Mueller report cover up

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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:30 pm

RiverDog wrote:I agree with you, but that's not what we were being told in real time. I distinctly remember John Chancellor of NBC, on the eve of the Saturday Night Massacre, saying that we were in the midst of the gravest Constitutional crisis in our country's history. That type of rhetoric is eerily similar to what's being used to describe the current predicament we have in Trump's Ukrainian scandal.

Specifically what section of the Constitution is compromised due to anything in the Clinton years? Even though Clinton wasn't held accountable for his lying under oath, we still prosecute and imprison people for committing perjury, don't we? As much as I disliked Clinton, there was nothing that he did while he was in office that permanently affected our democratic form of government.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. We're engaging in a circular argument.


The only people that think this is a grave Constitutional Crisis are people that aren't particularly aware of our history. They want to exaggerate this whole thing into a much bigger thing than it is. This is small potatoes compared to say the Civil War, any of our wars really, or The Great Depression or McCarthyism.

Presidents been getting away with vile crap for a while. I have no idea why people even consider this that bad save that Trump is terrible at hiding this or just doesn't have the established people in government to cover it well. I'd bet money what Trump is accused of doing happens nearly every administration. Washington D.C. is a corrupt place. It doesn't at all operate according to the laws. They're very walk the grey line in government. Look at our State Government. they change the Constitution whenever the people do something they don't like such as voting for lower tabs.

Now that government officials garner votes with handouts in Washington State, hard to get them out of office as the people getting the handouts seem to vote en masse at the state level.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:33 pm

When the only constitutional remedy to illegal behavior by the potus is deployed and senators decide criminal activity which perjury to a special prosecutor definitely is is not reason to remove him yeah the constitution took a hit.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby RiverDog » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:45 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:The only people that think this is a grave Constitutional Crisis are people that aren't particularly aware of our history. They want to exaggerate this whole thing into a much bigger thing than it is. This is small potatoes compared to say the Civil War, any of our wars really, or The Great Depression or McCarthyism.


Agreed. And having been an eyewitness to it, I would argue that the mid to late 60's, with the anti war protests, race riots, and political assassinations were a much bigger threat to our country than anything that's happened since.

More so than Donald Trump, I'm concerned about the ideological split that he's exposed. Call me naïve, but I vastly underestimated the amount of angst that exists between the right and the left. It's almost as if we're living in two different countries as we see things from such vastly different, 180 degree opposite perspective.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:52 pm

Hawktawk wrote:When the only constitutional remedy to illegal behavior by the potus is deployed and senators decide criminal activity which perjury to a special prosecutor definitely is is not reason to remove him yeah the constitution took a hit.


Trump's a narcissistic, self-promoting, arrogant, and annoying jackass. As far as threats to the Constitution or world go, he's small potatoes in the history of the world. Though of course he thinks he's the greatest. Even you calling him the most corrupt president in history would probably privately make him happy because it means he's the greatest at something in someone's mind. That's what he loves. He loves being this larger than life figure everyone cares about. I hate seeing his over-sized ego fed as often as it is by so many people. Even the negative press he loves and eats it up. That's why I try to ignore his sorry ass.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby RiverDog » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:34 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:Trump's a narcissistic, self-promoting, arrogant, and annoying jackass. As far as threats to the Constitution or world go, he's small potatoes in the history of the world. Though of course he thinks he's the greatest. Even you calling him the most corrupt president in history would probably privately make him happy because it means he's the greatest at something in someone's mind. That's what he loves. He loves being this larger than life figure everyone cares about. I hate seeing his over-sized ego fed as often as it is by so many people. Even the negative press he loves and eats it up. That's why I try to ignore his sorry ass.


Yup. He's all of that and more. But I disagree that he "loves" negative press. He reacts to even the most innocent of slights and is extremely think skinned. He can't stand disagreement.

He's also not very smart. In some ways, Trump reminds me of my dad. Although I loved him dearly and considered him my best friend, my old man wasn't all that smart, at least not on an intellectual level. I would get into an argument with him, usually over something I did or wanted to do, and give him a well reasoned explanation as to why I felt I was right. Dad had good reasons for disagreeing with what I said or wanted but was unable to articulate his thoughts and put them into words and it would frustrate him. He would end the argument by roaring "as long as you live in my house, you'll do what I tell you to!" I've seen Trump react in that very same way to reporters that ask him questions he doesn't like. He can't come up with an intelligent response, so he gets frustrated and reacts by getting angry.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:34 pm

RiverDog wrote:Yup. He's all of that and more. But I disagree that he "loves" negative press. He reacts to even the most innocent of slights and is extremely think skinned. He can't stand disagreement.


Trump loves even negative press. Gives him tons of ammunition to stir of up his base and tweet. He tweets the most when he is being attacked. His base loves to come to his defense and start storytelling his excuses. Trump is of the mind no press is bad press if it keeps your going and gets you ratings. He don't care as long as he gets noticed.

He's also not very smart. In some ways, Trump reminds me of my dad. Although I loved him dearly and considered him my best friend, my old man wasn't all that smart, at least not on an intellectual level. I would get into an argument with him, usually over something I did or wanted to do, and give him a well reasoned explanation as to why I felt I was right. Dad had good reasons for disagreeing with what I said or wanted but was unable to articulate his thoughts and put them into words and it would frustrate him. He would end the argument by roaring "as long as you live in my house, you'll do what I tell you to!" I've seen Trump react in that very same way to reporters that ask him questions he doesn't like. He can't come up with an intelligent response, so he gets frustrated and reacts by getting angry.


I have no idea how book smart Trump is. I"m dubious he even cares about book smarts or reads much. He's people smart and can read and manipulate crowds with the best of them. He's smart at selling. Just has that rich my money can get me out of anything attitude.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby RiverDog » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:26 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:Trump loves even negative press. Gives him tons of ammunition to stir of up his base and tweet. He tweets the most when he is being attacked. His base loves to come to his defense and start storytelling his excuses. Trump is of the mind no press is bad press if it keeps your going and gets you ratings. He don't care as long as he gets noticed.


In the political sense that it fires up his base, I agree with you. But not on a personal level. More so than others, Trump is visibly agitated anytime he receives even the slightest of criticism, and his Twitter feed gets a workout.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I have no idea how book smart Trump is. I"m dubious he even cares about book smarts or reads much. He's people smart and can read and manipulate crowds with the best of them. He's smart at selling. Just has that rich my money can get me out of anything attitude.


IMO one of the things that leads to some of his many gaffes is that he doesn't read. Aides of his have said that he won't read his morning briefs about what's happening around the world, and it's obvious that he doesn't rehearse speeches or prepare for news conferences. He spends more time in a golf cart than he does behind his desk. There's been countless times that he's shown that he can't retain knowledge for more than a few minutes, his Alabama hurricane being one example, getting Toledo mixed up with Dayton after a shooting being another. He didn't know that one of his primary antagonists, AOC, is native born. Reagan used to make similar gaffes, saying "million" instead of "billion" being one that sticks out in my memory, but his weren't nearly as pronounced as Trump's are. Just listening to him speak gives me the impression that he doesn't have a very extensive vocabulary which has a direct relationship with a person's education and/or level of intelligence. As Hawktalk has pointed out, the grammatical errors in his texts are just horrible.

Part of this could be age related combined with his spoiled rich kid/laziness trait and never had to apply himself mentality has led to a premature aging of his brain. But I get the sense that he was never very smart in the first place. He has what on paper looks like a fairly impressive resume with a BA degree in Economics from Wharton College at the U of Pennsylvania, but his name has never appeared on any honor rolls or Dean's lists and he's never released his college transcripts. Knowing how self-aggrandizing he is, he'd release them in a heart beat if they were good or even slightly above average. I honestly wonder how smart the man is.

What he does have is a good business sense or savvy, what you call being a salesman. But that's not a trait that's very useful in his position unless you can back it up with at least a high school-level of intelligence.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby I-5 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:59 pm

Savvy? I'd agree he's savvy at manipulating people and situations, especially when involves shadiness...does that make him good at actual business? Not even slightly. If he was actually good in business, he wouldn't have such a long list of fraudulent and epic failures (Trump University, Trump Casino, New Jersey Generals and by his influence, the USFL are just 3 giant ones that come to mind) that aren't share by successful people like Bezos, Buffet, Branson, Gates.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:47 pm

I-5 wrote:Savvy? I'd agree he's savvy at manipulating people and situations, especially when involves shadiness...does that make him good at actual business? Not even slightly. If he was actually good in business, he wouldn't have such a long list of fraudulent and epic failures (Trump University, Trump Casino, New Jersey Generals and by his influence, the USFL are just 3 giant ones that come to mind) that aren't share by successful people like Bezos, Buffet, Branson, Gates.



Hes a 6 time bankruptcy acrobat who was radioactive to US lenders who was billions in debt until Deutsche Bank bailed him out. They are known for money laundering and their financial records regarding the trump organization are under subpoena like every other business record and tax document of this guy. Now these days his business deals happen largely in cash, a guy billions in debt a few years ago financing deals for hundreds of millions with cash. His golf resorts hemorrhage money which seems to just keep flowing into them. He's nothing as a businessman but as a money laundry recipient using the office of the presidency to pay back his debts Im betting he's pretty good.

He's a mentally ill manic freak. he's not savvy. Anyone catch his act out talking with the press with the helicopter revving their engine? with the tablet with huge inch tall block letters of his talking points obviously scribbled and misspelled by him with a black sharpie? And he kept on repeating the talking points over and over and over. Man that must have been a few big rails of adderall he snorted before that performance :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:21 pm

RiverDog wrote:What he does have is a good business sense or savvy, what you call being a salesman. But that's not a trait that's very useful in his position unless you can back it up with at least a high school-level of intelligence.


Apparently it is helpful as it got him elected. And he isn't done yet, we'll see if they take him down or he has enough protection from his base of support to survive this heavy Democratic attack with some subtle backing from the Never Trumper crowd.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:28 pm

I-5 wrote:Savvy? I'd agree he's savvy at manipulating people and situations, especially when involves shadiness...does that make him good at actual business? Not even slightly. If he was actually good in business, he wouldn't have such a long list of fraudulent and epic failures (Trump University, Trump Casino, New Jersey Generals and by his influence, the USFL are just 3 giant ones that come to mind) that aren't share by successful people like Bezos, Buffet, Branson, Gates.


Gee. He's not one of the richest men in the world. The savvy business people are the richest in the world. Suffice it to say I don't agree. He has built the Trump name from a New York slumlord brand into a world renowned luxury brand. Hate him all you want as he is unlikable, but he is a good businessman. And I've heard all the asinine arguments as to why he isn't due to failures, but every single businessman you listed has failures in their history. I've read on all of them. Trump is a good businessman that knows how to build a brand.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:31 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Hes a 6 time bankruptcy acrobat who was radioactive to US lenders who was billions in debt until Deutsche Bank bailed him out. They are known for money laundering and their financial records regarding the trump organization are under subpoena like every other business record and tax document of this guy. Now these days his business deals happen largely in cash, a guy billions in debt a few years ago financing deals for hundreds of millions with cash. His golf resorts hemorrhage money which seems to just keep flowing into them. He's nothing as a businessman but as a money laundry recipient using the office of the presidency to pay back his debts Im betting he's pretty good.

He's a mentally ill manic freak. he's not savvy. Anyone catch his act out talking with the press with the helicopter revving their engine? with the tablet with huge inch tall block letters of his talking points obviously scribbled and misspelled by him with a black sharpie? And he kept on repeating the talking points over and over and over. Man that must have been a few big rails of adderall he snorted before that performance :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


This unproven trash again. Where do you get this garbage from? The liberal media and their narrative of Trump laundering money. I should know by now. The man been doing business in this country since his teens and now he's the devil. You are so gullible.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:29 pm

I’m gullible ? 6 bankruptcies and golf resorts failing but a never ending supply of cash. Yes he’s likely laundered money and everything imaginable .If his finances were great we would see them just like everything else he’s hiding , if it was exculpatory we would see it.and we are seeing nothing beyond brave people walking into congress to tell the truth. He’s a crook as a businessman. John Bolton former NSA Director told a group the other evening that Trumps decisions about Turkey and the Kurds was based on business interests . It’s as good an advertisement as any against reaL estate shysters who won’t divest have the checkbook for the USA.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby I-5 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:30 pm

Good businessmen don't bankrupt casinos, sink entire sports leagues, stiff their creditors, fake their voice on the phone to get publicity....sorry ASF, he's a con artist. if you can't see that, no one can help you.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:55 pm

I-5 wrote:Good businessmen don't bankrupt casinos, sink entire sports leagues, stiff their creditors, fake their voice on the phone to get publicity....sorry ASF, he's a con artist. if you can't see that, no one can help you.


Yes they do. Casinos go bankrupt all the time. He had nothing to do with sinking a sports league. That was Vince McMahon.

You don't know crap about Trump but what you read to support your bias. Man been doing business for 50 plus years. Turned himself to a household name around the world. Rose up from real estate mogul to reality TV star to president of the United States. If he's a con man, he's the greatest con man the world has ever seen.

I don't like him as president. I don't think he's a very good man. I don't make stuff up about people because I hate them. I see them for what they are the good and bad. And the simple fact is Trump is a highly motivated, highly successful man who has had an incredible amount of success. As is usual with humans, they don't care about facts. They only care about their emotional biases. If you were some Democrat liberal, they would build him up as an incredible success story as he was before he decided to become president.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:58 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I’m gullible ? 6 bankruptcies and golf resorts failing but a never ending supply of cash. Yes he’s likely laundered money and everything imaginable .If his finances were great we would see them just like everything else he’s hiding , if it was exculpatory we would see it.and we are seeing nothing beyond brave people walking into congress to tell the truth. He’s a crook as a businessman. John Bolton former NSA Director told a group the other evening that Trumps decisions about Turkey and the Kurds was based on business interests . It’s as good an advertisement as any against reaL estate shysters who won’t divest have the checkbook for the USA.


Sure, he's been in business for 50 plus years on smoke and mirrors. Sure, you keep believing that because of course that's how it works. Give me a break. You don't stay in business as long as Trump and become a household name running for president by being a 50 year screw up.

Until I see you acknowledge all the past corruption of other administrations that literally can be said to have done things like funded Osama Bin Laden's rise and the rise of Saddam in Iraq, then you're not much worth following. Your information is weak and you don't care about the truth.

If Trump squirms his way out of this, he'll be practically bulletproof. And you're lose your fricking head over it.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby I-5 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:56 am

Yes they do. Casinos go bankrupt all the time. He had nothing to do with sinking a sports league. That was Vince McMahon. You don't know crap about Trump but what you read to support your bias. Man been doing business for 50 plus years. Turned himself to a household name around the world. Rose up from real estate mogul to reality TV star to president of the United States. If he's a con man, he's the greatest con man the world has ever seen.

I don't like him as president. I don't think he's a very good man. I don't make stuff up about people because I hate them. I see them for what they are the good and bad. And the simple fact is Trump is a highly motivated, highly successful man who has had an incredible amount of success. As is usual with humans, they don't care about facts. They only care about their emotional biases. If you were some Democrat liberal, they would build him up as an incredible success story as he was before he decided to become president.


I said GOOD businessmen. Anyone can bankrupt a business. An example of a good businessman would be Bloomberg by comparison. You're getting good confused with shady. There's lots of shady businessmen out there; some never get caught; some do. There is PLENTY of evidence to back up my shady comment.

Also, what do YOU know about Trump that we don't?
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby RiverDog » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:22 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:Apparently it is helpful as it got him elected. And he isn't done yet, we'll see if they take him down or he has enough protection from his base of support to survive this heavy Democratic attack with some subtle backing from the Never Trumper crowd.


Helpful in getting him elected, but not very helpful when it comes time for him to govern.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby RiverDog » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:36 pm

I-5 wrote:Savvy? I'd agree he's savvy at manipulating people and situations, especially when involves shadiness...does that make him good at actual business? Not even slightly. If he was actually good in business, he wouldn't have such a long list of fraudulent and epic failures (Trump University, Trump Casino, New Jersey Generals and by his influence, the USFL are just 3 giant ones that come to mind) that aren't share by successful people like Bezos, Buffet, Branson, Gates.


Business savvy is one ingredient in being successful. I think of savvy as having a good intuition or instincts. There's a business savvy even in failure in knowing when to cut your losses, or in Kenny Roger's words, "know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, and know when to run." Trump has had a knack for being in the right place at the right time.

IMO the difference between Bezos, Gates, et al, and their business success is one of intelligence and experience. I get the impression that those guys know their businesses much better than Trump knew any of his. They were in on the ground floor and grew them into the successful giants that they are. Trump inherited his business and much of his fortune and has relied on others to do the actual work of running a business. He's never attempted to learn anything on his own imitative and has relied on others to do the dirty work for him. That's just a guess based on what I've observed of Trump, ie his inattention to details, his laziness, his lack of a command of the facts. Obviously I don't know, but it would seem to be a logical explanation.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby I-5 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:01 pm

I agree with your assessment, Riv. Those other guys had actual savvy in their line of work. Trump's savvy is strictly knowing how to play people, which has worked for him...but not his actual business success. He was the one who pushed the USFL to play their games in the fall, hoping to force the NFL into a merger. Uh, no. Result, a whole bunch of owners and related businesses lost their fortune when the ship went down. That's the kind of intuition we're talking about. He's good at getting tax breaks from claiming business losses, I'll give him that.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a ... rump-usfl/
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby RiverDog » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:16 pm

I-5 wrote:I agree with your assessment, Riv. Those other guys had actual savvy in their line of work. Trump's savvy is strictly knowing how to play people, which has worked for him...but not his actual business success. He was the one who pushed the USFL to play their games in the fall, hoping to force the NFL into a merger. Uh, no. Result, a whole bunch of owners and related businesses lost their fortune when the ship went down. That's the kind of intuition we're talking about. He's good at getting tax breaks from claiming business losses, I'll give him that.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a ... rump-usfl/


Sure, Trump's had a lot of business failures and yes, he's taken a bunch of people to the cleaners with some of his bad business decisions. That part is undeniable. But he's not the wretched, abject failure as you're making him out to be. If he was, he wouldn't be in the Oval Office.
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Re: Mueller report cover up

Postby Hawktawk » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:13 am

Breaking over the last 24 hours the US intelligence Inspector general will issue a report on the Russian hoax investigation stating that it was properly handled by James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Bruce Orr etc. It will establish the Steele dossier much of which has been validated WAS NOT USED to launch or further the Russian investigation and that there was a sufficient basis to launch the investigation.. A low level FBI employee will be likely charged for altering an Email that was used to obtain a FISA warrant of goofball Russian tool Carter Page. It's worth noting it was an extension of a FISA warrant that was issued by the Obama Justice department, also notable Page was never charged with anything.'
Also of note Mueller had fired this agent long ago for biased text messages.

So maybe asea can shut up about the Steele dossier and phony investigation of his buddy Trump. I'm sure he will eat his crow :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/09/fbi-rus ... chdog.html
So its official. No bias, justified investigation. In other news Walrus Barrs hand picked special investigator John Durham has reportedly already told the Walrus he cannot support a conclusion of conspiracy against the president although it is also reported that Barr will issue a report critical of the IGs findings. Man I thought Holder was a corrupt lap dog :lol: :lol:
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