Quarterback Play

[RiverDog]

I was looking at the latest power rankings from NFL.com and came across this little gem. It's ironic as I mentioned this very same thing in the Hawks-Carolina game thread:

Quarterback play dominates the NFL landscape.

Or bloated quarterback play, we should say. The numbers this current crop of passers are putting up stretch all manner of conventional wisdom, sabermetrics or the imagination of the 1930s-era league braintrust. If only Benny Friedman, Arnie Herber or Sammy Baugh -- the game's early throwers -- were alive to see the open windows the guys under center are seeing today. It's borderline ridiculous.

Consider:

A) The top six teams below all feature an elite quarterback.

B) Drew Brees threw four touchdown passes on Thanksgiving night and it was actually an off game for him, considering that day's passer rating (111.9) vs. his season mark (127.3 -- which, by the way, will be a single-season record if it stands).

C) The league average passer rating is 94.7. Steve Young led the NFL with a 97.2 rating in 1996.

D) Not even 20 years ago, a great TD-to-INT ratio was considered to be 2:1. Aaron Rodgers is cruising along at 20:1. Brees? 14.5:1. (And that was with a pick the other night that should've been DPI.) Russell Wilson is sporting a 5:1 figure. Jared Goff is at 4.3:1. Ditto Philip Rivers. Patrick Mahomes is at 3.7:1. To put this all in perspective, Dan Marino retired having thrown approximately 1.7 touchdowns to every pick. Think about that. Dan freaking Marino.

E) Philip Rivers went 28 for 29 throwing the ball around the yard Sunday. Marcus Mariota went 22 for 23 on Monday. What more needs to be said?

The sport has completely morphed over the last decade, with increased emphasis on penalizing illegal contact, high-tech gloves for receivers and player-safety rules making the offensive game completely incongruent with days past. It makes comparing players from different eras impossible, unlike in the MLB or NBA. And for the purposes of the exercise below, teams can't contend without a premier player at quarterback -- unless they have instant offense on defense (SEE: Bears). While this notion has been sold before, it's true now more than ever before. Even more than last year.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... elers-fall

By the way, this power ranking has us at #10.

[NorthHawk]

I hope they can put some changes in to benefit the Defense.
Neutering it like they seem to be trying to do will turn a lot of fans off.

[obiken]

I hope they can put some changes in to benefit the Defense.
Neutering it like they seem to be trying to do will turn a lot of fans off.

There has to a middle ground between Jack Tatum and Cupcake, we have become Cupcake.

[RiverDog]

I hope they can put some changes in to benefit the Defense.
Neutering it like they seem to be trying to do will turn a lot of fans off.

Perhaps banning certain types of gloves for eligible receivers. I remember Kenny Easley saying that if Largent wore those gloves, he'd be catching passes with one finger. Anyone besides me remember Fred Biletnikoff and the stick'em that is now banned? I don't see the difference between it and the super tacky gloves.

[idhawkman]

Today's football is unlike most of us on this forum have ever played. Used to be that you expected to get leveled once or twice a game and you expected to level someone at least that often, too. I see receivers with back pads that make the breakup a catch hit in the back almost obsolete. The DPI called on Flowers in the game sunday was a travesty to the game that I know and loved playing as a DB, same for Griffin's in the end zone.

That all said, the stickum that Fred used made the ball unplayable after he made a catch whereas the gloves of today don't leave any residue on the ball. I think that is the big difference between those two in your example. I can live with the new gloves but quit the bogus dpi calls, let them play. In today's NFL, the only reason for an incompletion is a throw away by the QB or an errant throw by the QB. It literally has little to do with the defensive player as far as the catch is concerned. I guess all they want the defensive player to do is tackle the receiver "AFTER" they have made the catch.

[RiverDog]

Today's football is unlike most of us on this forum have ever played. Used to be that you expected to get leveled once or twice a game and you expected to level someone at least that often, too. I see receivers with back pads that make the breakup a catch hit in the back almost obsolete. The DPI called on Flowers in the game sunday was a travesty to the game that I know and loved playing as a DB, same for Griffin's in the end zone.

That all said, the stickum that Fred used made the ball unplayable after he made a catch whereas the gloves of today don't leave any residue on the ball. I think that is the big difference between those two in your example. I can live with the new gloves but quit the bogus dpi calls, let them play. In today's NFL, the only reason for an incompletion is a throw away by the QB or an errant throw by the QB. It literally has little to do with the defensive player as far as the catch is concerned. I guess all they want the defensive player to do is tackle the receiver "AFTER" they have made the catch.

The game is WAY, WAY, different from the football I grew up playing. My old coach wouldn't recognize today's game.

Good point about the stick'em corrupting the ball.

Agreed about DPI. Nearly all of the recent rule changes have favored the offense. Even those that were supposed to be anti offense, like the battering ram rule, are seldom enforced. I'd like to see them loosen up on DPI, perhaps even letting them to go back to the bump-and-run. As the article points out, it makes comparing players, specifically quarterbacks and receivers, from different eras, nearly impossible. QB/receiver stats and records don't mean chit anymore. It's time for the pendelum to swing back towards the defense.

[NorthHawk]

Ratings seem to be up lately.
Whether it's because of more scoring, I don't know, but I doubt they would
tinker with the product if the trend line continues.

[HumanCockroach]

Eh, the NFL has been systematically dismantling defense for two decades plus.

[NorthHawk]

Eh, the NFL has been systematically dismantling defense for two decades plus.

But only recently has scoring significantly increased and QB play overall improved a lot, too.

[Oly]

I can live with the new gloves but quit the bogus dpi calls, let them play.

Agreed about DPI. Nearly all of the recent rule changes have favored the offense. Even those that were supposed to be anti offense, like the battering ram rule, are seldom enforced. I'd like to see them loosen up on DPI, perhaps even letting them to go back to the bump-and-run. As the article points out, it makes comparing players, specifically quarterbacks and receivers, from different eras, nearly impossible. QB/receiver stats and records don't mean chit anymore. It's time for the pendelum to swing back towards the defense.

This. Many of the safety-related changes about defenseless receivers aren't going away, so we need to find a way to bring back balance through safe means. Allowing more hand-fighting and physical play by the DBs would be perfect. Receivers are less likely to be at full-steam going across the middle, and I'd think a DB is less likely to try to de-cleat a crossing receiver if his teammate is inches away. I would imagine it would also increase INTs, an exciting play, because the DB would generally be closer to the WR. I think it's much more entertaining to watch a WR get open by skill and good use of his body and hands to create space than to just watch them run into open spaces untouched. Relaxing the DPI rules adds to the matchup chess matches that make football so fun to watch.

[RiverDog]

Many of the safety-related changes about defenseless receivers aren't going away, so we need to find a way to bring back balance through safe means. Allowing more hand-fighting and physical play by the DBs would be perfect. Receivers are less likely to be at full-steam going across the middle, and I'd think a DB is less likely to try to de-cleat a crossing receiver if his teammate is inches away. I would imagine it would also increase INTs, an exciting play, because the DB would generally be closer to the WR. I think it's much more entertaining to watch a WR get open by skill and good use of his body and hands to create space than to just watch them run into open spaces untouched. Relaxing the DPI rules adds to the matchup chess matches that make football so fun to watch.

They need to revisit roughing the passer. Incidental contact, even if it's in the head and neck area, isn't necssarily going to create a safety issue. Same thing about tackling a QB with the weight of their body. It's not the same as those rules that are designed to prevent head and spinal injuries.

The other thing about re-instating bump-and-run coverage is that it could result in more longer completions. If the DB isn't careful and the receiver breaks free or is able to elude the contact, they can get behind the coverage.

Additionally, I don't think anyone is going to object to the prospect of fewer penalties.

[Oly]

They need to revisit roughing the passer. Incidental contact, even if it's in the head and neck area, isn't necssarily going to create a safety issue. Same thing about tackling a QB with the weight of their body. It's not the same as those rules that are designed to prevent head and spinal injuries.

The other thing about re-instating bump-and-run coverage is that it could result in more longer completions. If the DB isn't careful and the receiver breaks free or is able to elude the contact, they can get behind the coverage.

Additionally, I don't think anyone is going to object to the prospect of fewer penalties.

Agreed all around, but I highly doubt that they revisit roughing the passer. They should because many of these flags aren't safety issues as you note, but with the concussion worries--or at least their desire to appear as if they're worried about concussions--I don't see them changing those rules. But I'd love to be wrong.

[Hawktawk]

If they want to protect the QB they should make offensive holding a 5 yard penalty. I've always thought it is ridiculous that defensive holding is 5 yards and offensive holding is 10 yards anyway, particularly when it is true it can be called every play. If you're going to flag defenders for exhaling on the QB maybe give the offensive lineman a little more latitude to protect him from a free runner in the first place without it being an automatic drive killer.


But the bottom line is the game has become a pinball machine due to rules changes and quite frankly the talent level at the QB and receiver /TE/ back position.Some of the young wizard play callers are driving the trend , McVeigh, Nagy, Shanahan with Atl a couple years ago,Andy Reid No young wizard but a wizard nonetheless but the torch didnt light up till Smith went bye bye and Showtime Mahomes got behind center.

Rivers is a HOF type guy as I've always said, Probably lacks only an appearance in the big game at this point or a few more years at a high level but he pointed out how many great catches were a part of his big day and the film bears it out. Maybe its the gloves or protecting the receiver or whatever but there are just a lot of great catches being made in this league.

In GB McCarthy is said to be ruining Rodgers who is only completing 61.8 % of his passes this season and whose play has dropped off dramatically in general this season. Bortles had turned the corner last year, got a new deal and dropped 7 in a row after a 2-0 start and is now riding the pine after passing for under 200 yards 6 of the last 7 games

If it was just rules and schemes everyone could do it and nobody could stop it, neither of which is the case.....

It makes the accomplishments of the LOB that much more impressive over that 4 year stretch, also points out what a troglodyte our current offensive scheme is.I don't care Just win baby!!!!!

[RiverDog]

If they want to protect the QB they should make offensive holding a 5 yard penalty. I've always thought it is ridiculous that defensive holding is 5 yards and offensive holding is 10 yards anyway, particularly when it is true it can be called every play. If you're going to flag defenders for exhaling on the QB maybe give the offensive lineman a little more latitude to protect him from a free runner in the first place without it being an automatic drive killer.

Good thought, and I agree. Same with illegal blocks. IMO the only 15 yarders should be personal fouls or unsportsmanlike conduct and spot fouls. Another thought is defensive PI. Colleges penalize no more than 15 yards from the LOS rather than spot of the foul.

Maybe its the gloves or protecting the receiver or whatever but there are just a lot of great catches being made in this league.

The gloves obviously have made a huge difference. I've never seen so many one handed catches as I've seen in the past 5 years, and I refuse to accept it's just a matter of today's receivers being more athletic.

In GB McCarthy is said to be ruining Rodgers who is only completing 61.8 % of his passes this season and whose play has dropped off dramatically in general this season. Bortles had turned the corner last year, got a new deal and dropped 7 in a row after a 2-0 start and is now riding the pine after passing for under 200 yards 6 of the last 7 games

I know several Packer fans that are really torqued about McCarthy as I heard from a few of them following our TNF game with them. He's definitely on the hot seat. The entire Jacksonville franchise has mailed it in. Marrone has lost that team.

If it was just rules and schemes everyone could do it and nobody could stop it, neither of which is the case.....

It makes the accomplishments of the LOB that much more impressive over that 4 year stretch, also points out what a troglodyte our current offensive scheme is.I don't care Just win baby!!!!!

IMO the rule changes have made a huge difference. The game has been trending towards the offense for decades, but the past few years have been insane, at least as far as quarterback performances go. But I get the sense that the league is happy with the current star system, that it's essential for them to attract the casual fan, ie international fans, that aren't near as traditional as some of us in this forum are.

[idhawkman]

Ratings seem to be up lately.
Whether it's because of more scoring, I don't know, but I doubt they would
tinker with the product if the trend line continues.

Naw, there's very few players still kneeling and even more important, the media isn't trying to make a political statement anymore by broadcasting it to the fans.

I think there's the two goofs in Miami, maybe Beast and Bennett and that's about it. None of those teams make the prime time even though the Eagles won the SB last year.

[idhawkman]

I think what most people overlook with the overall improvement of QB play is how the rules have effected them. I think they can keep their concentration much longer because they aren't worried that someone is going to take out their knee, or konk them on the head or squish them in a body slam. They have to lay down pillows before hitting the QB. Back in the 70's, when I'd blitz from the DB position my coach told me to put the QB on the ground as violently as possible whether he had the ball or not. I would guarantee the QB looking for me every play after that when they dropped back whether I was blitzing or not.

[RiverDog]

I think what most people overlook with the overall improvement of QB play is how the rules have effected them. I think they can keep their concentration much longer because they aren't worried that someone is going to take out their knee, or konk them on the head or squish them in a body slam. They have to lay down pillows before hitting the QB. Back in the 70's, when I'd blitz from the DB position my coach told me to put the QB on the ground as violently as possible whether he had the ball or not. I would guarantee the QB looking for me every play after that when they dropped back whether I was blitzing or not.

IMO it's not getting overlooked in this thread. You're exactly right, the way we'be been pampering the quarterback most definetly has affected their performance. It's like telling a pitcher that he can't brush back a hitter with some chin music.

[Hawktawk]

I think what most people overlook with the overall improvement of QB play is how the rules have effected them. I think they can keep their concentration much longer because they aren't worried that someone is going to take out their knee, or konk them on the head or squish them in a body slam. They have to lay down pillows before hitting the QB. Back in the 70's, when I'd blitz from the DB position my coach told me to put the QB on the ground as violently as possible whether he had the ball or not. I would guarantee the QB looking for me every play after that when they dropped back whether I was blitzing or not.

I hear ya ID, that was then and this is now.Good lord kenny easley would have been fined and ejected from every game he ever played in today.

When i was in high school as a sophomore i played on a state championship team from coulee city. We ran into the @1 ranked Colton Wildcats at Lions field in Moses Lake in the semis. They ran primarily the wishbone and scored about 70 a game. They took an early lead and were moving the ball at will on our huge but slower defenders.

Our d coordinator called everyone over to the sidelines and said " look, I don't care what the QB does, whether he keeps it, pitches it or hands it off to the fullback or throws it want him smashed every play" That was it for Colton as the Rams cruised to a 40-20 win as their QB melted and started trying to get rid of the ball as soon as possible. Under todays rules we would have had no chance in the game. Its been pussified.

[idhawkman]

I hear ya ID, that was then and this is now.Good lord kenny easley would have been fined and ejected from every game he ever played in today.

When i was in high school as a sophomore i played on a state championship team from coulee city. We ran into the @1 ranked Colton Wildcats at Lions field in Moses Lake in the semis. They ran primarily the wishbone and scored about 70 a game. They took an early lead and were moving the ball at will on our huge but slower defenders.

Our d coordinator called everyone over to the sidelines and said " look, I don't care what the QB does, whether he keeps it, pitches it or hands it off to the fullback or throws it want him smashed every play" That was it for Colton as the Rams cruised to a 40-20 win as their QB melted and started trying to get rid of the ball as soon as possible. Under todays rules we would have had no chance in the game. Its been pussified.

I enjoyed reading that story. Reminds me of a few games I played in, too.

[HumanCockroach]

I think what most people overlook with the overall improvement of QB play is how the rules have effected them. I think they can keep their concentration much longer because they aren't worried that someone is going to take out their knee, or konk them on the head or squish them in a body slam. They have to lay down pillows before hitting the QB. Back in the 70's, when I'd blitz from the DB position my coach told me to put the QB on the ground as violently as possible whether he had the ball or not. I would guarantee the QB looking for me every play after that when they dropped back whether I was blitzing or not.

I'm not sure they over look it, imho it simply becomes status quo, and as such, most are numb to it.

[HumanCockroach]

But only recently has scoring significantly increased and QB play overall improved a lot, too.

NorthHawk

Top

Nah, scoring been increasing just as systematically as the dismantling of the defense..... its been a consistent trend, with a huge spike as "protection for players" rules get added every year.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah well what happened to Brees. Who dey? Its still possible to shut down a great offense, just harder.

[idhawkman]

You shut down Brees the same way you shut down RW (or any QB for that matter). You get pressure up the middle. That's why Aaron Donald and Suh are so valued. That's where you need the pressure and that makes your secondary better since the QB is trying to unload the ball quicker, etc.

[Hawktawk]

You shut down Brees the same way you shut down RW (or any QB for that matter). You get pressure up the middle. That's why Aaron Donald and Suh are so valued. That's where you need the pressure and that makes your secondary better since the QB is trying to unload the ball quicker, etc.

I agree it all starts with pressure. We agree on a lot when we stay off politics

[RiverDog]

Yeah well what happened to Brees. Who dey? Its still possible to shut down a great offense, just harder.

Yea, I don't think anyone saw that one coming, but in retrospect, it was bound to happen at some point. Not too many teams "Brees" through their schedule like the Saints were. They all have their clunker, just like we did on the road to our Lombardi. Their fans should take comfort in that it happened last night vs sometime in January.

The real story, though, is the Cowboys. They are a different team than they were a month ago.

[idhawkman]

I agree it all starts with pressure. We agree on a lot when we stay off politics

...and that's what so great about sports. It can bring together people of all backgrounds, thoughts, etc.

[idhawkman]

They are a different team than they were a month ago.

All teams are at this point of the year given injuries, skill building, chemistry, etc.

[Hawktawk]

...and that's what so great about sports. It can bring together people of all backgrounds, thoughts, etc.

That's what i hated about the kneeling too, something else I know we agree about. Sports is supposed to be about people of all political parties, faiths, sexual orientations etc coming together to root for a common cause and escape all the BS going on everywhere else.

[RiverDog]

They are a different team than they were a month ago.

All teams are at this point of the year given injuries, skill building, chemistry, etc.

Of course all teams change throughout a 16 game season, but some change more than others. My point was that the Cowboys are a dramatically different team.

I had said that I'd rather face them than any of the other 3 division winners in the playoffs, but after last night, I'm not so sure.