Biden Wins Big in SC

[RiverDog]

I figured that he'd win, but not by the margin that's being reported this morning. Early reports indicate that Biden is winning nearly 50% of the vote, a remarkable achievement given the number of candidates running. Sanders is finishing a distant 2nd, with around 25% of the vote. Additionally, Biden's support runs across all demographic and ideological groups, including those that describe themselves as liberals. By any measure, this is a huge win for Creepy Joe.

Biden had a horrible month in February, with damage coming from many corners, including the impeachment trial which exposed the shady doings of his son in the Ukraine scandal, Sanders success in the early primaries, and Bloomberg's campaign blitz in which he's already spent close to half a billion dollars.

So is this victory enough to breathe life back into Biden's campaign? Is it too late to stop Sanders? The current delegate count has Sanders leading 56-48 but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the nearly 2000 it takes to win on the first ballot. And Michael Bloomberg has yet to appear on any primary ballots.

We won't have long to wait. Super Tuesday, with 15 states/territories, including the two most populous in CA and TX, is two days away, and there's nearly 1500 delegates up for grabs. Since 1984, no Democrat has won the nomination without winning the day on Super Tuesday.

The most recent Super Tuesday polling shows Sanders with a large lead in most of the primaries, particularly the two big ones, CA and TX. But those were obviously taken before the SC primary, and a number of voters could be motivated by the momentum Biden's win brings with it. In recent weeks, there's been a palatable scare that Sanders has given many Dems, and that could cause supporters of candidates like Michael Bloomberg and Mayor Pete to jump ship and vote for Biden. Additionally, as we've learned before, state wide polling is more difficult than nation wide polls.

As our friend Idahawkman is fond of saying...Get out your popcorn!

[Hawktawk]

I figured that he'd win, but not by the margin that's being reported this morning. Early reports indicate that Biden is winning nearly 50% of the vote, a remarkable achievement given the number of candidates running. Sanders is finishing a distant 2nd, with around 25% of the vote. Additionally, Biden's support runs across all demographic and ideological groups, including those that describe themselves as liberals. By any measure, this is a huge win for Creepy Joe.

Biden had a horrible month in February, with damage coming from many corners, including the impeachment trial which exposed the shady doings of his son in the Ukraine scandal, Sanders success in the early primaries, and Bloomberg's campaign blitz in which he's already spent close to half a billion dollars.

So is this victory enough to breathe life back into Biden's campaign? Is it too late to stop Sanders? The current delegate count has Sanders leading 56-48 but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the nearly 2000 it takes to win on the first ballot. And Michael Bloomberg has yet to appear on any primary ballots.

We won't have long to wait. Super Tuesday, with 15 states/territories, including the two most populous in CA and TX, is two days away, and there's nearly 1500 delegates up for grabs. Since 1984, no Democrat has won the nomination without winning the day on Super Tuesday.

The most recent Super Tuesday polling shows Sanders with a large lead in most of the primaries, particularly the two big ones, CA and TX. But those were obviously taken before the SC primary, and a number of voters could be motivated by the momentum Biden's win brings with it. In recent weeks, there's been a palatable scare that Sanders has given many Dems, and that could cause supporters of candidates like Michael Bloomberg and Mayor Pete to jump ship and vote for Biden. Additionally, as we've learned before, state wide polling is more difficult than nation wide polls.



As our friend Idahawkman is fond of saying...Get out your popcorn!

Its a big win for Biden and hes making the rounds today touting his comeback. But as you've said the reality is Sanders has huge super tuesday leads. If Warren drops out hes almost certain to gain most of her 10% support.

Still in a Texas poll the combo of warren/Sanders gets 44% of the vote while Biden, Bloomberg and increasing longshots Klobuchar and mayor pete split 56%. If every moderate but Biden would suspend and endorse he would easily win this nomination but they are too full of themselves to take one for the party. Biden would likely easily beat trump in the rust belt states as Trumps horrible public performances regarding this pandemic including appearing exhausted and possibly drugged, slurring his words and speaking very slowly just yesterday and veering off the topic to discuss the Taliban deal on numerous occasions. He stated the first US death was a "wonderful woman" when in fact it was a a man. His statements and performances on the coronavirus have forced even rasmussen to admit hes tanked 5 points in the last week. Bloomberg would also beat him, maybe more so due to his unlimited supply of money and extremely talented ad producers as well as organization.He also was the first candidate to bring the coronavirus in the debate They are planning 3000 events at 2500 locations before super tuesday!!!!!.

One question I have now is if he loses will Bloomberg still dump his money into say a Sanders general election campaign after the brutal attacks on his character in the debates? there's a saying "dont bite the hand that feeds you". Well the party did 2 years after he spent 200 million of his own money to boost dems in the midterm house races.I think Bloomberg has made the calculation Joe can't make it all the way and he's hoping for a brokered convention where if he's not the nominee at least it isn't Bernie .

We will know a lot by Tuesday night.

[RiverDog]

Its a big win for Biden and hes making the rounds today touting his comeback. But as you've said the reality is Sanders has huge super tuesday leads. If Warren drops out hes almost certain to gain most of her 10% support.

Still in a Texas poll the combo of warren/Sanders gets 44% of the vote while Biden, Bloomberg and increasing longshots Klobuchar and mayor pete split 56%. If every moderate but Biden would suspend and endorse he would easily win this nomination but they are too full of themselves to take one for the party. Biden would likely easily beat trump in the rust belt states as Trumps horrible public performances regarding this pandemic including appearing exhausted and possibly drugged, slurring his words and speaking very slowly just yesterday and veering off the topic to discuss the Taliban deal on numerous occasions. He stated the first US death was a "wonderful woman" when in fact it was a a man. His statements and performances on the coronavirus have forced even rasmussen to admit hes tanked 5 points in the last week. Bloomberg would also beat him, maybe more so due to his unlimited supply of money and extremely talented ad producers as well as organization.He also was the first candidate to bring the coronavirus in the debate They are planning 3000 events at 2500 locations before super tuesday!!!!!.

One question I have now is if he loses will Bloomberg still dump his money into say a Sanders general election campaign after the brutal attacks on his character in the debates? there's a saying "dont bite the hand that feeds you". Well the party did 2 years after he spent 200 million of his own money to boost dems in the midterm house races.I think Bloomberg has made the calculation Joe can't make it all the way and he's hoping for a brokered convention where if he's not the nominee at least it isn't Bernie .

We will know a lot by Tuesday night.

Nice take! I've seen the polls, too, and yes, Sanders is shown to have a big lead which can't be ignored. But fortunately for Biden, most of the news outlets reported him the big winner in SC almost immediately, so he's going to have a full 2 days to use it to get some of those that supported him two months ago back into his column, mainly Bloomberg and Buttigieg supporters. As you said, Bloomberg was slammed hard in the debates, also after many of those polls were taken, so that, too, could work in Biden's favor.

As far as Bloomberg's promise to dump lots of dough into the campaign, I doubt that he reneges on it. He has a disdain for Donald Trump that exceeds even the one that you have. He's an experienced politician that's been in tough campaigns before, so I doubt that he'll get butt hurt.

If Biden can at least hold the fort on Tuesday and not come out with a 200+ deficit to Sanders on delegates, he still has a good shot of at least keeping Sanders from winning on the first ballot. There's going to be a number of candidates that will drop out after Super Tuesday. Steyer has already announced he's quitting. Biden's probably not going to win in CA, but he could close the gap in TX and win in SC's neighboring states of NC and VA.

After the March 10th primaries, we should be down to 3 or 4 candidates. It was a frigging joke to have so many in the running. All they're doing is cannibalizing each other.

[RiverDog]

Looks like Buttigieg is dropping out:

Pete Buttigieg, who rose from being a small-town Midwestern mayor to a barrier-breaking, top-tier candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, is ending his campaign.

Three people with knowledge of Buttigieg’s decision told The Associated Press he began informing campaign staff on Sunday. They were not authorized to speak publicly and requested anonymity.

His campaign said Buttigieg will speak Sunday night in South Bend, Indiana.

https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/ ... dPgSJdj0KY

And in the meantime, Elizabeth Warren, despite her poor showings in every primary so far and is trailing Sanders even in her home state of Massachusetts, is sounding defiant:

In a head-turning memo Sunday, Sen. Elizabeth Warren's campaign declared that "the reality of this race" is that "no candidate will likely have a path to the majority of delegates" at the July Democratic National Convention in Milwaukee, Wis. -- setting out in stark terms the possibility of a bruising convention that party leaders have long feared, and outlining Warren's strategy for winning the presidential nomination there in a dramatic "final play."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/election ... spartanntp

Buttigieg's dropping out should help Biden while Warren's determination to stick it out will hurt Bernie.

[c_hawkbob]

Steyer dropped out too. I fully expect Warren will sometime later this week.

[RiverDog]

Steyer dropped out too.

Good catch. I saw that, too.

I fully expect Warren will (dropout) sometime later this week.

Did you read the article I linked about Warren? It sure doesn't sound like she's dropping out.

[Hawktawk]

Warren isn't dropping out. It's the same nagging runaway feminist attitude that's guaranteed she won't be the nominee in the first place. But she has money, plenty of it and with the withdrawal of Mayor Pete and Steyer she's likely to finish 2nd or 3rd in a few states on super Tuesday. Not a winning formula but enough to hang around and get on her soap box a few more times. Her supposed pipe dream is having other candidates back out and endorse her at some point. She clearly hurts Sanders but she's a woman scorned, likely to lose even her home state and she's still going to keep scratching those fingernails on the chalkboard till we've had enough. As I've said, Id rather see 2 grumpy old men on stage, one defending being a psychotic corrupt remorseless liar, ther other a contra loving anti american crusader turned democratic socialist than listen to one extra minute of anything out of Warrens mouth.

As for Pete Buttagieg can I get a witness? The guy is a class act.He ran a damn disciplined campaign. Hes smart as hell and IMO was the sharpest debater, able to draw blood without being obnoxious. Ask Warren how its worked out getting in peoples face and being nasty. He won Iowa, razor thin loss in NH. He was in 3rd place in delegates, flush with money but he took one for the team rather than extend his crusade that represented so many different things at the expense of Joe Biden and at the assistance of bernie Sanders. He and Biden have apparently reached out to consider coordination of resources. I think this was a brilliant move by mayor Pete. Hes preserved and enhanced his political viability going forward no matter what happens in november. Klobuchar should immediately do the same.Its Warrens last ride so it doesn't matter other than her legacy. If Im Bloomberg and I've dumped near a billion$ into super tuesday I'm going to be sticking around to see what happens but if he pulls a Steyer and doesn't get any delegates wouldnt he be best served to get out as well? I think we will know a lot Wed morning.

[RiverDog]

Warren isn't dropping out. It's the same nagging runaway feminist attitude that's guaranteed she won't be the nominee in the first place. But she has money, plenty of it and with the withdrawal of Mayor Pete and Steyer she's likely to finish 2nd or 3rd in a few states on super Tuesday. Not a winning formula but enough to hang around and get on her soap box a few more times. Her supposed pipe dream is having other candidates back out and endorse her at some point. She clearly hurts Sanders but she's a woman scorned, likely to lose even her home state and she's still going to keep scratching those fingernails on the chalkboard till we've had enough. As I've said, Id rather see 2 grumpy old men on stage, one defending being a psychotic corrupt remorseless liar, ther other a contra loving anti american crusader turned democratic socialist than listen to one extra minute of anything out of Warrens mouth.

As for Pete Buttagieg can I get a witness? The guy is a class act.He ran a damn disciplined campaign. Hes smart as hell and IMO was the sharpest debater, able to draw blood without being obnoxious. Ask Warren how its worked out getting in peoples face and being nasty. He won Iowa, razor thin loss in NH. He was in 3rd place in delegates, flush with money but he took one for the team rather than extend his crusade that represented so many different things at the expense of Joe Biden and at the assistance of bernie Sanders. He and Biden have apparently reached out to consider coordination of resources. I think this was a brilliant move by mayor Pete. Hes preserved and enhanced his political viability going forward no matter what happens in november. Klobuchar should immediately do the same.Its Warrens last ride so it doesn't matter other than her legacy. If Im Bloomberg and I've dumped near a billion$ into super tuesday I'm going to be sticking around to see what happens but if he pulls a Steyer and doesn't get any delegates wouldnt he be best served to get out as well? I think we will know a lot Wed morning.

Not much I can disagree with in that take, but I wonder who Warren thinks would drop out and endorse her. Bloomberg? Not a chance. Klobuchar? Maybe, but her views line up closer with Biden and Bloomberg's than Warren's. Additionally, she's making a lot of enemies within the party by dragging this thing out. Her strategy just doesn't make sense.

I like Mayor Pete, too, but he needs a little longer resume than simply a former mayor of a mid sized city. But unlike most of the other candidates, at 38 he's a lot younger and represents a new generation. Even Klobuchar, who looks young, is 59. Perhaps in the next cycle.

How Bloomberg plays his hand will be interesting. I can't see him being the choice in a brokered convention, not after that beat down he took in the last debate. Does he drop out and endorse Biden before he saps so many votes from him that he can't beat Sanders on the first ballot or does he fight to the bitter end, denying a majority to either Biden or Sanders.

This is the most interesting primary race in my memory. The 1960 Democratic race for the nomination was the last time it was as undecided as this one has the potential of being, but I was 5 years old and only know about it through documentaries and history books. The Democratic race in '68 would have been interesting, but we all know what happened in that one.

[RiverDog]

Now supposedly Klobuchar is dropping out and is going to endorse Biden:

Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, who entered the Democratic presidential race with an appeal to moderate voters and offered herself as a candidate who could win in Midwestern swing states, has decided to quit the race and endorse a rival, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden, Jr., according to a person close to Ms. Klobuchar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/us/p ... s-out.html

And Buttigieg is thinking of endorsing Biden as well:

An endorsement for Biden is likely, two people close to Buttigieg say, but whether he makes the decision before Super Tuesday is unclear.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/election ... spartanntp

Things are looking better and better for Creepy Joe. I wonder how long before the anti Sanders conspiracies get started?

[Hawktawk]

Maybe we can let go of the "creepy Joe" stuff now? There's no access hollywood tapes, just an emotional touchy feely man who got a little too close for some girls and women while the camera was rolling . I had heard a report he liked swimming nude in his pool at his VP residence with female SS present which I found the most troubling thing.Again though, no allegations of sexual misconduct I'm aware of.He apologized for his overly friendly actions and there have been no viral hair sniffing or excessive hugging moments since.

But Trump is credibly accused of 27 separate sex crimes, is being sued by 2 women for defamation, the most recent one who claims a rape in a NY dressing room in the 90s and says SHE HAS A DRESS with DNA on it. Her attorney has asked to have some DNA from Trump .
Then you look at Bloomberg's apparently gutter misogynistic profane way of speaking to women.

Bidens a lot less creepy than that at this point isn't he?.

[Hawktawk]

As for anti Sanders he's got the support of around 30% of voters. He needs to be taken down. His poll #s in a general election are fools gold. I'm afraid he might sink the entire party and leave a lawless president with absolutely no checks and balances. I could be wrong but he does not appeal to blacks very much.Biden outperformed Hillary Clinton in SC . His policies are the perfect foil for Trump hurling 5th grade insults across the debate stage. And if he wins it's a lose lose. An overwhelming majority of americans oppose his policies. I still would accept it over what's going on right now.

[RiverDog]

Maybe we can let go of the "creepy Joe" stuff now? There's no access hollywood tapes, just an emotional touchy feely man who got a little too close for some girls and women while the camera was rolling . I had heard a report he liked swimming nude in his pool at his VP residence with female SS present which I found the most troubling thing.Again though, no allegations of sexual misconduct I'm aware of.He apologized for his overly friendly actions and there have been no viral hair sniffing or excessive hugging moments since.

But Trump is credibly accused of 27 separate sex crimes, is being sued by 2 women for defamation, the most recent one who claims a rape in a NY dressing room in the 90s and says SHE HAS A DRESS with DNA on it. Her attorney has asked to have some DNA from Trump .
Then you look at Bloomberg's apparently gutter misogynistic profane way of speaking to women.

Bidens a lot less creepy than that at this point isn't he?.

You mean to say that the guy that lets loose every superlative imaginable about Donald Trump and then some is offended by the use of a rather benign nickname like creepy? Say it ain't so!

Despite the overly sensitive times in the #MeToo era, Biden's habits around women that he does not know personally have never been seen as appropriate. I doubt it will be an issue in a one-on-one matchup with DJT as it's one of those pot calling the kettle black things, but he's lucky that he gets somewhat of a free pass because he's on the Democratic side of the ledger or the women's groups would be going ballistic. I'll stick with the Creepy Joe moniker when I feel like it.

One of the things being discussed about the timing of the withdrawals of Buttigieg and Klobuchar is that Biden was in danger of not reaching the 15% threshold in several states and could get completely shut out of any delegates. With two moderates dropping out, he should be able to get over that 15% hump and limit the damage tomorrow. Had those two not tossed in the towel and endorsed Biden, Sanders might have built up an insurmountable lead. I'm sure that there's been some discussions from DNC brass regarding the timing of these withdrawals/endorsements.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's starting to consolidate. Let's see if the voters for the other candidates turn to Biden and his revived campaign.

[RiverDog]

Boy, what a difference a week makes! Super Tuesday is over, and Joe Biden has capped off an amazing turnaround since his loss in Nevada 11 days ago and his campaign teetering on collapse.

Although the polls are all closed and at least one primary, Maine, is still too close to call, it appears as if Biden has racked up victories in NC, VA, MA, MN, OK, AL, TN, TX, and AR. Sanders has scored apparent victories out west in CA, UT, CO, and in his home state of VT.

Michael Bloomberg faired poorly and reports are that he's "reassessing" his campaign, but the biggest embarrassment of the evening was in MA, where Elizabeth Warren not only lost in her home state, she finished a distant 3rd.

Although the final delegate count won't be available for some time, it currently stands at Biden 269, Sanders 239, Bloomberg 36, Warren 12, and Gabbard 1. That could look quite a bit different after they get done assessing the vote in CA as Sanders currently holds a double digit lead. CA has a whopping 415 delegates at stake.

[idhawkman]

I'm wondering when the Bernie Bros will start going postal on the Biden camp... Its coming you know...

[c_hawkbob]

I fully expect Warren will (dropout) sometime later this week.

Did you read the article I linked about Warren? It sure doesn't sound like she's dropping out.

Today, she did.

[RiverDog]

I fully expect Warren will (dropout) sometime later this week.

Did you read the article I linked about Warren? It sure doesn't sound like she's dropping out.

Today, she did.

I saw last night that she was "assessing their campaign options", code for we're about to throw in the towel.

It's good news as it might have damaged their chances of beating Trump in November if they had a real mess of a convention if no one received a majority. That's less likely now that it's a two man race.

BTW good call!

[c_hawkbob]

It was just becoming more and more obvious that it was a two man (person if she'd been one of them) race ...

I see she stopped short of endorsing Bernie, which surprises me a bit, but he constituency was more about the sex of the candidate than the platform I think, they'll probably split fairly evenly among the remaining two.

[RiverDog]

It was just becoming more and more obvious that it was a two man (person if she'd been one of them) race ...

I see she stopped short of endorsing Bernie, which surprises me a bit, but he constituency was more about the sex of the candidate than the platform I think, they'll probably split fairly evenly among the remaining two.

If Sanders gets the nomination, it will be interesting to see if Warren's offered the Veep. They've had their little infighting but Sanders is going to have to follow some sort of party mandates if he wants to unite them, and there's a huge yearning for a female to be on this year's ticket. The problem is with that logic is that a Sanders-Warren ticket doesn't add any regionality to it and they're not really building for the future by running a 70-year old next to the 78 year old Sanders.

The VP situation is a little better for Biden. The logical choice for him would be Klobuchar as she's ideologically similar, she'll help him in the Great Lakes states like Wisconsin, and she's 11 years younger than Warren, meaning that she's more viable for a possible run in 2024 or 2028.

[c_hawkbob]

Today he said:

“It’s too early to talk about that,” he said. “But certainly I have a lot of respect for Senator Warren and would love to sit down and talk to her about what kind of role she can play in our administration.”

Don't know if that would extend to a VP offer or not.

[Aseahawkfan]

Should be interesting to see where Warren's followers go. She tried to torpedo Bernie with the "female shouldn't be president" comment. Do her followers stay away from sexist Bernie for Biden? Who can say.

[RiverDog]

Should be interesting to see where Warren's followers go. She tried to torpedo Bernie with the "female shouldn't be president" comment. Do her followers stay away from sexist Bernie for Biden? Who can say.

Not only that, but she called Sanders a liar on a stage in front of an open microphone while Sanders politely tried to tell her that it wasn't the time or the place for that kind of discussion. She later tried to play stupid by saying that she didn't know the microphone was live, but WTF, she was on stage in front of a group, in today's day and age, what are the chances that her voice will be recorded?

The one thing to keep in mind is that Sanders is not a Democrat so he may have problems attracting Warren's followers into his camp.

The biggest problem with Biden is his obvious decline in mental acuity. His short term memory is fading fast, he gets confused easily, and when you combine his aging with a lifelong tendency to commit some huge, Trumpian-type gaffes, he's a ticking time bomb anytime he's away from the teleprompter. The other day, he said "Folks, now we need to stand behind Jaime Harrison, the next president of the United— next senator.. That one wasn't too bad, but the following one is truly a huge dementia symptom and isn't so much laughable as much as it is sad:

“You’re the ones who sent Barack Obama the presidency. And I have a simple proposition here: I’m here to ask you for your help. Where I come from, you don’t go very far unless you ask. My name’s Joe Biden. I’m a Democratic candidate for the United States Senate,” he said.

Biden continued, “Look me over. If you like what you see, help out. If not, vote for the other Biden. Give me a look though, okay?”

[Aseahawkfan]

Not only that, but she called Sanders a liar on a stage in front of an open microphone while Sanders politely tried to tell her that it wasn't the time or the place for that kind of discussion. She later tried to play stupid by saying that she didn't know the microphone was live, but WTF, she was on stage in front of a group, in today's day and age, what are the chances that her voice will be recorded?

The one thing to keep in mind is that Sanders is not a Democrat so he may have problems attracting Warren's followers into his camp.

The biggest problem with Biden is his obvious decline in mental acuity. His short term memory is fading fast, he gets confused easily, and when you combine his aging with a lifelong tendency to commit some huge, Trumpian-type gaffes, he's a ticking time bomb anytime he's away from the teleprompter. The other day, he said "Folks, now we need to stand behind Jaime Harrison, the next president of the United— next senator.. That one wasn't too bad, but the following one is truly a huge dementia symptom and isn't so much laughable as much as it is sad:

“You’re the ones who sent Barack Obama the presidency. And I have a simple proposition here: I’m here to ask you for your help. Where I come from, you don’t go very far unless you ask. My name’s Joe Biden. I’m a Democratic candidate for the United States Senate,” he said.

Biden continued, “Look me over. If you like what you see, help out. If not, vote for the other Biden. Give me a look though, okay?”

Wow. If that happens too often, Trump will destroy him. We'll be hearing Sleepy Joe over and over again. He better pick a strong VP.

[RiverDog]

Wow. If that happens too often (memory lapses, confusion), Trump will destroy him. We'll be hearing Sleepy Joe over and over again. He better pick a strong VP.

Except that Trump isn't any better and is arguably worse. Remember this is the man that had the Revolutionary Army attacking airports, had Andrew Jackson alive and well during the Civil War, said he was building his border wall between Colorado and Mexico, thought Paris was in Germany, and so on. Plus Trump, with his overuse of Twitter, is essentially using a microphone on stage without anyone there to correct him during every hour that he's awake. And the worst thing about Trump is that unlike Biden, he's so full of himself that he can never admit when he's made a mistake.

Here's a thought: We all remember how old Ronald Reagan was and how he was wracked with confusion during much of his administration. If Joe Biden is elected POTUS, at 78 he'll the same age on his inauguration day that Reagan was on the day he left office. People talk about term limits, but what we should be talking about is assigning a maximum age (there's already a minimum age of 35) qualification for POTUS.

Watching the Trump-Biden debates is going to be like watching Walter Mathieu and Jack Lemmon go at each other in "Grumpy Old Men".

[c_hawkbob]

Love the Grumpy old men analogy, but like it better with Bernie. Either way though, the late night guys are gonna have some great material!

[RiverDog]

Love the Grumpy old men analogy, but like it better with Bernie. Either way though, the late night guys are gonna have some great material!

Bernie doesn't seem to have the same problems with memory loss and confusion that afflict Biden and Trump, but he does have that hunched over look and along with the frizzy hair and crooked forefinger shake, looks more an old man, so you're probably right about his potential for SNL material.

Having been around a growing number of family and friends that have been afflicted with Dementia, I've become quite familiar with the symptoms and when they're likely to start showing them. My mother, for example, didn't start showing a decline until she was into her 80's, and that was only after undergoing heart surgery. My best friend, who will turn 82 next month, has only in the past year started showing signs of a mental decline. In both cases, they kept their minds active, my mother doing countless crossword puzzles and word jumbles, my friend by reading lots of books/magazines and doing Sudoku puzzles.

With DJT, he's only 73 years old and has been showing signs for at least the past 3+ years. He seems to be a little on the young side to be showing the type of mental decline that we've all witnessed, and I can only conclude that he hasn't kept his mind active. Aides complain that he doesn't even read his morning briefing on the state of world affairs and he gets nearly all of his news from watching TV rather than reading newspapers and magazines. You never, ever, see him with a book in his hand like you did with W. I'd bet money that he doesn't even keep his own golf score. IMO his very lax work ethic is accelerating his mental decline.

[c_hawkbob]

You're right, Bernie is still sharp, but he's definitely grumpy!

[RiverDog]

You're right, Bernie is still sharp, but he's definitely grumpy!

Yup. He's always angry. IMO that seems to rub off on his supporters, too. Even a dedicated socialist like I-5 noted how Sanders supporters scare him more than Trump's.

[c_hawkbob]

now let's not put all of his supporters in the same box, that's no more true than all Trump supporters being Klansmen.

[RiverDog]

now let's not put all of his supporters in the same box, that's no more true than all Trump supporters being Klansmen.

I didn't mean my comment to apply to all Bernie supporters. But collectively, they appear to me to be a lot more....for the lack of a better term...passionate than supporters of other candidates. They seem to have a lot more of an axe to grind than supporters of other candidates, perhaps in part because the DNC stacked the deck against them in 2016. They're definitely a lot more anti establishment.

I heard a conspiracy theory today about Biden, that if he's nominated, he'll select Hillary as a running mate and if they win, he'll wait until a few weeks after his inauguration, reveal a diagnosis of Dementia, and resign.

[c_hawkbob]

I think you're letting the Bernie Bros represent his whole constituency in your mind. But I must admit I do the same with Trump supporters though, so I can't hold it against you.

[Aseahawkfan]

Except that Trump isn't any better and is arguably worse. Remember this is the man that had the Revolutionary Army attacking airports, had Andrew Jackson alive and well during the Civil War, said he was building his border wall between Colorado and Mexico, thought Paris was in Germany, and so on. Plus Trump, with his overuse of Twitter, is essentially using a microphone on stage without anyone there to correct him during every hour that he's awake. And the worst thing about Trump is that unlike Biden, he's so full of himself that he can never admit when he's made a mistake.

Here's a thought: We all remember how old Ronald Reagan was and how he was wracked with confusion during much of his administration. If Joe Biden is elected POTUS, at 78 he'll the same age on his inauguration day that Reagan was on the day he left office. People talk about term limits, but what we should be talking about is assigning a maximum age (there's already a minimum age of 35) qualification for POTUS.

Watching the Trump-Biden debates is going to be like watching Walter Mathieu and Jack Lemmon go at each other in "Grumpy Old Men".

Sorry, man. Trump is not that way when it counts. If Joe Biden does make gaffs when it counts, Trump will eat him alive. One of Trump's greatest wins during the last election was his ability to speak head to head against someone. For whatever reason during debates, he brings his A game. Joe Biden better do the same.

Bush Jr. was painted as dumber than Trump. Left wing media tends to always paint Republican presidents or vice presidents as dumb. I remember back in the day the way they made fun of every Dan Quayle gaffs. They made fun of every George W. Bush gaff. Same with Trump. That is nothing new. You picture him as mentally deficient because of your prejudice. He works crowds way better than Biden. He did well at the debates last year head to head. He doesn't mind preparing for a fight, which he prefers. You tend to latch on to every story that points out some deficiency rather than the vast majority of other times he's speaking quite clearly and rousing his base.

I'd bet money on Trump against anyone on this forum head to head in a debate to win a crowd, even though I know in a trivia contest he would likely lose and not care. You give him some competition in a debate, he'll come ready and he'll go at it strong.

I don't see the same mental decline or slowness of speech I see in Biden when he talks in Trump. Trump just runs his mouth too much whereas Biden seems like he's not always there and is slow to respond at time. Trump will smell that blood in the water like a shark and eat him. I'd rather see Trump and Bernie go at it personally. Both of them are more passionate speakers and sharper on the draw in a head to head debate.

Say what you want about Trump. for a man his age he is very energetic and amped up nearly all the time.

[RiverDog]

You picture him as mentally deficient because of your prejudice.

There's too much about Trump's personal habits that can't be rationalized as just due to someone's prejudice or POV. Remember, I'm a life long conservative that has never voted for a Dem for POTUS since I stated voting in 1972. I'm not the one throwing around all the wild adjectives and on many occasions and subjects, have supported what he's done.

I don't see the same mental decline or slowness of speech I see in Biden when he talks in Trump. Trump just runs his mouth too much whereas Biden seems like he's not always there and is slow to respond at time. Trump will smell that blood in the water like a shark and eat him. I'd rather see Trump and Bernie go at it personally. Both of them are more passionate speakers and sharper on the draw in a head to head debate.

Say what you want about Trump. for a man his age he is very energetic and amped up nearly all the time.

There's not many ways to explain some of the things Trump says and does. Some of the things we see in him, such as a limited vocabulary or deliberately giving us a completely false history lesson about Andrew Jackson and the Civil War, are reflective of his lack of intelligence. None of the people I've been close to, my mom and my best friend, never made up things like Trump did with Old Hickory. When Trump tells the PM of India that "at least you don't have China on your border" or can't find Ukraine on a map, something that a lot of people, young and old, might not know offhand, that's more an indication of being too lazy to prepare and self educate than something like getting two cities in Ohio mixed up that I could see happening with my 81 year old friend.

We'll see what happens.

[c_hawkbob]

From what I can see, and evidently at least some experts, Riv (and Tawk of course) are right about this one: https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-mental-st ... 17342.html

I found it rich that Trump attacked Biden's mental state myself, this reinforced that.

[Aseahawkfan]

There's not many ways to explain some of the things Trump says and does. Some of the things we see in him, such as a limited vocabulary or deliberately giving us a completely false history lesson about Andrew Jackson and the Civil War, are reflective of his lack of intelligence. None of the people I've been close to, my mom and my best friend, never made up things like Trump did with Old Hickory. When Trump tells the PM of India that "at least you don't have China on your border" or can't find Ukraine on a map, something that a lot of people, young and old, might not know offhand, that's more an indication of being too lazy to prepare and self educate than something like getting two cities in Ohio mixed up that I could see happening with my 81 year old friend.

We'll see what happens.

He is lazy and doesn't care to educate himself. He'd rather pay someone to tell him what to say or what he needs to know in conversation.

My contention is he not slow or mentally deficient like Biden. Biden seems to be truly suffering from dementia, whereas Trump is just used to talking and selling. That's what he does all the time without much regard for the accuracy of the info. He'll be happy to hop on Biden's slowness and go after him because that is more fun for him than trying to seem erudite to people that know. Most of his followers and most voters don't know the information he messes up. If the media or some social media user didn't point it out, most people probably wouldn't even know Trump made a gaff.

But Biden saying he's running for the Senate people will know, right then and there. Trump isn't slow to respond at all, he's in fact very fast to respond. He responds to nearly every attack or mistake by someone else.

It's not a sign of dementia, it's laziness. Trump always seems alert and ready to talk. He doesn't care if it's accurate. Neither do his followers if they even bother to determine if the information is accurate or not.

The reason you point this stuff out rather than say IDhawkman is you don't like Trump. You're not as prejudiced as Hawktawk, but you do like to make your shots based on some story or gaff. I see the Trump gaffs as him not much caring. He likes to talk. Trump is still sharp when he needs to be. He loves combat talk. He revels in it. I think Bernie would handle that better than Biden at this point.

[Aseahawkfan]

From what I can see, and evidently at least some experts, Riv (and Tawk of course) are right about this one: https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-mental-st ... 17342.html

I found it rich that Trump attacked Biden's mental state myself, this reinforced that.

Another horsecrap article from Yahoo. Seen these for ages. Same type of article trying to use body language to determine his relationship with Melania. Only true thing about them is Trump's lack of appreciation for accuracy, which he does on purpose because he doesn't care and neither do his followers.

We'll see when Trump and Biden go head to head who comes out looking better. No one votes because the other candidate was more factually accurate, which Trump knows and knows well. One of the major reasons he doesn't care.

Trump's about working crowds and making the other guy look like an idiot when it counts, not after the fact when some reporter fact checks his statements.

And I still say Bernie would do better against Trump head to head than Biden, but the Democrats won't let him have the chance.

And Trump will keep attacking Biden's mental faculties. He doesn't give a rat's behind. He's about taking the other guy out any way he can. You can bet money Hunter Biden's name will come out of Trump's mouth early and often if he is against Biden.

[c_hawkbob]

It's easy to declare anything you disagree with "another horsecrap article", all I take that to mean is you disagree with it.

[RiverDog]

He is lazy and doesn't care to educate himself. He'd rather pay someone to tell him what to say or what he needs to know in conversation.

Yup. Spoiled rich kid syndrome.

My contention is he not slow or mentally deficient like Biden. Biden seems to be truly suffering from dementia, whereas Trump is just used to talking and selling. That's what he does all the time without much regard for the accuracy of the info.

If all he did was not pay enough attention to understand that India does share a border with China, then I could agree. But there is no excuse, laziness or otherwise, for anyone with a high school education to not to know that Colorado doesn't share a border with Mexico or that there weren't airports in the 18th century. I can't think of a clearer example of dementia.

It's not a sign of dementia, it's laziness. Trump always seems alert and ready to talk. He doesn't care if it's accurate. Neither do his followers if they even bother to determine if the information is accurate or not.

You're sorta right and sorta wrong. Laziness can cause a mental decline. It's a proven fact. If you don't challenge your mind by reading, problem solving, etc, your mental acuity will decline more rapidly than it would if it were left in a vacuum. IMO this is what's happened to Trump. I've seen plenty of people in their early 70's that are sharp as a whip. Heck, Bernie Sanders is older than both Trump and Biden and he doesn't show near the mental decline that those two do. But laziness by itself doesn't cause you to forget where your father was born.

[RiverDog]

From what I can see, and evidently at least some experts, Riv (and Tawk of course) are right about this one: https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-mental-st ... 17342.html

I found it rich that Trump attacked Biden's mental state myself, this reinforced that.

Thanks for the link. I disagree somewhat in that Biden's problems are more than just "a few stumbled words." He's had times when he's been extremely confused. IMO the main difference between Biden's problems and those of Trump's is that Biden doesn't have an over inflated ego that doesn't allow one to recognize their situation.

The Trump campaign would be wise to leave sleeping dogs lay and not bring up the subject of mental acuity. It would be less embarrassing for Trump to walk on stage with his fly unzipped than it would to revisit some of his brain farts.

[Aseahawkfan]

Thanks for the link. I disagree somewhat in that Biden's problems are more than just "a few stumbled words." He's had times when he's been extremely confused. IMO the main difference between Biden's problems and those of Trump's is that Biden doesn't have an over inflated ego that doesn't allow one to recognize their situation.

The Trump campaign would be wise to leave sleeping dogs lay and not bring up the subject of mental acuity. It would be less embarrassing for Trump to walk on stage with his fly unzipped than it would to revisit some of his brain farts.

Trump's base don't care anyway. Just like the Trump haters won't care if Biden. We'll see what the swing voters thing. Those are the ones that matter.