the same experience by most of the kids born in the 90s.

[RiverDog]

My personal experience was that your hypothesis applies to college aged kids, but once they graduate and leave their idealistic, put their make believe Utopia in their rear view mirrors, enter the real world, get a job, and start paying taxes, their perspective changes somewhat, so the phenomena tends to end at around age 25. The Millennials are now pushing age 40, so if they were going to go through the metamorphosis you are referring to, they'd done it by now.

The succeeding generation, Generation Z, starts with those born in the mid 90's. It will be the first generation that does not have a vivid recollection of 9/11. Makes you feel old, doesn't it?

I agree most gen z won't remember, but both my daughters were born in the 90s and because we lived just 3 miles south of the Pentagon and they pulled a boy and his sister out of school that day to tell them that their daddy was in that part of the pentagon and couldn't be found, they will never forget it. But as I said, that was not the same experience by most of the kids born in the 90s.

Historians generally pick a defining point in history to make a separation between generations. My best friend was born in 1938, so he's a member of "the Greatest Generation" (a term coined by Tom Brokaw) even though he doesn't remember a thing about the Great Depression or WW2. My parents, born in 1925 and members of the same generation, had vivid recollections of both of the generation's defining events, especially WW2.

[RiverDog]

I think the writing is on the wall for Biden, the party doesn't want him. I don't think it is a mistake that his own party is coming out against him in these charges. If that is the case and they run Biden out of town, the Charles Shultz will run and we all kind of know what that will result in.

Charles Schultz? That would really be a trick since he's been dead for nearly 20 years. Are you sure that you don't mean Howard Schultz? Or did you mean Charles Schwab?

[burrrton]

leave the left and the right to you wingnuts.

The guy who thought border enforcement was like the Holocaust because Orange Man Bad thinks he's not among the wingnuts?

[burrrton]

Born in '81 means the oldest will be celebrating their 38th birthday this year.

Fine, but your point was that we should be seeing a 'movement' toward more conservative ideas in the group (if my theory is true), but when that group is only beginning to hit their late 30s at the upper end, and still includes grad students at the lower end, I don't think we should expect that we'd be close to seeing that movement among them yet (statistically).

[c_hawkbob]

leave the left and the right to you wingnuts.

The guy who thought border enforcement was like the Holocaust because Orange Man Bad thinks he's not among the wingnuts?

Never said that, again you're grossly exaggerating what was said to suit your own narrative.

[RiverDog]

Born in '81 means the oldest will be celebrating their 38th birthday this year.

Fine, but your point was that we should be seeing a 'movement' toward more conservative ideas in the group (if my theory is true), but when that group is only beginning to hit their late 30s at the upper end, and still includes grad students at the lower end, I don't think we should expect that we'd be close to seeing that movement among them yet (statistically).

My personal experience is that a person goes through a political migration starting when they leave college/enter the work force. It was that way for me when I was 23 and landed my first full time job out of college That clearly happens for the majority during their mid 20's at the latest.

My daughter is 32 years old. When I visited her and her husband a couple weeks ago, we started talking about money, and she surprised me with her mastery of the subject as she knew what a Roth option was, what tax bracket she was in, how much money they could save by paying their house off early, and so on. When she was in her mid 20's, I was still doing her taxes for her and she wouldn't pay attention to me when I tried to explain what compound interest was.

I consider my daughter to be a typical Millennial, and she clearly changed during that 5-7 year period, and that's taking into consideration that she entered the full time work force relatively late (after 8 years of college). IMO if you're 30 years old and/or spent 5-8 years in the workforce as the majority of Millennials have, your attitude towards politics ain't likely to change. Millennials are going to be a much more liberal generation than the post Watergate/Reaganite Gen X'ers that preceded them.

[RiverDog]

I try to stay as close to the center as possible, leave the left and the right to you wingnuts.

JMHO, but you represent yourself as being quite a bit left of center than your self appraisal, and I say that based on the opinions you've ventured on such things as taxation policy, big business/Wall Street, and various social issues. IMO you're about as left of center as I am right.

As far as my own self appraisal, I used to be quite a bit further right of center than I am today but have migrated back towards the center, thanks mainly to DJT. This past fall, I voted for my first ever Democrat for national office and if given a viable choice in 2020, might vote for a Dem for POTUS. I consider myself a fiscal conservative and social moderate, more hawkish on defense than the median but less so than I used to be.

I am mildly in the corner of gun rights advocates but do not extend it to assault weapons. I am pro choice, believe in a flexible immigration policy that takes into account our economic and infrastructure capabilities, I'm for enhanced border security but not Trump's vision of a wall (except where it makes sense), and I'm a free trader that doesn't get hung up on trade deficits (who gives a rip so long as our economy is strong and we have more job openings than we have unemployed.) Except that I didn't feel a tax cut was essential to the health of our economy, I'm generally in favor of lower taxes vs. more government.

I'm not sure how the rest of you would rate that, but I figure it to be around 60-70% on the political spectrum, with 0% representing liberal and 100% representing conservative.

[burrrton]

Never said that, again you're grossly exaggerating what was said to suit your own narrative.

Oh for Pete's sake- you said it, then even defended it. Stop with the gaslighting.

[c_hawkbob]

Fair enough, keeping in mind I'm only responding to topics being discussed. I'm also a gun owner and former NRA member and am strong on individual freedoms, but that's never the arguments I'm responding to.

As far as me being as far left as you are right, perhaps so, but while I certainly see myself as left of dead center I don't consider you as being 'out on the wing', as it were either. At least not nearly as far as some here.

[RiverDog]

Fair enough, keeping in mind I'm only responding to topics being discussed. I'm also a gun owner and former NRA member and am strong on individual freedoms, but that's never the arguments I'm responding to.

As far as me being as far left as you are right, perhaps so, but while I certainly see myself as left of dead center I don't consider you as being 'out on the wing', as it were either. At least not nearly as far as some here.

Yea, good point. And although it's not a rousing tribute to my uncanny wisdom and thoughtful insights into American politics, I'll accept your appraisal of my status as a compliment.

[c_hawkbob]

Oh it is.

[Aseahawkfan]

Our "poor" have a much, much bigger problem with obesity than hunger, and it's not close.

I do not think of just our poor. I think of humanity as a whole.

Nobody in this country is too poor to be given needed medical treatment.

Once again, the entire world.

Did you really just say "world government"??

Yes. The inevitable world government that is forming. It's happening as we watch, slowly, clunkily, with lots of resistance. Just as wandering humans formed tribes to city-states to empires to nations and everything in-between, it is inevitable absent a world war that humans come together to form a world government.

I've never been against this as I see it as happening. Rather I would prefer many of the American ideals become a part of that government.

[burrrton]

I do not think of just our poor. I think of humanity as a whole.

Oh! You've got an easy solution for world hunger? Do share!

And do world peace next. We've been working on this stuff for so long. Frustrating when the answers must be sitting there right in front of us and we just didn't think to ask the right people.

"Did you really just say "world government"??"

Yes.

Thought so. Jeezus.

I've never been against this as I see it as happening.

Let me know if you want me to save you the suspense.

[RiverDog]

Yes. The inevitable world government that is forming. It's happening as we watch, slowly, clunkily, with lots of resistance. Just as wandering humans formed tribes to city-states to empires to nations and everything in-between, it is inevitable absent a world war that humans come together to form a world government.

I've never been against this as I see it as happening. Rather I would prefer many of the American ideals become a part of that government.

That's funny. I see evidence of the exact opposite happening, such as Trump's trade war, Great Britain's exit from the European Union ("Brexit"), the ineffectiveness of the United Nations, etc.

[Aseahawkfan]

That's funny. I see evidence of the exact opposite happening, such as Trump's trade war, Great Britain's exit from the European Union ("Brexit"), the ineffectiveness of the United Nations, etc.

Since i don't think short-term as so many do, I see this as nothing but the last kick of the older generation as they head to the grave. I think both of us have heard this America First rhetoric before and it died out just like it will again. All the faces I see after Trump prominent in any way are either centrist Republicans or heavy liberals. Even Trump himself is pushing healthcare reform as high on the agenda or they will lose to the Dems. One of the areas not talked about is the liberal backlash Trump is inspiring that we may see in the coming elections.

But to answer your specific questions. Brexit hasn't happened yet and is being resisted heavily if you follow that story.

The Trade War with China hasn't had a dramatic effect. Both economies are still tightly wound. Heavy money is still flowing both ways. American business is not changing because of tariffs. Even at the current tariff rate, the cost of producing in China and other places is still far cheaper than America.

The United Nations is ineffective in doing what? As far as I know the IMF and International bank are still busy doing what they do. There are all types of things occurring you don't read about that occur daily with the United Nations. Americans tend not to follow international affairs very closely. How would you know how effective or ineffective the United Nations has been? They do still meet. World trade and government summits occur all the time and big ones every year. The world economy is still heavily intertwined.

I would say we already live in a global world, which is why American elections and a constant stream of news about the world is ever present. It has happened as a natural progression that will continue and seem relatively seamless.

In your lifetime, you watched this going on whether it be America building coalitions to institute sanctions, prosecute wars, and the entire world meeting at a security council before much gets done. So tell me again what your evidence is? Did they dissolve this security council? Do other nations not meet and talk before major events are done? Do the leaders of other nations not meet and talk often when it comes to how areas of the world are governed? I guess I'm missing how this isn't already a heavily globalized world and has been moving in that direction for a long, long time, since before we both were born.

In area you probably dont look too much, check the gaming community. They are as global as ever with players from all over the world competing in the same games using a digital medium. You can see the movement towards globalization across the digital frontier on a daily basis whether it the around the clock work at companies like Microsoft and Amazon to gaming to general communication and entertainment. The digital frontier is a further factor towards the inevitability of globalization so many fear.

[RiverDog]

Where has the United Nations been during the conflict with North Korea? Or China building artificial islands in international waters then claiming them as their own? How many resolutions did they pass against Sadaam Hussein and how many did he comply with? If the UN were effective, we wouldn't have had to go to war with Iraq twice in 12 years. They are nothing more than a debating society with no teeth.

The world is getting smaller, that's for sure. But nationalism still exists, and will for our lifetimes, and that's fine by me. Government works best when it's closest to the people it governs. For one, it's smaller, and individuals have more of an impact or say in the laws and services that they are paying for. Being governed by a world organization would be 10 times worse than ditto heads from inside the beltway telling us westerners what's best for us.

[burrrton]

Being governed by a world organization would be 10 times worse than ditto heads from inside the beltway telling us westerners what's best for us.

It would be many, MANY orders of magnitude worse. Like 'dystopian future' worse.

And yeah, it's not happening.

[Hawktawk]

WOW What happened to the re-election thread? Welcome to the shack.
Biden continues to flounder under the weight of the creepy Joe allegations and made a couple of tone deaf jokes at a public speaking event today. Everyone knew this would come up if he ran, amazing he hasnt got a better message to deal with it. Minus this he would be the odds on favorite in 2020 right now. 17 candidates minus him. If he doesn't get in this is the type of scenario that coupld deliver a Sanders as the general election candidate by picking off winner take all states where 70 % of the voters hate him much like Trump did in 2016

And how about the loony Prez? On the heels of his Mueller whitewash he immediately wades back into healthcare freaking out the senate Republicans and to the joy of democrats. He threatens to shut down the Mexican border freaking out Senate Republicans and anyone else with a brain that understands commerce.

A couple of days ago while pulling a 180 reversal on his wish for the report to be released he said people should look at the "oranges" of the report. Said it 5 times and got the correct "origins" right once. Maybe he was thinking of what he sees in the mirror

The same day he calmly said in an interview that his father was born in Germany when it is a fact he was born in New York. Yesterday he reversed his decision on closing the Mexican border saying he would put it off for a year while insisting he hadn't changed his mind and never does . He also yanked his own nominee for director of ICE who had been widely supported by many republicans in the congress and didn't even consult NSA director Kirsten Nielsen.

Its sad watching the republican enablers trying to explain why the president does this or that. Its political malpractice.

He acts like this because hes F#cking nuts and its getting worse. I've said it since he started way back in the primaries, there's something wrong between the ears. Hes the crazy grandpa that lives in the basement except hes the POTUS. Scary and there's another year and a half for his pea brain to shrivel before the next election.

[RiverDog]

Biden continues to flounder under the weight of the creepy Joe allegations and made a couple of tone deaf jokes at a public speaking event today. Everyone knew this would come up if he ran, amazing he hasnt got a better message to deal with it. Minus this he would be the odds on favorite in 2020 right now. 17 candidates minus him. If he doesn't get in this is the type of scenario that coupld deliver a Sanders as the general election candidate by picking off winner take all states where 70 % of the voters hate him much like Trump did in 2016

Yea, Biden really stepped in it yesterday. I thought he was making a decent attempt to address the issue, emphasizing that it was never his intent to make anyone feel uncomfortable, and when you boil it down, he's never done anything close to sexual harassment. The worst thing you can call his behavior is creepy. But then he comes out and makes a couple of SNL-type jokes about it. I really don't think it would be an issue in a general election, not when you match him up against Trump, who has a much more distasteful record when it comes to his treatment of women. Plus he is a Dem, and the women's movement has always been much quicker to excuse inappropriate behavior between the sexes when it comes to someone that holds similar political beliefs.

And how about the loony Prez? On the heels of his Mueller whitewash he immediately wades back into healthcare freaking out the senate Republicans and to the joy of democrats. He threatens to shut down the Mexican border freaking out Senate Republicans and anyone else with a brain that understands commerce....A couple of days ago while pulling a 180 reversal on his wish for the report to be released he said people should look at the "oranges" of the report...The same day he calmly said in an interview that his father was born in Germany when it is a fact he was born in New York. Yesterday he reversed his decision on closing the Mexican border saying he would put it off for a year while insisting he hadn't changed his mind and never does..He also yanked his own nominee for director of ICE who had been widely supported by many republicans in the congress and didn't even consult NSA director Kirsten Nielsen.

Just more evidence of what a poor manager Trump is, how he does things by the seat of his pants.

[Hawktawk]

And now mayor Pete is officially in and polling third in some polls.I find that surprising. Society has accepted gay marriage overall but i just think they are not ready for a gay couple in the white house yet and it would be a general election disadvantage with swing voters.

Biden's poll numbers haven't been hurt a bit by the creepy uncle Joe stuff. Not sure what hes waiting for, hes the clear front runner.

Sanders is sinking a bit, stung by his refusal to release his tax returns and his tone deaf comments about having become a millionaire because he wrote a best selling book. Harris hanging in, Beto not catching fire nationally yet. There is speculation that Buttigieg is stealing his thunder. Warren appears to be toast as is Klobuchar etc. A bunch of the bottom feeders should take a clue from the republicans in the 2016 cycle and pack their bags and get the hell out rather than split the early vote and allow a terrible general election candidate to pick off early states and become the nominee. Some of these candidates would lose to Trump and the Dem party better understand that winning as opposed to some radical ideologically pure candidate is all that matters this time.

Im still hoping for a credible primary challenge to Trump, not that i don't think Weld is man enough to stand up to him. Id really love to support the party I've always supported but will never support the Trump party. A few of the names listed above I could hold my nose and vote for against Trump but not all of them. There is nobody as unacceptable as Hillary running on the Dem side this time however. The incumbent sure as hell is.

[idhawkman]

I've seen lots of polls in here on how Trump can't win because he is consistently low in approval rating. I saw a poll the other day on tv that showed him now at 53%. What's even more interesting is that wall street (Goldman Sachs) is predicting he'll be reelected. Its like Ground hog day and the shadow was seen so 6 more years of Trump... Yay!!!

Also saw where last quarter that White unemployment improved .88%, hispanic unemployment improved 1.42% and black unemployment improved almost 2.5%. All the dems are saying that this economy has left those groups behind and they are not benefitting though. At some point, people see through the lies and recognize what is actually happening. Just like the "There's no caravans", er, eh, "well there's no crisis", er, eh, "Well it is a humanitarian crisis only", er, eh, "Well Trump caused the crisis" stance they've taken on the immigration issue. They'll be singing another tun on the economy in just a few months.

No inflation, no recession and strong growing economic numbers as far as the eye can see. Get ready for another 4 years.

[RiverDog]

And now mayor Pete is officially in and polling third in some polls.I find that surprising. Society has accepted gay marriage overall but i just think they are not ready for a gay couple in the white house yet and it would be a general election disadvantage with swing voters.

Agreed. We're still a couple election cycles away from an openly gay person winning a general election. He also is pretty inexperienced and has never ran in a state wide election so he hasn't had to appeal to a diverse electorate.

Biden's poll numbers haven't been hurt a bit by the creepy uncle Joe stuff. Not sure what hes waiting for, hes the clear front runner.

I'm not at all surprised that he's unaffected by the Creepy Joe stuff. He's a Dem, and the press and women's movements don't go after Dems with the same fervor as they do R's/conservatives. Besides, the behavior is pretty lame. Kissing a woman on the top of the head isn't something I'd do to anyone besides my wife or daughter and I can understand it making some females uncomfortable, but it's hardly harassment.

Biden had said that he wanted to be the last to declare, but I think he would have committed by now had the Creepy Joe stuff not surfaced. We're still 9 months away from the Iowa caucuses, so there's no hurry.

Sanders is sinking a bit, stung by his refusal to release his tax returns and his tone deaf comments about having become a millionaire because he wrote a best selling book. Harris hanging in, Beto not catching fire nationally yet. There is speculation that Buttigieg is stealing his thunder. Warren appears to be toast as is Klobuchar etc. A bunch of the bottom feeders should take a clue from the republicans in the 2016 cycle and pack their bags and get the hell out rather than split the early vote and allow a terrible general election candidate to pick off early states and become the nominee. Some of these candidates would lose to Trump and the Dem party better understand that winning as opposed to some radical ideologically pure candidate is all that matters this time.

Agreed about Sanders. He has an advantage this early as next to Biden, he's the only one that has ran before, so he has name recognition. He's hit his ceiling. Warren hasn't and won't be able to shake her "Pocahontas" tag. The rest of them are a bunch of monotone voices blending into one. As I said above, we're still a long ways away from Iowa, so it's not going to hurt them to have this many candidates. Most will have dropped out by then.

Im still hoping for a credible primary challenge to Trump, not that i don't think Weld is man enough to stand up to him. Id really love to support the party I've always supported but will never support the Trump party. A few of the names listed above I could hold my nose and vote for against Trump but not all of them. There is nobody as unacceptable as Hillary running on the Dem side this time however. The incumbent sure as hell is.

There's been some speculation that former House speaker Paul Ryan might run. He won't have a snowball's chance in hell, but hopefully he could do to Trump what Kennedy did to Carter.

Agreed that there isn't a Dem that's announced with the negatives HRC had, and unlike 2016, I'll be open minded about any of their candidacies. But if all they do is parrot what seems to be the Democratic message, ie Medicare for All, anti capitalism, class warfare, socialistic policies, etc, I'll be voting Libertarian again. I'm still hoping for Biden.