PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

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PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:34 am

I haven't done this for a while as there didn't seem to be a lot of interest in these rankings, but since I'm bored, I'll send out a for-what-it's-worth discussion topic on our guys PFF rankings and their relative position within the league along with the leader at each position.

The number in parathesis following the position is the number of players that met the minimum snap requirements to receive a ranking. This is significant as it puts the ranking in perspective. For example, Julian Love's #7 ranking, or top 8% of 90 ranked safeties, is far more impressive than Geno Smith's #9 ranking, or top 23%, of 39 ranked quarterbacks.

QB (39) Geno Smith T-#9. Top Ranked: Lamar Jackson, Ravens.

WR (117) Jaxon-Smith Njibia # 20, DK Metcalf #32, Tyler Locket #52, Jake Bobo #114. Top Ranked: Nico Collins, Texans.

RB (60) Kenneth Walker #5, Zach Charbonnet #34. Top Ranked: Derrick Henry, Ravens.

TE (77) Noah Fant, #39, AJ Barner T-#45, Pharoah Brown, #68. Top Ranked: George Kittle, Niners.

Center (39) Top Ranked: Conner Williams #17. Creed Humphrey, Chiefs.

OG (73) Laken Tomlinson, #42, Anthony Bradford #70. Top Ranked: Chris Lindstrom, Falcons.

OT (76) Charles Cross, #11. Stone Forsythe, #73. Top Ranked: Jordan Mailata, Eagles.

CB (113) Devon Witherspoon, T-#24. Tre Brown, #99. Josh Jobe, #110. Top Ranked: Pat Surtain, Broncos.

Safety (90) Julian Love, #7. Coby Bryant, T-#17. Rayshawn Jenkins, #78. Top Ranked: Kerby Joseph, Lions.

LB (83) Tyrice Knight, #31. Ernest Jones, #41. Top Ranked: Zach Baun, Eagles.

DT (131) Leonard Williams, #4. Jarran Reed, #35. Byron Murphy, #64. Roy Robinson-Harris, #81. Jonathan Hankins, #130. Top Ranked: Cameron Heywood, Steelers.

Edge (114): Boye Mafe, T-#30. Derrick Hall, T-#60. Dre Mont Jones, #101. Top Ranked: Adian Hutchinson, Lions.

Random notes: Russell Wilson is ranked #13 amongst QB's. If Olu Oluwatimi had met the minimum snap requirement, his grade would earn him a #17 ranking amongst centers. At guard, Christan Haynes received a 50.1 ranking, which would put him just ahead of Anthony Bradford at #70, and Sataoa Lauema received a 29.3 grade, one of the worst I've seen at any position.

At tackle, Abe Lucas received a 62.4 grade and George Fant received a 61.3 grade. Abe would rank #56, Fant #58.

I'd appreciate some response if you guys think this is worth my efforts.
Last edited by River Dog on Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:53 am

I read every one. I do take them with a grain though, for instance didn't Sataoa start? And even play every snap?
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:55 am

c_hawkbob wrote:I read every one. I do take them with a grain though, for instance didn't Sataoa start? And even play every snap?


Thanks for the feedback.

These are rankings as of Week 13 for the entire season, not just one game. Sataoa's 50 snaps or so doesn't meet the minimum snap count for the 13 week ranking. That's why you see guys like Conner Williams and Adian Hutchinson listed in the rankings even though they haven't played for several weeks. I should have made that a little clearer in the thread title.

FYI I've been editing the OP to include a little more info, such as Sataoa's grade. I shouldn't have posted it so soon as I keep finding interesting info as I navigate through the site.
Last edited by River Dog on Tue Dec 03, 2024 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue Dec 03, 2024 8:05 am

Understood. It'd be nice if they gave a "for this game" grade, but we work with what we have. That does help explain the 29.3 grade though, he may have put up some pretty poor spot performances earlier, because to earn a grade like that for a single game he'd have stood out like a smashed thumb, and that wasn't what I saw Sunday.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Tue Dec 03, 2024 8:09 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Understood. It'd be nice if they gave a "for this game" grade, but we work with what we have. That does help explain the 29.3 grade though, he may have put up some pretty poor spot performances earlier, because to earn a grade like that for a single game he'd have stood out like a smashed thumb, and that wasn't what I saw Sunday.


They grade every player on every play and give each player an overall grade for every game, but they only rank players that meet the season long minimum snap count. I'm still learning how to navigate through this site as there's a ton of information in it. If you have a question about a specific player, say so and I'd be happy to dig it up. I need to get my money's worth out of this subscription. :D
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Dec 03, 2024 9:05 am

I occasionally catch some shows and the people on them often say things like PFF graded player X at say 79 this last game. So I wonder if there is some way to drill down to see the individual weekly ratings.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 03, 2024 9:15 am

I definitely appreciate these. I read them every time you put them out, thanks!
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Tue Dec 03, 2024 9:24 am

NorthHawk wrote:I occasionally catch some shows and the people on them often say things like PFF graded player X at say 79 this last game. So I wonder if there is some way to drill down to see the individual weekly ratings.


I'm sure there is, but I haven't figured it out yet. I'll keep trying.
Last edited by River Dog on Tue Dec 03, 2024 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Tue Dec 03, 2024 9:26 am

mykc14 wrote:I definitely appreciate these. I read them every time you put them out, thanks!


Thanks, mykc. We really need a 'like' feature in this forum so a poster can see how many people have read his post. The last one I put out, I didn't get any replies, so I figured no one cared, and it does take quite a bit of time to compose. I'll start doing them on a weekly basis.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby Old but Slow » Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:28 am

Keep it up. It is appreciated.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:44 am

Here's some more interesting stuff from PFF, this time team rankings for our Hawks, cumulative through Week 13:

Offense: #12. Ravens are ranked #1.

Passing: #5. Bengals are ranked #1.

Pass Blocking: #23. Packers are ranked #1.

Pass Receiving: #8. Lions are ranked #1.

Running: #7. Ravens are ranked #1.

Run Blocking: #26. Niners are ranked #1.

Defense: #18. Eagles are ranked #1.

Run Defense: #23. Vikings are ranked #1.

Tackling: #14. Patriots are ranked #1.

Pass Rush: #22. Steelers are ranked #1.

Pass Coverage: #11. Eagles are ranked #1.

Special Teams: #18. Patriots are ranked #1.

All I can say is that in Week 12, we must have been ranked #1 on special teams in order to receive a #18 ranking in Week 13.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby Oly » Tue Dec 03, 2024 11:45 am

River Dog wrote:I haven't done this for a while as there didn't seem to be a lot of interest in these rankings, but since I'm bored, I'll send out a for-what-it's-worth discussion topic on our guys PFF rankings and their relative position within the league along with the leader at each position.

The number in parathesis following the position is the number of players that met the minimum snap requirements to receive a ranking. This is significant as it puts the ranking in perspective. For example, Julian Love's #7 ranking, or top 8% of 90 ranked safeties, is far more impressive than Geno Smith's #9 ranking, or top 23%, of 39 ranked quarterbacks.

QB (39) Geno Smith T-#9. Top Ranked: Lamar Jackson, Ravens.

WR (117) Jaxon-Smith Njibia # 20, DK Metcalf #32, Tyler Locket #52, Jake Bobo #114. Top Ranked: Nico Collins, Texans.

RB (60) Kenneth Walker #5, Zach Charbonnet #34. Top Ranked: Derrick Henry, Ravens.

TE (77) Noah Fant, #39, AJ Barner T-#45, Pharoah Brown, #68. Top Ranked: George Kittle, Niners.

Center (39) Top Ranked: Conner Williams #17. Creed Humphrey, Chiefs.

OG (73) Laken Tomlinson, #42, Anthony Bradford #70. Top Ranked: Chris Lindstrom, Falcons.

OT (76) Charles Cross, #11. Stone Forsythe, #73. Top Ranked: Jordan Mailata, Eagles.

CB (113) Devon Witherspoon, T-#24. Tre Brown, #99. Josh Jobe, #110. Top Ranked: Pat Surtain, Broncos.

Safety (90) Julian Love, #7. Coby Bryant, T-#17. Rayshawn Jenkins, #78. Top Ranked: Kerby Joseph, Lions.

LB (83) Tyrice Knight, #31. Ernest Jones, #41. Top Ranked: Zach Baun, Eagles.

DT (131) Leonard Williams, #4. Jarran Reed, #35. Byron Murphy, #64. Roy Robinson-Harris, #81. Jonathan Hankins, #130. Top Ranked: Cameron Heywood, Steelers.

Edge (114): Boye Mafe, T-#30. Derrick Hall, T-#60. Dre Mont Jones, #101. Top Ranked: Adian Hutchinson, Lions.

Random notes: Russell Wilson is ranked #13 amongst QB's. If Olu Oluwatimi had met the minimum snap requirement, his grade would earn him a #17 ranking amongst centers. At guard, Christan Haynes received a 50.1 ranking, which would put him just ahead of Anthony Bradford at #70, and Sataoa Lauema received a 29.3 grade, one of the worst I've seen at any position.

At tackle, Abe Lucas received a 62.4 grade and George Fant received a 61.3 grade. Abe would rank #56, Fant #58.

I'd appreciate some response if you guys think this is worth my efforts.



I do appreciate these, but don't comment enough. Some thoughts:
-They must do a good job accounting for OL play for Walker to be #5. He's #32 in yards with a 3.7 YPC average.
-Will we ever get a great TE?
-Those grades flatter our OGs, especially Tomlinson.
-There is no f-ing way there are 23 better CBs than Spoon. Add in the passion and leadership, and he's Top 10 for me.
-A bit disappointed that Murphy is as low as he is, but from what I've heard DT is one of the positions that takes longer to adjust to the NFL. What is Jalen Carter's rating, if I can ask. I know the league was gushing over him his rookie year (I am glad the Hawks didn't draft him) but I am wondering if I have crow to eat.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:39 pm

More PFF stuff. Here's the rankings within our own team. I've eliminated players with 5 or fewer games (Olu, for example, has played in just 5 games):

Offense

1. Kenneth Walker, RB 88.5
2. Charles Cross, OT 82.1
3. Geno Smith, QB 82.0
4. JSN, WR 79.9
5. DK Metcalf, WR 74.2
6. Tyler Lockett, WR 69.7
7. Zach Charbonnet, RB 68.3
8. Brady Russell, TE 66.2
9. Conner Williams, C 63.9
10. Noah Fant, TE 62.0
11. Laken Tomlinson, OG 61.9
12. AJ Barner, TE 59.5
13. Jake Bobo, WR 54.7
14. Laskiva Shenault, WR 54.5
15. Christian Haynes, OG 50.4
16. Anthony Bradford, OG 50.1
17. Pharoh Brown, TE 49.6
18. Stone Forsythe, OT 43.1

Defense

1. Leonard Williams, DT, 85.0
2. Julian Love, S, 80.8
3. Coby Bryant, S, 73.9
4. Boye Maffe, Edge, 72.0
5. Devon Witherspoon, CB, 71.9
6. Tariq Woolen, CB, 67.9
7. Tyrice Knight, LB, 67.5
8. Tyrell Dodson, LB, 65.8
9. Jarron Reed, DT, 65.2
10. Derrick Hall, Edge, 63.8
11. Byron Murphy, DT, 58.2
12. Roy Robinson-Harris, DT, 55.8
13. Rayshawn Jenkins, S, 53.8
14. Mike Morris, DT, 52.6
15. Dre Mont Jones, Edge, 52.4
16. Tre Brown, CB, 52.0
17. Josh Jobe, CB, 46.0
18. K'Von Wallace, S, 38.1
19. Jonathan Hankins, DT, 33.2

One thing is for sure: The grades for offensive guard sure meet the eye test.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:46 pm

Oly wrote:I do appreciate these, but don't comment enough. Some thoughts:
-They must do a good job accounting for OL play for Walker to be #5. He's #32 in yards with a 3.7 YPC average.
-Will we ever get a great TE?
-Those grades flatter our OGs, especially Tomlinson.
-There is no f-ing way there are 23 better CBs than Spoon. Add in the passion and leadership, and he's Top 10 for me.
-A bit disappointed that Murphy is as low as he is, but from what I've heard DT is one of the positions that takes longer to adjust to the NFL. What is Jalen Carter's rating, if I can ask. I know the league was gushing over him his rookie year (I am glad the Hawks didn't draft him) but I am wondering if I have crow to eat.


Thanks for the feedback, Oly. So long as you guys are reading them, I'll continue to pass along various information.

Witherspoon's #24 ranking isn't all that bad. Keep in mind that there are two cornerbacks on the starting 11, and there were 113 ranked players, so 24th puts him well within the top 25% at his position. If I recall, Spoon was ranked in the top 5 of all CB's last season. I don't think you'll have to eat very much crow over our decision to draft him vs. Jalen Carter.

If there's one thing that gives PFF some credibility, it's that our guards are so poorly rated. I hope John Schneider sees them.

Murphy's grade is a bit of a disappointment, but I wouldn't be too concerned. First of all, there is a certain degree of subjectivity to this grading, and it should not be taken as the Holy Grail. It's a qualified opinion. Secondly, like you said, it takes a while to get adjusted to NFL. Not every rookie steps in and makes the Pro Bowl in their first season.

With regard to Jalen Carter, he is ranked #11 overall amongst defensive tackles (PFF calls them interior defenders) with a 76.9 grade. His run defense is rather weak at 59.9, or 39th in the league, but his pass rushing grades out at 85.0, 4th best at his position.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Dec 03, 2024 4:16 pm

These things are not my cup of tea as I've already expressed. I only care about one team: Seattle. I can see their problems on the field and knowing the team.

I imagine these types of sites are useful to fantasy football and similar types of games. Not as much to the fan of a single team.

If it gives some people something fun to look at, why not?
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Tue Dec 03, 2024 5:51 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:These things are not my cup of tea as I've already expressed. I only care about one team: Seattle. I can see their problems on the field and knowing the team.

I imagine these types of sites are useful to fantasy football and similar types of games. Not as much to the fan of a single team.

If it gives some people something fun to look at, why not?


Fantasy football is all about yards and points scored. I don't see how these rankings could figure into start'em, sit'em decisions for FF, at least not the rankings and grades that I've posted as these rankings and grades incorporate things like blocking, broken tackles, and other intangible observations that can't be quantified with a number or stat. However, PFF does have a Fantasy Football section, but I've never used it.

With the exception of the top players at each position, the information I've posted in this thread is all about the Seahawks. Why wouldn't it interest a dedicated Seahawks fan like you to compare what you see on the field with what the rankings and grades show?

For what it's worth, I've found that the majority of these rankings and grades conform with what I see on the field, but there are exceptions. One is that I think that they have Geno Smith ranked too high, that he throws too many interceptions, particularly red zone interceptions. But the offensive line grades are right on the money. Our OL, particularly our guards, really suck. And I agree with Kenneth Walker's lofty ranking as a running back. Walker is a good example of how these rankings aren't much good for Fantasy Football. PFF has Walker as the 5th ranked running back, yet he's only the 19th ranked RB in fantasy points.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Dec 03, 2024 8:22 pm

River Dog wrote:Fantasy football is all about yards and points scored. I don't see how these rankings could figure into start'em, sit'em decisions for FF, at least not the rankings and grades that I've posted as these rankings and grades incorporate things like blocking, broken tackles, and other intangible observations that can't be quantified with a number or stat. However, PFF does have a Fantasy Football section, but I've never used it.

With the exception of the top players at each position, the information I've posted in this thread is all about the Seahawks. Why wouldn't it interest a dedicated Seahawks fan like you to compare what you see on the field with what the rankings and grades show?

For what it's worth, I've found that the majority of these rankings and grades conform with what I see on the field, but there are exceptions. One is that I think that they have Geno Smith ranked too high, that he throws too many interceptions, particularly red zone interceptions. But the offensive line grades are right on the money. Our OL, particularly our guards, really suck. And I agree with Kenneth Walker's lofty ranking as a running back. Walker is a good example of how these rankings aren't much good for Fantasy Football. PFF has Walker as the 5th ranked running back, yet he's only the 19th ranked RB in fantasy points.


Rankings have never much interested me. In football, teams win and lose. The only goal is the Super Bowl victory. You know who is good on your team by watching them.

I don't know where I would rank Walker. Sometimes he looks great and sometimes he doesn't do much. The O-line impacts some of it and maybe he's not hitting the hole right. Hard to know. We're definitely not as committed to the run as much as we used to be.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Wed Dec 04, 2024 5:06 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:Rankings have never much interested me. In football, teams win and lose. The only goal is the Super Bowl victory. You know who is good on your team by watching them.

I don't know where I would rank Walker. Sometimes he looks great and sometimes he doesn't do much. The O-line impacts some of it and maybe he's not hitting the hole right. Hard to know. We're definitely not as committed to the run as much as we used to be.


I don't know where I'd rank Walker, either. I don't watch every player on every play of every game like PFF does, so I don't know how Walker is doing relative to a back like Josh Jacobs (who is ranked #3 ahead of Walker). The specific ranking isn't that important to me. All I know is that Walker is playing way above the level of his blocking, that he makes more yards out of what many times looks like a complete disaster than any back I've seen. He's not a beast like Derrick Henry or Saquan Barkley, rather he's elusive and hard to get your arms around much like CMC. I call it meeting the eye test. Same goes with our interior offensive line. We keep getting stuffed in short yardage situations, and seeing the rankings of our guards helps explain why and corresponds with what I've seen.

I'm not trying to talk you into getting interested in the rankings and grades. All I'm saying is that for most of us Seahawk fans, we find them interesting and relevant to our favorite team, hence the positive responses from several of our fellow Hawk fans. I don't understand why you're being so dismissive of them.
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Re: PFF Player Rankings for Week 13

Postby River Dog » Wed Dec 04, 2024 6:37 am

Again, with too much time on my hands, I decided to check out how some of our former Seahawks now playing for other teams are performing, at least according to PFF.

Ethan Pocic, now playing center for the Browns, has a 62.3 pass blocking grade, a 61.3 run blocking grade for an overall offensive grade of 60.4, which places him 28th out of 39 ranked centers. Not very good.

Germain Ifedi, a tackle for the Browns, has a 42.7 pass blocking grade, a 55.0 run blocking grade, and a 45.9 overall grade. He hasn't seen enough snaps to get a position ranking, but it would place him at roughly the same spot as Stone Forsythe, ie at the very bottom.

Damien Lewis, now a guard for the Panthers, is doing much better. He has a 77.5 pass blocking grade, a 74.9 run blocking grade, and an overall 75.9 offensive grade, placing him 13th in the league amongst 73 ranked offensive guards. That's pretty damn good for a player we gave up on, especially when you consider our current offensive guards.

Cody Barton, now a linebacker for the Broncos, is having a good year, at least according to PFF. He has a run defense grade of 76.5, a pass rush grade of 64.9, a pass coverage grade of 59.5, and an overall defensive grade of 67.8, good enough for a #30 ranking amongst 83 ranked linebackers. He's definitely playing better for the Donkeys than he was with us.

I haven't watched very much of those guys, but PFF has, which is another reason why I think this information is useful and adds to our individual knowledge base. It may not be 100% accurate, but it does give us a general idea of how well a specific player is performing.
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