Ukraine

[RiverDog]

So what's your solution, we go to war with Russia?

I don't have a solution, at least not now. The problem is that we don't have as our POTUS a leader that projects a strong image that would cause our adversaries to have doubts about what we might do should they invade another country. If we had someone like Reagan or Bush in there, they wouldn't have dared cross the line because they don't know what our reaction might be. But with Biden or just about any other Dem, Putin knows with 100% assurance that we won't do anything, and like any other totalitarian leader, he doesn't give a chit about sanctions. He knew that we'd impose sanctions, but he invaded anyway.

[RiverDog]

River Putin is threatening to use Nukes with those words .I saw a few posts back where you asked how I sleep at night . Restless right now . In prayer. I caught so much crap for going ballistic over Trumps strange relationship , his praise of Putin even killing opponents “ we have lots of killers too” his attacks on nato , his whitewashing of Crimea . And they didn’t start challenging us on Jan 20 of last year . Throughout the Trump adminstration they ramped up air incursions with nuke capable bombers to levels not seen since the Cold War . They have been building Nukes and nuke subs and mobile launch systems that violate international agreements non stop for 20 years and now they have a missile nobody can intercept . Their troop exercises and particularly surfacing 3 subs at once just north of Alaska are like , why are they practicing that with a psychotic ruthless short syndrome madman?.

They might hack our infrastructure . Anything is possible . Im stockpiling some water and canned goods. Propane . Locked and loaded. Hopefully it’s another delusional moment but I’ve felt like I might see the end of the age in my lifetime since I was a kid . It’s a burden . Hopefully we’re laughing about it someday . My plan is to tell everyone in my life how much I love and appreciate them every chance I get and live my life to the fullest . Very dangerous times .

He's threatening to use nukes if we attempt to prevent his takeover of Ukraine, but there is zero chance that we'll lift a finger to oppose him other than impose some meaningless sanctions. That's why he's even making the threat, because he knows that Biden won't call his bluff.

I don't think you have to worry about their invading the US or other countries in Western Europe as he knows that he would be crossing the line and that even a weakling like Biden would have to respond.

As I said earlier, it's my belief that Putin wouldn't have done this if Trump were in office, not because he was afraid of a military response, but because he and Trump drink out of the same bottle and sleep with the same women and he would not have wanted to put his buddy in a bad position politically. IMO it's no coincidence that he's doing this now instead of earlier when the Orange Baboon was our POTUS.

[Aseahawkfan]

We need to prepare for war with Russia and China as though both are very real possibilities. At what point when you have Vladimir Putin as the role-model for future Russian Leaders do you stop them? You also have a Chinese Communist Party doing the Belt and Road initiative, building islands in the South China Sea, telling Taiwan they are part of China. You going to wait for China to do like Russia with Ukraine and take Taiwan and control of the chip supply?

America cannot be asleep any longer. We need to start electing war leaders again to prepare for what appears to be the eventuality of war with two other mega countries who clearly want to control the world and put it in a dark place.

China is united. Russia appears united. Both under their leaders, why Russia and China look across the sea at a divided, polarized America, weak, emasculated, and filled with fat, pathetic Americans unwilling and unable to do anything to stop them.

We had a chance to push Russia out of Syria, but Trump pulled us out of that. Now we have Russia taking Ukraine using their military after taking Crimea and Georgia in 2008.

The more we show weakness, the more emboldened other powerful nations become thinking we will do nothing worthwhile to oppose them.

[Hawktawk]

We need to prepare for war with Russia and China as though both are very real possibilities. At what point when you have Vladimir Putin as the role-model for future Russian Leaders do you stop them? You also have a Chinese Communist Party doing the Belt and Road initiative, building islands in the South China Sea, telling Taiwan they are part of China. You going to wait for China to do like Russia with Ukraine and take Taiwan and control of the chip supply?

America cannot be asleep any longer. We need to start electing war leaders again to prepare for what appears to be the eventuality of war with two other mega countries who clearly want to control the world and put it in a dark place.

China is united. Russia appears united. Both under their leaders, why Russia and China look across the sea at a divided, polarized America, weak, emasculated, and filled with fat, pathetic Americans unwilling and unable to do anything to stop them.

We had a chance to push Russia out of Syria, but Trump pulled us out of that. Now we have Russia taking Ukraine using their military after taking Crimea and Georgia in 2008.

The more we show weakness, the more emboldened other powerful nations become thinking we will do nothing worthwhile to oppose them.

I completely agree Asea . All bets are off. And can we please stop saying Putin was going to wait around another 3 years if Trumps in office while we catch up on hypersonic technology or figure out how to intercept it . Putin has never made an effort to build a ground force to compete with us . Just weak states . He’s using nuclear blackmail right now . Time to smell the coffee .

[Hawktawk]

I specifically recall Putin calling a press conference a few years ago to announce the rollout of the “Satan 2” missile a single payload can take out Texas . The presentation was accompanied by a video simulation of a warhead landing on Mara Lago. Not one peep out of the adminstration . It’s been the elephant in the living room for at least the 13 years since GW left office with risk averse strategies and a lack of understanding the evil of our adversary . He’s hitler with nukes .

[RiverDog]

We need to prepare for war with Russia and China as though both are very real possibilities. At what point when you have Vladimir Putin as the role-model for future Russian Leaders do you stop them? You also have a Chinese Communist Party doing the Belt and Road initiative, building islands in the South China Sea, telling Taiwan they are part of China. You going to wait for China to do like Russia with Ukraine and take Taiwan and control of the chip supply?

America cannot be asleep any longer. We need to start electing war leaders again to prepare for what appears to be the eventuality of war with two other mega countries who clearly want to control the world and put it in a dark place.

China is united. Russia appears united. Both under their leaders, why Russia and China look across the sea at a divided, polarized America, weak, emasculated, and filled with fat, pathetic Americans unwilling and unable to do anything to stop them.

We had a chance to push Russia out of Syria, but Trump pulled us out of that. Now we have Russia taking Ukraine using their military after taking Crimea and Georgia in 2008.

The more we show weakness, the more emboldened other powerful nations become thinking we will do nothing worthwhile to oppose them.

I agree completely. Time to rachet up our defenses.

But at this point, I don't advocate confronting the Russians over Ukraine unless we get a full commitment from NATO and their countries participate heavily. I do not want us to act unilaterally like we did in Iraq.

[Stream Hawk]

A lot of tough words here. But calling Biden weak is a little harsh. Would you rather him be a total a hole/puppet to Putin? His sanctions will completely cripple that Russia. So if not going to war is agreed-upon what the hell else is he supposed to do?

[RiverDog]

A lot of tough words here. But calling Biden weak is a little harsh. Would you rather him be a total a hole/puppet to Putin? His sanctions will completely cripple that Russia. So if not going to war is agreed-upon what the hell else is he supposed to do?

The problem isn't just Biden, it's the fact that nearly all Democrats are perceived by our adversaries as being weak. It's a high stakes poker game, and Biden does not have a poker face that can cause an opponent to fold.

At this point, there's not much that Biden can do. The genie is out of the bottle.

[Aseahawkfan]

A lot of tough words here. But calling Biden weak is a little harsh. Would you rather him be a total a hole/puppet to Putin? His sanctions will completely cripple that Russia. So if not going to war is agreed-upon what the hell else is he supposed to do?

The Democrats are weak. Putin didn't care about sanctions when he took Crimea under Obama. He doesn't care now. He looked across the ocean at an America led by Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and said, "They can't stop me. They are weak and pathetic. We will take what we want. They will do nothing to stop us."

Putin knew we were stretched too thin when he took Georgia under Bush Jr. in 2008 already fighting two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Biden is a weak president. The last president that commanded the respect of the world and country was Reagan. The last president to use American military power to make sure a foreign power respect us was George Bush Jr. He overthrew two foreign regimes and at the very least made sure the world knew that a foreign attack on our soil even by terrorists would invite severe retaliation.

So stop pretending sanctions matter to men like Putin or Xi or Kim Jong Un. They don't care about economic sanctions or tariffs or any of the economic garbage. They laugh at that garbage and know they are coming well-prepared to deal with them.

We need to build up military power and ensure we are ready as the shield and army of the free world. No more of this pretend economic sanctions that don't work. We need to ensure we are ready and willing to oppose this kind of militaristic expansion.

Wake up. Wake the hell up for once in your life. There are wolves in the world still and we cannot be sheep while they hunt and take what they want. These modern sheep politicians like Biden and Trump need to go. We need a war leader in America, a respected statesman like we had in the past who lived by the axiom, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." We need to find that leader and put them in office to get America back on the right track. Not leaders who want to appease everyone or tear the country apart for their personal ego trip. A real American leader with a vision for the betterment of the nation and a desire to restore our position in the world.

[Stream Hawk]

Please don’t call Democrats weak. If you want to go there, then Republicans are a complete s*** show. I mean, the GQP? Our country is perceived as weak due to its complete division. TFG statements glorifying Putin are being broadcast throughout Russia today. Embarrassing.
Regardless, the EU and NATO are still stronger than Russia and China. At least Biden is willing to join the good guys.

[Stream Hawk]

And your rhetoric is terrifying, Asea. We are not going to be a war state. It’s like you are falling into Putin’s trap.

[RiverDog]

Please don’t call Democrats weak. If you want to go there, then Republicans are a complete s*** show. I mean, the GQP? Our country is perceived as weak due to its complete division. TFG statements glorifying Putin are being broadcast throughout Russia today. Embarrassing.
Regardless, the EU and NATO are still stronger than Russia and China. At least Biden is willing to join the good guys.

I am no friend of today's Republican party. In 2016, I voted for Gary Johnson, and in 2020, voted for Joe Biden. They are no longer the party of Lincoln. They have devolved from a party that could accommodate a person like myself, a fiscal conservatives and social moderate, into some sort of cult, a pack of loonies. My first litmus test of any Republican candidate for any elective office will be "Do you support Donald Trump?"

I agree with your statement. My point is that we got here because Democrats in general and Biden specifically are perceived by everyone, including our adversaries, as being weak. It could be that Reagan, Bush, McCain, Romney, et al would have acted just as Biden has, but the difference is that Biden does not create the same sense of fear and uncertainty that the aforementioned Republicans do.

You're right about the rest of the world sensing our division. It used to be that once the bullets started flying, everyone dropped their political allegiances and rallied to the flag, ie who ever happened to be sitting in the Oval Office. Divide and conquer.

[c_hawkbob]

And your rhetoric is terrifying, Asea. We are not going to be a war state. It’s like you are falling into Putin’s trap.

I wouldn't fret a great deal about the political banter in this forum Stream, it's not exactly a balanced panel. With a couple exceptions it's populated with some fairly far right conservatives, most of whom have spent the previous administration rightfully recognizing one of there own as a pox on both their beloved party and the country (which actually speaks well of them for the most part) and now they're letting loose on Democrat in the oval office again.

I for one agree with you and find an alternative viewpoint here refreshing. Vive la difference.

[Aseahawkfan]

I bet the entire United States nuclear arsenal is on high alert to be ready to fire if Putin really loses his mind. He literally threatened anyone who attacks Ukraine with nuclear retaliation. He thinks we won't respond? He knows we will. He's probably hiding in some bunker in case he has to give the order to fire.

[Aseahawkfan]

Please don’t call Democrats weak. If you want to go there, then Republicans are a complete s*** show. I mean, the GQP? Our country is perceived as weak due to its complete division. TFG statements glorifying Putin are being broadcast throughout Russia today. Embarrassing.
Regardless, the EU and NATO are still stronger than Russia and China. At least Biden is willing to join the good guys.

The Republicans are a complete s**tshow. Trump is pathetic. I don't consider him a real Republican. I hate that piece of trash. I will never vote for him. Lying bastard who praises dictators robbing other nations of their freedom and uses it to politically attack Biden during this time. Not a word out of his mouth condemning this invasion and that piece of human garbage Tucker Carlson parroting his lord's agenda. The Republican Party died when they gave their allegiance to Trump. Unless some of these still living old school Republicans step up soon, we might have a guy back in the White House who treats Putin like he's a "genius" and a great friend.

I hope the Democrats wake up to how bad their party is right now. They are not Kennedy Democrats any more. Clinton was probably the last sort of Kennedy Democrat. Now they are the party of social issues over nation, cancel culture, defunding the police, race over national identity, and pushing an agenda so toxic to this nation that Americans voted in a scumbag like Trump just to stop them.

Why are so many people backing Trump? Because the Democratic Party has become so far left and utterly debased that supporting them feels like tearing the country down. So now we're in this terribly divided situation because neither of the major parties can produce a leader worth a damn.

Americans have got to find new leadership in these parties. This is not working. These parties don't have any vision for America worth supporting by the majority of the nation. It's just a giant, divisive, dirty fight between them.

Trump insulting anyone in his own party who disagrees with them including lifelong serving generals like Jim Mattis, Mark Milley, and Kelly. When is the last Republican president who insulted military leaders that served their nation most of their lives and put their lives on the line? I have never seen this. Trump is not a real Republican. He's a svengali infestation that has done nothing but cause mean-spirited, low lives to flock to the Republican Party and get voted into office because the Republican Party has completely lose their way.

Hilary torpedoing Berne Sanders in the primaries.

Biden being picked because he was the most palatable candidate and a throwback to Obama who at least made you feel like America had a leader who cared about putting on a good face.

American political leadership is the worst I've ever seen it.

[Stream Hawk]

Thanks River and Bob,
So yeah I’ve tried to stay away from politics since the 2020 election. Occasionally I dabble. Now this craziness going on in Europe is terrifying.

I appreciate what that G.W. Bush, Romney, and the former dem presidents are all rallying together. McCain would too. Trump glorifying his own traitorhood is just too much.

[Stream Hawk]

Good post, Asea. Completely agree that our country’s leadership is a big problem too. For all parties, it’s simply not working. And the historic-level obsessive division just makes us even more pathetic.

My twin bro’s (ironically) an MGySgt in the Marines. He went to war with Maddis. Trump over crossed the line there, too. What a joke of a former pres. Also a joke that he has that insane army following his lead.

[RiverDog]

Thanks River and Bob,
So yeah I’ve tried to stay away from politics since the 2020 election. Occasionally I dabble. Now this craziness going on in Europe is terrifying.

I appreciate what that G.W. Bush, Romney, and the former dem presidents are all rallying together. McCain would too. Trump glorifying his own traitorhood is just too much.

I do the same thing as you do regarding political discussions. Even with my closest of friends, a good rule of thumb is to adhere to the 3 taboos that one doesn't talk about on a first date: Sex, religion, and politics.

It's a long story and I'll try to give the condensed version. My chosen career was line supervision in a food processing environment in facilities that employed around 500 and ran 24/7. As a young supervisor fresh out of college, I made my feelings about what we should do regarding the Iran hostage crisis, ie convert Tehran into the world's largest parking lot, quite public. Years later, an Iranian immigrant, who was a very good worker, told me that he almost did not come to me to request a leave of absence to bring his fiancée to the United States because of what I had said about Iran. I realized then that my expression of my politics could make me less approachable, so I learned not to talk about it even to my closest friends and certainly no one at work. The closest I got was in 2016 when I had several workers asking me who I was going to vote for. All I told them is that I wasn't voting for Trump because I did not want them to even suspect that I was the type of person typical of a pro Trump supporter. I've been retired for nearly 4 years now, but I still don't discuss politics with hardly anyone. Old habits are hard to break.

I like discussing politics here as it's a tight group and relatively anonymous, yet we all know one another. This is my refuge, and I'm delighted you've decided to enter the arena.

What Carter, Clinton, Bush, and Obama are doing is what former Presidents have done and should be doing once the bullets start flying. Trump's response is despicable, but it doesn't surprise me one little bit. He's very selfish, thinks portraying Biden as the bad guy will help him if he decides to run in 2024.

[Hawktawk]

I bet the entire United States nuclear arsenal is on high alert to be ready to fire if Putin really loses his mind. He literally threatened anyone who attacks Ukraine with nuclear retaliation. He thinks we won't respond? He knows we will. He's probably hiding in some bunker in case he has to give the order to fire.

We have no hypersonic technology . They do . Our billion dollars in interceptors are worthless as these travel about 11 miles per second . They could potentially sink every carrier we have if they chose to at which point we might be forced into using nukes .

Putin’s statements shared by RD are chilling , clearly a flat out threat of hypersonic missile attack . His military chief said a few weeks ago during the buildup that “ we will reduce America to smoldering ruins “ . Pretty clear . So we launch and their missile batteries knock out a large portion of our missiles and they launch and they all hit the target .mutual assured destruction is no longer the case in my untrained opinion . I don’t think Putin thinks so either . He’s nuts , he fears no one and he’s got a doomsday plane with command and control he flies around in quite a bit as reported by British journalists . He doesn’t “ have “ to use them . He doesn’t have to invade Ukraine either . But weak or strong we can’t assume we can do whatever we want with cyber expionage against Russian infrastructure . I think Putin is looking for any excuse to launch on us .

[RiverDog]

We have no hypersonic technology . They do . Our billion dollars in interceptors are worthless as these travel about 11 miles per second . They could potentially sink every carrier we have if they chose to at which point we might be forced into using nukes.

Putin’s statements shared by RD are chilling , clearly a flat out threat of hypersonic missile attack . His military chief said a few weeks ago during the buildup that “ we will reduce America to smoldering ruins “ . Pretty clear . So we launch and their missile batteries knock out a large portion of our missiles and they launch and they all hit the target .mutual assured destruction is no longer the case in my untrained opinion . I don’t think Putin thinks so either . He’s nuts , he fears no one and he’s got a doomsday plane with command and control he flies around in quite a bit as reported by British journalists . He doesn’t “ have “ to use them . He doesn’t have to invade Ukraine either . But weak or strong we can’t assume we can do whatever we want with cyber expionage against Russian infrastructure . I think Putin is looking for any excuse to launch on us .

And if they did, they'd be signing their own death warrants. They would not be able to stop our SLBM's and radar evading cruise missiles. They do not have the defensive system to even come close to dealing with what could come their way in an all out war. It's called Mutually Assured Destruction, MAD, and it's a formula that has kept the peace since the end of World War II.

Except for the economic repercussions, which are huge and shouldn't be trivialized, this is mainly a European war. If enough of the European countries want to oppose him, I would support a military response in concert with the Europeans. But it doesn't sound like they have the stomach for it.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Now Russia is calling for talks with Ukraine but requiring they stand down. Ukrainian President said he’s willing to negotiate Ukraine’s stance on joining NATO. I am not optimistic, but I wonder if this was all a power play (a deadly and expensive one at that) by Putin to get Ukraine back in line.

[RiverDog]

It would be interesting to know just how large and widespread the protests within Russia that are being reported really are. If there is enough of a civil rebellion, it might cause Putin to back down.

There's also the possibility of a coup, if there's enough in the military that object to the action that Putin is taking. That's the one thing that a leader like Putin would fear.

[tarlhawk]

This is a dangerous civil war type world event that unfortunately lost its chance to be resolved peaceably. Our own country had no real opportunity for diplomacy since our administration has attacked Putin on the world stage before and after our currently elected President. I mention it as a civil war type conflict because its historical roots are founded in conflict. The election of their current president in 2019 only escalated the conflict as he has been a strong vocal voice against Russian affairs.

Yes the Ukraine is a sovereign nation under attack by an "outside" aggressor...but the nature of the conflict is steeped in Russian culture. An attack on Poland would have been quite a different world conflict. As a world we (as in the UN) cannot stand strongly on the grounds of responding to an attack on a sovereign nation because this type of conflict under UN aggression occurred as recently as the attack on Libya to remove Khaddafi...an evil violent man was removed yes...but imposing a peace keeping force in a war scenario (ordering Libya to be a "no fly zone") then attacking their military (tanks) under the enforcement of a no-fly zone...what constitutes a sovereign nation?

A similar (in theory) hypothetical would be a scenario where Texas became "fed up" with our federal response to border control and convinced Nevada and New Mexico to break off from the US as a whole. Texas elects an anti-USA type "president" and accepts a Russian "offer" to provide military aid to protect Texas and its "allies" from a US military response (to bring the rogue states back into the US). Before Russia had the opportunity to put missles once more on our borders...would we as a country mount a military option to take Texas back... to keep this scenario from happening?

I view war on any level of conflict as tragic and hold out hope that such conflicts could be resolved in a peaceable manner before such heart sick events unfold. These surgical air strikes minimize casualties on both sides...but occupation involves ground troops and armor support...which is where the true tragedy of war takes its toll in casualties ...and the horrors of war burn into lifetime memories.

[Hawktawk]

It would be interesting to know just how large and widespread the protests within Russia that are being reported really are. If there is enough of a civil rebellion, it might cause Putin to back down.

There's also the possibility of a coup, if there's enough in the military that object to the action that Putin is taking. That's the one thing that a leader like Putin would fear.

Reading reports off the Drudge site Russia has lost almost 3 k troops . Ukraine has currently retaken the Kiev Airport . Protests in Russia are quite large according to reports . There is a “ diplomatic “ effort to convince Ukraine to lay down arms and declare itself a neutral country . Basically bow down .
If they do get ready for Putin to blitz through the former Soviet states. When he hits NATO states America has to decide if they want nuclear war or live under Russian control . I don’t believe MADD exists anymore . As Putin said in his chilling a d dead serious comments “ we have some advantages with our weapons “ I read an analysis from awhile back , maybe 6 months with a military assessment that Russia could eliminate 80 % of America’s nuclear deterrent in a first strike . And if a strike happens it will be them going first , they have already threatened it . As for America’s alert level I listened to my sons phone call with a navy buddy stationed in the pacific with a carrier group . He’s on leave and there are no special drills or heightened alerts at all. So we look as ready as I think we are . I agree the best thing that could happen is someone popping Putin right between the eyes .

[Aseahawkfan]

We have no hypersonic technology . They do . Our billion dollars in interceptors are worthless as these travel about 11 miles per second . They could potentially sink every carrier we have if they chose to at which point we might be forced into using nukes .

Putin’s statements shared by RD are chilling , clearly a flat out threat of hypersonic missile attack . His military chief said a few weeks ago during the buildup that “ we will reduce America to smoldering ruins “ . Pretty clear . So we launch and their missile batteries knock out a large portion of our missiles and they launch and they all hit the target .mutual assured destruction is no longer the case in my untrained opinion . I don’t think Putin thinks so either . He’s nuts , he fears no one and he’s got a doomsday plane with command and control he flies around in quite a bit as reported by British journalists . He doesn’t “ have “ to use them . He doesn’t have to invade Ukraine either . But weak or strong we can’t assume we can do whatever we want with cyber expionage against Russian infrastructure . I think Putin is looking for any excuse to launch on us .

I personally would not bet on that myself. I would be extremely surprised if America has weapons that would make Putin and the rest of the world go, "When did they get that?" We have weapons I did not even realize we had and have been building things that people don't even know about.

American intelligence was right that Putin would invade Ukraine. We have weapon systems that will pay Russia back many times over if they fire on us. I have no doubt of that.

Our presidents may suck, but our military-industrial complex is strong. None of these wealthy, powerful behind the scenes power people want America to lose to Russia. If Russia pushes things too far or China for that matter, they will get more than they can handle. We have never lost a war when it came to an actual battle. Even in Vietnam our military won the Tet Offensive as in beat the North Vietnamese military, but lost the war at home to keep fighting. Until someone beats us on the field of battle, I will never doubt the United States military, especially when defending their home.

We were born in a war and a revolution. We have a fought a war every decade we have existed. Americans for some reason don't think of themselves as warriors, but we are a warrior culture. A modern warrior culture, but a warrior culture nonetheless. We will never give or lose as long as Americans are alive. You can bank on that.

[RiverDog]

We have no hypersonic technology . They do . Our billion dollars in interceptors are worthless as these travel about 11 miles per second . They could potentially sink every carrier we have if they chose to at which point we might be forced into using nukes .

Putin’s statements shared by RD are chilling , clearly a flat out threat of hypersonic missile attack . His military chief said a few weeks ago during the buildup that “ we will reduce America to smoldering ruins “ . Pretty clear . So we launch and their missile batteries knock out a large portion of our missiles and they launch and they all hit the target .mutual assured destruction is no longer the case in my untrained opinion . I don’t think Putin thinks so either . He’s nuts , he fears no one and he’s got a doomsday plane with command and control he flies around in quite a bit as reported by British journalists . He doesn’t “ have “ to use them . He doesn’t have to invade Ukraine either . But weak or strong we can’t assume we can do whatever we want with cyber expionage against Russian infrastructure . I think Putin is looking for any excuse to launch on us .

I personally would not bet on that myself. I would be extremely surprised if America has (doesn't have?) weapons that would make Putin and the rest of the world go, "When did they get that?" We have weapons I did not even realize we had and have been building things that people don't even know about.

American intelligence was right that Putin would invade Ukraine. We have weapon systems that will pay Russia back many times over if they fire on us. I have no doubt of that.

Our presidents may suck, but our military-industrial complex is strong. None of these wealthy, powerful behind the scenes power people want America to lose to Russia. If Russia pushes things too far or China for that matter, they will get more than they can handle. We have never lost a war when it came to an actual battle. Even in Vietnam our military won the Tet Offensive as in beat the North Vietnamese military, but lost the war at home to keep fighting. Until someone beats us on the field of battle, I will never doubt the United States military, especially when defending their home.

I tend to agree with that statement. Here in the Tri Cities, we have a national research laboratory, PNNL, and I used to play racquetball with a couple of guys, both former military officers, that worked for the 'black' division. They obviously didn't tell me what they were working on, but they indicated that there is a very robust military research program unknown to the public, and not just drawing board stuff. I have no doubt that we have a very large technological superiority over Russia.

[Aseahawkfan]

Remember when Hugo Chavez was saying the United States gave him cancer. I thought he was full of crap until I saw this.

There has been a lot of design work with microwave weapons. So we and other nations with microwave weapons might be able to give someone cancer from range with pro-longed use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlmf032NmHU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHbM20cWE_0

Apparently these microwave weapons are in use by our enemies as well. There are so many weapons we don't even know about that it would not at all surprise me if the United States pulls out some crazy stuff if needed.

Here is a rail gun prototype as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58MmOpSm4LY

Have no illusions. That huge United States military budget is spent on weaponry the human race shouldn't even have, but keeps us ahead or equal to our enemies by a good measure.

[Hawktawk]

I hope it’s true but fact is they have hypersonic weapons which at least what is known we have no way to intercept or jam . I sure hope we have stuff nobody knows about . But we do not have hypersonic missiles . It’s the analysis of every expert . China is leaning towards Russia some and they have even more sophisticated hypersonic technology including a glider that circles the globe and is steerable to score a direct hit . They tested one a few months ago that was able to launch a secondary projectile at over 11 miles per second which the analysts said strained the limits of physics . I think everyone understands that many millions of people would die all over the world in a nuclear winter assuming they weren’t dead already . But it doesn’t matter if one is winnable or not . It matters if someone crazy enough to think it is has the ability to launch …………I’m worried that’s who he is . He looked in the camera and told the world he would nuke them if they got in the way .he didn’t bat an eye . Hopefully we can all laugh about it when he’s jailed and executed by his own people . As long as this guy has the red phone the world is in peril .

[RiverDog]

Honestly, Hawktalk, you need to quit worrying about it. Even if your suspicions are true, there's not a damn thing any of us can do about it, so there's no sense getting all hyped up about it.

At some point, I do think that cooler heads will prevail. Call it a blind, misguided faith, but I don't think this is the beginning of WW3. The thing that Putin, or any leader of a totalitarian regime, worries about is maintaining his power. In this day and age of communications, I have to think that the Russian military would turn on him if he went mad and started pushing buttons. Even the Chinese would oppose him if he were to go completely off the rails. They have as much interest in the economic health of the world as anyone else.

But short term, it's causing havoc in the stock market and the world economy. These sanctions are going to hurt us as much as they're going to hurt the Russians. Inflation was already a big problem before the crisis. This is going to make it even worse.

[Hawktawk]

Honestly, Hawktalk, you need to quit worrying about it. Even if your suspicions are true, there's not a damn thing any of us can do about it, so there's no sense getting all hyped up about it.

At some point, I do think that cooler heads will prevail. Call it a blind, misguided faith, but I don't think this is the beginning of WW3. The thing that Putin, or any leader of a totalitarian regime, worries about is maintaining his power. In this day and age of communications, I have to think that the Russian military would turn on him if he went mad and started pushing buttons. Even the Chinese would oppose him if he were to go completely off the rails. They have as much interest in the economic health of the world as anyone else.

But short term, it's causing havoc in the stock market and the world economy. These sanctions are going to hurt us as much as they're going to hurt the Russians. Inflation was already a big problem before the crisis. This is going to make it even worse.

I'm alert. Antennae up. I've made some preparations for at least a period of survival without infrastructure, generator, propane, water and non perishable foods. I bought extra bullets for the only gun i own which is a Remington 300 model semi auto 30-06 cannon.
I'm not hiding under the bed River but I'm no ostrich either. I'm doing what I can, Thinking about places I could go with my family to escape the force of a nuclear blast. I know of an abandoned house in the country 50 miles away that has a cellar. I grew up in it. Tunnels and caves in the rocks around the area I grew up in. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Russia in the last few years has conducted an emergency preparedness drill involving over 40 million citizens. They were practicing mass burials a couple weeks ago. They have enough shelters in Moscow to house all 12 million residents. How many do we have in Seattle? LA?
As a nation we are as asleep as the sailors at pearl harbor. And we have a daft semi senile President that I dont have faith has the resolve or spine to pull the trigger if that awful moment comes. My concern is that he would be in denial if Afghanistan is a clue. Minutes, seconds are critical,

In the last 24 hours Putin has warned Finland and Sweden there will be "economic and MILITARY consequences if they attempt to join NATO". These were never eastern bloc properties. Hes Hitler with Nukes. As for China they are moving more and more firmly towards Russia . Also China has reached out to NK and said a partnership is essential in the "new situation". I couldn't believe the reporter speculated on what that might mean any more than when they speculated on what Putin meant. Both Russia and China were keeping the little sawed off dictator somewhat in line. I believe he has between 25 and 50 nukes and a delivery system to hit America.

I dont think its nearly over although the Ukrainians are putting up a hell of a fight and hopefully Putin will want to declare victory and cut his losses. Although Russian troops have already pushed into other countries in the former eastern block including one that I believe has a number of US troops deployed. I read it last night , dont remember which one. Putin's former President Medvedev said yesterday "we no longer need a dialogue with the west" Lets padlock the embassies and go back to looking at each other through binoculars and the barrel of a gun". He said the "wonderful sanctions" wont stop them at all.

As I've said I believe we are in nuclear blackmail right now as our paralyzed response as an alliance shows, we're just in denial. Weve been threatened with first use for the first time in the history of the world and as you say there's nothing we can really do except hope it doesn't happen. If spoken with trumpanzees that suggest we should launch first. That's where we are as a nation mind set wise. Doves or Hawks .


I'm really not quaking in fear, I actually feel more alive than I have in a while, telling everyone in my family and circle I love them every chance I get, savor every moment. Last night my wife and I threw on some Great White and danced like we did 30 years ago.
Hopefully I'm as wrong about WW III and potential nukes as I am right about Penney and Geno Ill take the opportunity to say this forum has been a part of my life for over 2 decades and I really appreciate the companionship and the safety valve to vent after a Seahawks meltdown or rail on some ass hat politician (all of them). Some of you and I have been bantering for 20 years. Love my shackers. River i hope we do meet up someday and have a laugh. I'm not as loony in person as I am on line Ok I'm bailing off this thread till something new happens, hopefully a coup. Gonna do some writing on my manuscript.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... vi-AAUjMsF

Reports Putin is possible seriously ill within this short video. Die already you evil POS.

[RiverDog]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/putin-remains-isolated-raising-concerns-he-s-seriously-ill/vi-AAUjMsF

Reports Putin is possible seriously ill within this short video. Die already you evil POS.

Apparently, he has cancer and is showing signs of Parkinson's disease:

https://meaww.com/putin-battling-cancer ... urce-claim

We don't know who we would get as a replacement if he were to die. It could be one of those "be careful what you wish for, you might get it!", jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

[Hawktawk]

Frankly it makes the situation even scarier. hes got a bucket list hes been telling us about for 20 years. Nobody worse than him is in the wings. It cant get worse than nuclear blackmail unless its war.

[RiverDog]

Frankly it makes the situation even scarier. hes got a bucket list hes been telling us about for 20 years. Nobody worse than him is in the wings. It cant get worse than nuclear blackmail unless its war.

He has to have some ardent supporters or else he would have been removed long ago. I wouldn't want to make the assumption that he's the absolute worst possible leader in a country of some 150M people.

However, at this point, I would tend to agree with you that I would rather have him kick the bucket and take our chances with his replacement. My point is that it's not a slam dunk that we're going to end up with a modern day Mikhail Gorbachev as his replacement.

[Hawktawk]

Ukraine is putting up a hell of a fight . Russia has suffered almost 4 k deaths now and has not completely secured a single major objective . I’ve seen footage of an entire tank column in total ruin with smoldering Russian bodies . Ukraine has shot down a massive troop transport plane full of hundreds of Russian soldiers . Beyond that Ukraine recently conducted a strike on a Russian base .

So they are no longer simply being in defense mode . Zelenski and the former president have been videotaped in public exhorting their citizens to fight . Zekenski has refused an offer from the US to evacuate he and his family . Putin has reportedly issued a directive to mobilize every available medical resource for a major medical emergency . Who knows what that means .I don’t know if it’s WWIII but it’s fascinating to watch it unfold .

[Aseahawkfan]

He has to have some ardent supporters or else he would have been removed long ago. I wouldn't want to make the assumption that he's the absolute worst possible leader in a country of some 150M people.

However, at this point, I would tend to agree with you that I would rather have him kick the bucket and take our chances with his replacement. My point is that it's not a slam dunk that we're going to end up with a modern day Mikhail Gorbachev as his replacement.

I am not a student of Russian history, but I know enough about Russia to know that a Russian dictator is one of the scariest and most evil people on the planet. They are not Kim Jong Un or a Chinese dictator. The Kim family is pretty evil and raised to be so, but they also know they don't have the power to do much but some violent act and then they are all done. The Chinese are very organized and like an orderly, controlled society, but are not suicidal.

But Russian leadership treats their people like animals. It is no accident the origin of the word slave is based on Slav, as in the Slavic people in Russia. https://www.etymonline.com/word/slave

I know Americans don't have much of an idea of this, but let's just say if Americans of West African descent who came over on the slave ships and Slavic people were to exchange stories of historical suffering, the Americans of African descent would start feeling bad for the Slavic peoples. They have been treated like literal garbage prior to Communism. You ever think about why they considered Communism and leaders like Stalin a step up from what they had before?

We've all heard the classic tales of military units in Russia being forced to fight or being shot by their officers.

I've talked to a Romanian before the fall of the U.S.S.R. He lived like garbage. He had one set of clothes washed once a week. If he didn't fulfill his compulsory military duty in Russia, he would have been jailed or killed. He said he hated it.

So if Putin is sick with cancer, still holding power because he has men who will do violence on his behalf to hold power, and Putin is going to die and doesn't care, that is quite scary. Joseph Stalin killed an estimated 9 million Russians during his regime and was not overthrown because of his absolute willingness to use extreme violence on his own people to keep them in line. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin#:~:text=Snyder%20stated%20that%20Stalin%20deliberately,authorities%20are%20unreliable%20and%20incomplete.

So a dying, nothing to lose Russian dictator who wants to cement Russia's legacy as a powerful military and world power with nuclear weapons is a dangerous human. If Ukraine resists Russia and Putin is embarrassed, we'll either see a much more violent assault on Ukraine with higher casualties and maybe a nuclear attack.

As far as this idea that someone will take Putin out, I doubt it. Russian dictators surround themselves with violent people that will kill for them who have absolutely loyalty. It's why I knew Riverdog was wrong about Putin not attacking Ukraine. Russians don't saber rattle. They do what they say they're going to do and they don't care who it affects including the Russian people. Love of the Russian people doesn't often enter Russian's leaderships mind. Just ideas of power, prestige, and causing the world to fear them. It is no accident Vlad the Impaler came from that region. And Russian criminal organizations make the Mexican Cartels look kind.

If Putin is really sick and dying, that is damn scary to me. I'm not going to run and hide because I'll be out trying to help people if this thing goes wrong. But man, Putin's last act as Russian strongman because he is dying makes this situation more wide open than I expected. He probably doesn't care about holding power any longer, he just wants to have the world to know his power one last time before he dies. I hope he is not dying and still wants to hold power. Then he has no reason to go out with a bang.

[Aseahawkfan]

Ukraine is putting up a hell of a fight . Russia has suffered almost 4 k deaths now and has not completely secured a single major objective . I’ve seen footage of an entire tank column in total ruin with smoldering Russian bodies . Ukraine has shot down a massive troop transport plane full of hundreds of Russian soldiers . Beyond that Ukraine recently conducted a strike on a Russian base .

So they are no longer simply being in defense mode . Zelenski and the former president have been videotaped in public exhorting their citizens to fight . Zekenski has refused an offer from the US to evacuate he and his family . Putin has reportedly issued a directive to mobilize every available medical resource for a major medical emergency . Who knows what that means .I don’t know if it’s WWIII but it’s fascinating to watch it unfold .

If the United States were invaded or attacked, I would never leave. I would die with my people if needed and fight until we win.

[Stream Hawk]

https://t.co/GnSPx5nmk2
Here’s a pretty good article from Ukrainian perspective. I am very impressed with this country. Call me a bandwagoner, but Zelensky is kind of a bad ass!

[Aseahawkfan]

https://t.co/GnSPx5nmk2
Here’s a pretty good article from Ukrainian perspective. I am very impressed with this country. Call me a bandwagoner, but Zelensky is kind of a bad ass!

I hope the Ukrainians win. I hope Putin accepts his embarrassment instead of ramping up the violence or something insane like saying, "If Russia will not have Ukraine, no one will" as he nukes Ukraine. Sadly, I believe Putin using nukes on Ukraine if he is losing is a very real possibility. He will pull back Russian forces maybe, then nuke Ukraine. I hope it doesn't come to that.

[RiverDog]

https://t.co/GnSPx5nmk2
Here’s a pretty good article from Ukrainian perspective. I am very impressed with this country. Call me a bandwagoner, but Zelensky is kind of a bad ass!

That was a good read. Thanks for sharing it.

IMO Russia is likely to be biting off more than they can chew. Sure, they'll eventually be able to topple the Ukrainian government and install one of their own, but none of the citizens are going to respect it. They're going to be fighting a guerilla war for years, much like they did in Afghanistan, and we did in Vietnam, and of course, we'll have our CIA operatives in the country helping the rebels. I can't imagine this turning out well for Russia.