4 Reasons Everyone Hates The 49ers

[kalibane]

So the Forty Niners worked all day to set up a 1 on 1 matchup against Sherman on a pattern that he never gives up a compeltion on and has resulted in a turnover at least 4 times in the last 2 seasons?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And the proof is in the result. Crabtree was guilty of pass interference on that play and the best he could do was prevent Sherman from intercepting the ball himself. If that was your game plan you need to fire Greg Roman.

[monkey]

So the Forty Niners worked all day to set up a 1 on 1 matchup against Sherman on a pattern that he never gives up a compeltion on and has resulted in a turnover at least 4 times in the last 2 seasons?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And the proof is in the result. Crabtree was guilty of pass interference on that play and the best he could do was prevent Sherman from intercepting the ball himself. If that was your game plan you need to fire Greg Roman.

That is EXACTLY the same thought I had when I read that...you mean the Niners planned and planned just to get that result?!?
Are they STUPID???
Were they TRYING to lose???
Seriously, that's got to be the most retarded thing I've ever heard. If that was Roman's big plan, then he is hands down the WORST coordinator I have ever seen. You don't intentionally attack the one guy who has given your team and specifically your QB more fits than any other...they were moving the ball against Maxwell and in the spaces in the zone on his side of the field, take your shot over there!
Why in the world would you go to the other side, after only (wisely) throwing there one time all game beforehand?!?

Seriously, makes no sense to anyone who is not a Niners fan.

Even if they thought they would catch Sherman off guard it didn't work at all. If you listen to sound FX, Sherman called it before it happened. He told his teammates that they (the Niners) were going to "try him" and he was going to capitalize.
The only question here is, do you think Richard Sherman; A) has a photographic memory. B) is prescient. or C) is just that damn good?

[kalibane]

Here's the stupidest thing about that statement. You don't have to use any kind of misdirection or set up to get that matchup.

It's been well established that the Seahawks don't get cute on defense. They play either man or a 3 deep 4 under zone. And either way you can put Crabtree on that side of the field, run a fade and get that matchup pretty much any time you want it.

[kalibane]

Also, people forget that Crab has beaten Sherm on that exact same route several times. Maybe that's what they were thinking? Not what I would have done, why go at their best player? But oh well.

I can't believe I missed this. Future... people can't forget things that never happened. Here is the REALITY of Crabtree vs. Sherman. Crabtree and Sherman have faced off in 6 games in their careers (including the NFC championship).

Crabtree's numbers: 22 Catches (3.67 catchers per game) 279 yards (46.5 yards per game), 0 TDs, 12.2 yards per catch. As Cris Carter would say "Pedestrian".

More importantly: Crabtree has only caught 6 passes on Sherman's side of the field in his entire career. 5 of those balls were caught on underneath patterns where the catch occurred less than 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage (One on a bubble screen). The one long yardage catch Crabtree has ever made against Sherman was in garbage time of the 42-13 blowout at the Clink

What exactly are you getting out of just making stuff up?

[HumanCockroach]

Yep, lol, Jared Allen woulda been HUGE for us if we signed him. Ugh, just got through posting that elsewhere.

As for the final play, I dunno. I mean, Sherman Excels in man to man coverage in those situations. So while it may normally be the correct read, I think RS is one of the few exceptions to that rule. And CK new he was out there, obviously.

It did take a heck of a play for that INT to happen, to be sure, but I also think Kaep's contention (and others) that if he threw it higher it woulda been a TD isn't accurate. Any higher and I think the throw carries MC out of bounds. But at least in that scenario, it's still only 2nd down with time for 2 or 3 more plays.

Anyway, this isn't to beat up on your team. It'll be between Seattle and SF for the Super Bowl next season as well, IMO. I think the Panthers actually take a big fall with some of the losses they've had in the offseason, and no other team really has as dominate a defense like the Seahawks or 49ers, all things considered.

I actually look for Seattle to improve on offense, taking some pressure off the D to win games. Percy Harvin healthy really makes us a whole different team in that regard. If the Hawks can average 3 more ppg, it'd put us over the 450 mark (465), which adds up to 29 per. Harvin can help achieve that goal, and it'd be awfully tough to hang 30 on us any given Sunday. We'll see.

Ya Percy is a monster upgrade from Tate. Tate, Percy had proven he can beat coverage on a consistent basis AND get YAC. I actually like Kearse a lot more than Rice. He has size and big play ability. IMO your receivers are upgraded from last yr by default which sucks on some levels but gives me minor satisfaction that I no longer have to listen to the toutung of Tate and Rice lol. Plus, this draft is so deep at wr that you could end up with a stud like Marquise Lee.

I don't take the comments as beating up on us. Just calling it as you saw it. I was a fan of throwing to the endzone, but not the damn fade. Roman is a questionable OC. I mean, we hadn't thrown corner fades all yr and then he unveiled 3 in a row in GB. None of them worked. To me, that is an approach that was taught in practice all week and most likely practiced in 4th qtr drills. But you cannot get that timing and execution down in a couple weeks. Odds are if we had called a timeout and tried to dink and doink the last 18 yds we don't get in. Didn't work all yr. Also, people forget that Crab has beaten Sherm on that exact same route several times. Maybe that's what they were thinking? Not what I would have done, why go at their best player? But oh well.

Will be interesting to see what both teams do in the upcoming draft. Could tell a lot about what they each perceive their weakness to be.

Um, when did Crabtree have success on that route against Sherman? Sorry, went back and looked, and Crabtree has 0 TD's against the Seahawks since Sherman has been starting ( and that includes when he has lined up against other corners) so I'm just not sure where you got the whole "Crabtree has been successful against Sherman on those routes before" thought, hasn't happened yet, it may happen at some point, but to date, nope.

[Futureite]

Well, not sure if Sherman had coverage in the 2011 December game, but Alex threw that same route late in that game for a 30+ yd gain to set up the winning score.

In 2012 December in Seattle game Crab caught that same fade over Sherman for another 30+ yd gain, to whuch Sherman gave a golf clap.

Then you had Boldin (yes I know, this diverges from the comment but it's the same principle) again on that same route in the December game at the Stick, where he outleaped Sherman and came down with the ball for about a 20 yd gain.

So actually, s***. Considering those examples it seems like a goid idea in retrospect.

[Futureite]

So the Forty Niners worked all day to set up a 1 on 1 matchup against Sherman on a pattern that he never gives up a compeltion on and has resulted in a turnover at least 4 times in the last 2 seasons?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And the proof is in the result. Crabtree was guilty of pass interference on that play and the best he could do was prevent Sherman from intercepting the ball himself. If that was your game plan you need to fire Greg Roman.

Just provided 2 examples where he was beat over the top. Did I say you throw at him every play or plan to.pick on him? No. I posted that "maybe" they thought they could beat him on that route. If you don't remember Crabtree beating him in the December 2012 game down the sideline, that's on you.

He is a very good corner - prob top 3 - but he's not the Michael Jordan of CBs. He can be beaten and it's not luducrius to throw at him. Whether Crab pushed, whether the throw was off and woulda been a TD are equally hypothetical.

[Futureite]

Also, people forget that Crab has beaten Sherm on that exact same route several times. Maybe that's what they were thinking? Not what I would have done, why go at their best player? But oh well.

I can't believe I missed this. Future... people can't forget things that never happened. Here is the REALITY of Crabtree vs. Sherman. Crabtree and Sherman have faced off in 6 games in their careers (including the NFC championship).

Crabtree's numbers: 22 Catches (3.67 catchers per game) 279 yards (46.5 yards per game), 0 TDs, 12.2 yards per catch. As Cris Carter would say "Pedestrian".

More importantly: Crabtree has only caught 6 passes on Sherman's side of the field in his entire career. 5 of those balls were caught on underneath patterns where the catch occurred less than 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage (One on a bubble screen). The one long yardage catch Crabtree has ever made against Sherman was in garbage time of the 42-13 blowout at the Clink

What exactly are you getting out of just making stuff up?

As long as you also qualify Sherman's multiple INTs in the 58-0 Cards' blowout and his INT V us up 22-3 late and the one up 42-6 late as "garbage" time ints that don't matter, then you can disqualify the catch V Crab. s*** man come to think.of it, under your logic Sherman gets a lot of stat padding garbage time INTs.

Malcom Smith had what, 5 ints in 5 or 6 total starts? Should we have stayed away from short/intermediate stuff too? Didn't Lane have 4 ints in as many starts too? Guess we couldn't throw at him.

Bottom line coaches see things in every player that can be exploited. Tom Brady, Adrian Peterson, you name it. It's your own pure arrogance that leads you to believe coaches watch Sherman with their eyes closed, believing it's useless to ever throw at him in any situation. In 2007 the NY Giants actually dared the best QB in the league to beat them in the SB even AFTER he had put up 38 pts v them just weeks prior. Guess what? It worked.

Cut the BS man. I actually posted "not what I would have done" followed by "maybe" they thought they could beat him on thst route. Maybe it was Crab and Kaep's ego that led to that throw. I don't know.

[HumanCockroach]

Also, people forget that Crab has beaten Sherm on that exact same route several times. Maybe that's what they were thinking? Not what I would have done, why go at their best player? But oh well.

I can't believe I missed this. Future... people can't forget things that never happened. Here is the REALITY of Crabtree vs. Sherman. Crabtree and Sherman have faced off in 6 games in their careers (including the NFC championship).

Crabtree's numbers: 22 Catches (3.67 catchers per game) 279 yards (46.5 yards per game), 0 TDs, 12.2 yards per catch. As Cris Carter would say "Pedestrian".

More importantly: Crabtree has only caught 6 passes on Sherman's side of the field in his entire career. 5 of those balls were caught on underneath patterns where the catch occurred less than 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage (One on a bubble screen). The one long yardage catch Crabtree has ever made against Sherman was in garbage time of the 42-13 blowout at the Clink

What exactly are you getting out of just making stuff up?

As long as you also qualify Sherman's multiple INTs in the 58-0 Cards' blowout and his INT V us up 22-3 late and the one up 42-6 late as "garbage" time ints that don't matter, then you can disqualify the catch V Crab. s*** man come to think.of it, under your logic Sherman gets a lot of stat padding garbage time INTs.

Malcom Smith had what, 5 ints in 5 or 6 total starts? Should we have stayed away from short/intermediate stuff too? Didn't Lane have 4 ints in as many starts too? Guess we couldn't throw at him.

Bottom line coaches see things in every player that can be exploited. Tom Brady, Adrian Peterson, you name it. It's your own pure arrogance that leads you to believe coaches watch Sherman with their eyes closed, believing it's useless to ever throw at him in any situation. In 2007 the NY Giants actually dared the best QB in the league to beat them in the SB even AFTER he had put up 38 pts v them just weeks prior. Guess what? It worked.

Cut the BS man. I actually posted "not what I would have done" followed by "maybe" they thought they could beat him on thst route. Maybe it was Crab and Kaep's ego that led to that throw. I don't know.

Dude, Crabs has ZERO TD's in games started by Sherman, that is ZERO. You have that? So, obviously, he has NOT had success with that route on Sherman at least not in the endzone.

And for the LOVE of Pete, would you PLEASE stop saying Lane, when referring to Maxwell? Lane did NOT start last year, I've mentioned it numerous times, and you STILL don't know who was the starting CB's on Seattle roster, I don't repeatedly say Hunter when talking about Gore do I? At the VERY least, KNOW who is PLAYING on the Seahawks, it does NOT help with your credibility in the least, especially when you are claiming success that never happened.

[HumanCockroach]

Well, not sure if Sherman had coverage in the 2011 December game, but Alex threw that same route late in that game for a 30+ yd gain to set up the winning score.

In 2012 December in Seattle game Crab caught that same fade over Sherman for another 30+ yd gain, to whuch Sherman gave a golf clap.

Then you had Boldin (yes I know, this diverges from the comment but it's the same principle) again on that same route in the December game at the Stick, where he outleaped Sherman and came down with the ball for about a 20 yd gain.

So actually, s***. Considering those examples it seems like a goid idea in retrospect.

LOL, which one of those routes were in the endzone? None is it? So no, not the same route Future. I'm not sure I have ever seen Sherman beat for a TD on a fade in his career in Seattle. So obviously in retrospect ( and obviously the outcome) still not a good idea.

[Hawk Sista]

Crabs, immature as he is; VD; and Boldin are very good. When they are each healthy & frank is running well...it's certainly no cake-walk for any D. Especially if CK is on & Roman doesn't have his head up his butt. Consistency from CK, play-calling & health were your 3 biggest enemies, IMHO.

As I see it, we aren't comparing our offensive weapons to yours. The NFL is all about matchups (see the Super Bowl as exhibit #1). Our existing secondary, though w/considerably less depth after free agency, is arguably the best such unit ever assembled in the NFL...and the Niner skill players, solid as they are, are NOT a historically elite group.... yet that's who they face...not Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, Miller etc.. Your niner skill folks (save lynch-I take him over Gore everyday of the week & twice on Sunday...but I like & respect your dude) may be be an upgrade over our existing similar positioned folks, but again...we don't have to face OUR LOB. Your 2ndary was the weak link in an otherwise formidable D. So I like our WRs/TEs/RW vs. your secondary better than the other way round. But I'm a homer.

[Futureite]

Crabs, immature as he is; VD; and Boldin are very good. When they are each healthy & frank is running well...it's certainly no cake-walk for any D. Especially if CK is on & Roman doesn't have his head up his butt. Consistency from CK, play-calling & health were your 3 biggest enemies, IMHO.

As I see it, we aren't comparing our offensive weapons to yours. The NFL is all about matchups (see the Super Bowl as exhibit #1). Our existing secondary, though w/considerably less depth after free agency, is arguably the best such unit ever assembled in the NFL...and the Niner skill players, solid as they are, are a historically elite group.... yet that's who they face...not Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, Miller etc.. Your niner skill folks (save lynch-I take him over Gore everyday of the week & twice on Sunday...but I like & respect your dude) may be be an upgrade over our existing similar positioned folks, but again...we don't have to face OUR LOB. Your 2ndary was the weak link in an otherwise formidable D. So I like our WRs/TEs/RW vs. your secondary better than the other way round. But I'm a homer.

Good post. Like I said, I actually think you are a lot better at the skill positions now with Harvin, Kearse and Baldwin. That is a talented group and even Luke Wilson creates some matchup problems. Lynch is no question a better back than Gore at this point.

All of that said, the total were 308 to 308 the last time these teams played, so I am not sure if either side really has a matchup advantage. The draft will shake things up even more, as we may go heavy on corner or WR, and Carroll may go O-line or still land a talented receiver in this deep draft.

You guys are the champs and we are playing catchup . Going to be another hate filled year lol.

[HumanCockroach]

So the Forty Niners worked all day to set up a 1 on 1 matchup against Sherman on a pattern that he never gives up a compeltion on and has resulted in a turnover at least 4 times in the last 2 seasons?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And the proof is in the result. Crabtree was guilty of pass interference on that play and the best he could do was prevent Sherman from intercepting the ball himself. If that was your game plan you need to fire Greg Roman.

Just provided 2 examples where he was beat over the top. Did I say you throw at him every play or plan to.pick on him? No. I posted that "maybe" they thought they could beat him on that route. If you don't remember Crabtree beating him in the December 2012 game down the sideline, that's on you.

He is a very good corner - prob top 3 - but he's not the Michael Jordan of CBs. He can be beaten and it's not luducrius to throw at him. Whether Crab pushed, whether the throw was off and woulda been a TD are equally hypothetical.

The QBR'S would disagree with you. Brady, Manning,Rodgers, pick any HOF QB you want. There is a reason the completion percentage, the average yards per completion, and turnovers when targeted are all number one in the NFL, an it isn't because Sherman got lucky, if you would take your hate filled glasses off, you would realise that you ARE watching the best corner in the game, and one of the best to ever play in the game ( at least so far).

ALL the numbers back up what people here say about him, if you bothered to actually look stuff up, you might learn something. The Quarterback ranking is LOWER when targeting Sherman than ANY CB in the NFL in over 20 years ( and yes that includes Revis, nd any other corner you care to include) his range is BETTER than anyone I have every seen at the point of attack ( meaning it is next to impossible to complete a pass when he is within 3 or so yards of the ball) and that INCLUDES Deion,or Green or anyone you want to add.

Anyone that can be the LEAST targeted corner in the game, and yet still intercept the ball 8 times ( not to mention tips that tuned into picks) and have the MOST passes defensed in the league, is not just good, but special.

[Hawk Sista]

HOMER! Using facts to make a point. Sheesh

[Futureite]

The QBR may be lower v Sherman but QBR is far lower than average for those sane QBs V your entire pass D - not just Sherman. Look at what they did to Drew Brees the first meeting and most of the 2nd. Most people believe that Earl Thomas is the best player in that backfield. Sherman's play is bolstered by a great pass rush and top level safeties behind him and a system that asks him to cover one side of the field. As I pointed out, Malcolm Smith and Lane (ok, kidding!) excuse me Maxwell put up gaudy numbers as well, averaging what, a pick a game? Everyone is going to play better on a D like that.

I don't believe I am hating on Sherman when I say he is a top 3 corner. That means he is one of the 3 best lol. And I do believe he's excellent. Maybe "the" best. Do I believe he is this ultimate gamechanger that would lock down any team's number 1 and dominate on, say the Bears D like you do? No. I don't believe he is that type of player.

[HumanCockroach]

The QBR may be lower v Sherman but QBR is far lower than average for those sane QBs V your entire pass D - not just Sherman. Look at what they did to Drew Brees the first meeting and most of the 2nd. Most people believe that Earl Thomas is the best player in that backfield. Sherman's play is bolstered by a great pass rush and top level safeties behind him and a system that asks him to cover one side of the field. As I pointed out, Malcolm Smith and Lane (ok, kidding!) excuse me Maxwell put up gaudy numbers as well, averaging what, a pick a game? Everyone is going to play better on a D like that.

I don't believe I am hating on Sherman when I say he is a top 3 corner. That means he is one of the 3 best lol. And I do believe he's excellent. Maybe "the" best. Do I believe he is this ultimate gamechanger that would lock down any team's number 1 and dominate on, say the Bears D like you do? No. I don't believe he is that type of player.

Sure they drop across the board, big difference between a 89 rating when targeting a Maxwell, as opposed to a 63 when targeting Sherman. We aren't talking about abstract numbers, we are talking about SPECIFICALLY when targeting Sherman, and only Sherman. He isn't making Fitzgeralds look awful, he's making Mannings, Brees, Rodgers, Brady's, or is it your contention that those QB's had those issues with other corners the last couple years as well? We are NOT talking about a minor drop, we are talking about DRASTIC differences, no matter the quality of the QB or the Receivers, that does not just happen by mistake, and certainly NOT in every game, does it? These aren't flukes, SF has a great front seven too, why hasn't one of their corners become top three? Last year they wear on par, the year before better, and STILL Sherman continues his success year in and year out.

Seattle does indeed have great safeties, but I seem to remember SF rolling out a few decent ones as well, the last two years, was I mistaken. Complaining about talent around them, is pointless. None of that changes the results when it was him that was targeted.

[Futureite]

I will have to check this, but what if I was to say Wes Welker has caught more passes over the last 7 yrs than any other receiver in history? Would you say he is better than a whole host of HOF wide receivers?

Or that Aldon Smith had more sacks over his first X many games than any other player in NFL history? Better than Lawrence Taylor?

"Stats don't lie". That's total BS. They are only relevant when viewed in context of the entire picture. The two players I named are outstanding. But I'd take Steve Largent and Lawrence Taylor over Wes Welker and Aldon Smith before you could even get the words out of your mouth. I'd take Deion Sanders over Richard Sherman without even thinking, and I don't know too many football fans that wouldn't. Deion Sandrrs on that Seattle D would be absurd. They may not complete a pass in him the entire season.

[HumanCockroach]

We aren't talking about receptions are we? Sack totals? No? We are talking about standing on an island, and allowing less to land there than ANYONE else, no matter the talent level faced. I'll stick with my experience over you're eyeball theory. I promise you I have watched Deion MORE than you have Future, I KNOW what he was excellent at,for my money, I'll take Sherman over Deion, at least in the first two years, hands down, more productive.

[Futureite]

We aren't talking about receptions are we? Sack totals? No? We are talking about standing on an island, and allowing less to land there than ANYONE else, no matter the talent level faced. I'll stick with my experience over you're eyeball theory. I promise you I have watched Deion MORE than you have Future, I KNOW what he was excellent at,for my money, I'll take Sherman over Deion, at least in the first two years, hands down, more productive.

I guess that's where I disagree. I don't see Sherman on an island. I see him covering one side of the field with probably the fastest safety in the league covering the back end. I don't believe he could do what Revis or Deion has, and that is to shaddow the opposing team's best WR all over the field. I flat out do not believe he would dominate Randy Moss in his prime for an entire game like Revis did several times. No matter how cagy he is, Sherman just does not possess the elite speed to do that.

I would say Earl Thomas is in that riduculous league now. The guy does things I have never seen safeties do, and I said that over and over again at my Niner friends' house while watching the Thurs Night Hawk/Ram game. I have never had that feeling watching Sherman. He is just not an athlete on that level in my opinion.

[Seahawks4Ever]

One thing that is not being taken in to account in the Sherman Vs. Revis and/or Sanders debate is that Sherman is being told to go take out the opposing team's #1 receiver. Not because he can't do it, but because we have good enough players in our defensive backfield that we don't have to play teams that way.

Richard Sherman would be the first person to admit that he doesn't have the speed Sanders had and that Revis used to have before he lost a step, or two. But, with his superior football knowledge because of his film study and his instincts along with the superior play by both Thomas and Chancellor he doesn't HAVR to have that blazing speed. Can Sherman "set up" QB's like Sanders used to do? you bet, I've seen him do it. Sanders played in a different era though, when Dion played he could have his hands all over the receivers he was playing against. Now, if Sherman even looks sideways at his opponent the zebras are throwing a flag.

As with Revis, is he the complete player Sherman is? Is he as good at covering the run as good as Sherman? The answer is NO. While Revis is out there covering his island he leaves it to others to do the dirty work. What I remember about Revis with the Jets is he signed a new contract and was happy then he was unhappy so he fired his agent and held out until the Jets tore up the contract he had just signed and gave him a new one. That was very greedy and selfish of Revis. you noticed the Jets eventually got rid of a me first team some where way down the list guy. Richard Sherman is a team first guy.

Oh, and Sanders? He was another ultra selfish player who jumped from team to team. He jumped from the Falcons who put up with his playing for the Braves B.S. to the 40Whiners to get on that teams last championship gasp. Then Neon Dion jumped to the Cowboys to get in on their last championship gasp. After that, Sanders jumped to the Foreskins but the Gibbs magic was no longer there and Dion had lost a few steps. From there, he jumped to the Cravens whom he thought would surely be more than one and done but guess what? They were.

Nope, I too will take a Richard Sherman all day long. Something about those team first guys that builds loyalty.

[kalibane]

Just provided 2 examples where he was beat over the top. Did I say you throw at him every play or plan to.pick on him? No. I posted that "maybe" they thought they could beat him on that route. If you don't remember Crabtree beating him in the December 2012 game down the sideline, that's on you.

He is a very good corner - prob top 3 - but he's not the Michael Jordan of CBs. He can be beaten and it's not luducrius to throw at him. Whether Crab pushed, whether the throw was off and woulda been a TD are equally hypothetical.

Don't you get tired of getting verbally smacked down Future? What you're saying did not happen. In 2011 Crabtree caught two deep balls both on Browner on the left side of the field. In 2012 he caught one deep ball on Sherman playing a soft zone in a blowout. Boldin has never caught a fade on Sherman. He caught a pass that would probably best be described as a deep hitch. Boldin ran straight up field and turned in, the ball was delivered inside. That is not a fade.

Again: Crabtree has 6 catches on Sherman's side of the field in his career and only ONE of those balls was on a pattern run more than 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. That one ball was in a complete blow out against soft coverage.

There simply is no pattern of Crabtree beating Sherman on that play like you claim. There is in fact only one instance in Sherman and the 49ers where he might have been beaten on the outside shoulder, by Vernon Davis. (I have no highlight of the play though).

Statistically it is the worst pattern to throw on Sherman. He excells at using the sideline and that underneath trail position on outside releases. Sherman's weak areas are on double moves like slant and goes against quick WRs and covering out of the slot (one area where Revis is definitely better than him).

No one called him the Michael Jordon of DBs... But throwing a fade on him is stupid. The tape doesn't lie. And you don't know what you're talking about period.

[Hawk Sista]

Great work there, KAL.

[Futureite]

Lol what is a "deep hitch"? I guess you were watching a Youtube of the 2000 Rams with Warner throwing 20 YD digs to Bruce. Define it however you want. Back shoulder throw. Fade. Deep hitch. Bottom line is they threw over the top and Boldin outleaped Sherman to get the ball at its highest point. They threw over the top on Sherman in 2012. And in nearly EVERY game that I have watched, the opposing QBs have tried to throw deep on Sherman. So regardless of whether you chide the idea, OCs are seeing something that they believe they can exploit.

Again, if you read what I wrote - I posted that I was not certain the 2011 ball was thrown on Sherman. Lastly, again, I posted "maybe" that is what they were thinking followed by "that's not what I would do". I have no idea what was called or if they even care who is playing corner when they throw that route. I definitely don't believe teams live in fear of testing Richard Sherman.

[Futureite]

Look at the best pure cover corners in NFL history. Guys thst could lick any team's best wr down, follow him all around the field. Darrel Green. Deion Sanders. Rod Woodson. ALL of them had elite, upper 1% level speed. Richard Sherman does not. He will never be that type of db. He will always get tested deep.

[c_hawkbob]

Just stop already.

You're trying to convince us that you have been watching the thing everyone has and seeing it differently than the entire rest of the NFL world and that somehow you're right and everybody else is wrong. Talk about p*ssing into the wind ...

[Futureite]

Just stop already.

You're trying to convince us that you have been watching the thing everyone has and seeing it differently than the entire rest of the NFL world and that somehow you're right and everybody else is wrong. Talk about p*ssing into the wind ...

And you are assuming that the rest of the NFL world - most noteably his cohorts - see it the same way you do. Champ Bailey, Revis, Deangelo Hall, ie plenty of other corners came out after the NFCCCG and basically said what I have , but for obvious reasons did so in more a more juducious and calculated manner. Just funny how even when I say I have no problem putting the guy near the top you want me to polish the nob on the HOF bust you've already molded for him.

[kalibane]

This is a committment to being wrong that I have rarely seen. Future... you are not smart. You do not know what you're talking about. Here is an excerpt of Football Outsider's detailed anaylsis where they broke down every single snap of 2013 to compare Revis and Sherman:

"The 49ers learned here that throwing at Sherman down the sideline when he is playing man coverage is not a good idea. Sherman is as likely to intercept passes that go past his outside shoulder down the sideline as those passes are to be completed to the receiver.

The 49ers would be reminded of this lesson that they failed to learn later in the season."


Sherman was not beaten over the top by Boldin. Boldin was underneath him and the throw was to the inside. This is no where near the same pattern as a fade. Now I have seen Randy Moss beat Darelle Revis over the top for a TD. But like you said for the most part Revis shut Moss down. One beat does not mean everything. You are completely out of your depth. You have not seen teams try to challenge Sherman every game deep because he was the least targeted DB in the entire NFL last year. This is a fact. Like the 49ers in the NFC championship teams would only throw his way 1 or 2 times the entire game. I'm really getting tired of your idiocy on this front.

Furthermore, stop trying to downgrade Sherman because he doesn't follow the best WR all over the field. It's just not part of the Seahawks scheme and they don't need to because the off CB is not getting destroyed. But remind us again what happened when the Seahawks allowed Sherman to follow Boldin? Boldin had 1 catch for 7 yards and that catch didn't come until the 4th quarter. Where were those deep throws against Sherman in that game? Oh yeah they tried one with Vernon Davis and the result was an interception.

Stop talking about the best pure cover corners like you know what you're talking about. Deion was the first corner to follow the best WR all over the field. Then it became like a status symbol. But Rod Woodson DID NOT follow the best WR. Darrell Green DID NOT follow the best WR. Mike Haynes DID NOT follow the best WR.

Stop talking out of your ass... you just make yourself look dumber and dumber. Following a WR is a relatively new development in the game. And it really doesn't mean anything anyway. Deangelo Hall follows the best WR for the Redskins and he gets beat no matter who he covers.

More to the point. DEFINITELY Crabtree doesn't beat Sherman deep with any regularity, we'll be sure to remind you again when Crabtree and Boldin are unable to beat Sherman next year too.

[Hawk Sista]

Tell him Bobby & Kal! He's trying to get under our skin & it's working. 1 PT. For future. We have the facts & a Lombardi on our side. +100 for us.

[HumanCockroach]

Look at the best pure cover corners in NFL history. Guys thst could lick any team's best wr down, follow him all around the field. Darrel Green. Deion Sanders. Rod Woodson. ALL of them had elite, upper 1% level speed. Richard Sherman does not. He will never be that type of db. He will always get tested deep.

LOL. And Sherman covers MORE area than ANY of those cover corners, you make it sound like there is ONLY one way to get a job done, it isn't the way it is. You brought up Welker and Largent earlier in the thread and professed that Largent was hands down better ( and he is) but, using your SAME flawed logic, he shouldn't have been the greatest receiver to ever play up to that point. He was short, slow and yet he somehow crafted a HOF career, on a team that didn't throw the ball much, with QB's that certainly aren't upper echelon passers, so how the F did he do it?

Deion had blazing speed and amazing footwork, Green had great speed and STUDIED an insane amount of film, Woodson had good speed and amazing footwork, so please explain how a Corner with good speed, great hands, great study habits and more importantly better range and size then all three of them can't do it? I really am interested.

Spent three decades studying, emulating, and teaching the finer points of the three you listed ( as well as MANY others) and sorry man, but you're wrong, PLAIN wrong. NONE of those three made plays on the ball the WAY that Sherman does, and it isn't even close. They used speed, or footwork to get it done, Sherman uses his length and ball skills. Does that mean the end result is different? Well, I mean other than Sherman picks of MORE passes, with the SAME amount of targets ( or actually less than those brought up), meaning LESS opportunity, with MORE success ( which is simply put uncommon and odd).

Your argument lacks knowledge, facts and basis. Claiming the "follow excuse" is dumb, when a HOF corner has a good stable of running mates, he doesn't HAVE to follow does he? Nope.

As for them "testing" him deep, be my guest, hasn't worked so far, but hey you know eventually they might get him, maybe he'll trip like he did in Atlanta, but I will happily take 20 or so Turnovers for every one of those, with a big ass smile on my face.

[HumanCockroach]

Just stop already.

You're trying to convince us that you have been watching the thing everyone has and seeing it differently than the entire rest of the NFL world and that somehow you're right and everybody else is wrong. Talk about p*ssing into the wind ...

And you are assuming that the rest of the NFL world - most noteably his cohorts - see it the same way you do. Champ Bailey, Revis, Deangelo Hall, ie plenty of other corners came out after the NFCCCG and basically said what I have , but for obvious reasons did so in more a more juducious and calculated manner. Just funny how even when I say I have no problem putting the guy near the top you want me to polish the nob on the HOF bust you've already molded for him.

And the common thread amongst all of them is......? Oh yeah, they all are still playing and feel that their longevity and past success ( though in Halls case I'm not sure WHAT the dude is thinking, he has NEVER been a top tier corner, he has been someone who GAMBLES and guesses right sometimes, shouldn't even be MENTIONED in the same breath as the others. Hall isn't a special corner and never has been, think Willie Williams ( or TOAST as I call him) with more size). Revis thinks he's the best, and two years ago he would have been right, he's not any more, that's just the truth of the matter, if he was the Jets, Tampa would NOT have given up on him, and some team would have snatched him up for a hell of a lot longer than a a year or two, Bailey also thinks he's the best, and 7 years ago he also would have been correct, but right now, he is floating in limbo to see if anyone wants to pay him for depth.

Corners HAVE to have that swagger, and NONE will change their opinion on it, once you lose it, it's over.

[c_hawkbob]

Most notably his cohorts?

You mean quite conspicuously only his cohorts, who just happen to be the only people in the NFL universe with a vested interest in his not being the best.

[Futureite]

Again, I did not even say he is 'not' the best corner. This is a perfect example of several people that continue to over-emphasize, take out of context and blow up any post I make so that they can later claim I "lied" or am a "troll".

In the 94' NFC Title game the Cowboys threw RIGHT at Deion late in the game, trailing, to get back in the game. We got bailed out by a terrible offensive PI call on Irvin, or the Cowboys may have 3-peated. So the idea of throwing at Sherman is not the first or last time a team will go after a good or great corner when it counts. He is an excellent player. Roddy fn White also beat him for a big td in a playoff game - and yes, I've heard the excuse for it. Still, other teams with good players have gone at the "best" opposing player in crucial moments of big games and succeeded. Again, the funny part to me is I am the arrogant one hear yet so many people are making the tacit assertion that Crab is so inferior in ability to Sherman that the idea he could win that matchup is just "absurd".

Sherman is so much better than Crab, Roman should be fired for calling that route if he indeed did call it. And I am crazy fir suggesting "maybe" they thought they could win that matchup. If that riles you up, probably best to get use to it. Any decent coach or athlete is competitive, and most WANT to beat the best player in a big moment. It won't be the last time soneone goes at Sherman or even Thomas, where Kap was dumb enough to throw at him for a td. That's what good players do.

[RiverDog]

Again, I did not even say he is 'not' the best corner. This is a perfect example of several people that continue to over-emphasize, take out of context and blow up any post I make so that they can later claim I "lied" or am a "troll".

In the 94' NFC Title game the Cowboys threw RIGHT at Deion late in the game, trailing, to get back in the game. We got bailed out by a terrible offensive PI call on Irvin, or the Cowboys may have 3-peated. So the idea of throwing at Sherman is not the first or last time a team will go after a good or great corner when it counts. He is an excellent player. Roddy fn White also beat him for a big td in a playoff game - and yes, I've heard the excuse for it. Still, other teams with good players have gone at the "best" opposing player in crucial moments of big games and succeeded. Again, the funny part to me is I am the arrogant one hear yet so many people are making the tacit assertion that Crab is so inferior in ability to Sherman that the idea he could win that matchup is just "absurd".

Sherman is so much better than Crab, Roman should be fired for calling that route if he indeed did call it. And I am crazy fir suggesting "maybe" they thought they could win that matchup. If that riles you up, probably best to get use to it. Any decent coach or athlete is competitive, and most WANT to beat the best player in a big moment. It won't be the last time soneone goes at Sherman or even Thomas, where Kap was dumb enough to throw at him for a td. That's what good players do.

Sherman owns Crabtree. It's common knowledge. Read this write up before the NFCCG:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1927 ... t-seahawks

Crabtree, who had a breakout 2012 season that helped propel the 49ers to Super Bowl XLVII, didn't break out at all against the Seahawks. If the 49ers are going to play in Super Bowl XLVIII, he needs to catch more than four passes for 40 yards in the NFC Championship Game.

Standing in his way: All-Pro cornerback Richard Sherman.

Sherman, as charted by Pro Football Focus (subscription required), held Crabtree to just one four-yard catch on two targets when they were matched up on each other.


Or here's another comment:

In Crabtree’s second game back he had four catches for 40 yards in a 19-17 victory over the Seahawks at Candlestick Park. Sherman was called for a holding penalty against Crabtree – one of two penalties Sherman committed in the game.

Crabtree did not have a whole lot of success against Sherman and the Seahawks defense last season, either. In two games, he caught eight passes for 86 yards.

Here's another article that supports the claim that Richard Sherman is the best cornerback in the game. It shows how Sherman intercepts 13.8% of the passes thrown in his direction, a full 4 percentage points ahead of the second ranked DB in that category and over twice as often as the third ranked DB.

http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2014/01/1 ... -own-risk/

You're entitled to your opinion, but the facts are not on your side. I suggest that you quit while you're behind.

[HumanCockroach]

What's the point, he doesn't read them, or acknowledge facts. Not his style, sorry. He has had that stuff provided multiple times over the coarse of the year, he simply switches to his "eyeball" theory to defend his position when he is obviously wrong, the only time facts matter is if they support his position ( which is admittedly seldom).

I can live with ONE fan, and the DB's that don't want to admit they aren't as good as him being the only ones who can't figure it out.

[RiverDog]

What's the point, he doesn't read them, or acknowledge facts. Not his style, sorry. He has had that stuff provided multiple times over the coarse of the year, he simply switches to his "eyeball" theory to defend his position when he is obviously wrong, the only time facts matter is if they support his position ( which is admittedly seldom).

I can live with ONE fan, and the DB's that don't want to admit they aren't as good as him being the only ones who can't figure it out.

Yea, this kind of reminds me of the "Russell Wilson said he deserved ROY" debate last year. I don't think he ever did admit that he was affected by the quite human tendency to hear what he wanted to hear.

Going back in the discussion as I came to it late, here's another statement I don't get:

As for the last throw V Seattle: Not sure if this is accurate, but Kap said they ran a "bunch" on the left side with the specific intention of getting Crab a one on one matchup to throw that fade. According to Tim Hasselbeck and Dilfer, that was the correct read and throw. So, I cannot say for certain that was a bad decision. Seems like consensus is that he made the right decision and the right read, but did not execute the throw.

I didn't hear Hasselbeck and Dilfer comment, but I thought just the opposite. I thought the ball was almost perfectly thrown. Had Kaep thrown it any higher or further, it would have either led Crabtree out of bounds or gone over his head. I'll qualify that by saying that on those types of plays you try to overthrow it slightly, so that your guy is the only one that has a chance to catch it, especially considering it was first down and they had two timeouts in their pocket, so if you want to argue that Kaep didn't slightly overthrow his target like he should have, then I can agree. But it wasn't a poorly thrown ball. Any other corner in the league and it probably goes for 6.

But I don't agree that they had the 'right play' called, at least not for that situation. The one or two occasions that they go after Sherman in the entire game, indeed all our games in the past two years, and they do it with the game and the season on the line? I don't think that's a smart call at all. If they were going to test him, they should have done it earlier in the game and with more field to defend, especially if you subscribe to Future's school of thought that claims Sherman is susceptible deep because he's not all that fast. You don't wait until you're in the red zone in the final minute of the game. When the game and the season is on the line, you go with your best odds play, and it's pretty much a proven fact that the odds are a lot lower when teams throw to Sherman's side of the field.

[Futureite]

Actually I had a full one paragraph response to you Kalibane. You know what is hillarious? I stated the exact same thing you did! Lol! That you don't even bother to read. Or when you do, you are planning your rebuttal; so in sybstance, you are not really reading at all. You are a very intelligent guy, but you have major hubris. So your intelligence is conpletel wasted. I decided to delete that re:, because what's the point. You'll just misquote me anyway.

I was at the Thursday Night game in 2012. With my own two eyes, I watched Kyle Williams run right past Ruchard Sherman. Beaten by a good 5 yds and only an airmailed Alex Smith pass saved him. I didn't even know who this loudmouth jackass was at the time, and I turned to my friend at least 3 times and said "how in the hell is that not holding?" Yes, I use the FN eye test. I saw him hold and get beat.

If you were not so full of yourself you would consider that the guy he supposedly dominstes played him once with King checkdown throwing to him and twice no more than 2 months after returning from achilles surgery. Crab only had ONE hundred yd game after returning, as opposed to the 6 or 7 he had the yr prior - nearly all of which came with Kap. So I guess every other team "owns" him in 2013, eh? You never think that deep. Ever. You are far, far too sure of yourself.

I just find it funny how cocksure you guys are, acting like I am in some sort of state of denial by stating he's top 3. Not good enough. No, he's a first ballot guy. A guy you never even look to throw at. And some of you are actually convinced that the rest of the NFL and everyone other than me believes it.

Uh, how many times did he get called for holding december 8th when he was BEAT? Cmon stat boy, I know you know the answer.

[kalibane]

Just sad. You've been pummeled and completely owned in this thread Future. And yet you're still throwing s*** at the wall hoping something sticks.

See now you want to argue using the "eye test" (one of your favorite fall back positions). The problem with eye test in general is no one can define what it means and it's completely subjective. The problem with your eye test specfiically is I've caught you more than one time saying you saw something that definitively never actually happened. This makes you either a liar or your eyesight is somewhere on the legally blind scale. Either way anything you claim to have seen cannot be trusted.

[Futureite]

Just sad. You've been pummeled and completely owned in this thread Future. And yet you're still throwing s*** at the wall hoping something sticks.

See now you want to argue using the "eye test" (one of your favorite fall back positions). The problem with eye test in general is no one can define what it means and it's completely subjective. The problem with your eye test specfiically is I've caught you more than one time saying you saw something that definitively never actually happened. This makes you either a liar or your eyesight is somewhere on the legally blind scale. Either way anything you claim to have seen cannot be trusted.

You are the cockiest person I've ever engaged with on any board. By far. An insult with every comment. You've caught me on nothing. I stated I wasn't sure if Sherman covered Crab in 2011 when I made the post, and you quoted me as lying and then stated Browner covered him. You then twisted Boldin's jump ball catch to be something other than it was to further frame me as a lier, having reduced my examples from 1 to 3. Finally, you diminished that last (or 3rd) example by stating that it occured in garbage time, yet you gave no weight to the countless examole of garbage time INTs Sherman has made. This, in your mind, is "destroying" me. Like I said, you're all smoke and mirrors.

And let's not forget; my initial assertion was only that possibly - maybe - Roman tbought he could win a one one one matchup with Sherman in that situation. I backed that theory up with the 3 examples, one of which I conceded upfront I was unsure of. I further backed it with an example of the Cowboys intentionally throwing at the best corner of all-time to support the fact that the premise is not unheard of. . . .BUT YOU DON'T READ.

You don't read because you believe you're more intelligent than everyone in this board. Never saud they planned to pick on Sherman. Never said he is not one of if not "the best". I only pointed out that a legitimste pribowl level receuver matched uo V him may have been worth a shot in the right d formation.

By the way, the answer is 2. 2 PI calls December 8th on the guy that is so good he never needs to hold. Verified it on PFF for you. My eyes saw him beat like FN drum on one of them.

[kalibane]

Also, people forget that Crab has beaten Sherm on that exact same route several times. Maybe that's what they were thinking?

I don't think I'm more intelligent than anyone on the board. But I am intelligent enough to remember what you said and I know my team well enough to spot when someone is saying something about them that is false.

Boldin also never caught a fade on Sherman. Like I said, I didn't say Sherman can't be beaten I said it's dumb to try and beat him on a fade/outside shoulder sideline play. You can keep trying to spin things all you want but you chose the words "exact same pattern" then failed to produce any examples of Sherman being beaten on "the exact same pattern". To this point I'm the only one who cited possibly one example (Vernon Davis).

Then you also started talking about guys like Rod Woodson and Darrell Green following the best WR around which again NEVER happened.

It's not my fault that you don't know what you are talking about Future. I'm just pointing it out. Perhaps in the future you should know what you're talking about before you start spouting off at the mouth.

[c_hawkbob]

Nothing you've said is being taken out of context. The context is Richard Sherman and Michael Crabtree. What other context are you seeing? You're just wrong and unable to own up to it.