2020 General Election

[Hawktawk]

Have you watched Kamala Harris speak on the police? She is firmly on the other side against the police or at least she has publicly made it seem so. Whether or not she'll actually follow up her words when elected, time will tell. Kamala Harris is very politically and doesn't want to rock the boat too much.

Biden is more sensible. But at the same time Bernie Sanders and The Squad stated in an interview that Fox News got ahold with them stating they plan to push Joe Biden to be the next FDR. Likely Fox News hyping up election fears, but I am absolutely certain Ocasio-Cortez will definitely try to push Joe Biden farther left.

Let's not pretend that this is a good move for those of us that don't believe in the Trump or Democrat platform. I have a hard time imagining that once Trump is gone and you see what the Democrats start doing if they take all three houses if you don't start to look for some other candidate once Trump is gone.

Kamala Harris is a skilled politician who knows when to play to the base and when to move to the center for the general although frankly had she cast herself as the younger centrist option to Biden instead of kooky answers like providing health care for illegals might have cost her the nomination. I had no sense she was particularly bound to the ideology and she has backed away from single payer health care and providing it to illegals. As she responded in an interview when asked about her stern questioning of Biden regarding the crime legislation he championed that proportionally affected black males that elevated her temporarily in the primary she laughed and said "its a primary election" I said it in a debate in a primary election." She went on to point out that Biden is loved by blacks and has spent his entire career trying to improve their plight.

She ran one of the largest justice systems in the nation in California for 7 years and received campaign contributions from both DJT and Ivanka during those campaigns. Neither she nor Biden favors defunding cops. They favor reforms in policing and the justice system in general and so do I. White murderers often get treated better than black guys who committed a petty crime. Voters agree too as Biden has steadily climbed in Wisconsin since the violence and Trumps fascist actions in lafayette square. Pennsylvania is a bit trickier with the law and order questions and the police shoot pumping 17 slugs in a guy with mental issues holding a knife did not help Biden with the renewed violence a few days from the general. I've seen polls that show Penn tightening just today but with all the mail and early voting and blah blah blah who really knows?

One thing I know. Trump is gonna declare victory election night or say tis rigged and his people are gonna be in the streets and so is antifa. lock and load This evil man is bringing america to the brink. I'm no tool of Biden, he's the only blunt instrument I can swing at the trumpanzees. I was planning on just voting for a third party or daffy duck like i did for governor.But in the last 6 weeks I've changed my mind. I'm going to enthusiastically vote biden(already did) and straight ticket D or write ins. I'm gonna support Biden till he gives me a good reason not to. As I've said I hope he or Harris wins in the landslide in 2024 because it will mean something great has happened, they have done something great for the american people. My guess is by the time midterm comes around there will be people wanting to break up the tri power(ill b eleive any of it when I see it) but truly the only hope for americans to beat this pandemic is for there to be a change at the top right now and these republican senators who have enabled madness and criminality for 4 years have forfeited the right to stay in power.

[Hawktawk]

Not a smart aleck question, but I didn't say it would stop with a Trump win. It is possible we could see more unrest, initially, if Trump pulls out a win. I think a lot of it will die down with whoever wins, with a Trump win keeping the flame burning a little longer, but that too will fizzle out once people have to accept reality. I don't know the motivations and intentions of all protestors. Maybe some really believe they are justified in destruction and stealing, maybe some are just opportunists using it to their advantage, I don't know. My perception is that the left is okay with it and the people participating know it.

Besides recommending governors to deploy their National Guardsmen to help protect citizens and property and publicly decrying rioting and looting, I can't think of anything else he has done. Well, there was the federal agents deployed in Portland. Beyond that, what can he do? Martial law? I say that knowing it is an exaggeration, but I really don't know what else you want him to do. What I haven't seen is anybody any Democrat leadership giving anything more than lip service to condemning rioting, looting, and violence. In my opinion, they haven't come out strongly against it (i.e. supporting arrest and prosecution to the extent lawfully possible) because they worry they'll turn off some of their base. Hell, the CHOP lasted a hell of a lot longer than it should have and that was one of the dumbest things I have seen allowed to happen by a state governor. I don't believe there has been a unified front against this behavior because the Democrats don't want to lose support while the GOP knows that a hard stance will go over well with it's voter base. So, no, I am not voting for the side that I perceive as supporting it/not strongly opposing it.

I'm more worried about running out of doctors and nurses than cuts to law enforcement.We will be running out in days or weeks with the inaction of this administration.Talk about chaos.

Talk about dangerous. We are not FINE with trump now, forget if the loon gets reelected.You forget his utterly fascist actions in lafayette square which supercharged these protests which had begun to wane before the Kenosha shootings and the riot police smashing mostly black people holding up signs for a photo op.. Same for his masked jack booted thugs in unmarked vans beating up and kidnapping protesters in the streets of portland, snooping on their private communications . When your an anti fascist organization dealing with a fascist administration it will never get better as long as that man is in power. it will get worse. A 20 foot high un scaleable fence is being erected arou0nd the WH as i type. They know this is a powder keg lit by Trump and the man should have been removed under the 25th amendment over his recent behavior. Add The proud boys and QAnoon who have accounted for more arrests and violence than the protesters. I doubt we will be FINE with Biden but at least he's a responsible adult who believes in science and medicine and knows how to reach across the aisle, calm people down.

There will be mass violence in the streets tomorrow because of this lunatic sowing doubt trying to steal the election.

I respect your opinion but it saddens me. Any american supporting a fascist mentally ill person over ideology is sad to me.Scary its tens of millions.

[Aseahawkfan]

The answer is that you're both right. I5 is right in that this is Donald Trump's America. He is doing nothing but pouring gas on the fire, with his rhetoric and his refusal to repudiate white supremacy. As General Mattis once said, Trump is the first POTUS that doesn't even try to unite us. He derives his power by dividing people.

On the other hand, ASF is correct in that the Dems have done absolutely nothing to stop the rioting and looting and have created a situation where WSE's see the unrestricted violence as an opportunity to get in on the action themselves and confront what they see as a threat to their way of life. The Democrats refusal to protect lives and property is largely responsible for the problems we've had this summer.

I work in downtown Seattle. I don't even need a news station to see what the Democrats are doing because it is happening right in front of my face. It's why I avoid Seattle like the plague when not working.

1. I watched as the local news warned anyone in Seattle to stay inside as "protesters" attacked cops cars, broke windows to the point we had boarded up windows all over Seattle from the damage, and caused general chaos.

2. We were told to stay away from Capitol Hill as a City Mayor ordered a police precinct to withdraw from the Capitol Hill Area to avoid violence from the protesters.

3. I was here when the city told anyone to avoid going to Capitol Hill because protesters had taken over and were not allowing police and emergency services to go into the area.

Now I also saw the majority of protesters were peaceful. They passed by me with no problems as I was trying to go home one night. I also saw that a percentage were violent and willing to attack the police. And that the City Council, Mayor, and Governor, all Democratic, were either unwilling or unable to retake control of the police precinct or city blocks until a murder took place.

This is all documented.

Even now there are several buildings who stopped repairing their windows because someone just came by and broke them again and again and again.

It is even rumored that a member of the City Council opened the Seattle City Hall up for the protesters to flood in and stage a sit in protest. Fricking ridiculous.

This is what I live with in Seattle where businesses are questioning why to remain in a place where the government is not willing to do what is needed to keep order.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm more worried about running out of doctors and nurses than cuts to law enforcement.We will be running out in days or weeks with the inaction of this administration.Talk about chaos.

Talk about dangerous. We are not FINE with trump now, forget if the loon gets reelected.You forget his utterly fascist actions in lafayette square which supercharged these protests which had begun to wane before the Kenosha shootings and the riot police smashing mostly black people holding up signs for a photo op.. Same for his masked jack booted thugs in unmarked vans beating up and kidnapping protesters in the streets of portland, snooping on their private communications . When your an anti fascist organization dealing with a fascist administration it will never get better as long as that man is in power. it will get worse. A 20 foot high un scaleable fence is being erected arou0nd the WH as i type. They know this is a powder keg lit by Trump and the man should have been removed under the 25th amendment over his recent behavior. Add The proud boys and QAnoon who have accounted for more arrests and violence than the protesters. I doubt we will be FINE with Biden but at least he's a responsible adult who believes in science and medicine and knows how to reach across the aisle, calm people down.

There will be mass violence in the streets tomorrow because of this lunatic sowing doubt trying to steal the election.

I respect your opinion but it saddens me. Any american supporting a fascist mentally ill person over ideology is sad to me.Scary its tens of millions.

How can you who was a Republican for such a long time not see how bad the left is too? You literally watch them tear this nation and its history apart on a continuous basis. Somehow you're now ok with it because of Trump? Really?

Trump is a rotten guy. But don't try to sell me the left stands for much better. You know that is rubbish. Your so blind with Trump hatred you are ignoring what they do at this point. You won't be able to ignore it once Trump is gone. You'll have to see all their ugly identity politics and strange ideas they are pushing on the populace again.

[RiverDog]

I've been watching the polls almost daily for the the last several months. In the past couple of weeks, there has been a noticeable trend in the battleground states. Trump has gained several percentage points almost across the board in PA, MI, WI, NC, etc. However, Biden's numbers remain flat, and he's still at that magical 50% mark, which means that Trump has been attracting the few remaining undecided voters.

My own take on this is that Biden's performance over the last part of October, including in the last debate, has been poor. In particular, there are two subjects where he's lost ground to Trump: He has failed to come out against the Dem's court packing plan, giving a very tepid response about forming a committee to study judicial reform. The other subject that has caused him to lose ground is on the uncertainty over his energy policy, a hot button issue for the rust belt states.

If this were a normal election, it would be more cause for alarm if you're hoping for a Biden win. But in this cycle, there's been so many votes cast that the current polls are much less relevant than they would be if everyone were voting tomorrow.

Given the huge amount of early voting and that Dems are more likely to take advantage of early voting as are Republicans, I'm still very optimistic that we're going to see a Biden win tomorrow.

[Aseahawkfan]

I've been watching the polls almost daily for the the last several months. In the past couple of weeks, there has been a noticeable trend in the battleground states. Trump has gained several percentage points almost across the board in PA, MI, WI, NC, etc. However, Biden's numbers remain flat, and he's still at that magical 50% mark, which means that Trump has been attracting the few remaining undecided voters.

My own take on this is that Biden's performance over the last part of October, including in the last debate, has been poor. In particular, there are two subjects where he's lost ground to Trump: He has failed to come out against the Dem's court packing plan, giving a very tepid response about forming a committee to study judicial reform. The other subject that has caused him to lose ground is on the uncertainty over his energy policy, a hot button issue for the rust belt states.

If this were a normal election, it would be more cause for alarm if you're hoping for a Biden win. But in this cycle, there's been so many votes cast that the current polls are much less relevant than they would be if everyone were voting tomorrow.

Given the huge amount of early voting and that Dems are more likely to take advantage of early voting as are Republicans, I'm still very optimistic that we're going to see a Biden win tomorrow.

Republicans seem equally confident Trump is going to win.

The true nightmare is Trump winning with the Senate flipping Democrat. Chaos for years as the Democrats move to impeach, stall everything he wants to do, he vetoes everything they want to do, total chaos, arguing, government paralysis during a pandemic. I can only hope if Trump wins the Senate flips, Trump will want to make people happy signing a huge stimulus since he's not a real Republican. I can see him going with the Democrats just to make people happy.

[RiverDog]

The true nightmare is Trump winning with the Senate flipping Democrat. Chaos for years as the Democrats move to impeach, stall everything he wants to do, he vetoes everything they want to do, total chaos, arguing, government paralysis during a pandemic. I can only hope if Trump wins the Senate flips, Trump will want to make people happy signing a huge stimulus since he's not a real Republican. I can see him going with the Democrats just to make people happy.

The Dems flipping the Senate wouldn't be such a bad thing if the Republicans win the presidency. I'm more comfortable with divided government than I am when one party is in control. And as far as impeachment goes, the Dems have already shot their wad, which was my main reason that I opposed them going after him when they knew that the couldn't get him as it's going to make it more difficult to prosecute a case against him in a second term.

Besides, the fact that the Dems might control the Senate by a 2 or 3 seat margin doesn't mean squat in an impeachment trial. It takes a 2/3 vote for removal from office so any successful attempt would still have to rely on a significant amount of bipartisan agreement.

[RiverDog]

I read an interesting piece in the NYT that talked about analyzing the early vote:

The earliest meaningful results. They will arrive shortly after 7 p.m.(ET), after polls close in much of Florida and Georgia. Thirty minutes later, North Carolina’s polls also close.

Those three states are worth watching for two reasons: First, if Joe Biden wins any of the three, he becomes an overwhelming favorite to win the presidency. Second, the three seem likely to count votes in a more easily decipherable way than almost any other state.

They will announce not only where ballots were coming from but also how those ballots were cast. That distinction is crucial, because the mail-in vote will lean Democratic in most states while the in-person vote will lean Republican. But nobody knows exactly how big the skew will be — so reported vote counts that don’t distinguish between in-person and mail-in ballots will be extremely difficult to analyze.

The article makes a great point about this year's election. Since the political skew between advanced ballots, cast by predominantly Biden voters, and voting in person on election day, mostly Trump voters, is so great that an incomplete total vote count really doesn't mean much. It used to be that they'd project a winner after a relatively few number of ballots had been counted as they could trust that the percentages wouldn't change much.

Another variable in finding out the winner of individual states is when advance ballots can start to be counted. Georgia can start counting them the day they were received whereas Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, two of the three "blue wall" states critical to a Trump victory, can't start counting them until the morning of election day.

Looks like the state to watch tonight will be Georgia as they should already have a significant number of ballots counted and they'll tell us how they were cast.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="Aseahawkfan"
How can you who was a Republican for such a long time not see how bad the left is too? You literally watch them tear this nation and its history apart on a continuous basis. Somehow you're now ok with it because of Trump? Really?

Trump is a rotten guy. But don't try to sell me the left stands for much better. You know that is rubbish. Your so blind with Trump hatred you are ignoring what they do at this point. You won't be able to ignore it once Trump is gone. You'll have to see all their ugly identity politics and strange ideas they are pushing on the populace again.[/quote]

We can debate how *republican* the last 4 years have been but most on this forum and elsewhere miss the never trumpers point. WE DONT FAVOR LEFT WING POLICIES. We do favor competence, a serious dignified person. I made comments about eating crow on here a while back and boy do I need some. I ragged incessantly on Obama and watching him now ripping the worst most corrupt addled president in history mercilessly I see how funny he is, how under control even when delivering scathing barbs. Biden himself looks and acts completely presidential in comparison to Trump.

Never trump republicans would be voting for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren had they won the nomination.Conservatives should be relieved its Biden Harris, its the best you were gonna get committing political suicide following crazy orange man off the cliff. Never Trumpers will put a democratic pilot behind the controls of the plane all 327 million of us are on with no parachutes rather than a loony proven failure leader of the Trump cult, especially with half the engines gone and part of a wing.

This is about survival.All the fear mongering about radical leftists , in hindsight I had a decent safe life under Obama. Under Clinton. I dont remember year long protests in my lifetime. I dont remember a shutdown oppressive virus ruining life for everyone before Trump. I dont recall armed militias prowling the streets and running busses of the highway.

Frankly the moment I was aware Russia had sought to install trump I wished Hillary had won. In hindsight she could not have done any more poorly as a president than this guy who most every reputable historian has called the worst in history.

Its not about Ideology. the conservative right has earned this loss should it occur because they have propped up and supported an unfit unhinged candidate. And its not gonna get better for this party as this country becomes more and more diverse and progressive unless the trump party is gone and a larger tent more inclusive republican party rises that doesn't throw red meat to the base and embrace corruption and chaos in their candidate.

[RiverDog]

I dont remember year long protests in my lifetime. I dont remember a shutdown oppressive virus ruining life for everyone before Trump. I dont recall armed militias prowling the streets and running busses of the highway.

I'm not sure it's worse, but I've lived through some pretty rough times. In the late 60's when I was in junior high, we were treated to political assassinations, race riots, years of almost daily protests turned violent, a counter culture movement, and the Vietnam War. If you were black and living in Mississippi or Alabama would have subjected you to cross burnings and lynchings. Even here in the Tri Cities during the late 60's, if you were black, you had to be back across the river by 9pm. If you were a migrant worker, you'd be living like sardines in rat and cockroach infested labor camps.

I can't say that I was very fond of the mid to late 70's, either, with double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, sky high unemployment, and gas lines with odd/even rationing. I worried that my college degree would be worthless and I'd end up scooping grain for the rest of my life. Then in 1980, Mt. St. Helens blew its top, burying me and my newly purchased house in 4" of ash, and for a few days, I was afraid that my job would be gone and I'd be out picking chit with the chickens.

We need to keep things in perspective.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not sure it's worse, but I've lived through some pretty rough times. In the late 60's when I was in junior high, we were treated to political assassinations, race riots, years of almost daily protests turned violent, a counter culture movement, and the Vietnam War. If you were black and living in Mississippi or Alabama would have subjected you to cross burnings and lynchings. Even here in the Tri Cities during the late 60's, if you were black, you had to be back across the river by 9pm. If you were a migrant worker, you'd be living like sardines in rat and cockroach infested labor camps.

I can't say that I was very fond of the mid to late 70's, either, with double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, sky high unemployment, and gas lines with odd/even rationing. I worried that my college degree would be worthless and I'd end up scooping grain for the rest of my life. Then in 1980, Mt. St. Helens blew its top, burying me and my newly purchased house in 4" of ash, and for a few days, I was afraid that my job would be gone and I'd be out picking chit with the chickens.

We need to keep things in perspective.

We literally have documented evidence the 60s was far, far worse, but people are almost always biased towards the current time. Just more examples of people not reading history books or recalling history very well.

The worst part about right now is the global pandemic. I'm surprised there haven't been more mass shootings given the stress and pressure the world is under. The lockdowns and economic situation is terrible.

[RiverDog]

We literally have documented evidence the 60s was far, far worse, but people are almost always biased towards the current time. Just more examples of people not reading history books or recalling history very well.

I don't need a history book to tell me about the 60's, at least the late 60's when conditions were the worst. I was fully aware of what was going on in the country.

The worst part about right now is the global pandemic. I'm surprised there haven't been more mass shootings given the stress and pressure the world is under. The lockdowns and economic situation is terrible.

People have had time to get used to it, and now that the winter weather is approaching, you'll see fewer organized protests. We'll see what happens after election day, but my gut tells me that even though a lot of places are preparing for the worst, there won't be that many violent protests.

[Aseahawkfan]

Can you imagine what the 60s or the Civil War would have been like with the modern global media in existence? Oh man, would have made the modern day look like sweet dream. Even with things tumultuous in America, I guarantee there was crazy crap going on worldwide Americans barely saw due to the limitations on global media during the 60s and earlier periods when Russia was expanding the Soviet Union and various other conflicts world wide.

[RiverDog]

Can you imagine what the 60s or the Civil War would have been like with the modern global media in existence? Oh man, would have made the modern day look like sweet dream. Even with things tumultuous in America, I guarantee there was crazy crap going on worldwide Americans barely saw due to the limitations on global media during the 60s and earlier periods when Russia was expanding the Soviet Union and various other conflicts world wide.

Yup. 24/7 news sure changed things. There were tons of stories that couldn't make the cut to get on a 30 minute evening newscast and got overlooked. The information age has its advantages and disadvantages, and one of the disadvantages is that there is so much competition that there is a tendency to over hype stories in order to make them more watchable.

Back to topic. I read an interesting article about this year's exit polling being affected by the pandemic:

Some exit polling procedures have been modified this year to help ensure a safe experience for the interviewers and voters. Typically, the exit poll interviewer walks right up to the selected voter and hands them the exit poll questionnaire and a pen. This approach has been modified.

This year, the interviewer, who will be wearing a mask at all times, will approach the voter from a distance of at least 6 feet. Voters who agree to fill out the exit poll will be directed to a nearby table to get the questionnaire and a single use golf pencil.

While ABC assures us that “these procedures were tested successfully during the recent primaries,” you do have to wonder if they will affect interview participation patterns in a general election where groups of voters across the country may react differently to the risks involved.

Not only that, but due to the patterns already identified that Biden voters are more likely to vote by mail/drop off and Trump voters more likely to vote in person on election day, but no one knows in what percentage, how in the heck can they determine who's winning by exit interviews?

I've also heard that in PA, they'll be counting the ballots cast on election day first and that they might not start counting the mail/drop off ballots until as late as 11:00pm ET, so given the unknown trend of early vs. election day balloting, how accurate are the early results going to be?

[Aseahawkfan]

I just hope if Trump wins it doesn't become an Escape From Seattle type of scenario.

[RiverDog]

I just hope if Trump wins it doesn't become an Escape From Seattle type of scenario.

Hehe. Yeah, mine the floating bridges and sink the ferries.

I have nothing to base my opinion on but gut feel, but I think these worries about post election violence are way overblown.

[Aseahawkfan]

Once again Florida is super tight. Damn.

[c_hawkbob]

FWIW my local news is calling Kentucky for Trump, Vermont for Biden.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yahoo needs to update their info. Listing Biden as having won Virginia while listing Trump head by like 20%.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump is looking soundly up in Florida. It's looking like it will be tight again like I said.

[RiverDog]

Looks like Florida is going to fall to Trump. North Carolina is tilting his way, too.

[Aseahawkfan]

Gonna come down to the usual states. No looking like a landslide either way right now.

[RiverDog]

Gonna come down to the usual states. No looking like a landslide either way right now.

I think you're right. There's still 5-6 states that Trump must win in order to stretch it out until PA gets done counting their votes...GA, AZ, OH, TX, IA..all states he won in 2016, but if those fall his way....

[Aseahawkfan]

I think you're right. There's still 5-6 states that Trump must win in order to stretch it out until PA gets done counting their votes...GA, AZ, OH, TX, IA..all states he won in 2016, but if those fall his way....

Vegas just flipped to a Trump win.

What people like hawktawk, c-bob, and I5 don't accept is that the Democrats are offering a terrible vision of America. Endless race-baiting, no end to the victim mentality, endless taxes, no resistance to looting and vandalism, drug addicts freely wandering cities with so called free shoot up zones, constant hand outs, and just an outright surrender to the far left. It's being made clear that an equal number of Americans do not want this even more than they fear this sorry virus.

I knew this would be tight again. Just as I knew Trump would win if not for this virus easily. The Democratic vision of America is garbage. Stinks to high heaven. It's state of servitude to the government. Who wants that.

But even worse will be if the Senate flips and the House remains Democrats. Then we have at least 2 years of total government warfare between The Congress and The Executive.

[RiverDog]

I think you're right. There's still 5-6 states that Trump must win in order to stretch it out until PA gets done counting their votes...GA, AZ, OH, TX, IA..all states he won in 2016, but if those fall his way....

Vegas just flipped to a Trump win.

What people like hawktawk, c-bob, and I5 don't accept is that the Democrats are offering a terrible vision of America. Endless race-baiting, no end to the victim mentality, endless taxes, no resistance to looting and vandalism, drug addicts freely wandering cities with so called free shoot up zones, constant hand outs, and just an outright surrender to the far left. It's being made clear that an equal number of Americans do not want this even more than they fear this sorry virus.

I knew this would be tight again. Just as I knew Trump would win if not for this virus easily. The Democratic vision of America is garbage. Stinks to high heaven. It's state of servitude to the government. Who wants that.

But even worse will be if the Senate flips and the House remains Democrats. Then we have at least 2 years of total government warfare between The Congress and The Executive.

I'm going to be very disappointed if Trump wins, but I won't be jumping out any windows. Trump will be insufferable in a lame duck second term, but I'll live. The good thing will be that we'll stave off the move to socialism for another 4 years.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm going to be very disappointed if Trump wins, but I won't be jumping out any windows. Trump will be insufferable in a lame duck second term, but I'll live. The good thing will be that we'll stave off the move to socialism for another 4 years.

All I know is like I told you, Trump has strange support that isn't easy to track on polls. I would have taken those 1000 dollar bets each absent this virus without a second thought.

When you have one group of people that are voting for Trump because they believe in him and another group voting against him for a candidate they barley like, not a great recipe for success.

This isn't over yet. So we shall see.

[RiverDog]

All I know is like I told you, Trump has strange support that isn't easy to track on polls. I would have taken those 1000 dollar bets each absent this virus without a second thought.

When you have one group of people that are voting for Trump because they believe in him and another group voting against him for a candidate they barley like, not a great recipe for success.

Youi might be right, but the night is still young. There's a lot of things that have to go right in order for Trump to pull off another upset.

[RiverDog]

Arizona is coming in big for Biden, so that could be the difference if Biden wins in MI and WI as he is expected to.

[Aseahawkfan]

Arizona is coming in big for Biden, so that could be the difference if Biden wins in MI and WI as he is expected to.

Not over yet. Going to be bumpy ride.

I have to admit as much as I don't like either candidate, it is fun to watch a race that has been this hyped up.

[RiverDog]

Wisconsin is going to be a lot closer than anticipated. I personally think that when they count the early vote that Biden will prevail, but I've been wrong so much tonight I wouldn't want to bet my chewing gum on my predictions.

[Aseahawkfan]

Wisconsin is going to be a lot closer than anticipated. I personally think that when they count the early vote that Biden will prevail, but I've been wrong so much tonight I wouldn't want to bet my chewing gum on my predictions.

I told you how this was going to be, but you never believe me. I don't like either candidate. It was easy to see no one changed their votes or opinions. Both parties have poisonous weaknesses and platforms.

You can't tell me looking at what the Democrats allowed with the protests, looting, tearing down statues, cries of everyone white in America is racist, defunding the police, tax and spend economics, Armageddon climate politics, and the like sounded good to you.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump won more of the people of African ancestry vote than they thought. Even folk of African ancestry are tired of being sold on the endless racism being the only thing the Democrats and liberals are selling. At what point does a person of African descent go, "But I'm my own man. I don't want to keep voting for a party that keeps telling me I'm a victim and all they're offering is being less racist."

The Democrat platform is as poisonous as Trump.

[RiverDog]

Wisconsin is going to be a lot closer than anticipated. I personally think that when they count the early vote that Biden will prevail, but I've been wrong so much tonight I wouldn't want to bet my chewing gum on my predictions.

Itold you how this was going to be, but you never believe me. I don't like either candidate. It was easy to see no one changed their votes or opinions. Both parties has poisonous weaknesses and platforms.

You can't tell me looking at what the Democrats allowed with the protests, looting, tearing down statues, cries of everyone white in America is racist, defunding the police, tax and spend economics, Armageddon climate politics, and the like sounded good to you.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump won more of the people of African ancestry vote than they thought. Even folk of African ancestry are tired of being sold on the endless racism being the only thing the Democrats and liberals are selling. At what point does a person of African descent go, "But I'm my own man. I don't want to keep voting for a party that keeps telling me I'm a victim and all they're offering is being less racist."

The Democrat platform is as poisonous as Trump.

I didn't say that I didn't believe you. I just had a different opinion. I did see a late shift in the polls to Trump but I thought that it wasn't relevant as so much of the votes had already been cast. I had assumed that they'd count the early vote first, but apparently most states are counting the in person votes so things could change quite a bit by tomorrow morning.

And yes, I agree about the Democratic platform being poisonous. Biden's wishy washy stance on fracking could cost him Pennsylvania and with it the election. He screwed the pooch in Miami-Dade in Florida by allowing Trump to paint him as a socialist. And I feel that his refusal to reject the court packing plan influenced a lot of voters. Biden's performance in the last month of the campaign has been horrible.

But even with all that, he could still eek out a win. We likely won't know for several days.

If Trump wins, I'll tip my hat to you. I've already been proven wrong in that I was predicting a Biden landslide that isn't going to happen.

If Trump wins, we'll see the reincarnation of Idahawkman.

[Aseahawkfan]

I didn't say that I didn't believe you. I just had a different opinion. I did see a late shift in the polls to Trump but I thought that it wasn't relevant as so much of the votes had already been cast. I had assumed that they'd count the early vote first, but apparently most states are counting the in person votes so things could change quite a bit by tomorrow morning.

And yes, I agree about the Democratic platform being poisonous. Biden's wishy washy stance on fracking could cost him Pennsylvania and with it the election. He screwed the pooch in Miami-Dade in Florida by allowing Trump to paint him as a socialist. And I feel that his refusal to reject the court packing plan influenced a lot of voters. Biden's performance in the last month of the campaign has been horrible.

But even with all that, he could still eek out a win. We likely won't know for several days.

If Trump wins, I'll tip my hat to you. I've already been proven wrong in that I was predicting a Biden landslide that isn't going to happen.

If Trump wins, we'll see the reincarnation of Idahawkman.

Likely, at least some gloating.

But really as much as these guys talk, not much will change under Trump. As long as this pandemic gets over, life will still be good. Trump is very likely to sign a bunch of Democrat legislation into law as he already wanted to do it. He would have signed Pelosi's 2.2 trillion dollar package. He doesn't care. He's a populist, not a fiscal conservative. He'll gladly run up the debt to flood the economy with cash. He doesn't care.

[RiverDog]

Trump just put out a tweet saying that the Democrats are stealing the election. Why would he say something like that if he and his team thought that they were winning?

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump just put out a tweet saying that the Democrats are stealing the election. Why would he say something like that if he and his team thought that they were winning?

Philly and Detroit seem like the last hope. We'll see if the Dems can pull it off. Regardless it won't be a landslide for the reasons I stated. Two candidates that aren't very good. One with a poisonous platform, the other with a poisonous personality.

[RiverDog]

Trump just put out a tweet saying that the Democrats are stealing the election. Why would he say something like that if he and his team thought that they were winning?

Philly and Detroit seem like the last hope. We'll see if the Dems can pull it off. Regardless it won't be a landslide for the reasons I stated. Two candidates that aren't very good. One with a poisonous platform, the other with a poisonous personality.

Not quite. They're also talking that Georgia could flip, which would take either PA or MI off the table. Lots of early ballots in Dem counties that have yet to be counted.

And keep in mind that even Trump wins GA, if Biden wins AZ and WI, Biden would need either PA or MI, not both.

[Aseahawkfan]

Not quite. They're also talking that Georgia could flip, which would take either PA or MI off the table. Lots of early ballots in Dem counties that have yet to be counted.

And keep in mind that even Trump wins GA, if Biden wins AZ and WI, Biden would need either PA or MI, not both.

Georgia is not going to flip. So I would get that out of your head.

North Carolina is close enough for a chance.

It's down to Philly and Detroit. You mark my words right now. That is the race. Biden needs Philly, Detroit, and North Carolina.

Wisconsin and Georgia going Trump.

What's funny is that Gretchen Whitmer, the Democratic Darling that stood up to Trump, may be the reason the Democrats lose Michigan. I heard people there despise her.

[RiverDog]

Not quite. They're also talking that Georgia could flip, which would take either PA or MI off the table. Lots of early ballots in Dem counties that have yet to be counted.

And keep in mind that even Trump wins GA, if Biden wins AZ and WI, Biden would need either PA or MI, not both.

Georgia is not going to flip. So I would get that out of your head.

North Carolina is close enough for a chance.

It's down to Philly and Detroit. You mark my words right now. That is the race. Biden needs Philly, Detroit, and North Carolina.

Wisconsin and Georgia going Trump.

What's funny is that Gretchen Whitmer, the Democratic Darling that stood up to Trump, may be the reason the Democrats lose Michigan. I heard people there despise her.

As of 2:00 am, GA and NC look like they'll fall to Trump, but Biden has a decent lead in AZ. In WI, Biden just took a very slight lead of .3%. If Biden wins AZ as it appears that he will, and if he wins WI where he has a razor thin lead, he can win the election with either MI or PA.

There's still only 75% of the vote counted in PA and MI so the numbers there are still pretty meaningless. All the others have counted 90+%.

[Aseahawkfan]

We will probably know by tomorrow. We shall see.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, it's weird. In WI, Milwaukee is already 100% counted so you wouldn't think that such a slim .3% Biden lead would hold. The analysts are looking at heavily red counties in WI with votes left to be counted. Trump is doing up to 20% better than he did in 2016 but that could mean that his votes are already counted and what remains uncounted are the mail in Biden votes. Because of this, CNN is saying Biden's lead there will stand.

Trump is leading in PA by 700,000 votes so it's hard to see Biden being able to make that up. But in MI, Trump has just a 1.3% lead, or 64,000 votes with 83% of the vote counted with much of what remains being heavily Democratic counties. If Biden wins MI and holds on to WI, AZ, and NV, that would do it, but just barely, 270 to 268.