COVID19 Vaccine Information

[NorthHawk]

The Flu vaccine changes every year and if this covid virus is still changing then they would probably change the shots along with
the mutations to keep it effective. Just like the Flu vaccine.
If however the vast majority of people get vaccinated, there’s a chance it can become almost irrelevant. It would still be
around but not be able to find hosts to replicate and spread.

[Aseahawkfan]

I disagree. We do not necessarily need to completely eradicate COVID. What the vaccine does is take the pressure off our health care system. The mortality rate of COVID isn't that bad so long as it's not spreading uncontrollably like it is now. The other factor here is treatment. As we learn more about the disease, there's the very strong likelihood of our developing more effective treatments.

Disagreeing with the science of how vaccination works is irrelevant.

If this vaccine is 90 to 95% effective against the most deadly strain, it will eradicate that strain. Given they have not reported mutations as of yet, this should be a short-term vaccine that eradicates the deadliest strain of the coronavirus. This is not not a flu virus. This is per current reports a stable coronavirus with a particularly deadly strain that we are attempting to eradicate that these vaccines are 90% plus effective against. This should eradicate this virus and be a short-term vaccine.

I once again reiterate that if this vaccine fails meaning no reduction in numbers and there are other mutations that are equally deadly, we are at ground zero. That is a real problem.

I have no idea why you are looking at this like the flu, when it isn't the flu. This particular strain is not meant to continue. The entire reason they were able to create a vaccine so quickly is because it is not mutating like the flu virus does. It is supposedly stable. That is why these vaccines have such a high rate of efficacy versus the flu shot which is in the 40% range which I posted at the top of the thread.

[Aseahawkfan]

The Flu vaccine changes every year and if this covid virus is still changing then they would probably change the shots along with
the mutations to keep it effective. Just like the Flu vaccine.
If however the vast majority of people get vaccinated, there’s a chance it can become almost irrelevant. It would still be
around but not be able to find hosts to replicate and spread.

Not how this virus is reportedly working. I have no idea why you and RD are jumping the gun on it.

I listed the above resources showing why the effectiveness of the flu shot is so low compared to the coronavirus vaccine. It is due to how the flu virus mutates.

Do you have reports that this virus will stick around and mutate? If so, please provide the links as I have not read this information. The information I have read is this particular strain of COVID19 has proven to be stable and that is why such effective vaccines have been possible.

But we shall see once this thing goes live. They will be continually collecting info to determine whether we can eradicate it or we'll be back to the drawing board. I am hoping for eradication given almost anything in the 90% effectiveness range usually leads to eradication.

[RiverDog]

I have no idea why you are looking at this like the flu, when it isn't the flu. This particular strain is not meant to continue. The entire reason they were able to create a vaccine so quickly is because it is not mutating like the flu virus does. It is supposedly stable. That is why these vaccines have such a high rate of efficacy versus the flu shot which is in the 40% range which I posted at the top of the thread.

It is possible that COVID could become seasonal like the flu:

An expert in infectious diseases recently said he expects the coronavirus to become a seasonal virus — even though a COVID-19 vaccine is on the way.

In September, a new study argued that COVID-19 would likely become seasonal similar to influenza — but only after there is a vaccine and the society becomes immune to it.

“In temperate regions, this would mean reduced infections in the summer and peaks in the winter. However, this seasonality is only likely to occur once a vaccine is developed and greater herd immunity is achieved,” according to Medical News Today.

https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/ ... nal-future

There are various studies out there regarding how COVID is likely to mature that are often times contradictory. My point is that we don't know how it will mature, so I stand by my statement: We do not necessarily have to eradicate it.

[NorthHawk]

It's also well known that there are variants of this virus already in the wild.
The report of the Ravens said they had at least 4 variants of Covid-19 in their last bout with it and we know that the version that came from Europe was different from the one from China.
The vaccine at this point covers the mutations, but who's to say it always will? That's in part why it may be included in the annual flu shots. The other reason is it's not known if the protection
will last for a lifetime or for a relatively short time like a year or 2.

[Aseahawkfan]

It is possible that COVID could become seasonal like the flu:

An expert in infectious diseases recently said he expects the coronavirus to become a seasonal virus — even though a COVID-19 vaccine is on the way.

In September, a new study argued that COVID-19 would likely become seasonal similar to influenza — but only after there is a vaccine and the society becomes immune to it.

“In temperate regions, this would mean reduced infections in the summer and peaks in the winter. However, this seasonality is only likely to occur once a vaccine is developed and greater herd immunity is achieved,” according to Medical News Today.

https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/ ... nal-future

There are various studies out there regarding how COVID is likely to mature that are often times contradictory. My point is that we don't know how it will mature, so I stand by my statement: We do not necessarily have to eradicate it.

This is what I'm talking about when it comes to claims of "science."

I posted information in the first post so that you wouldn't have to entirely rely on news stories that are all over the place. This news story is painting a picture that doesn't fit the data.

Instead of reading some alarmist news story think about the science you have been given:

1. The flu vaccine is 44% effective due to how it mutates on a yearly basis. This is why you take a flu shot every year because it is impossible to eradicate the flu due to how it mutates.

2. This vaccine is over twice as effective as the flu virus reaching up to 95% effectiveness. 90% plus effective vaccines usually lead to eradication.

3. Have you ever had a coronavirus vaccine on a yearly basis until now? This is not some virus that is expected to stick around if this vaccine works.

4. Both the previous SARS and MERS were eradicated due to being unable to spread.

5. This vaccine is as effective as it is due to the stability of COVID19. If this vaccine were mutating heavily like the flu virus, a 90% plus vaccine would not be possible to produce just as it is not possible to produce for the flu.


Now we're going to be receiving a lot of information in the coming months and years in regards to this vaccine. Given the information we have available, these vaccines should eradicate this virus. I do not expect to be taking this vaccine on a yearly basis. If the immune response is as powerful as stated and this virus as stable as it is allowing a 90% plus effective vaccine, eradication should be the end result. If it is not eradicated, then the information on the effectiveness of this vaccine is false.

This is an experimental vaccine. So it is not surprising they do not have information on the length of immunity or if it stops asymptomatic spread. But in theory it should stop asymptomatic spread if it is 90% plus effective at boosting the immune system to eradicate the virus because that is how viruses work according to known science.

I get why they are being careful with claims. Science is ultimately a process with few absolutes. They won't know for sure how this will all work until the vaccine is released into the wild. Given currently available information about effectiveness rates, I expect eradication. Coronaviruses are extremely common and cause things like the common cold or other mild respiratory infections. This isn't a vaccine to stop all coronaviruses. It is a vaccine to stop a particularly deadly strain. If this strain isn't eradicated and it mutates on a yearly basis, we will be living in an extremely dark world that will be killing the old and vulnerable for a very long time coupled with the flu every year. That would be terrible.

Fortunately, that is not what the current data is telling us. I expect eradication within a few years depending on how long it takes to get everyone inoculated coupled with natural immunity. But we shall see. You are certainly jumping the gun on a yearly vaccination though. Doesn't really fit the information we've been given about effectiveness and how viruses work.

[RiverDog]

Fortunately, that is not what the current data is telling us. I expect eradication within a few years depending on how long it takes to get everyone inoculated. But we shall see. You are certainly jumping the gun on a yearly vaccination though. Doesn't really fit the information we've been given about effectiveness and how viruses work.

I am not saying that we will have yearly COVID vaccinations. I am saying that it is possible.

We're in basic agreement on the virus and the vaccines. Where we differ is your statement that if we don't completely eradicate the virus, we're screwed. That may or may not be true. We simply don't know enough about it yet.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's also well known that there are variants of this virus already in the wild.
The report of the Ravens said they had at least 4 variants of Covid-19 in their last bout with it and we know that the version that came from Europe was different from the one from China.
The vaccine at this point covers the mutations, but who's to say it always will? That's in part why it may be included in the annual flu shots. The other reason is it's not known if the protection
will last for a lifetime or for a relatively short time like a year or 2.

There are a lot of unknowns. I posted the data in the first post showing comparable vaccines. I don't know why so many are having trouble analyzing it.

A flu vaccine on a yearly basis is 44% effective due to how quickly it mutates. That is why we can't eradicate the flu.

The coronavirus vaccine is 90% plus effective according to available data to the stability of the most deadly strain of this virus. 90% plus effective vaccines generally lead to eradication or reduction to negligible levels such as the polio vaccine and the measles vaccine. Are you and Riverdog claiming the companies that produced the coronavirus vaccine are lying? Is that your assumption? That this vaccine is only as effective as a flu vaccine which is closer to 44%, not 90%? That seems to be what your implying that we starting out of the gate with false information. That will be extremely bad for the world if right out of the gate this vaccine is going to fail to do what vaccines do: stop viruses.

I certainly hope you two are very wrong in your assumptions. I would hate for these vaccines to start off proving false levels of effectiveness right out of the gate where we have to revise them to around 40% effective and take them yearly like the flu vaccine. If that is the case, we'll end up where I assumed we might end up which is just having to accept a whole lot of death with no one really safe from the virus.

[Aseahawkfan]

I am not saying that we will have yearly COVID vaccinations. I am saying that it is possible.

We're in basic agreement on the virus and the vaccines. Where we differ is your statement that if we don't completely eradicate the virus, we're screwed. That may or may not be true. We simply don't know enough about it yet.

We agree on that. No matter how we try to spin it, this is a huge science experiment about to go live. It's going to be interesting.

Hopefully we can all agree that we will hope for eradication. This thing showing up on a yearly basis sounds like a nightmare.

Can you imagine locking down and masking up on a yearly basis? I don't see Americans tolerating it. They'll straight up rebel at some point. So many businesses and livelihoods have been destroyed at this point, no way Americans will stand for it every year if this doesn't work.

[RiverDog]

Hopefully we can all agree that we will hope for eradication. This thing showing up on a yearly basis sounds like a nightmare.

Hopefully? Why wouldn't anyone not want to hope for eradication?

Can you imagine locking down and masking up on a yearly basis? I don't see Americans tolerating it. They'll straight up rebel at some point. So many businesses and livelihoods have been destroyed at this point, no way Americans will stand for it every year if this doesn't work.

I can't imagine it. We're already beyond the breaking point, with the virus completely out of control, 3K Americans dying daily, and half the public clamoring to open everything back up.

[RiverDog]

I saw a survey this morning that claims over 80% of Americans are willing to get the vaccine:

More than eight in 10 Americans say they would receive the vaccine, with 40% saying they would take it as soon as it's available to them and 44% saying they would wait a bit before getting it.

Only 15% said they would refuse the vaccine entirely in the new survey

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/america ... e_hero_hed

I hope that's accurate. Previous surveys were showing less than 60% would be willing to get it. Apparently the deliberate analysis the FDA took before authorizing it has paid off. And to give credit where credit is due, Trump's being squarely behind it has undoubtedly helped public acceptance.

Later this week, Moderna's vaccine will undergo the same process that Pfizer's went through. Theirs is a lot more viable as it doesn't require sub Arctic storage temperatures.

[Aseahawkfan]

I saw a survey this morning that claims over 80% of Americans are willing to get the vaccine:

More than eight in 10 Americans say they would receive the vaccine, with 40% saying they would take it as soon as it's available to them and 44% saying they would wait a bit before getting it.

Only 15% said they would refuse the vaccine entirely in the new survey

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/america ... e_hero_hed

I hope that's accurate. Previous surveys were showing less than 60% would be willing to get it. Apparently the deliberate analysis the FDA took before authorizing it has paid off. And to give credit where credit is due, Trump's being squarely behind it has undoubtedly helped public acceptance.

Later this week, Moderna's vaccine will undergo the same process that Pfizer's went through. Theirs is a lot more viable as it doesn't require sub Arctic storage temperatures.

I think 80% will go even higher if it works and the numbers start dropping. The main thing we have to hope for is no serious issues upon release. We need this to go smoothly and numbers to drop.

[RiverDog]

I saw a survey this morning that claims over 80% of Americans are willing to get the vaccine:

More than eight in 10 Americans say they would receive the vaccine, with 40% saying they would take it as soon as it's available to them and 44% saying they would wait a bit before getting it.

Only 15% said they would refuse the vaccine entirely in the new survey

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/america ... e_hero_hed

I hope that's accurate. Previous surveys were showing less than 60% would be willing to get it. Apparently the deliberate analysis the FDA took before authorizing it has paid off. And to give credit where credit is due, Trump's being squarely behind it has undoubtedly helped public acceptance.

Later this week, Moderna's vaccine will undergo the same process that Pfizer's went through. Theirs is a lot more viable as it doesn't require sub Arctic storage temperatures.

I think 80% will go even higher if it works and the numbers start dropping. The main thing we have to hope for is no serious issues upon release. We need this to go smoothly and numbers to drop.

There's going to be issues. When you vaccinate hundreds of millions of people, just random chance will cause someone to have a severe reaction unrelated to the vaccine that strikes shortly after taking it. Hopefully people are smart enough to realize that fact. I know people that swear the flu vaccine has actually caused them to catch the flu even though it's been proven to be impossible.

We still need people to get behind it, especially respected blacks as surveys show that they have the most reluctance even though they are more at risk. Have people like LeBron James, Oprah Winfrey, Michelle Obama, Michael Jordan, and others take it in the same manner our former POTUS's are doing.

I'm hoping to get my vaccine by no later than mid March.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOmtZ_p6alU

More good information on the vaccine from my favorite source: Medcram.

[RiverDog]

The FDA's initial review of the data related to the Moderna vaccine confirms earlier reports:

The review by the F.D.A. confirms Moderna’s earlier assessment that its vaccine had an efficacy rate of 94.1 percent in a trial of 30,000 people. Side effects, including fever, headache and fatigue, were unpleasant but not dangerous, the agency found.

The data release is the first step of a public review process that will include a daylong meeting on Thursday by an independent advisory panel of experts. They will hear from Moderna, F.D.A. scientists and the public before voting on whether to recommend authorization. The panel is expected to vote yes, and the F.D.A. generally follows the experts’ recommendations.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... d=msedgntp

I heard a person explain that the side effects, ie headaches, fever, fatigue, etc, were actually a good sign as it was a result of a "waking up" of the body's immune system, that it was responding to the vaccine as it was intended to.

I share your optimism with both the vaccines themselves and with the public's increasing acceptance of them. 2021 is going to be a great year!

[Aseahawkfan]

The FDA's initial review of the data related to the Moderna vaccine confirms earlier reports:

The review by the F.D.A. confirms Moderna’s earlier assessment that its vaccine had an efficacy rate of 94.1 percent in a trial of 30,000 people. Side effects, including fever, headache and fatigue, were unpleasant but not dangerous, the agency found.

The data release is the first step of a public review process that will include a daylong meeting on Thursday by an independent advisory panel of experts. They will hear from Moderna, F.D.A. scientists and the public before voting on whether to recommend authorization. The panel is expected to vote yes, and the F.D.A. generally follows the experts’ recommendations.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... d=msedgntp

I heard a person explain that the side effects, ie headaches, fever, fatigue, etc, were actually a good sign as it was a result of a "waking up" of the body's immune system, that it was responding to the vaccine as it was intended to.

I share your optimism with both the vaccines themselves and with the public's increasing acceptance of them. 2021 is going to be a great year!

That's what Dr. Seheult explains that the side effects are symptoms of activating your immune response. People should expect it and remain calm.

[RiverDog]

Dr. Fauci has been busy this morning. He's given a more optimistic timeline of the vaccine distribution, urged both Trump and Biden to take the vaccine immediately, and has commented on what he expects the duration of the vaccine to be, ie he expects it to last at least a year.

It appears that they are a bit worried about security surrounding the vaccine distribution. Here locally, they have not confirmed the storage locations for vaccines that are expected to start arriving tomorrow although it would make sense to deliver them to local hospitals as they have medical grade freezers capable of -100 F and their staffs will be some of the first to receive it. Walgreen's and CVS will be tasked with distributing vaccines to nursing homes, although it's not clear if their people will be administering the injections or if nursing home staffs will do the jabbing.

What's still not clear to me is once they get into the next phase of vaccinations, how will they determine who is at risk and eligible to be vaccinated ahead of others? Are you going to need a prescription from your doctor? Some sort of documentation of a medical condition? Or will they simply take your word for it? There's sure to be long lines waiting to get vaccinated and it would seem to slow things down a lot if they are having to spend a lot of time verifying your status.

[RiverDog]

An Alaska woman had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine 10 minutes after receiving it. The scary part is that she had no previously known allergies:

Health officials in Alaska reported a health care worker had a severe allergic reaction to a COVID-19 vaccine within 10 minutes of receiving a shot.

The Juneau health worker began feeling flushed and short of breath on Tuesday, says Dr. Lindy Jones, the emergency room medical director at Bartlett Regional Hospital. She was treated with epinephrine and other medicines for what officials ultimately determined was anaphylaxis, a severe allergic reaction. She was kept overnight but has recovered.

Unlike the British cases, the Alaska woman has no history of allergic reactions.

https://keprtv.com/news/coronavirus/ala ... l802CFArT0

I hope that this doesn't become a trend.

[Aseahawkfan]

I disagree. We do not necessarily need to completely eradicate COVID. What the vaccine does is take the pressure off our health care system. The mortality rate of COVID isn't that bad so long as it's not spreading uncontrollably like it is now. The other factor here is treatment. As we learn more about the disease, there's the very strong likelihood of our developing more effective treatments.

I guess we have a fundamentally different understanding on the science of a 95% effective vaccine. COVID19 should be eradicated by a 95% effective virus. If it is not, then it likely did not work at 95% effectiveness. That is bad news in my opinion.

[RiverDog]

I disagree. We do not necessarily need to completely eradicate COVID. What the vaccine does is take the pressure off our health care system. The mortality rate of COVID isn't that bad so long as it's not spreading uncontrollably like it is now. The other factor here is treatment. As we learn more about the disease, there's the very strong likelihood of our developing more effective treatments.

I guess we have a fundamentally different understanding on the science of a 95% effective vaccine. COVID19 should be eradicated by a 95% effective virus. If it is not, then it likely did not work at 95% effectiveness. That is bad news in my opinion.

You're missing my point. My point is that an effective vaccine is not the only way to defeating this disease. Treatment and prevention are other means that can be utilized. Case in point is the AIDS epidemic. It's a virus, too (actually HIV), but we've developed effective treatments to where it is no longer the death sentence it once was.

[Aseahawkfan]

You're missing my point. My point is that an effective vaccine is not the only way to defeating this disease. Treatment and prevention are other means that can be utilized. Case in point is the AIDS epidemic. It's a virus, too (actually HIV), but we've developed effective treatments to where it is no longer the death sentence it once was.

I understand that part. This is a very different virus than AIDS in terms of infectiousness and transmission. I hope the virus is eradicated within a few years. This lockdown life sucks.

I'm tired to death of hearing looney people telling me now that the government has proven they can control the public with threat of a virus, they're going to do it again and again. Doesn't matter they haven't done this before, it just matters that now it happened. They think Democratic politicians are going to use the lockdown whenever they feel like it. If this thing lingers, it will just leave that opening for the government to do every time it flares it up. I don't really want to deal with that. Small businesses might as well not even bother if the government can destroy them with no help any time they feel like it.

[RiverDog]

I just got a text from my daughter. She's signed up to get her vaccine next Monday.

[Aseahawkfan]

I just got a text from my daughter. She's signed up to get her vaccine next Monday.

Nice. Now we will get first hand information on how it goes. Super helpful.

[RiverDog]

I just got a text from my daughter. She's signed up to get her vaccine next Monday.

Nice. Now we will get first hand information on how it goes. Super helpful.

I'll let you know. She could have gotten it tomorrow but she has to work. She did say that some of her co workers are hesitant, feel it was rushed and want to wait. Good to know that it's moving that fast.

There's been some strange things going on today. First of all, apparently there's been an overfilling of vials that has resulted in an increase in the amount of doses that can be derived from them. Each vial normally contains 5 doses and they've been getting 6 or 7 doses. The FDA issued a statement saying that it was permissible for providers to make use out of the extra vaccine.

Then just in the past hour, there's been a shipping SNAFU that has resulted in some states, including Washington and Oregon, being notified that they'll receive 40% fewer vaccines than they were expecting. However, there's no gap in the supply chain and will simply be made up on subsequent shipments.

And the Moderna vaccine was overwhelmingly approved by the advisory committee, by a vote of 20-0-1 (one abstention). Shipment of that vaccine, which is a lot more viable than the Pfizer vaccine, begins next week...assuming the FDA approves it.

[RiverDog]

I guess I'm the first one in our small group with a family member having received the vaccine. My daughter, a charge nurse at an urgent care clinic in Spokane, just posted a picture of herself showing a band aid on her upper arm. No side effects so far.

[mykc14]

I guess I'm the first one in our small group with a family member having received the vaccine. My daughter, a charge nurse at an urgent care clinic in Spokane, just posted a picture of herself showing a band aid on her upper arm. No side effects so far.

That is pretty cool!

[Aseahawkfan]

I guess I'm the first one in our small group with a family member having received the vaccine. My daughter, a charge nurse at an urgent care clinic in Spokane, just posted a picture of herself showing a band aid on her upper arm. No side effects so far.

Nice.

[RiverDog]

The government is missing their December vaccination target big time. Even taking into account a reporting lag, they're not going to hit 20% of it. I've heard excuses ranging from snow storms to unsigned contracts with providers. Trump is saying it's the states fault, the states complaining that they don't have enough money. Obviously there's a combination of causes for them to miss the target as badly as they are. Great Britain has decided to try to vaccinate as many people as they can with the first shot rather than hold back doses for the 2nd.

I saw this article the other day as to what the post vaccine world might look like: Vaccine passports:

"Many countries are going to put in at least for some time some kind of vaccination requirement," he said.

A so-called digital vaccine passport could have a QR code that would unlock your vaccine and COVID-19 testing information, which tourism experts say could be a requirement to travel and even enter places like stadiums, movie theaters, and concerts.

Several airlines, including Jet Blue and United, are now on board with the idea. They’ve partnered with the common trust network to create a CommonPass app.

https://katu.com/news/coronavirus/vacci ... TLUfLfsMyU

And we thought there was a big ruckus over wearing masks. Wait until people are denied entry to a football stadium or concert because they refuse to get vaccinated.

[NorthHawk]

Every new type of rollout will have it's problems and this is to be expected. As well, there are some supply chain concerns and distributions challenges to overcome.
Add to it Trumps overoptimistic self imposed time table and it disappoints people.
The other issue that all nations have is the people on the ground to actually administer the vaccinations. There are more people that want them than can give them
and with everyone having to wait for 15 to 30 minutes in case of an allergic reaction, it slows things down considerably. As well, I've heard that many if not most
States don't have the infrastructure to distribute a mass vaccination of this sort and need money to do so. So I think if you add all that in and probably more it's not
surprising that the rollout is behind the announced targets.

[RiverDog]

Every new type of rollout will have it's problems and this is to be expected. As well, there are some supply chain concerns and distributions challenges to overcome.
Add to it Trumps overoptimistic self imposed time table and it disappoints people.
The other issue that all nations have is the people on the ground to actually administer the vaccinations. There are more people that want them than can give them
and with everyone having to wait for 15 to 30 minutes in case of an allergic reaction, it slows things down considerably. As well, I've heard that many if not most
States don't have the infrastructure to distribute a mass vaccination of this sort and need money to do so. So I think if you add all that in and probably more it's not
surprising that the rollout is behind the announced targets.

This wasn't Trump's timetable. There were a lot of very respected spokesmen, like Fauci, that were giving us this information.

All of what you listed is true, but 3 million shots vs. a promised 20 million? That's a huge discrepancy to explain. You can't tell me that a lot of those problems you noted couldn't have been anticipated. They KNEW that they were going to have to provide waiting areas to monitor possible side effects. They KNEW, or should have known, the infrastructure that existed. The government's had months to prepare for this rollout.

One of the things I'm hearing is that there's a lot of health care providers that are refusing the vaccine. IMO they shouldn't have a choice, but I suppose that we are so dependent on them that we can't afford pissing them off and having them quit.

[Hawktawk]

There is a long term care facility in Ohio where 60% of staff refused the test. R Gov Mike Dewine said its not optimal but "we can't make them take it". What I find extremely alarming beyond the horrible rollout is this refusal to get the treatment. We are losing 4 K people a day. Certain parts of this country are a war zone. Ambulances are being turned away, morgues and funeral homes are swamped. people cant even properly bury their dead. Refer trucks parked all over.Gift shops and parking garages converted to covid wards. Still the disconnect.That HHS has ordered censorship of much of the carnage inside these hospitals tells you how it is. Crying nurses working 12 plus hour shift, caring for up to 12 patients apiece.

My take on the vaccine is fine, you don't have to take it. We will not care for you in a hospital without it. You won't work around people. You will never go to Lumen field or Safeco, fly, ride on a train or in an uber. You wont go in restaurants, bowling alleys or gyms.There's your freedom idiots.

I had an Echocardiogram in moses lake yesterday. The tech was a 28 year old graduate from my home town of Coulee City weirdly enough. The conversation drifted into Covid and I had a medical professional tell me it was "overhyped, less dangerous than the flu, people shouldn't be controlled by the government".I doubt he will get it unless its mandatory. My wife who works there and just got her first injection has informed me the CEO of confluence health has sent out a dire warning to protect themselves and prepare for building temporary additional space for beds.This kid works there and doesn't even listed to the boss.

My wife said I should anonymously report this kid but what's the use? this is nearly 50% if not more of the country . I see Fauci is now suggesting we should not hold doses for the second shot right away but get as many first shots in as many people as possible. I believe the first shot provides about 50% immunity and a far greater chance of surviving the disease if you get it.

I think he sees what I see just going on Drudge report and reading the news. At the rate things are going with covid deniers and with this horrible rollout coupled with a new more contagious strain showing up all over the country we could have a zombie apocalypse by inauguration day. Probably will have. Hell 4k people daily we already do have and it's gonna get much worse I'm afraid.

[NorthHawk]

All of what you listed is true, but 3 million shots vs. a promised 20 million? That's a huge discrepancy to explain. You can't tell me that a lot of those problems you noted couldn't have been anticipated. They KNEW that they were going to have to provide waiting areas to monitor possible side effects. They KNEW, or should have known, the infrastructure that existed. The government's had months to prepare for this rollout.

It's never been done before on such a wide scale, so there are going to be a lot of unknowns to overcome as well as setting up state infrastructures to distribute. Even if they've had months to work out
a plan, large scale operations rarely follow that plan perfectly and most of the issues appear early on. In a perfect world where there were no weather issues and all of the infrastructure was already set
up, we would be a lot closer to the 10 million landmark. I expect things to get a lot better in the coming months with distributing the vaccines and reaching their goals. Some of the problems do lie with
the Federal Gov't in funding for many States to put up an infrastructure to distribute the vaccine. The President as normal is handing off the responsibilities for that far quicker than he should and moving
on to other things. So the real problems that will probably hamper the process is lack of money at the State level in a lot of cases. Things like rural areas and inner cities where there aren't pharmacies
in the area so local people have ready access are just two big problems to overcome, and there are more, I'm sure.

[RiverDog]

All of what you listed is true, but 3 million shots vs. a promised 20 million? That's a huge discrepancy to explain. You can't tell me that a lot of those problems you noted couldn't have been anticipated. They KNEW that they were going to have to provide waiting areas to monitor possible side effects. They KNEW, or should have known, the infrastructure that existed. The government's had months to prepare for this rollout.

It's never been done before on such a wide scale, so there are going to be a lot of unknowns to overcome as well as setting up state infrastructures to distribute. Even if they've had months to work out a plan, large scale operations rarely follow that plan perfectly and most of the issues appear early on. In a perfect world where there were no weather issues and all of the infrastructure was already set
up, we would be a lot closer to the 10 million landmark. I expect things to get a lot better in the coming months with distributing the vaccines and reaching their goals. Some of the problems do lie with
the Federal Gov't in funding for many States to put up an infrastructure to distribute the vaccine. The President as normal is handing off the responsibilities for that far quicker than he should and moving
on to other things. So the real problems that will probably hamper the process is lack of money at the State level in a lot of cases. Things like rural areas and inner cities where there aren't pharmacies
in the area so local people have ready access are just two big problems to overcome, and there are more, I'm sure.

The landmark is 20 million. We're not even at 20% of the target. And I won't argue a bit about Trump's role. He has done nothing to cooperate with the states.

I agree with just about everything you've said, but even so, missing the mark by that much is inexcusable. This appears to me to be another F-up by the government not too unlike the screw-up they made when the pandemic first started when they insisted on developing their own test kits instead of taking what was made available to them by the WHO.

I'm sure that things will improve, but this stumbling out of the gate on the vaccine is another example of our government's bungling of their response.

[Aseahawkfan]

Why are we allowing ourselves to be so terrible right now? smh.

[RiverDog]

Why are we allowing ourselves to be so terrible right now? smh.

It sure makes you wonder about the competency of the federal government and how horribly inefficient they've become. Can you imagine the cluster phuck that would result if this current rendition of the government was given the task of landing a man on the moon in a little over 11 years after they'd launched their first satellite?

[c_hawkbob]

I just got a text from my daughter. She's signed up to get her vaccine next Monday.

Evidently Washington is doing better with their rollout tan is my state, My kids that also work in a nursing home are set up to get theirs finally next week.

[RiverDog]

I just got a text from my daughter. She's signed up to get her vaccine next Monday.

Evidently Washington is doing better with their rollout tan is my state, My kids that also work in a nursing home are set up to get theirs finally next week.

Not really. As of yesterday, 356,000 doses have been delivered to WA yet only 59,000 have been administered, or less than 17%. I think I read or heard somewhere is that part of the problem is that the government still hasn't finalized their contracts with CVS and Walgren's to administer vaccinations to nursing homes and assisted living facilities, but don't quote me on that.

[c_hawkbob]

Not really. As of yesterday, 356,000 doses have been delivered to WA yet only 59,000 have been administered, or less than 17%. I think I read or heard somewhere is that part of the problem is that the government still hasn't finalized their contracts with CVS and Walgren's to administer vaccinations to nursing homes and assisted living facilities, but don't quote me on that.

I believe they're setting up a room at the facility and having the shots actually administered by the staff at my kid's work.

[RiverDog]

Not really. As of yesterday, 356,000 doses have been delivered to WA yet only 59,000 have been administered, or less than 17%. I think I read or heard somewhere is that part of the problem is that the government still hasn't finalized their contracts with CVS and Walgren's to administer vaccinations to nursing homes and assisted living facilities, but don't quote me on that.

I believe they're setting up a room at the facility and having the shots actually administered by the staff at my kid's work.

In WA they've expanded the number of health care workers eligible in the '1A' group to include anyone that works in a health care facility, like a records clerk or a janitor. Personally I don't care who's arm gets the needle so long as they start getting people poked.

On Monday, they're supposed to announce those in the next group, '1B', anyone with underlying conditions, anyone over age 75, teachers, grocery clerks, etc. Our hope is that my wife will fall into that category, but it's not clear to us whether she's going to have to acquire some form of documentation and go to a pharmacy, go to her primary care physician, get a prescription, or if it's something as simple as the honor system. She just spoke with her doctor's office last week and they don't have a clue, nor does the local health district.

This is one of the parts of the roll out that has me frustrated as they should have had stuff like this figured out long ago. The state will argue that the federal government hasn't given them good numbers on how many and which kind of doses they're going to receive, but there's no reason why the state couldn't have had several contingencies....if we receive 100K doses of Pfizer and 50k doses of Moderna, here's who we're going to give the shots to, if we get 300K doses here's who's going to get the shots, and so on, but they don't have a plan. It's like the Keystone Cops.

Some states are doing very well. Nebraska, for example, has received 63K doses and they've injected 27K, or roughly a third. As of Thursday, they had injected all of the Pfizer vaccine except that which had been received in the past 24 hours and about 25% of the Moderna vaccine, most of which has just arrived and will be distributed to places w/o super cold freezers. Certainly there's differences in population and logistical challenges between states, but it's apparent that some were better prepared than others.

[RiverDog]

Now I'm reading gloom and doom predictions of the next phase of the roll out:

'It's going to get much uglier': The US is not prepared for the next phase of COVID-19 vaccinations'

Several state health departments told Business Insider they are still sorting out the logistics of who gets vaccinated next and how that process will transpire.

Many state health departments, including those in Colorado, Connecticut, Indiana, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Vermont, and Virginia, told Business Insider that they are still sorting out the logistics of who will get vaccinated next, how individuals will be prioritized, and which sites will assist with the immunizations. Some departments said they hope to finalize the parameters in the coming days or weeks.

Three large primary care chains recently told Business Insider that they don't know when to expect vaccines for their own healthcare workers, let alone patients. They also don't know how many doses are coming, or what to tell patients who call to ask when they can get the shots.

It's also unclear what type of identification states will require to verify that people are in the vaccine priority groups. Health officials in Lee County, for instance, asked healthcare workers to provide a copy of their ID badge or a current paystub.

"If you're a nurse practitioner or a pharmacist at CVS, how do you verify that somebody somebody's a mass transit worker?" Jha said. "Do you need a letter from their HR department? Can somebody forge a letter?"

"We're not getting a lot of information from the state health departments or pharmacies or hospitals at this point about when we're going to be engaged," Dr. Jason Lane, an infectious-disease doctor at ChenMed, a Miami-based primary care chain, said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... uxbndlbing

This is incredible. We've had months to figure out these details. There's no excuse for them not to know things like what kind of ID is necessary to show that you belong to a particular group.