election interference

[Hawktawk]

New broke yesterday that Iran is sending Emails disguised as messages from proud boys threatening democratic voters. Russia has also obtained "voter information"in numerouos states . here we go again. Lets say Bidens national lead holds somewhat and he wins the popular vote by 5 or 6 million and suddenly in the few key states Trump "threads the needle" again. I have zero faith that this justice department or this president has done anything protect the integrity of the vote. Here we go again.

[c_hawkbob]

I own a gun too, I ain't afraid of no Proud Boys. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to put one down if he was threatening me or mine even a little bit.

[NorthHawk]

The people that would fall for that type of email are the same ones that would fall for the Nigerian prince story.
It's a pretty clumsy attempt at influence.
The Russians however are and have been actively trying to mess it up as they do in most western democratic elections and
especially so in important ones like the US, France, and Britain.

[RiverDog]

New broke yesterday that Iran is sending Emails disguised as messages from proud boys threatening democratic voters. Russia has also obtained "voter information"in numerouos states . here we go again. Lets say Bidens national lead holds somewhat and he wins the popular vote by 5 or 6 million and suddenly in the few key states Trump "threads the needle" again. I have zero faith that this justice department or this president has done anything protect the integrity of the vote. Here we go again.

A lot to do about nothing. Voting is at a record pace having already reached about 1/3 of the entire vote tally of that in 2016, and they're predicting that this election could be the highest percentage turnout in 100 years. If they're trying to intimidate voters, it ain't working. Besides, if a person is dumb enough to allow themselves to be intimidated by that kind of an email, they're so stupid I'd rather they not be allowed to vote anyway.

Wake me up when they start changing tallies or stuffing ballot boxes.

[Aseahawkfan]

Don't care. Voter fraud accusations back and forth been happening for years whether it's dead people voting, gerrymandering, halting people from voting based on some arbitrary criteria like race, foreign interference that was China during Clinton and is Russia during Trump.

Yet here we are 240 years later about to have another election to decide our officials. It will get done just as it has before and we will be fine, just as we have been.

[RiverDog]

Don't care. Voter fraud accusations back and forth been happening for years whether it's dead people voting, gerrymandering, halting people from voting based on some arbitrary criteria like race, foreign interference that was China during Clinton and is Russia during Trump.

Yet here we are 240 years later about to have another election to decide our officials. It will get done just as it has before and we will be fine, just as we have been.

Yup. Take a look at the 1960 election:

In several Texas counties, later analysis revealed that there had indeed been questionable vote totals. Fannin County in 1960 contained 4,895 registered voters. Fannin County’s returns for the 1960 election counted a total of 6,138 votes for President. About 75% of the ballots cast were for Kennedy/Johnson. In one district of Angelina County where only 86 registered voters were on the voter rolls, 187 votes for Kennedy were counted against 24 for Nixon.

Johnson’s long established political base in Southern Texas centered around Duval County was notorious throughout the 20th century for delivering large numbers of illegal votes, many from Mexicans brought in from across the border, and the region, as expected, went solidly for the Democratic ticket. Republican demands for a statewide recount were thwarted by the Democratic run State Board of Elections’ rapid certification of Kennedy as the winner, supported in their view by the size of his victory margin.

https://historycollection.com/10-high-s ... -stolen/5/

And from more recently:

Chicago, however, is known for its fires, and there was a roaring one there in 1982 that resulted in one of the largest voter fraud prosecutions ever conducted by the U.S. Department of Justice. The telltale smoke arose out of one of the closest governor's races in Illi­nois history; and as for the fire, the U.S. Attorney in Chicago at the time, Daniel Webb, estimated that at least 100,000 fraudulent votes (10 percent of all votes in the city) had been cast.[2] Sixty-five individuals were indicted for federal election crimes, and all but two (one found incompetent to stand trial and another who died) were convicted. [3]

Tactics similar to those documented in the Chicago case have come to light in recent elections in Philadel­phia and in the states of Wisconsin and Tennessee. The Daley machine may be legendary in modern times for its election fraud prowess, but these recent cases show that the incentives and opportunities for fraud have not lessened.

5,217 "students" who were registered to vote at a polling place located within the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee who listed as their resi­dence an on-campus dormitory that housed only 2,600 students;

At least 220 ineligible felons who had voted;

370 addresses that were not legal residences in the city;

Residents of other states (such as a voter from Chicago) who registered and voted in Milwaukee;

Numerous staffers from out of state who were working for the Kerry campaign or the Environ­mental Victory Campaign, a political action committee, and who illegally registered and voted in Milwaukee; and

Hundreds of homeless individuals registered as living at office buildings, at store fronts, and in multiple locations who were "able to vote in different districts and, by sheer number, could have an impact on a closely contested local election."[62]

https://www.heritage.org/election-integ ... es-chicago

And to think that we're worried about unsolicited emails that likely end up in people's junk mail folders. Like I said before, unless and until I hear stories about actual vote count manipulations, I'm not going to get my briefs in a wad over comparatively trivial activities like unsolicited emails, stealing voter info, or disinformation campaigns.

[Aseahawkfan]

Sensible people know what this is: making excuses for losses. The Republicans and Democrats are both trying to build excuses for their failures in advance.

[Hawktawk]

https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... 4f895caa65
The hell with Russia when Trumps hand picked personal donor of over 1.5 milion to Trumps Pac, hired in July with no experience whatsoever and here we are. And 45% of americans will be happy if this prevents 5% of Bidens voters from voting so they can win and keep the cult going.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ction.html
Nobody benefits more from a second term than this guy with his humongous ICBM he just rolled out.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8872839/National-Guard-called-thwart-cyberattack-Louisiana-weeks-election.html
Nobody benefits more from a second term than this guy with his humongous ICBM he just rolled out.

North Korea is about as dangerous to us as a crying infant to Brian Shaw. If they ever try to step up to battle us for real, we will decimate them.

[RiverDog]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8872839/National-Guard-called-thwart-cyberattack-Louisiana-weeks-election.html
Nobody benefits more from a second term than this guy with his humongous ICBM he just rolled out.

North Korea is about as dangerous to us as a crying infant to Brian Shaw. If they ever try to step up to battle us for real, we will decimate them.

I've spoken to some high ranking military folks that have assured me that if North Korea ever launches a missile and successfully hits Japan or a US possession that it will be the last missile that they ever launch. I am very confident that this certainty has been impressed upon Kim.

[obiken]

Sensible people know what this is: making excuses for losses. The Republicans and Democrats are both trying to build excuses for their failures in advance.

I agree AF, there are just some elections that are close, just by their nature. That's when you have to have a good ground game, the political equivalent of a good FG kicker in the NFL. The numbers I am running say this is not going to be that close your looking at Biden by 330 at least.

[Hawktawk]

If Kim launches one multiple warhead icbm at the US it really doesn't matter our response we will lose thousands of lives, maybe millions and be devastated . Sure we win but...This administration has allowed our nation to be completely cripped by a virus. Imagine multiple nuke strikes.....

[RiverDog]

If Kim launches one multiple warhead icbm at the US it really doesn't matter our response we will lose thousands of lives, maybe millions and be devastated . Sure we win but...This administration has allowed our nation to be completely cripped by a virus. Imagine multiple nuke strikes.....

Simply launching an ICBM doesn't guarantee an on target delivery and successful warhead detonation, and you're assuming that we do not have defense system capable of shooting one down.

Chill out, bro! Our nightmare is almost over!

[Hawktawk]

I read a very interesting statement made by Trumps Puppet master Putin a couple days ago. Regarding this Biden corruption angle he said as far as he was concerned Hunter Biden had made a good business move in Ukraine and made some money and that he saw nothing wrong with that. He said this does not concern him at all and he basically sees nothing Joe Biden did wrong.He denied that Russia had anything to do with this laptop email thing saying this isn't between russia and Biden, its between them and Ukraine. Frankly I dont believe Putin, Im sure they were involved.

I trust Putin zero and am not sure his game. maybe hedging his bets seeing that all the tea in china cant help his patsy anymore and not wanting to be punished for meddling so buttering up a bit? Ill try to find the article and link it. But if Putin is ditching trump he's cooked for sure.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/ ... 731775.php
Right here in america. Sieg heil!!!

[Aseahawkfan]

I read a very interesting statement made by Trumps Puppet master Putin a couple days ago. Regarding this Biden corruption angle he said as far as he was concerned Hunter Biden had made a good business move in Ukraine and made some money and that he saw nothing wrong with that. He said this does not concern him at all and he basically sees nothing Joe Biden did wrong.He denied that Russia had anything to do with this laptop email thing saying this isn't between russia and Biden, its between them and Ukraine. Frankly I dont believe Putin, Im sure they were involved.

I trust Putin zero and am not sure his game. maybe hedging his bets seeing that all the tea in china cant help his patsy anymore and not wanting to be punished for meddling so buttering up a bit? Ill try to find the article and link it. But if Putin is ditching trump he's cooked for sure.

You don't even know the first thing about Russia, who they work with, or their interests you media puppet.

Spend some more time reading who Russia does trade with to see where the money goes, then maybe you'll wake up that Putin doesn't care much about Trump, America, or the like. Probably laughs his ass off at American idiots who think he installed the president of the United States and that America is so weak as to allow this.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="Aseahawkfan"

You don't even know the first thing about Russia, who they work with, or their interests you media puppet.

Spend some more time reading who Russia does trade with to see where the money goes, then maybe you'll wake up that Putin doesn't care much about Trump, America, or the like. Probably laughs his ass off at American idiots who think he installed the president of the United States and that America is so weak as to allow this.[/quote]

You're way off on this one. Russia is, as Mitt Romney said so clearly in the 2012 debate"our greatest geopolitical foe". Its unfortunate mitt isn't finishing his 8 year term but he was too much of a rhino for the slathering disgusting trump voters. Bury your head in the sand if you must asea, Russia is living off alaska and menacing us in ways unseen since the cold war as this pres fires out top military commander and top brass and floats idea of attacks and draconian troop withdrawals as a lame duck. Putin may not have "installed him" but he interfered on his behalf and preferred him, compromised and blackmailed him,groomed him, financed him.Trumps basically been a russian asset for 4 years and this is an attitude shared by many in the intelligence comunity.Youre sound asleep and have been on the subject from the moment the news of the interference broke. Ukraine too, You poo poon unacceptable treasonous behavior out of the president of the united states for whatever reason. You're smarter than you sound on the subject.

You and most americans have a real false sense of security regarding our enemies who have feasted off the table of trumps incompetence.

[I-5]

I don't understand asf's soft shoe dance about Russia, either. Unless someone here is an actual Russia expert who knows more than our intelligence agencies and our national leaders (not counting the tool in the WH), I'm going with their word over anyone here. Yes, Russia has its glory in its rearview mirror, but if anything that make them more dangerous, as we know that Putin pulls ALL the strings, both public and private, overt and covert, he murders his critics when he can, and although no one knows everything in his mind (including asf), he has talked himself about missing the days of the Soviet Union. Russia is not our friend, their national interest does not align with the US, they occupy 1/8 of the land mass of the world, and are the biggest nuclear threat to our existence.

[I-5]

Simply launching an ICBM doesn't guarantee an on target delivery and successful warhead detonation, and you're assuming that we do not have defense system capable of shooting one down. Chill out, bro! Our nightmare is almost over!

I believe HT was talking about millions of lives in N Korea. Regardless of which country it happens in, nuclear war is something none of us can even imagine if it actually happened. He is a tyrant, but I don't think Kim is crazy. Just imagine if he was, though.

[NorthHawk]

What people don't seem to get about a nuclear attack is the fallout would affect everyone. If it happened in N. Korea we would be
greatly affected by that fallout. If they attacked the US, it would probably be on the West Coast.

China is a long term threat and may be greater in that they also have a huge economy that can influence or rather impact western
economies by restricting supply lines and others. If they successfully become the dominant reserve currency, there would probably be
a big increase in prices almost over night - if the example of Britain is any indication. But China's interference in this election isn't
something they seem to care much about other than gathering intelligence about who might win. They have more of a long view of
influence by way of coercion, co-option, and corruption. They set up organizations like a "Friendship Alliance" with lower level politicians
and then go to work co-opting them and softening them up by way of trips and parties. As some of these lower level politicians become
familiar with these Chinese agents, they often get loans or mortgages from Chinese owned banks and such. It's a very subtle way of
extending Chinese influence and they are doing it all around the world. When these lower level politicians move up as some of them do,
they can be corrupted by the Chinese - or at least heavily influenced by their relationships built over years.

Russia is different. They want to disrupt things today and take advantage of any weakness for their benefit. In France, they bankrolled
much of the far right party led by Marine LePen who almost beat Macron in their election and there have been comments that the Russians
had a part in the Brexit vote with disinformation.

[I-5]

China is a long term threat and may be greater in that they also have a huge economy that can influence or rather impact western
economies by restricting supply lines and others. If they successfully become the dominant reserve currency, there would probably be
a big increase in prices almost over night - if the example of Britain is any indication. But China's interference in this election isn't
something they seem to care much about other than gathering intelligence about who might win. They have more of a long view of
influence by way of coercion, co-option, and corruption. They set up organizations like a "Friendship Alliance" with lower level politicians
and then go to work co-opting them and softening them up by way of trips and parties. As some of these lower level politicians become
familiar with these Chinese agents, they often get loans or mortgages from Chinese owned banks and such. It's a very subtle way of
extending Chinese influence and they are doing it all around the world. When these lower level politicians move up as some of them do,
they can be corrupted by the Chinese - or at least heavily influenced by their relationships built over years.

Russia is different. They want to disrupt things today and take advantage of any weakness for their benefit. In France, they bankrolled
much of the far right party led by Marine LePen who almost beat Macron in their election and there have been comments that the Russians
had a part in the Brexit vote with disinformation.

Thank you North. I think you are dead on with your analysis of the two countries.

And yes, no matter who 'loses' a nuclear war, there is no such thing as a victory. It's a danger to the entire world, and could end life as we know it.

[Hawktawk]

Thank you North. I think you are dead on with your analysis of the two countries.

And yes, no matter who 'loses' a nuclear war, there is no such thing as a victory. It's a danger to the entire world, and could end life as we know it.

Yup
So why has Russia been hell bent for leather building the worlds most modern lethal purely offensive arsenal including a massive ICBM dubbed satan II that can wipe out an area the size of texas with its payload? Their most modern in the world nuke attack subs are the quietest in the world, one was able to operate off the southeastern coast of the unites states for almost 2 months before being discovered. Spooks call them "the black hole"They are menacing us in unprecedented fashion off the coast of alaska with air incursions and navy destroyers harassing our fishing fleet in international waters.Why? What happens the time it is not a drill and they are right on us?
Why has China been on a "crash" Nuclear warhead and missile program?Why are they buttressing their forts in the south china sea and threatening to attack Taiwan? Why did Putin discuss a possible military alliance with china?


There are military people who think a nuclear war is winnable if you get off first. Russia conducted an emergency preparedness drill a couple years ago involving over 40 million Russians.Why? They have enough bomb shelters under moscow to house the entire 12 million population of the city.Why?How many bomb shelters do we have? we cant even get people to wear masks As I've said they snoop around our undersea communications cables.They have hacked into our power grids.

If someone is thinking about taking a shot there would be no better time. Plus if America got wiped out in an hour the rest of the world would be somewhat shielded by the oceans on either side.""Oh woe is babylon the great, a great nation surrounded by water where all the nations of the world came to trade destroyed in an hour.Stars falling from the sky,a third of the ships in the sea sunk, a third of the green grass burned up".Its a prophecy from the book of revelations and frankly i feel these times have an end of times feel. I always kinda thought as a believing man we were who that revelation prophecy was talking about. I dont want it to be so. just sayin..How would a guy who wore camel hair clothes and walked around in sandals 4K years ago describe a nuclear war he saw in a vison....How would he describe america?

It doesn't matter if a nuclear war is winnable or not, just if someone with their hand on the button thinks so. I'm bipolar AF , didn't know it until I was 51 but I've had premonitions I would see nuclear war in my lifetime since I was a child. I saw an interview with the british minister of defence who warned there could be world war 3 in the making with the chaos surrounding the markets, world economies, the pandemic raging and fuctopolous showing by the minute he will do anything to hold power. Henry Kissinger warned of the potential for world war the other day as well.I never thought a guy like trump could ever sniff the WH and be commander in chief either.Anything could happen.


Doomsday clock is an 50 seconds to midnight. I dont want to be a debbie downer, wish I felt happy happy joy joy but I have a sense of dark foreboding and have since the baboon came down the escalator and here we are, a hairs breath from belarus with nukes. Trump should be removed forcibly from power yesterday but we will just play trump roulette and see what happens with the sheep enabling him.

[Aseahawkfan]

What people don't seem to get about a nuclear attack is the fallout would affect everyone. If it happened in N. Korea we would be
greatly affected by that fallout. If they attacked the US, it would probably be on the West Coast.

China is a long term threat and may be greater in that they also have a huge economy that can influence or rather impact western
economies by restricting supply lines and others. If they successfully become the dominant reserve currency, there would probably be
a big increase in prices almost over night - if the example of Britain is any indication. But China's interference in this election isn't
something they seem to care much about other than gathering intelligence about who might win. They have more of a long view of
influence by way of coercion, co-option, and corruption. They set up organizations like a "Friendship Alliance" with lower level politicians
and then go to work co-opting them and softening them up by way of trips and parties. As some of these lower level politicians become
familiar with these Chinese agents, they often get loans or mortgages from Chinese owned banks and such. It's a very subtle way of
extending Chinese influence and they are doing it all around the world. When these lower level politicians move up as some of them do,
they can be corrupted by the Chinese - or at least heavily influenced by their relationships built over years.

Russia is different. They want to disrupt things today and take advantage of any weakness for their benefit. In France, they bankrolled
much of the far right party led by Marine LePen who almost beat Macron in their election and there have been comments that the Russians
had a part in the Brexit vote with disinformation.

Explain to me how they have benefitted. We are not in the 80s any longer. People need to get with the times and the global nature of the economy including Russia. No one is interested in causing wars between nations any longer as they don't benefit anyone. There is a near zero chance of war between Russia and the United States or any associated nations. What Russia, China, and America do to each other amounts to more corporate espionage than anything else. If we were to sanction and put Russia's economy into the toilet so they couldn't care for their people, we would be more likely to initiate a world war. You can't force any other nation into a position where their only option for resources is to make war on neighbors. No one is much interested in that. Russia has at best maintained some of its associations, but it is not economically powerful enough to exert the same political influence as America. It's association in Syria dates back decades. It is really one of the few they have left. America could end that as well if they decided to be friends with Syria and Iran. The only reason Russia is able to maintain most of its associations is because America chooses to not associate with nations like Iran and Syria due to our relationship with Saudi Arabia and Israel. Saudi Arabia and associates representing the Sunni branch of Islam and Israel obviously supported due to its location with support from Christian Evangelicals and Americans Jewish folk. Hopefully that pointless conflict between the Iran and Saudi Arabia we will stop supporting soon as it doesn't benefit us long-term.

I do not understand why so many Americans don't read the financial news more. You will see more how things work than this BS from national security people trying to prop up Cold War propaganda that was true 30 years ago, but isn't at all like it is now. Do you know that Russia is one of the primary suppliers of oil to Germany? American leverages Saudi Arabia and Middle Eastern oil to sanction Russia when they are at odds. There is a Nord Stream pipeline from Russia to Germany through Europe to supply oil for Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

Gazprom is a major Russian oil producer that has a strong relationship with Europe for energy. Russia competes against other oil producing nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazprom Gazprom and Russia are far more reliant on Europe for economic success than America.
Russia is a major natural resource producer for a variety of nations. http://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-10-exports/

Russia and America aren't that connected any longer. Russia isn't a powerful enemy to us. They aren't particularly potent economically. As far as being disruptive, we are more disruptive internationally than Russia. You see our hand in more places than Russia by far.

Russia is a shrinking empire with dwindling influence only returned to power as a threat for this short time during the Trump presidency because the Democrats found it expedient to push a Kremlin Candidate Theory to the Democrats and anti-Trump supporters that will soon be forgotten once Biden is in office. I will kind of chuckle when all the Democrats and anti-Trumpers who bought into the Russia angle get to wonder why once Biden is in office Russia goes back to being a near non-factor in American politics because the Democrats will no longer need to sell the Trump as Russian Puppet theory that was apparently so effective for them.

So we'll make a gentleman's bet that once Biden is in office, Russia doesn't get brought up much at all. Russia will become a near non-factor as we face other issues as America manufactures a different enemy to politically manipulate their people as needed.

[Hawktawk]

MMM OK why are they menacing us militarily then? You're a super smart guy that understands the $ well but you kind of make my point about Russia.They are a failing state with all their eggs in one basket, the most powerful nuclear arsenal on the planet. Id get carpal tunnel listing all the pro russia things Trump has done, the strange inability to criticise Putin and in fact to throw our intelligence services under the bus in Helsinki stating that he believed Putin's denials of the election interference. Dan Coates former NSA head, Trump appointee and former indiana R Senator said"Russia has something on him". They have had 5 face to face meetings of which there are no records and even the interpreters notes were confiscated and they were forced to sign NDAs.

Always something about Russia with Trump.
and I think its good we have an incoming leader than understands the danger they pose and is not blackmailed by Putin.Collusion wont be in the news but The Biden administration will be well aware of russia I am sure.

[Aseahawkfan]

MMM OK why are they menacing us militarily then? You're a super smart guy that understands the $ well but you kind of make my point about Russia.They are a failing state with all their eggs in one basket, the most powerful nuclear arsenal on the planet. Id get carpal tunnel listing all the pro russia things Trump has done, the strange inability to criticise Putin and in fact to throw our intelligence services under the bus in Helsinki stating that he believed Putin's denials of the election interference. Dan Coates former NSA head, Trump appointee and former indiana R Senator said"Russia has something on him". They have had 5 face to face meetings of which there are no records and even the interpreters notes were confiscated and they were forced to sign NDAs.

Always something about Russia with Trump.
and I think its good we have an incoming leader than understands the danger they pose and is not blackmailed by Putin.Collusion wont be in the news but The Biden administration will be well aware of russia I am sure.

Russia's primary issues arise with the former Soviet States. Which is why we're aligned with many of them including the largest one Ukraine. Russia is a very potent threat to the Ukraine because it does not want to give up power over its former Soviet States. That's why the president of Ukraine likely had a very good relationship with Obama and Biden and was willing to entertain Trump's talk. The Ukraine wants no issues with America as arms and assistance from us allow them to maintain their independence and stand up to Russia. But once again that is a threat to Ukraine and the United States feels it is important to maintain relations with former Soviet States if we are able as that expands our markets and maintain our global dominance.

But Russia has no means to attack and invade us, but more importantly no motivation to do so. They would ruin their economic relationship with Europe engaging in a war or military conflict with us. They would disrupt their own security and economy by doing so. The best they could have obtained from Trump is a lifting of the Ukraine sanctions, but Trump can't do that alone and didn't do it.

Our relationship with Russia has not substantially changed from our time under the Obama Administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_Ukrainian_crisis#:~:text=In%20December%202019%2C%20the%20EU,billion%20(as%20of%202015).

If Trump had real power to help Russia or was controlled by Russia, the sanctions would have been the first thing to go, but they didn't.

Our relationship with Russia is no better or worse from a factual standpoint. The entire Trump as Russian puppet scenario has not produced even moderately improved results for Russia other than in the press. I'm not sure why it continues absent strong evidence Russia has gained during Trump other than the narrative being a political attack on Trump.

The reality is there are very powerful people, more powerful than Putin in America. If Trump were controllable, he would be controlled by powerful Americans with better intelligence and more money than Putin. Trump isn't a person who can be controlled by anyone including Putin. He's too much of a narcissistic jackass. He just wants to get along with Russia because he likes that area of the world. He's married two wives from former Soviet States. He knows Eastern European and Slavic people well. He likes Russian and Eastern European women. He'd love better relations with that area as a matter of personal preference, not because Putin controls him or Russian is dangerous to us.

I know this will likely fall on deaf ears, but it is what the facts support. He may have listened to Russian lobbyists, but I'm sure that happens with a lot of different people as we have a lot of Russians here, especially in Alaska apparently. Some guy who lived in Alaska used to tell me about all the Russian immigrants in Alaska. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Americans Makes sense given the proximity to Russia.

[Hawktawk]

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump ... c37859d67b
Aint that the truth. Is this really happening? he looks evil and crazy in that photo too.

[c_hawkbob]

He's been doing Russia's work for them for at least 4 years now (since 2008 if you include the birther movement), whether at their direct behest or not is immaterial. If he's not an actual asset he's at least the most malleable puppet ever.

[I-5]

If Putin doesn't personally have something on Trump, then someone please explain all of Trump's bidding on behalf of Russia just during his presidency, even to the point of risking his own standing (what's left of it). It's a long list.

[Aseahawkfan]

If Putin doesn't personally have something on Trump, then someone please explain all of Trump's bidding on behalf of Russia just during his presidency, even to the point of risking his own standing (what's left of it). It's a long list.

Show me the material effect of helping Russia. Show me their improved economy, military standing, or any material effect from Trump's so called Russian help.

List it. Not just some kind of hearsay as you do so often, but real material effect that is helping them. Nothing has changed for Russia that I can see measured. All you post is allusion, not real material effect.

[Aseahawkfan]

He's been doing Russia's work for them for at least 4 years now (since 2008 if you include the birther movement), whether at their direct behest or not is immaterial. If he's not an actual asset he's at least the most malleable puppet ever.

What do you mean Russia's work? What exactly has Russia gained from this work?

This is the kind of unsubstantiated rubbish the right is supposed to push with the smallest of evidence. It's like the birther conspiracy or the 9/11 rubbish. You have zero evidence that Russia has gained anything from what you claim he's doing.

Russia has been this boogeyman in America for ages. It used to be that Russia supposedly influenced the Democratic Left and seeded universities with socialists and communists pushing that philosophy. But now it's the right that is being manipulated by Russia?

Really? That's how you see it with no evidence that this supposed interference has benefited them. You just believe every news story put out? Yet you don't believe the Biden stories or associations because they hurt your viewpoint?

Russia is washed up. They have no real power in the world. Blaming them for what's going on in America is pure poppycock and excuses.

Russia been the boogeyman for ages supposedly manipulating socialist and communist sentiment since the 60s or before. But now they're manipulating the right. Just more BS excuses for terrible politics by these parties. Look in the mirror for America's problems. They are here with their own people, media, and political parties, not foreign interference. Politicians and Americans just want some outside source to blame for their own failings as a people and a nation.

Russia is nothing to America. They do not challenge us in any way.

[c_hawkbob]

You're so full of it Asea, I can't for the life if me understand your hyper defensiveness of Russia. I'm not going back down this rabbit hole with you.